What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (10 Viewers)

What would we do with the knowledge of who has immunity from COVID19?  Put them on the front lines in a healthcare situation?  Or let them go free while others shelter in place?
Let them do their jobs (including healthcare) and carry on with life.

And yeah, I understand there would be logistic hurdles (to put in mildly) in limiting social interaction for only a portion of the population. But it might be better than the alternative of shutting most everything down for weeks-months.

 
Hydroxychloroquine is used for lupus - that's readily available. I'm not sure the same is true for chloroquine. I've seen people assume both are effective, but your link only talks about chloroquine.
This one out of China talks about Hydroxychloroquine. It also mentions how the 100% success rate which is supported by the French is Hydroxychloroquine paired with Azithromycin. The fact that 2 approved drugs are being used in conjunction could be an issue for all I know. Maybe Azithromycin is hard to get. I'm just guessing at barriers to prevent this from being widely used overnight. But the amount of current use on active CV19 patients and the success rate is what gives me hope that day is not far.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0

 
We have two actuarial things to consider here.. and here's what I'd like to know... absent this virus, what is the typical death rate for people 70 plus?  And by god I'm not rooting against them whatsoever, but you hear a number like 500K and your'e shocked.  How many would or should that number be?  

The second thing to consider is, if we preserve those lives, which I agree is very noble and if you make me  make the choice, I choose them.  But at a certain point, if we prolong this, you're going to have the very real offset of people who take their own lives because of this.  They will be among the casualties in my book when all they worked for in terms of a business or a home or career goes under.
Interests rates at zero-Unprecedented 

20% of the country or more out of work in a matter of days and weeks with no real end game in sight yet-Unprecedented 

Checks being mailed to every American working and not working-Unprecedented 

Wait until the death count has a spike like some of these other places and we see funerals where no one can gather or attend or use a Church to mourn for everyone...I'm just saying that wile I agree with you, I also have a bleeding heart for those that are being directly impacted. All my wonderful waitresses and bartenders, the folks who help make my life easier everywhere I go, my cleaning lady told me today she has had 3 cancellations already, she's not getting that money back. 

 
Yeah this drug has been around for 50 years and FDA approved long ago. What's left to tackle is supply and when to pour everything into this. There are studies underway all over the world right now with active CV19 patients. If this drug keeps churning out 100% success rates, it will be unleashed soon.
Have 25g (6-8 "treatments" under the SK/CN treatment schedule) ordered :popcorn:  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The second thing to consider is, if we preserve those lives, which I agree is very noble and if you make me  make the choice, I choose them.  But at a certain point, if we prolong this, you're going to have the very real offset of people who take their own lives because of this.  They will be among the casualties in my book when all they worked for in terms of a business or a home or career goes under.
And the very real offset of tens of millions of people effectively losing their job and/or income.  With that comes the loss of something that most Americans have tied to their job - health insurance.  That will also lead to more deaths.  There are no good answers here.  

 
Hydroxychloroquine is used for lupus - that's readily available. I'm not sure the same is true for chloroquine. I've seen people assume both are effective, but your link only talks about chloroquine.
This is very interesting.  My wife has been on hydroxychloroquine for years.  We've obviously been worried because of that disease's impact on the immune system.

 
I don’t know if this has been mentioned but there is some evidence people with type “A” blood are more susceptible and those with type “O” are less susceptible. 

 
  • Smile
Reactions: JAA
Casue the drug companies are working on a vaccine. They wouldnt like a drug that is 50 years old handed out and it actually cures the patient.
I know Pharma has perpetuated a lot of evil, but I'd be shocked if their is any kind of conspiracy to suppress research into treatment options. Even cheap ones.

Vaccine development will push on regardless. Prevention is arguably more important than treatment.

 
I'm a long-time reader but very infrequent poster to these boards. Mostly use the Shark Pool in-season for FF news and such.

Anyway, I appreciate all the good info I've gleaned from this thread, thanks to all the productive contributors.

My deal: My wife (who virtually NEVER gets sick) is a H.S. English teacher and she started feeling bad last Wednesday. Stayed home from work Thursday and Friday (which she NEVER does) and while she was home the news hit that schools are closing as we shift to E-learning. She assumed she had the flu (she had a shot late fall) and started feeling better by Sunday. Symptoms were slight fever, headache, a bit of body aches, and runny nose. I also started feeling poorly a day after her, but not nearly as severely as she. Primary difference between us was I was feeling a bit weird in my lungs by Friday, but nothing too severe--shortness of breath is the best way to describe it. I was also feeling almost normal by Monday, and decided to get on my Peloton that afternoon but hit it a bit harder than I intended (Jess King will do that to me). Since Monday evening after my ride, my shortness of breath has steadily worsened and I was debating this morning whether I should go see the Dr. Decided not to thinking waiting rooms/physicians likely have their hands full right now. 

Fast forward to this evening, my wife gets a phone call from my daughter's dermatologist's office--my wife and daughter were there on March 5th and a person they interacted with has since tested positive for the virus. We quickly went to the e-check Covid website set up by our health network provider, and after filling out the questionnaire it told us to go to the acute care center straightaway (I'm sure the question asking if we've been in contact with a known-positive, and our 'yes' response, triggers those instructions). 

We quickly went to the closest place, but there was a sign on the door saying they were 'closed early' and not seeing anyone else today. A few employees from another office in the building (probably from the radiology center next door) came out as we were reading the sign and asked after us. One of them said we were better off just coming back first thing in the morning if we didn't think we were in 'immediate peril'. We certainly aren't, but when I told him I had shortness of breath he suggested hitting Walgreens on my way home and buying a pulse-ox finger reader just to give myself peace of mind. He said if Oxygen saturation is over 90, don't sweat it. I did just that and I'm reading 95, so I'm not immediately worried.

Anyway, just throwing this out there. I'm personally 90% sure we have this virus, though my wife maintains we 'probably don't'. Who knows? My personal opinion is MILLIONS of Americans have this or have had this already. Hopefully, symptoms stay minor for the vast majority of us. Be well.

ps- We're in the north suburbs of Chicago, and in our mid to late 40's.

 
This is very interesting.  My wife has been on hydroxychloroquine for years.  We've obviously been worried because of that disease's impact on the immune system.
Can this be purchased over the counter? Can I walk in to Walgreens or CVS and find this?

 
I’d guess the FDA and others would need to see a year? of testing before giving it the OK
No. Compassionate use could happen quickly, if the existing data is good. Since it isn't a new drug, it wouldn't need all the typical safety and pre-clinical trials. A good randomized control trial would likely take several months though.

Truthfully, drugs are used off-label for non-FDA indications all the time. I see no reason this can't be prescribed, if a physician is willing to accept the liability if it ends up causing harm. Obtaining it and getting insurers to pay for it are other issues.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is a fluid situation, so I reserve the right to amend this pending some sort of scene where Madison Square Garden becomes a hospital I'm giving the virus 30 days, 30 days to choke off our lives and businesses and if that doesn't do the trick, then let it rip because we're just kicking the can down the road and its time to rip the bandaid because this will run through us anyway.

This idea you're telling people over 70 to stay in the house for 4 months?  Honest question, how many months do they have in their lives anyway, thats a lot to give up, give up what might be your last summer?  College graduations getting canceled 2 months out?  Enough.  
Uhmm very possibly at least 100+ months?

This is not an ideal situation but no need to start digging graves for old folks.

My dad died at 68 of cancer. My mom was 67. 

She is now 83 and is a part of the lives of my 14 and 11 year old kids. Kids my father never got to see.

Its gonna be ok....not easy but ok. Let's keep fighting for the old folks and their lawns. They're worth it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well.... the first positive feelings of hope that I've felt in the past week have just been shot dead. Thanks. :kicksrock:
Keep hope. They're not saying the drug doesn't work, they're just not officially announcing it as the answer yet. HHS Secretary Alex Azar was apparently on FoxNews tonight saying they are looking into the drug and leaving no stone unturned. If the active studies on active patients keep churning out successes it's just a matter of time.

 
No. Compassionate use could happen quickly, if the existing data is good. Since it isn't a new drug, it wouldn't need all the typical safety and pre-clinical trials. A good randomized control trial would likely take several months though.

Truthfully, drugs are used off-label for non-FDA indications all the time. I see know reason this can't be prescribed, if a physician is willing to accept the liability if it end up causes harm. Obtaining it and getting insurers to pay for it are other issues.
Like Entresto and SGLT2s being prescribed for HFpEF even though they’re not indicated (Entresto is indicated for HFrEF). 

I see there are some adverse effects associated with choloroquine but none seem too serious. Downside to prescribing considering the severity of what we’re dealing with is what exactly? 

 
Isn't azithromycin just the z-pak you always get prescribed for flu? 
Not sure, wouldn't be surprised.

This all started because in China or South Korea (could've been both) they decided to basically try every known safe drug on CV19 patients to see what might work. And the winner was chloroquine and it's offspring hydroxychloroquine.

Obviously, things work a little differently here.

 
If icon is getting this, then it’s a thing. 

Did you need a prescription? 
Yep. I already tried to buy enough for my family but it's presription only.

200 mg tablets, twice a day for a week
Getting way too much of a Contagion/Forsythia vibe here people. Calm down a bit and let the professionals do their thing. 

 
Wife and I are driving back to the Bay Area from Palm Springs tomorrow and want to take advantage of possible spots on the way home to stock up on groceries/supplies? Anyone familiar with areas on this route that may be best to try? I think we’re going to maybe try stores in Fresno and Bakersfield. 
Costco member? 

If so I'd hit up the the Visalia or Hanford Costco, things are relatively calm and stocked around here. 

If not i'd still hit up stores in the Tulare/Visalia area. There was a rush to buy last Friday, which wasn't that huge compared to other stories I've read here, so shelves are mostly restocked. 

 
Yeah this drug has been around for 50 years and FDA approved long ago. What's left to tackle is supply and when to pour everything into this. There are studies underway all over the world right now with active CV19 patients. If this drug keeps churning out 100% success rates, it will be unleashed soon.
Not to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but no antiviral drug is 100% successful. But anything would be welcome at this point.

Was working through this with my sister via text today (absent the medical stuff).  If there was a way to know who'd been infected AND recovered we could get them back into life ASAP and mitigate the economic damage without having the worst scenarios realized.

7 of the 9 people in our two households all got sick in a ~week span. End of Feb/early March.  All have recovered now except for one person.  We don't think it was CV, but we're super exposed to international travelers, two of us work with some connections to Japan, China, Korea, or the Middle East and the timing is interesting enough we'd like to know for sure.
That was my thought exactly.

 
  • Thanks
Reactions: JAA
Uhmm very possibly at least 100+ months?

This is not an ideal situation but no need to start digging graves for old folks.

My dad died at 68 of cancer. My mom was 67. 

She is now 83 and is a part of the lives of my 14 and 11 year old kids. Kids my father never got to see.

Its gonna be ok....not easy but ok. Let's keep fighting for the old folks and their lawns. They're worth it.
I am, I'm willing, I took care of my father for the last 5 years of his life so I'm very sensitive to this population, I'm well aware they're worth it so I'm not speaking from a place of malice whatsoever.  But, the flip side of being aware of what this population needs is, the potential and possibility to get the most of your life and not prolong it to check boxes on a calendar like its an achievement.  How many grandparents won't see their kids graduate this year?  Won't see their kids play baseball?  I know this is potentially hokey and I don't have a crystal ball, if you could guarantee me X amount of time is going to save the lives of Y number of seniors, it would be something but absent that, I'm left to my own window of experience in elder care.  You have to ask what you're living for at a certain point.  I already personally know old folks detoriorating because they're not allowing visitors nursing homes.  This isolation is going to be a very real factor in quality of life

Godspeed to your mother, long may she run and I'm not looking to rush anyone anywhere, but these are sensible questions to ponder I think and moreover points i hear made by some active 70 year olds I know.   

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Getting way too much of a Contagion/Forsythia vibe here people. Calm down a bit and let the professionals do their thing. 
My thought was for $36, why the heck not. I wasn't going to start popping them. But it would have been a nice hail mary option to have on hand in the event of the unthinkable.

 
One other factor to consider as to why not start handing this out everywhere. From what I can gather they are testing various combos of drugs and right now the 100% success rate is a combo is Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin. I'm no doctor but this helps explain why even with extraordinary results, things don't happen overnight. The good news is so many barriers were knocked down to even start trying these drugs on people who have CV19. Those steps already taken are the things which usually take years. Just need to keep building confidence and supply.
If it is effective treatment, then it should be limited to use in that context - confirmed diagnoses. I doubt there is enough Plaquenil (hydroxcq) to provide it to every concerned American, and definitely not enough to cover all the world's citizens.

I don't favor Azithromycin blanket coverage. It's already overused, leading to resistance issues for other infections, plus there is data suggesting increased cardiovascular mortality in those treated with it long-term.

 
If it is effective treatment, then it should be limited to use in that context - confirmed diagnoses. I doubt there is enough Plaquenil (hydroxcq) to provide it to every concerned American, and definitely not enough to cover all the world's citizens.

I don't favor Azithromycin blanket coverage. It's already overused, leading to resistance issues for other infections, plus there is data suggesting increased cardiovascular mortality in those treated with it long-term.
All I can say is thank you for further demonstrating how this isn't worked out overnight.

 
This one out of China talks about Hydroxychloroquine. It also mentions how the 100% success rate which is supported by the French is Hydroxychloroquine paired with Azithromycin. The fact that 2 approved drugs are being used in conjunction could be an issue for all I know. Maybe Azithromycin is hard to get. I'm just guessing at barriers to prevent this from being widely used overnight. But the amount of current use on active CV19 patients and the success rate is what gives me hope that day is not far.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0
Azithromycin is the ingredient in Z-paks, so it is readily available. Absent convincing evidence it's better than HCQ alone, I've already detailed my issues with widespread use.

That Nature correspondence looks good, but still a long way from proving HCQ/CQ cure C-19. It will be interesting to see what clinical data surfaces.

 
Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromyacin???  Wow, this seems like an odd combination to do the job against COVID-19.  Malaria is cause by a protozoan infecting blood cells...Azithromyacin is an antibiotic which works against bacterial infections.  What is the mechanism by which this combo would take out a viral infection???

 
Azithromycin is the ingredient in Z-paks, so it is readily available. Absent convincing evidence it's better than HCQ alone, I've already detailed my issues with widespread use.

That Nature correspondence looks good, but still a long way from proving HCQ/CQ cure C-19. It will be interesting to see what clinical data surfaces.
Conceivably though it could reach the point that it's the recommended effective treatment for active cases. And that alone could be a huge step in eliminating the hysteria and it's many ill effects.

 
Isn't azithromycin just the z-pak you always get prescribed for flu? 
Yes, it is an antibiotic to treat bacterial infection. It has anti-inflammatory properties as well. 

It should never be prescribed for the flu (due to a virus), but it is widely overprescribed for sinusitis and upper respiratory tract infections.

 
I sure hope the FDA announcement tomorrow isn't a letdown.

HOPE:  announcement of an approved drug for recommended use on CV19 patients

LIKELY:  announcement of a new self-swab test for CV19

 
Last edited by a moderator:
All I can say is thank you for further demonstrating how this isn't worked out overnight.
Hopefully you aren't being sarcastic.

A reminder, the Hippocratic Oath includes a stipulation to avoid causing harm, first and foremost. Using a drug with little clinical data is dicey, no matter how benign it appears on the surface.

 
Hopefully you aren't being sarcastic.

A reminder, the Hippocratic Oath includes a stipulation to avoid causing harm, first and foremost. Using a drug with little clinical data is dicey, no matter how benign it appears on the surface.
Nope, not at all. I'm glad someone here has the knowledge to provide context and answers to the natural questions I and everyone would have about these hopeful reports.

 
Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromyacin???  Wow, this seems like an odd combination to do the job against COVID-19.  Malaria is cause by a protozoan infecting blood cells...Azithromyacin is an antibiotic which works against bacterial infections.  What is the mechanism by which this combo would take out a viral infection???
It's in the linked research. From what I gather, chloroquine increases lysosomal pH, and SARS-CoV-2 may require an acidic lysosome for maturation of virions.

Azithromycin also has anti-inflammatory properties. I can't recall the exact mechanism. But they may be including it in the cocktail to prevent/treat bacterial co-infection, though this doesn't appear to occur very commonly with C-19 (in contrast to flu).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Worldometer March 19 00:00 GMT Update (The day is reset after midnight GMT+0.)

  1. China: 80,894 (+13) confirmed, 3,237 (+11) deaths
  2. Italy: 35,713 (+4,207) confirmed, 2,978 (+475) deaths
  3. Iran: 17,361 (+1,192) confirmed, 1,135 (+147) deaths
  4. Spain: 14,769 (+2,943) confirmed, 638 (+105) deaths
  5. Germany: 12,327 (+2,960) confirmed, 28 (+2) deaths
  6. USA: 9,257 (+2,846) confirmed, 150 (+41) deaths
Already 9410 / 152 :(  

 
All I can say is that I sure hope the FDA announcement tomorrow isn't a letdown.

HOPE:  announcement of an approved drug for recommended use on CV19 patients

LIKELY:  announcement of a new self-swab test for CV19
That's what Trump was saying today, self tests would help lessen the load on healthcare folks. I think too that's the announcement because he said it's close.

 
That's what Trump was saying today, self tests would help lessen the load on healthcare folks. I think too that's the announcement because he said it's close.
Thanks

While I'd like it to be bigger than self tests, if it helps lessen the burden on healthcare workers, it's still a step in the right direction.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top