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Yay or nay? (1 Viewer)

T J

Footballguy
An opinion-seeking post.

I’m curious how many people would support an administration that had the exact same policies  (immigration, China, Iran, you name it - the exact same policies), and had the same results, good or bad, as this administration is having and has had, BUT it was done without the tweets, the name-calling, the corruption, the mannerisms, basically all the stuff Trump does that makes him so unbelievably unlikeable. 
 

Would you support that president or be opposed based on policy?

 

 
I fear we will find out soon enough. 

Within the next decade there is likely to be a US President with similar views to Trump, only serious and competent. I hate the idea. 

 
An opinion-seeking post.

I’m curious how many people would support an administration that had the exact same policies  (immigration, China, Iran, you name it - the exact same policies), and had the same results, good or bad, as this administration is having and has had, BUT it was done without the tweets, the name-calling, the corruption, the mannerisms, basically all the stuff Trump does that makes him so unbelievably unlikeable. 
 

Would you support that president or be opposed based on policy?

 
Support?  Yes. Vote for?  No.  I disagree with a lot of right wing ideology but believe in supporting the president regardless. 

 
I would be happy to support a Republican president who didn't behave like Trump, but my views lean left so I'm not sure they'd have my vote. I'd at least give it some consideration which I currently can't do with Trump.

 
I would object to this administration’s immigration policy, too much deregulation, trade policy, climate change and foreign policy in particular but would have a hard time voting for the Democratic candidate as I am going to do for 2020. I likely would write in or vote for another non Democrat candidate on the ballot. I guess that makes me a nay

 
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considering climate change and public education are my two main issues......yeah that's a nay.

 
Actually the opposite may be true. I think a lot of his support is cult of personality, without regard to actual policy 
I agree. If you took a normal politician -- say, Marco Rubio -- and made him adopt all of Trump's policies but with his own persona rather than Trump's, his approval ratings would be in maybe the low twenties.

 
Nay.  Republicans get control of both houses and the Presidency and it's suddenly "Deficit?  What Deficit?  Let's slash taxes and spend like drunken sailors even though the economy is doing fine!"

 
Nat...my opposition to the way things were handled in China were about the way it was handled...ditto with Iran and others.

The policies are a large part of the problem.

 
Actually the opposite may be true. I think a lot of his support is cult of personality, without regard to actual policy 
that's interesting.  its undoubtedly true for a certain % of his supporters, i.e. the ones that go to rallies.  

 
that's interesting.  its undoubtedly true for a certain % of his supporters, i.e. the ones that go to rallies.  
I don’t agree with this. I’ve thought a lot about it and I’m certainly not sure, you may be correct. But I sense that the supporters you’re referring to love Trump because he agrees with them on “the big stuff”- meaning immigration, nativism, a conservative Supreme Court, and most of all a rebellion against political correctness. So long as Trump supports their views in these areas they will support him no matter what he does, in spite of what he does, and they don’t care at all if he changes his mind on lesser issues: they’ll change right with him. 

But it’s not a cult. If Trump were to reverse himself on any of the big stuff, they’d abandon him. Trump himself knows this intuitively; it’s why he’s had to backtrack a few times on immigration for instance. 

 
I don’t agree with this. I’ve thought a lot about it and I’m certainly not sure, you may be correct. But I sense that the supporters you’re referring to love Trump because he agrees with them on “the big stuff”- meaning immigration, nativism, a conservative Supreme Court, and most of all a rebellion against political correctness. So long as Trump supports their views in these areas they will support him no matter what he does, in spite of what he does, and they don’t care at all if he changes his mind on lesser issues: they’ll change right with him. 

But it’s not a cult. If Trump were to reverse himself on any of the big stuff, they’d abandon him. Trump himself knows this intuitively; it’s why he’s had to backtrack a few times on immigration for instance. 
The only thing they’ll abandon him on is if he suddenly stopped making immigration from the South the boogeyman.  I’ve seen them defend every flip flop but when he talked about a way to amnesty for DACA kids they pounced.

 
The only thing they’ll abandon him on is if he suddenly stopped making immigration from the South the boogeyman.  I’ve seen them defend every flip flop but when he talked about a way to amnesty for DACA kids they pounced.
Yeah at some point we need to have a discussion about why this has become such an important issue for so many on the right. It’s part of their collective id at this point. 

 
I wouldn't support most of the policies of the current administration but I would have a lot more respect for the man.

I didn't care for the policies of GWB but I never doubted that he put the country over himself.   Not so much with Donald Trump.

 
I don’t agree with this. I’ve thought a lot about it and I’m certainly not sure, you may be correct. But I sense that the supporters you’re referring to love Trump because he agrees with them on “the big stuff”- meaning immigration, nativism, a conservative Supreme Court, and most of all a rebellion against political correctness. So long as Trump supports their views in these areas they will support him no matter what he does, in spite of what he does, and they don’t care at all if he changes his mind on lesser issues: they’ll change right with him. 

But it’s not a cult. If Trump were to reverse himself on any of the big stuff, they’d abandon him. Trump himself knows this intuitively; it’s why he’s had to backtrack a few times on immigration for instance. 
It’s the closest thing we’ve seen to a cult in a long time.

 
Nay. I believe you are trying to say acts more like Mitt or Bush. These guys are good guys, but they completely lay down to the Democrats and let the media pummel them all day. I can’t nor ever will again support a candidate like that.

 
Nay.  I had hoped they could at least infrastructure done and/or bring the deficit down - nah.  I don't like the USA being a Russian pawn.  Still waiting for that new, cheaper, way better, health care plan as insurance premiums continue to go up.  Setting us back a decade or two on climate issues pushes the problem off on our kids - Thanks Boomer.  Stacking the Courts with ultra-conservative and often unqualified judges will have a lasting impact.  I could go on but it's too depressing.  

 
nay 

the administration has absolutely gutted environmental standards down to 1950s levels.  Another 4 years and we will bring back the rivers on fire

as well he has taken corruption to a whole new level.  Lobbyists are in charge of everything and their is no oversite

 
I don’t agree with this. I’ve thought a lot about it and I’m certainly not sure, you may be correct. But I sense that the supporters you’re referring to love Trump because he agrees with them on “the big stuff”- meaning immigration, nativism, a conservative Supreme Court, and most of all a rebellion against political correctness. So long as Trump supports their views in these areas they will support him no matter what he does, in spite of what he does, and they don’t care at all if he changes his mind on lesser issues: they’ll change right with him. 

But it’s not a cult. If Trump were to reverse himself on any of the big stuff, they’d abandon him. Trump himself knows this intuitively; it’s why he’s had to backtrack a few times on immigration for instance. 
i think the opposite...it's a cult.  They love him because he sticks it to the liberals. 

 
James Daulton said:
Crippling de-regulations?  Tax cut for the rich?  War on immigrants (from the South only of course)?  Fake nationalism?  Isolating our long term allies?

Nope nope
Crippling de-regulation?  That is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.  

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I agree. If you took a normal politician -- say, Marco Rubio -- and made him adopt all of Trump's policies but with his own persona rather than Trump's, his approval ratings would be in maybe the low twenties.
Can you explain  why Trump's personality would make him so much more popular than Rubio?.  I don't agree with Rubio's policy but personality wise he's at best/worst meh. Trump has been a celebrity for ~40 and I disliked his act the entire time. 

 
Can you explain  why Trump's personality would make him so much more popular than Rubio?.  I don't agree with Rubio's policy but personality wise he's at best/worst meh. Trump has been a celebrity for ~40 and I disliked his act the entire time. 
Rubio is meh. Trump, to many people , is the smartest, strongest, bravest, hardest working, most honest person who's ever lived. And he has such large hands! Someone like Rubio will never be able to compete with that.

 
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Nay.

Also, I suspect that such a person would fail to win the Republican primary based on his disdain for military leaders, his disregard for the FBI, his dismissal of the intelligence community, his opposition to the Iraq War, his support of prison reform, and his anti-capitalist stance regarding tariffs.

 
Rubio is meh. Trump, to many people , is the smartest, strongest, bravest, hardest working, most honest person who's ever lived. And he has such large hands! Someone like Rubio will never be able to compete with that.
Don’t forget his voting record or lack thereof 

 
No b/c I lean liberal on policy while most of his policy has been far right.   Does anyone think Trump wouldn't cruise to re-election if he was just a halfway decent human being?   Its hard not to get re-elected with an economy like this.

 
A couple thoughts:

1. I said when Trump was first elected that, while I was very concerned about his right-wing agenda, his policies were third on my list of things that were freaking me out. The first two (I flip-flop on which goes first and which goes second) were 1) the hollowing out of our democracy and 2) getting into a huge crisis that he was too incompetent to handle. If you ask me today, No. 1 is still in the lead, but the Soleimani assassination was a reminder that No. 2 is always lurking as a possibility. All of which is to say if there were an administration that took 1 and 2 off the table but 3 was still out there, I would sleep much better at night, but no, I would not vote for them, because I still view No. 3 as a BFD.

2. I think we tend to fall into the "all else being equal" fallacy. Back in the '80s, the science writer Douglas Hofstadter wrote a piece on counterfactuals in which he pointed out that, at the time, some people were saying that if Jesse Jackson were white, he'd be elected president, while others were saying that, if he were white, he couldn't get elected dogcatcher. Hofstadter's point was that, when people suggest counterfactuals such as those, they're doing a "light mapping" in which they tweak one variable and use that to illustrate a point. So the pro-Jackson people were saying, "If there were a viable presidential candidate who didn't have to deal with racism, he could get elected." The anti-JJers were saying, 'If a white candidate acted as outrageously as Jackson did, he'd be finished."

I say all this not to crap all over the OP's premise but rather to point out that such counterfactuals are surprisingly complex, and all they really tell us is what other variables people consider most important. If you take them seriously and start to really dig into how they would play out, it soon becomes impossible to accurately analyze the situation. What would a Rubio Administration look like? How did he manage to get nominated by the type of GOP electorate that chose Trump? Is it really possible to isolate out the tweeting, name calling and corruption from who Trump is? Those questions aren't unanswerable per se, but any answer will necessarily reflect the worldview of the respondent more than a dispassionate analysis.

Of course, there are cases where it is possible to more easily isolate variables. Consider the counterfactual, "What if James Comey had never announced the reopening of the Hillary email investigation in Oct. 2016?" It's easy to imagine a world where that one thing doesn't happen, and so it's relatively easy to discuss the implications. (Nate Silver literally came up with a quantifiable measurement of the impact of Comey's announcement). Whereas a counterfactual that assumes a non-crazy version of Trump (or a white Jesse Jackson) requires us to fill in lots of other gaps, which in turn introduces lots more opportunities for our own biases to affect our answer. Think of it like the difference between the refs blowing a call in the first quarter of a game vs. missing the DPI against Robey-Coleman at the end of the NFCCG.

 
I agree. If you took a normal politician -- say, Marco Rubio -- and made him adopt all of Trump's policies but with his own persona rather than Trump's, his approval ratings would be in maybe the low twenties.
I have zero respect for Mario Rubio.  He was exposed as an empty suit in the last cycle.  I also think his tendency to capitulate would undermine any policy goals.

 

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