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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (20 Viewers)

Mr Anonymous said:
I was sharing reports of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine last week - and before Trump uttered one word about them.

But you do you. People like you have won.

I've posted my last link about treatments being used on coronavirius. People can seek out whatever reason for optimism or pessimism on their own.
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Ive literally been reading most all of your links.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Doctor in New York is claiming that his team has treated 500 coronavirus patients around the New York area with the following results...

Here's a copy of the letter he wrote where he spells out his treatment regimen and his claimed results...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SesxgaPnpT6OfCYuaFSwXzDK4cDKMbivoALprcVFj48/edit
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Bad source -- that letter will get pulled due to "Terms of Service" soon.

More on Dr. Vladimir Zelenko (The Journal News, 3/19/2020) 

A social media video purporting that Kiryas Joel would incur a massive outbreak of coronavirus cases was forcibly debunked by the Orange County health commissioner, who called it "unsubstantiated and irresponsible."

Orange County had 68 confirmed case of COVID-19 as of Thursday morning. County officials have not disclosed the communities in which patients who have tested positive live. Kiryas Joel Administrator Gedalye Szegedin said he was told of about 14 confirmed cases in the Hasidic village during a conference call with health officials Thursday afternoon. 

...

The positive cases were announced in a widely circulated Facebook video by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, a family doctor with offices in Monroe and Monsey, who said tests had come back positive for nine of his 14 patients from Kiryas Joel. He projected that a high percentage of residents ultimately would become ill.

Zelenko did not return calls for comment on Thursday.
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JAA said:
With all due respect Jayrod, you have.  You said the economic impact will kill more people than the virus.  I hope you are not trolling.
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@JAA If this is what you think I'm saying, then I understand why you are disagreeing.  That is not what I am saying at all.

I'm saying there is a hypothetical point in the future where the economic impact COULD kill more people than the virus.  I don't believe we have hit that point at all (sorry, I guess I was assuming that was obvious).  It is simply something to be cognizant of as we move forward in our decision making.  We can't just commit to indefinite orders of stay-at-home without there being some real consequences and those include increased death rates from poverty.  At some point in time, the net effect of quarantining ourselves will become negative along a long enough timeline.  I have no idea how long that is, and no one does.  There is a hypothetical ideal point of quarantine (some kind of phasing or combination no doubt) that will both save the optimal number of lives from the virus while risking the minimal number of lives through the economic impact.  I hope we can get as close to that as possible.

However, I think we can all agree that without widespread testing we will be shooting in the dark.  Also, I agree that we would have been much better off to have acted much quicker than we did with stay-at-home orders.  This whole thing has been handled poorly by our nation in comparison to nations like South Korea and Germany.

 
BREAKING: Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt orders all non-essential businesses in counties with positive COVID-19 cases to close starting tomorrow at 11:59 p.m. for at least 21 days.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
China currently has 32 registered ongoing trials of chloroquine...

http://www.chictr.org.cn/searchprojen.aspx?title=chloroquine&officialname=&subjectid=&secondaryid=&applier=&studyleader=&ethicalcommitteesanction=&sponsor=&studyailment=&studyailmentcode=&studytype=0&studystage=0&studydesign=0&minstudyexecutetime=&maxstudyexecutetime=&recruitmentstatus=0&gender=0&agreetosign=&secsponsor=&regno=&regstatus=0&country=China&province=&city=&institution=&institutionlevel=&measure=&intercode=&sourceofspends=&createyear=0&isuploadrf=&whetherpublic=&btngo=btn&verifycode=&page=1
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So you're saying that an authoritarian regime that purports to care more about the collective than it's individual citizens is running clinical trials BEFORE widely and indiscriminately disseminating the drug.  Interesting.

To be clear, we are ALL rooting for this to be an effective treatment.  

 
Jayrod said:
@JAA If this is what you think I'm saying, then I understand why you are disagreeing.  That is not what I am saying at all.

I'm saying there is a hypothetical point in the future where the economic impact COULD kill more people than the virus.  I don't believe we have hit that point at all (sorry, I guess I was assuming that was obvious).  It is simply something to be cognizant of as we move forward in our decision making.  We can't just commit to indefinite orders of stay-at-home without there being some real consequences and those include increased death rates from poverty.  At some point in time, the net effect of quarantining ourselves will become negative along a long enough timeline.  I have no idea how long that is, and no one does.  There is a hypothetical ideal point of quarantine (some kind of phasing or combination no doubt) that will both save the optimal number of lives from the virus while risking the minimal number of lives through the economic impact.  I hope we can get as close to that as possible.

However, I think we can all agree that without widespread testing we will be shooting in the dark.  Also, I agree that we would have been much better off to have acted much quicker than we did with stay-at-home orders.  This whole thing has been handled poorly by our nation in comparison to nations like South Korea and Germany.
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Nice post Jayrod.  I've setup my life so I can live like Sandra Bullock in "The Net" and stay isolated indefinitely, but I know that's not the norm in our society.  We can't stay locked up forever.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Wow. So there's nothing to be drawn from so many different countries publishing guidelines advising the use of these same drugs because of their positive early results?
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No indeed -- the countries that have published those guidelines have revoked them soon after. See my long, spoilered post near the top of page 250.

How many times does a person have to pair the sharing of these documents with also saying these are hopeful early signs, not reason to consider this pandemic over and done with?
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Don't concern yourself with convincing me one way or the other ... my standard for conclusive evidence is very high. Bluntly -- a mere preponderance of 'articles' and 'studies' won't cut ice. They have to be the right kind of studies describing the right kinds of well-designed trials taken all the way through completion. Those right kinds of studies have to have conclusively positive results, AND THEN other researchers in other places have to be able to replicate the trials and get similar results.

With that caveat I keep repeating, I just don't see the rationale behind trying to squash optimism. Your response would be expected if I was making bold proclamations that we should all go back to life as normal. That's not the case here.
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One man's "squashing optimism" is another man's "taking great care to not even begin to consider letting up".

I am happy to take your intentions at your word. Others out here in meatspace are far less circumspect about the hydrochloroquine news, however. It's being used as an "out" by some people -- "Now we pretty much have an effective treatment, right? Let's get everything opened back ASAP!"

 
Dow Surges +2112, Biggest Point Gain in All History

Maybe that'll take a little pressure off the "get back to work" crowd.

The Dow had its best day since 1933, clawing back some of its recent, brutal losses on signs that Congress was nearing a deal for a US stimulus package worth as much as $2 trillion to battle the coronavirus pandemic.

The Dow Jones industrial average rose 2,112.98 points, or 11.4 percent, to 20,704.91 as lawmakers closed in on a deal for the rescue package, which would shell out cash payments to American citizens and authorize massive bailouts for troubled industrial sectors, from airlines to mom-and-pop restaurants.

It was the biggest percentage gain for the Dow in more than 85 years, and its biggest point gain ever.
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Capella said:
Trump might get his wish that the churches will be full on Easter, but sadly they’ll all be in caskets. 
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On a side note, my family has had 2 deaths in the last month unrelated to the coronavirus.

It has made for some tough decisions regarding attending the memorial services. 

I attended a service in Denver on 3/13 (from SW Missouri) for a cousin's son who committed suicide at 16.

My 71-yr-old mother-in-law attended a service for her favorite aunt yesterday in a town 2.5 hours away, but she drove herself, touched no one and the service was outside.

These were some very calculated risks, but in both cases we felt the need to attend outweighed the risk of infection.  Had my cousin's funeral been this week I would not have gone, but things were still just coming to light 11 days ago and I was careful and have shown zero symptoms...so it looks like I was lucky.

 
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Spain had 4749 new cases and 497 new deaths today.  Awful numbers but better than yesterday though I don't think they are yet in place where curve will start flattening.  Spain is going to get worse in my mind but hopefully I am wrong.  

 
I think more people need to understand that we will not be able to stop this virus from running its course globally. Any amount of quarantining can be circumvented by someone who doesn’t play by the rules. Too many of us have the “Me first and #### everybody else” mentality.

So we can’t stop it dead, but we CAN slow it down. I think the strategy here is that we are playing the long game, doing damage control as best we can until there is a serviceable vaccine/antidote that is widely available. It’s going to take time and too many of us aren’t going to make it  

I’m sure most of us realize this, but I wish more people (not necessarily here) would stop looking at this as a winnable situation. We ARE going to get kicked in the balls. The boot has locked in a vector - we’ll just have to lie on the ground in the fetal position barfing until the pain stops. 

 
One of the towns near me just did an executive order “lockdown”.  The exclusion list was so long I literally cannot imagine a store that wouldn’t make the list.

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
Mrs works in a hospital as well...I mentioned they had 10 test kits at the start, were fortunate to have close to 1,000 going into this past weekend. 

No inpatients at the moment with the CV-19

It should be stressful in your house if you are walking in and out of a hospital, those places are full of germs.

Glad everyone has hitched their wagon to your stats and posts, I'm not going to re-post any of the numbers I came across, sounds like you have it all under control. You take care of you, don't envy you having to be exposed in a hospital, I'm concerned for my wife and I'm sure you understand. 

Again, cheers and stay strong.  
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I'm not normally stressed to go to work. This is an extreme situation. We've cordoned off an entire ward for COVID patients and rule outs, and set up a tent to see patients in front of the hospital. We don't have enough rapid test kits or masks. And this is still early. There are three more stages of disaster mitigation planned, and hospital personnel believe all will likely be called into play.

No one has "hitched their wagon" to my stats. They're paying attention to the flood of data around the world from infectious disease experts and epidemiologists, and not getting lost in interpretation of early and incomplete numbers, which invariably will worsen as our healthcare system is taxed.

We don't have it under control. That is what I'm trying to communicate, and dismissive posts run counter to that effort. If you want to be a contrarian, fine, but for you wife and many others' sake, please consider the possibility the experts know what they're talking about.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Easter, huh? Seems awfully ambitious but I really want it to be possible.
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Not to be all tinfoil hat about it, but he can come out with optimism about Easter, the market can go up 10%, the trial from the doctor posted above, and I'm not supposed to think where there's smoke there's fire? Even Fauci was optimistic, darn near cheerful for him, citing the increase in testing and the data, the containment, the isolating and the tracing like South Korea did as the new strategy for non-hotspots. Even Cuomo, who is flat out screwed right now, said we need to do tiered mitigation, open things back up, antibodies syrum, young workers first, etc. today.

So I interpret it basically like this. If you're currently sick or dying in NY, CA, WA or anywhere really, you're out of luck. But for everyone else, the uncertainty is lessening. Heck the guy said Easter. You don't think someone told him something that he can't say yet, but he still said it in not so many words because he can't keep his mouth shut?

NY is going to suffer the brunt of this, and other hotspots too, and I feel for the healthcare workers on the front line of this because for them it's still a horror show. But it's going to get better for everyone else, and that's apparently happening in a sooner rather than later timeframe. What changed from doom and gloom to this newer sense of optimism? For my money, it's the treatments. Again, not to tinfoil hat, but that's a crazy reversal today and not just from the crazy guy.  

 
Jayrod said:
Not do be a Debbie Downer, but it likely had something to do with the President's statements about getting back to work soon.  That and the stimulus package.
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I agree, and did I read the China did go back to work today? That has to be a positive. 

 
Terminalxylem said:
I'm not normally stressed to go to work. This is an extreme situation. We've cordoned off an entire ward for COVID patients and rule outs, and set up a tent to see patients in front of the hospital. We don't have enough rapid test kits or masks. And this is still early. There are three more stages of disaster mitigation planned, and hospital personnel believe all will likely be called into play.

No one has "hitched their wagon" to my stats. They're paying attention to the flood of data around the world from infectious disease experts and epidemiologists, and not getting lost in interpretation of early and incomplete numbers, which invariably will worsen as our healthcare system is taxed.

We don't have it under control. That is what I'm trying to communicate, and dismissive posts run counter to that effort. If you want to be a contrarian, fine, but for you wife and many others' sake, please consider the possibility the experts know what they're talking about.
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I was wondering if the terminology was standardized regarding this. Do you all have "Surge Capacity" levels like Conventional, Contingency and Crisis?

 
Apologies if it was already mentioned but DeBlasio says that if people in NYC don't do better with social distancing by Saturday he will finally close all playgrounds. 

Perfectly typical of how he has handled all of  this. 

 
RUSF18 said:
Apologies if it was already mentioned but DeBlasio says that if people in NYC don't do better with social distancing by Saturday he will finally close all playgrounds. 

Perfectly typical of how he has handled all of  this. 
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It's been sadly apparent that his lack of actions have contributed to the spot NY is in to some extent, which really sucks. 

 
RUSF18 said:
Apologies if it was already mentioned but DeBlasio says that if people in NYC don't do better with social distancing by Saturday he will finally close all playgrounds. 

Perfectly typical of how he has handled all of  this. 
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This is galaxy-brain leadership.

 
RUSF18 said:
Apologies if it was already mentioned but DeBlasio says that if people in NYC don't do better with social distancing by Saturday he will finally close all playgrounds. 

Perfectly typical of how he has handled all of  this. 
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I’m afraid to use the non-curseword English language descriptive terms I’d like to use for him, only because I don’t know if that’s banworthy only when applied to the president or if it applies to all elected officials whose handling or major issues I find at best lackluster, but, well, wow. 
 

He’s not good at being mayor. Or any kind of leader. I hope I can say that.  

 
Courtjester said:
So other than going to the store and standing in line with the masses (which I can't do), has anyone had any success ordering TP on-line. Everything on Amazon looks to be coming from China sometime in May and the local grocery stores won't let you add it to your order and pick it up. 
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I went into Walmart a little before 8am in and out with TP in less then 10 minutes.  Went through the self checkout no lines.

 
jonessed said:
Nurses get paid amazingly well in California.  Often, more than doctors.  I don’t see why we should be subsidizing their degrees.

Other states may be different.
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Other states are waaaaayyyy different. California is THE outlier, and a destination for RNs from around the world, not just the country, because of the pay. And, as hags mentioned, it's due to the Union.

 
RUSF18 said:
Apologies if it was already mentioned but DeBlasio says that if people in NYC don't do better with social distancing by Saturday he will finally close all playgrounds. 

Perfectly typical of how he has handled all of  this. 
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The guy is the worst of the worst

 
RUSF18 said:
Apologies if it was already mentioned but DeBlasio says that if people in NYC don't do better with social distancing by Saturday he will finally close all playgrounds. 

Perfectly typical of how he has handled all of  this. 
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Was walking the dog through a nearby park yesterday and there were two dads standing next to each other with infants in baby bjorns while they watched over 5 kids playing on the equipment together.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
RUSF18 said:
Apologies if it was already mentioned but DeBlasio says that if people in NYC don't do better with social distancing by Saturday he will finally close all playgrounds. 

Perfectly typical of how he has handled all of  this. 
Click to expand...
It's been sadly apparent that his lack of actions have contributed to the spot NY is in to some extent, which really sucks. 
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He has been suboptimal.

But Cuomo has been stellar. Every single day. Even diehard Republicans think his leadership has been exemplary.

 
The assisted living facility around the corner from my house just had their first positive case, a person who is now hospitalized.  My daughter volunteers there most weekends, although they stopped allowing visitors a couple of weeks ago so she hasn't been there since the 8th (16 days).

No illnesses, no symptoms, but if any kick in with the rest of us in the household I wonder if that would be enough to justify a test.

 
New Yorkers, please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't DeBlasio the one pushing for a quarantine in New York last week? Only to have Cuomo shoot it down and say it's a decision that can only come from him. Don't get me wrong, I've been a fan of Cuomo throughout this, just trying to wrap my head around this disconnect.

 
hagmania said:
I was wondering if the terminology was standardized regarding this. Do you all have "Surge Capacity" levels like Conventional, Contingency and Crisis?
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I’m not sure - We definitely have surge capacity plans, but I don’t recall the level terminology delineated as above.

 
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SFBayDuck said:
The assisted living facility around the corner from my house just had their first positive case, a person who is now hospitalized.  My daughter volunteers there most weekends, although they stopped allowing visitors a couple of weeks ago so she hasn't been there since the 8th (16 days).

No illnesses, no symptoms, but if any kick in with the rest of us in the household I wonder if that would be enough to justify a test.
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Not in my state.

 
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