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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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2 hours ago, Koya said:

I am a libertarian, not politically affiliated.  Yeah there need be responsibility - and we as a nation and society must be responsible for creating a situation where:

  • We have an economy that doesnt provides a living wage for tens of millions. 
  • While I am not a fan of expanded welfare, a couple thoughts
    • Our nation engages in corporate welfare on any number of levels. From taxation (or lack thereof) to bailouts, to any number of other financial benefits for large corporations and key interests (fyi, you could consider organized labor an interest that in the end may help it's own members, but in many ways contributes to not lifting the national good. One example is how it is cost prohibitive to build transit in large part due to ridiculous and onerous labor provisions)
    • If we choose, as a nation, to not properly educate and provide the right skills, then WE have the responsibility to provide for folks who don't have the ability/skills to do it themselves.  We are failing on the education and skills training level. That's our collective responsibility
    • If we choose, as a nation, to not provide adequate access to affordable healthcare, then in a health crisis WE COLLECTIVELY must assume the responsibility for that failure.
  • Finally, you seem to put the onus on individuals for living paycheck to paycheck.  Two thoughts because it's a shared responsibility
    • When a huge swath of the population works 2 or more jobs, 3-5 jobs in a household!, just to make ends meet, HOW CAN THEY SAVE?
    • When we as a nation have all but halted new housing, especially attainably priced homes and apartments, WE HAVE TO TAKE COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY for housing costs that eat up a third, or more, of people's income.
    • When we create a society where the most affordable neighborhoods are located the furthest away from key employment, and when we double down on the lack of proximity by not having adequate transit, the cost burden for housing + transportation creates a situation where the blame absolutely is not on the household working a combined 120 hours plus a week to make ends meet.  It's selfish to blame others for these situations when our nation has forced them into that corner, imo.

For some, it's on them.  They don't save. They spend on luxuries or material items. 

But for most? We have created a structurally faulted economy where we give handouts to those who need it the least, while we constrain the benefits of a well oiled free market (too many stupid regulations, which we compensate for with corporate welfare), and subsequently have a lack of access to skills/education/housing/healthcare to enable people to "work hard and lift themselves up"

 

 

I agree with everything you said.

I want to start with healthcare costs and education costs.

That said, we are probably jamming up this thread ;).  Lets save the world in another one :)

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58 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

Please have everyone stay at home because clearly we aren’t able to exhibit proper behavior as a nation, ruining it for everyone. 

Teens Cough on Produce at Virginia Supermarket

I assume this is happening all the time just naturally over the course of a day and wash my fruit/produce accordingly before consumption.

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1 minute ago, tonydead said:

Now do that same graph with number of deaths.  Day 18:  Italy 3000.  US 200.

This is a valid point. It's not how many get tested, it's the death rate that counts.

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4 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Now do that same graph with number of deaths.  Day 18:  Italy 3000.  US 200.

What? The US has more than 200 deaths and Italy had way less than 3000 deaths on day 18, but nice try. 

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20 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I don't think we are overreacting, but I do think we are further along that curve than most suspect because of our lack of testing.  Does anyone know how widely the test was available in Italy?  I have no doubt we have more cases here than we know about due to the lack of tests.  If they were testing a larger percentage of their population than we are, the math says we actually have more cases proportionally missed and may not be as far behind on the curve compared to them.  All unknown and speculative obviously.

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53 minutes ago, Galileo said:

No, but is a couple of weeks too much to ask?

Link?

I haven't seen a definite time line yet and that concerns me.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

This is a valid point. It's not how many get tested, it's the death rate that counts.

 

26 minutes ago, Take_The_Shot said:

What? The US has more than 200 deaths and Italy had way less than 3000 deaths on day 18, but nice try. 

Whoops, my bad.  I will edit my post.  Italy 1016, US 237

Edited by tonydead
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46 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

PA has less and is pretty close. We shutdown all non-life-sustaining business. 

Did you see a list?

 Because apparently in Pa, ALOT of businesses are life sustaining

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1 minute ago, tonydead said:

 

Whoops, my bad.  I will edit my post.  Italy 1000, US 200

Italy's hospitals were overrun earlier.  That is still coming in America.

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56 minutes ago, Galileo said:
1 hour ago, [scooter] said:

It's not ideal. But you can't keep your family locked up forever.

I wouldn't be as worried about getting it from the puck as I'd be worried about getting it from a droplet from another kid.

He should wash his hands thoroughly the moment he comes inside the house, and you should keep disinfectant wipes by the door so you can wipe off the doorknob and anything else he may have touched.

No, but is a couple of weeks too much to ask?

We are all deluding ourselves if we think this is only going to last a couple of weeks.

This is going to be our way of life for the next 6-18 months, IMO. We won't be able to stay indoors forever.

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1 minute ago, zoonation said:

Italy's hospitals were overrun earlier.  That is still coming in America.

If we're going to compare graphs let's hope it follows number of deaths and is 1/5th as bad.

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2 minutes ago, tonydead said:
13 minutes ago, Take_The_Shot said:

What? The US has more than 200 deaths and Italy had way less than 3000 deaths on day 18, but nice try. 

Whoops, my bad.  I will edit my post.  Italy 1000, US 200

We hit 100 cases on March 2 (day 1). March 19 (day 18) we had 207 deaths.

Italy hit 100 cases on February 23 (day 1). March 11 (day 18) they had 827.

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I was wrong.

Early on, I posted in here that people were over reacting and made light of some things people were doing. I'd like to stand up and say I was wrong. I just didn't grasp the seriousness of this thing early on.

Anyway, carry on. This thread is awesome and I appreciate the info.

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4 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

We are all deluding ourselves if we think this is only going to last a couple of weeks.

This is going to be our way of life for the next 6-18 months, IMO. We won't be able to stay indoors forever.

And the damage from even 2 months....wow.  Bankruptcies, increased crime, suicides, the list goes on and on.

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2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

We hit 100 cases on March 2 (day 1). March 19 (day 18) we had 207 deaths.

Italy hit 100 cases on February 23 (day 1). March 11 (day 18) they had 827.

I used March 2 and February 23 as day zero.  1016 and 237.  

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Miami Beach shutting down hotels, hostels, motels, etc and set a midnight to 5am curfew. They were operating at 10-20% capacity, normally it's 90%+ this time of year.

 I wonder if the rest of the state will follow.

>> An emergency order signed by City Manager Jimmy Morales on Friday evening states that all “commercial lodging establishments” — including hotels, hostels, dormitories, motels and short-term rental units — must be “fully closed to guests and renters” by 11:59 p.m. on Monday. 

Our hotels have always been the lifeblood of our economy, so shuttering them is not something to do impulsively. But right now, as painful as it may be, the reality is we just cannot be a tourist destination,” said Miami Beach Mayor Dan Gelber in a statement. “Attracting visitors and tourists is just utterly incompatible with social distancing. <<

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article241382501.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

 

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15 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

We are all deluding ourselves if we think this is only going to last a couple of weeks.

This is going to be our way of life for the next 6-18 months, IMO. We won't be able to stay indoors forever.

Again, it's not about staying indoors forever. It's about staying indoors for a few weeks so the healthcare systems has time to continue preparations and face smaller waves, spread out over longer time frames.

 

10 minutes ago, kutta said:

I was wrong.

Early on, I posted in here that people were over reacting and made light of some things people were doing. I'd like to stand up and say I was wrong. I just didn't grasp the seriousness of this thing early on.

Anyway, carry on. This thread is awesome and I appreciate the info.

You are still ahead of the curve.... tell your neighbors. :D

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Posted (edited)

SF mayor declared state of emergency on 2/25. 0 cases. Now 76 cases. Asked if will extend stay home after April 7. Likely from what she sees and hears. SF doing very well in complying.

Edited by CurlyNight
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17 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

We are all deluding ourselves if we think this is only going to last a couple of weeks.

This is going to be our way of life for the next 6-18 months, IMO. We won't be able to stay indoors forever.

If number of deaths get bad, we'll shelter and come over it quicker.

If number of deaths remain low (as compared to Italy) it will drag out like you said.

If number of deaths stay steady we might just get bored with it after 3-6 months. 

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I saw where some of the hospitals wised up and moved IV machines out to the hallways.  Now the nurses won't go through masks and gowns as fast.

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pizza delivery coming.  gonna five it another 3-4 minutes in the oven at 200 degrees

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Anybody got a link to what businesses can stay open in Illinois?  There was a pretty good PDF posted of the ones closed and open for PA.  Anything like that in IL?  Our company has a warehouse there and some of the top brass thinks they can keep the warehouse open.

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8 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:
26 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

We are all deluding ourselves if we think this is only going to last a couple of weeks.

This is going to be our way of life for the next 6-18 months, IMO. We won't be able to stay indoors forever.

Again, it's not about staying indoors forever. It's about staying indoors for a few weeks so the healthcare systems has time to continue preparations and face smaller waves, spread out over longer time frames.

After the first two weeks, they will announce that the curve has not flattened, and so we will all be expected to "shelter indoors" for another 2 weeks.

And then another 2 weeks after that. Then another 2 weeks, and so on.

But it's just not realistic. Eventually, people are going to start going outside again. They just are.

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11 minutes ago, joffer said:

pizza delivery coming.  gonna five it another 3-4 minutes in the oven at 200 degrees

hit it with another 15 sec of microwaves too.

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7 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

After the first two weeks, they will announce that the curve has not flattened, and so we will all be expected to "shelter indoors" for another 2 weeks.

And then another 2 weeks after that. Then another 2 weeks, and so on.

But it's just not realistic. Eventually, people are going to start going outside again. They just are.

You can go outside. Just need to stay 6 ft apart from each other. The only thing that's changed is non essential businesses are closed.

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7 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

After the first two weeks, they will announce that the curve has not flattened, and so we will all be expected to "shelter indoors" for another 2 weeks.

And then another 2 weeks after that. Then another 2 weeks, and so on.

But it's just not realistic. Eventually, people are going to start going outside again. They just are.

It’s not just “going outside”, no chance people have enough food to last them, or enough money to buy additional food.  People will get fed up and go out to work or whatever’s needed to get money to acquire food.  If people don’t have an emergency supply of money, they certainly do r have an emergency supply of food and supplies.  

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1 hour ago, Smack Tripper said:

I don’t get the piling on these spring breakers.  
I didn’t see the hotels or airlines canceling their reservations 
 

 

I'm piling on both of them.

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Called a few places to deliver. Lines were busy for all of them. Everybody is ordering delivery tonight. 

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51 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

We are all deluding ourselves if we think this is only going to last a couple of weeks.

This is going to be our way of life for the next 6-18 months, IMO. We won't be able to stay indoors forever.

Well, since that's what you think - and you clearly know more than our elected leaders and medical professionals - let's just not even try then.

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6 minutes ago, matttyl said:

It’s not just “going outside”, no chance people have enough food to last them, or enough money to buy additional food.  People will get fed up and go out to work or whatever’s needed to get money to acquire food.  If people don’t have an emergency supply of money, they certainly do r have an emergency supply of food and supplies.  

Yeah I worry about this tipping point. That's when things can go south in a hurry. I live in Oakland, where all levels of society are represented, coupled with an understaffed policy force and dysfunctional city administration. Seems things are calm now. Will crime spike? Riots? Looting? If basic societal services decline or degrade, and access to common goods becomes challenging, I'm not sure how long the dam will hold.

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3 minutes ago, tamales said:

Called a few places to deliver. Lines were busy for all of them. Everybody is ordering delivery tonight. 

Fridge and pantry busting out the seems. Let’s order out !

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14 minutes ago, Big League Chew said:

Tempted to get takeout. But that means I’d have to unzip my bubble suit

Doordash is just dropping on your doorstep and leaving

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7 minutes ago, tamales said:

Called a few places to deliver. Lines were busy for all of them. Everybody is ordering delivery tonight. 

We ordered from our favorite Italian place last night and got a $100 gift certificate for later. 

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5 minutes ago, BeTheMatch said:
57 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

We are all deluding ourselves if we think this is only going to last a couple of weeks.

This is going to be our way of life for the next 6-18 months, IMO. We won't be able to stay indoors forever.

Well, since that's what you think - and you clearly know more than our elected leaders and medical professionals - let's just not even try then.

It's not that I think we shouldn't try.

It's that I think that when the rest of the country realizes that "trying" was a failure, then they're going to be less likely to listen to those same elected leaders when they tell us that we need to try it for another 2 weeks.

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31 minutes ago, D-Day said:

I saw where some of the hospitals wised up and moved IV machines out to the hallways.  Now the nurses won't go through masks and gowns as fast.

My DIL is a contract nurse.  She has learned that in the hospital where she normally works (occasional one day contracts), nurses are basically using one mask throughout their shift.  In normal times, and ideally, they'd change masks when visiting each new patient.  Not good.  DIL is not taking contract jobs right now, given that she has 3 and 1/2 year old sons ...it's just not worth the risk (especially given the mask situation), despite her desire to help out.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tonydead said:

If number of deaths get bad, we'll shelter and come over it quicker.

If number of deaths remain low (as compared to Italy) it will drag out like you said.

If number of deaths stay steady we might just get bored with it after 3-6 months. 

The more we stay in the longer it lasts. 

 

We are probably about 11 doubling periods to reach a peak. We have been doubling every 2 days. If we stay like this we would peak in April with a rate of cases that would overwhelm the health care system. I have heard we are trying to slow to 8 days. That makes the peak in June. 

Edited by Drunken Cowboy
Drunken spelling
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8 minutes ago, Sandeman said:

Yeah I worry about this tipping point. That's when things can go south in a hurry. I live in Oakland, where all levels of society are represented, coupled with an understaffed policy force and dysfunctional city administration. Seems things are calm now. Will crime spike? Riots? Looting? If basic societal services decline or degrade, and access to common goods becomes challenging, I'm not sure how long the dam will hold.

In SF and the Bay Area south police are monitoring that businesses comply. If not they are informed. Next up, in trouble. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, joffer said:

Doordash is just dropping on your doorstep and leaving

Local pizza place told me I’d have to meet the guy at the door and sign the receipt. 
 

“there is literally no chance of me doing that” 

...but we need the signature. 

“I’ll call someplace else then”

ok my boss said it’s fine. :loco: 

Edited by Capella
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4 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

It's not that I think we shouldn't try.

It's that I think that when the rest of the country realizes that "trying" was a failure, then they're going to be less likely to listen to those same elected leaders when they tell us that we need to try it for another 2 weeks.

At no point have I thought this is a two-week thing, and I'm not sure it's been communicated as such aside from our President, who not too long ago said this was a few cases that would miraculously disappear and all would be well. 

I do think as weather improves and we push through April and into May, the urge to go out and about will be too strong for some to overcome. That could be a problem.

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26 minutes ago, lod001 said:

hit it with another 15 sec of microwaves too.

I'd put each individual slice over a boiling, steaming tea kettle for another 25 seconds as well.  

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58 minutes ago, kutta said:

I was wrong.

Early on, I posted in here that people were over reacting and made light of some things people were doing. I'd like to stand up and say I was wrong. I just didn't grasp the seriousness of this thing early on.

Anyway, carry on. This thread is awesome and I appreciate the info.

This is a pretty awesome post.

We could use more humility & graciousness. 

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