The Z Machine
Footballguy
What would we do with the knowledge of who has immunity from COVID19? Put them on the front lines in a healthcare situation? Or let them go free while others shelter in place?
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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
- Start date
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Understood, and thanks for your original post on the state of affairs in China and your follow up. I think my lack of reconciling the two posts was more with the 500,000 deaths estimate, considering there are roughly 3,500 deaths in China but they are able to start returning to a sense of normalcy. That part by all accounts seems to fit, with Apple re-opening all of their stores as one piece of corroborating evidence of that.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
French researcher posts successful Covid-19 drug trial
And guess what drug was used in this successful French trial which was concurred by a US study?
CHLOROQUINE
And guess what drug was used in this successful French trial which was concurred by a US study?
CHLOROQUINE
joffer
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Couldn't that be a function of low testing availability in the countries with high incidence of malaria? Also, since this disease seems to have a disproportionate effect on the elderly (70+), the demographics on those regions (which also correlate to economic status) tend to skew young, which could also show up as a correlation but not a causation.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
"So far, no country - nor the World Health Organisation (WHO) - has officially published treatment measures against Covid-19, but in China and South Korea, guidelines already outline the use of chloroquine as an “effective treatment”, the study report said."
The Z Machine
Footballguy
They got COVID19 and cleared the infection quickly, sometimes without symptoms. I don't think that's what you're advocating.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Fingers crossed. Seems to completely block pathway of infection in what I've read this week.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
And thankfully as I just found, it's produced in the US by at least one domestic drug company in New Jersey...
https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/new_info/2016/chloroquine_shortage.htm
https://www.drugs.com/manufacturer/rising-pharmaceuticals-inc-218.html
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
The data is limited, and methodologically flawed. Moreover, the drug isn't widely available in the US, and may not be available at all (haven't seen it used in years).
Studies are likely underway, but the process takes time, unfortunately.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
This is a fluid situation, so I reserve the right to amend this pending some sort of scene where Madison Square Garden becomes a hospital I'm giving the virus 30 days, 30 days to choke off our lives and businesses and if that doesn't do the trick, then let it rip because we're just kicking the can down the road and its time to rip the bandaid because this will run through us anyway.
This idea you're telling people over 70 to stay in the house for 4 months? Honest question, how many months do they have in their lives anyway, thats a lot to give up, give up what might be your last summer? College graduations getting canceled 2 months out? Enough.
This idea you're telling people over 70 to stay in the house for 4 months? Honest question, how many months do they have in their lives anyway, thats a lot to give up, give up what might be your last summer? College graduations getting canceled 2 months out? Enough.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
That's the natural assumption but as I've linked a few times, there is no shortage of either active studies or lack of success. I think there's a possibility we're a supply side solution away from a real breakthrough here. It apparently knocks the virus clear from the lungs. And perhaps most importantly there are doctors who are using it on CV19 already. Because of that we should know sooner rather than later.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
I’m a stupid person but what isn’t this being handed out like candy to every patient in the country?
facook
Footballguy
No offense snore, but I'm not buying China's "official" death numbers. No more than I would Iran's.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
To expound on a lot of the therapeutic issues we've mentioned, this podcast from the NEJM is good. It mentions issue with NSAIDS like ibuprofen, corticosteroids, ACE inhibitors/ARBs and chloroquine.
Summary: NSAID and steroid use is controversial, too early to advocate changes in BP meds and data is limited for chloroquine. We need clinical trials, fast.
Summary: NSAID and steroid use is controversial, too early to advocate changes in BP meds and data is limited for chloroquine. We need clinical trials, fast.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Casue the drug companies are working on a vaccine. They wouldnt like a drug that is 50 years old handed out and it actually cures the patient.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Our boy is getting snipped tomorrow. Poor guy. But they said same procedure. Stay in the car, they come out with a leash and take him in. Makes sense.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
This is where people go in different directions. I agree with much of what you are saying. I feel bad for the Seniors but watching 20% Unemployment, Bailouts for multiple verticals and then I hear people say "How can you think about money at a time like this?"
It's difficult and people are going to rush to be offended by some of this. I thought this was mostly for folks reporting facts or seeking information but it's starting to spiral into everyone wanting to get an opinion on how we should proceed.
I hate that the economy has been shut off. I also think it's going to get very real when people you know, I know, everyone in here will have a family member that will go a round or two with this, probably many in here have Seniors in their family that are higher risk, their feelings might be much different.
Cheers ST
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
I’d guess the FDA and others would need to see a year? of testing before giving it the OK
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Insoxicated
Have but they aren't decision makers.. they're pawns not kings in this game.
Capella
Footballguy
Well our big wet president or whomever is really in charge needs to tell them to get ####ed because this is wrecking the entire country. The drug companies can just raise the rates on all the anxiety meds everybody is going to need after this.
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Insoxicated
I would hope less since it's already proven safe. My guess is off label use requires a much shorter runway to viability, but @Terminalxylem and others can confirm.
Capella
Footballguy
on a 50 + year old drug. Yep that is standard operating procedure in the US.
https://www.hngn.com/articles/228138/20200223/coronavirus-cure-chloroquine-confirmed-effective.htm
caustic
Footballguy
My understanding is that if a drug is approved for one purpose (which chloroquine is), doctors are free to prescribe it for other purposes without going through FDA again.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Yeah this drug has been around for 50 years and FDA approved long ago. What's left to tackle is supply and when to pour everything into this. There are studies underway all over the world right now with active CV19 patients. If this drug keeps churning out 100% success rates, it will be unleashed soon.
Ya me neither. Just saying this is what the populace is maybe being told (small sample size of just my uncle).
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
We have two actuarial things to consider here.. and here's what I'd like to know... absent this virus, what is the typical death rate for people 70 plus? And by god I'm not rooting against them whatsoever, but you hear a number like 500K and your'e shocked. How many would or should that number be?
The second thing to consider is, if we preserve those lives, which I agree is very noble and if you make me make the choice, I choose them. But at a certain point, if we prolong this, you're going to have the very real offset of people who take their own lives because of this. They will be among the casualties in my book when all they worked for in terms of a business or a home or career goes under.
The people really in charge haven't brought the market down to the level they want yet.
You are right, this should be given to every patient immediately.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Maybe that's the big fda announcement for tomorrow.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
You lose a lot of time investing in worship and other religious activities. Those aren't all bad, but I'd rather spend it elsewhere. Like this board.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I get what your are saying, and I don't disagree (double negative sounds better than agreeing), but the key is when to start the 30-45 day counter. You don't want to start it too late obviously. But you don't want to start it too soon either or the curve doesn't flatten. The issue is that you have this huge (read: Yuge) spread out country where some cities are already bad (Seattle, NYC) but other areas have been barely touched. It's a difficult thing to time on a Federal scale. It may make sense to just try to do it locally in rolling periods. But boy, the coordination on that is tough. And you can't really just do it by state (I live in NC about a half mile from the border of SC). Maybe do waves starting with the big cities on the coast that are more likely to be infected sooner and then move inland until you finally get to the Midwest? But probably need to still get some "Midwest" cities that have big international airports, like Dallas and Chicago.
It's a tough call.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Was working through this with my sister via text today (absent the medical stuff). If there was a way to know who'd been infected AND recovered we could get them back into life ASAP and mitigate the economic damage without having the worst scenarios realized.
7 of the 9 people in our two households all got sick in a ~week span. End of Feb/early March. All have recovered now except for one person. We don't think it was CV, but we're super exposed to international travelers, two of us work with some connections to Japan, China, Korea, or the Middle East and the timing is interesting enough we'd like to know for sure.
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CurlyNight
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
@NYCTSunway
March 17, 2019: 5,568,464
March 17, 2020: 1,785,252
3.7 million of you chose not to ride with us yesterday because you want to #flattenthecurve.
March 17, 2019: 5,568,464
March 17, 2020: 1,785,252
3.7 million of you chose not to ride with us yesterday because you want to #flattenthecurve.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Hydroxychloroquine is used for lupus - that's readily available. I'm not sure the same is true for chloroquine. I've seen people assume both are effective, but your link only talks about chloroquine.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
One other factor to consider as to why not start handing this out everywhere. From what I can gather they are testing various combos of drugs and right now the 100% success rate is a combo is Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin. I'm no doctor but this helps explain why even with extraordinary results, things don't happen overnight. The good news is so many barriers were knocked down to even start trying these drugs on people who have CV19. Those steps already taken are the things which usually take years. Just need to keep building confidence and supply.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Could very well be true. And I think that isn't necessarily unwise for a brief period of time. Very soon though, it would be time to flip that on it's head if this drug(s) keeps working.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Yes, doctors can do whatever they want. But the drug manufacturer can't market it for the other uses.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
That's a great stat. Gives some idea of the level of pullback. 2/3rds or so looks like.
