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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, bradyfan said:

Thanks for the update.  FBGs have zero tolerance for propaganda.  I will boycott both the Daily Mail plus the New York Post from now on.  

I can't speak to the Daily Mail, but the Post has ALWAYS been "flexible" with what constitutes news, the truth, or objectivity.  For one, they are a platform that has historically conflated NEWSpaper with tabloid (they are even called a tabloid in NY... along with the Daily News, which imo is not nearly as egregious, but still sometimes veers... in all transparency, the Post is the "Right Leaning/Conservative" and Daily News the "Left Leaning/Liberal" tabloid/rag as they are referred to back home).  They are also a Murdoch outlet, for what that's worth. 

Between their lack of political objectivity and penchant for flair and controversy over truth, context, and straight shooting, I am naturally suspicious of anything the Post writes.  But, page 6 is a hoot, and for sports there is good value there.  That's generally it in my personal opinion. I also am very skeptical of what is in the Daily News.

Edited by Koya
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28 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

Given how many people could have left NYC to live this crisis out "elsewhere where in the country", it is very possible that NYC hospitals won't be impacted as much as Italy's were (and still are). So the numbers she is seeing could be very true. 

But, of course, that presents the other problem... that NYC's problem just became the problem of "elsewhere in the country". 

 

Please don't keep saying this is a NY problem.  This is a national crisis and calling it a NY issue is like calling it the China Virus.  Doesn't deal with what we are facing and just passing the blame on someone else.  

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Koya said:

I can't speak to the Daily Mail, but the Post has ALWAYS been "flexible" with what constitutes news, the truth, or objectivity.  For one, they are a platform that has historically conflated NEWSpaper with tabloid (they are even called a tabloid in NY... along with the Daily News, which imo is not nearly as egregious, but still sometimes veers... in all transparency, the Post is the "Right Leaning/Conservative" and Daily News the "Left Leaning/Liberal" tabloid/rag as they are referred to back home).  They are also a Murdoch outlet, for what that's worth. 

Between their lack of political objectivity and penchant for flair and controversy over truth, context, and straight shooting, I am naturally suspicious of anything the Post writes.  But, page 6 is a hoot, and for sports there is good value there.  That's generally it in my personal opinion. I also am very skeptical of what is in the Daily News.

Sports in the Post and NY Daily news are great sections for covering NY sports.  Those are legitimate news when it comes to Sports.  

Edited by Redwes25
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5 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Please don't keep saying this is a NY problem.  This is a national crisis and calling it a NY issue is like calling it the China Virus.  Doesn't deal with what we are facing and just passing the blame on someone else.  

Michigan and Louisiana (specifically Detroit and New Orleans) are spiraling as well.

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1 hour ago, prosopis said:

I filed for unemployment. For the first time ever.

Sorry GB

1 hour ago, Politician Spock said:

In other words, GM couldn't make a profit at the price the government was willing to pay for them. 

My comment isn't directed at you Spock, just in general.

There are times when profit should be secondary to the greater good. GM deals with the government on a 100 different projects everyday, they know what the margins are. Every government contract I've been involved with is capped in one way or the other, either not-to-exceed or set margin of X% over cost (usually low single digits).

Doesn't matter as it seems judging by comments I've seen, the folks signing the check don't feel the need for these anyhow.

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13 minutes ago, tamales said:

Boiling water is a fun suggestion to do with your kids?

You know what else you can do with boiling water? Make bagels. 

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51 minutes ago, Ben Hur said:
55 minutes ago, Statorama said:

If this is a no politics zone, why are we allowing legal insurrection articles to be posted here?  

I'll go as far as to say any weighing of "economic shutdown" against "hospitalizations and lives lost" is purely political talk.

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12 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Please don't keep saying this is a NY problem.  This is a national global crisis and calling it a NY issue is like calling it the China Virus.  Doesn't deal with what we are facing and just passing the blame on someone else.  

Had to make that change, sorry.

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12 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Please don't keep saying this is a NY problem.  This is a national crisis and calling it a NY issue is like calling it the China Virus.  Doesn't deal with what we are facing and just passing the blame on someone else.  

Okay. I'll change my words to reflect that NYC is leading the way in our country.  

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47 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I guess the things that come to mind are packed bars locally for St Patrick’s Day and the news coverage of Spring Break. If there is that much blatant disregard for it is what we are doing still going to work? I hope so, but definitely some knuckleheads out there. 

personally from my experience I'm seeing what Joe sees - the majority of people are taking it seriously and trying to do this social distancing thing right. But there's still plenty of idiots out there and the media's gonna focus on showing us those people instead, because covering folks who are good citizens and comply with the government orders is boring and doesn't attract viewers.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Koya said:

I can't speak to the Daily Mail, but the Post has ALWAYS been "flexible" with what constitutes news, the truth, or objectivity.  For one, they are a platform that has historically conflated NEWSpaper with tabloid (they are even called a tabloid in NY... along with the Daily News, which imo is not nearly as egregious, but still sometimes veers... in all transparency, the Post is the "Right Leaning/Conservative" and Daily News the "Left Leaning/Liberal" tabloid/rag as they are referred to back home).  They are also a Murdoch outlet, for what that's worth. 

Between their lack of political objectivity and penchant for flair and controversy over truth, context, and straight shooting, I am naturally suspicious of anything the Post writes.  But, page 6 is a hoot, and for sports there is good value there.  That's generally it in my personal opinion. I also am very skeptical of what is in the Daily News.

I sometimes check the propaganda rags just to see what people may be reading.  You can fight misinformation only when you know what is out there.

Edited by bradyfan

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2 minutes ago, Possum said:

But there's still plenty of idiots out there and the media's gonna focus on showing us those people instead, because covering folks who are good citizens and comply with the government orders is boring and doesn't attract viewers.

Boring or unnecessary, and potentially undermining to the need? 

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2 hours ago, beer 30 said:

We completely retooled our industrial capabilities in a relatively short period of time and started pumping out what we needed to win a world war. I don't look at this much differently and think the response we need to get ahead of this is similar. You are also putting people to work that otherwise wouldn't be. We can figure this out, we're pretty ####### smart in this country.

We don't have the political will, nor the central expertise necessary to execute this.  Few are willing to sacrifice now like people sacrificed in WWII.

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1 minute ago, Possum said:

personally from my experience I'm seeing what Joe sees - the majority of people are taking it seriously and trying to do this social distancing thing right. But there's still plenty of idiots out there and the media's gonna focus on showing us those people instead, because covering folks who are good citizens and comply with the government orders is boring and doesn't attract viewers.

I know it's a cliche but there is truth in the saying "we are only as strong as our weakest link". Given essential workers have to keep us alive, there is going to be a certain amount of virus spread. It's unavoidable. The hope is that amount of virus spread necessary to keep essential workers working will keep the curve below the line that exceeds our hospital capacity. It won't take much activity at all from the non-essential group to push us over the line. Even if the vast majority of non-essential people are doing it right, it could be all for not because of our weak links. 

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1 minute ago, BigJim® said:

Boring or unnecessary, and potentially undermining to the need? 

not sure I understand - showing people doing the right thing is unnecessary and undermining the need? 

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4 minutes ago, Possum said:

personally from my experience I'm seeing what Joe sees - the majority of people are taking it seriously and trying to do this social distancing thing right. But there's still plenty of idiots out there and the media's gonna focus on showing us those people instead, because covering folks who are good citizens and comply with the government orders is boring and doesn't attract viewers.

I don't think it's really possible to know how many are doing the right thing or not from our experiences. Everyone I know is generally staying home, but that's partly because we were ordered home from work, plus we tend to associate with people who share similar values. 

Everybody I interact with is now done virtually, so it seems like most are being responsible because that's all I see. However, because I AM staying home, there could be 20 people playing basketball up the street and I'd have no idea because I'm not out to see them. The court could also be empty- same thing. 

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

We don't have the political will, nor the central expertise necessary to execute this.  Few are willing to sacrifice now like people sacrificed in WWII.

I disagree 100% - there might be a significant portion of folks too caught up in stupid political divisions to be able to work together, but there are plenty of people out there on both sides willing to make the necessary sacrifices to beat this thing.

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This is some b.s. I'm dealing with at the moment. I said previously that the gf worked in medical sales. Specifically, she's in home health dealing with elderly patients needing treatment from home. Thankfully all the nursing homes shut them out weeks ago, and most hospitals have shut them out. Well, they also own space in the largest hospital in town where they are still allowed to still go in, and the company has not only told them to go there daily, but they doubled the workforce. Last night she tells me that she's still going into patients' rooms, telling me of one instance yesterday where she was called to an 88 year old patient's room who has dementia. No PPE. The woman grabs her, pulls her close, and starts asking her normal dementia induced questions like, "where am I? where are my loved ones?" She shouldn't be in that hospital or in that room. I told her to quit or at least not show up, but she's required by work to be there again, and she's there again today.

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1 minute ago, McBokonon said:

I don't think it's really possible to know how many are doing the right thing or not from our experiences. Everyone I know is generally staying home, but that's partly because we were ordered home from work, plus we tend to associate with people who share similar values. 

Everybody I interact with is now done virtually, so it seems like most are being responsible because that's all I see. However, because I AM staying home, there could be 20 people playing basketball up the street and I'd have no idea because I'm not out to see them. The court could also be empty- same thing. 

agreed, it's all anecdotal experience. All I'm saying is my experience out here in BFE Florida is that most people are trying to do the right thing, and I think it's important not to get too caught up and stressed out over media reports on the idiots who aren't.

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Well, here's a good thing I suppose.  DHS has extended the deadline to obtain that hideous "Real ID" 1 year, until 10/1/2021.

If you recall, in order to fly domestically, you'd need a verified driver's license as ID, usually with a star added to it, upper right hand corner.  This would be for people that didn't have or want to bring a passport with them to the airport.  The passport still makes you not need a "Real ID", but there are people without passports that fly domestically.

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Love this. 

 

I'm disappointed at the number of students in that class who obviously had no idea who that was.

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More than 500 NYPD with the virus.  About 11% of the department has called in sick, per CNN.  Yikes.

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2 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

Well, here's a good thing I suppose.  DHS has extended the deadline to obtain that hideous "Real ID" 1 year, until 10/1/2021.

If you recall, in order to fly domestically, you'd need a verified driver's license as ID, usually with a star added to it, upper right hand corner.  This would be for people that didn't have or want to bring a passport with them to the airport.  The passport still makes you not need a "Real ID", but there are people without passports that fly domestically.

Thanks for the heads up. We just got our new passports but would rather just bring along our license when travelling domestic.

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16 minutes ago, Ben Hur said:

Is New Orleans because of Mardi Gras?  If this is somehow proven, then that's gonna leave a mark for re-opening sports and stuff.

Without contract tracing, there will never be real numbers about how many infections happened during Mardi Gras. But it's obvious that many did.

The hard thing in retrospect is that Carnival season started well before anything threatening the U.S. was considered -- smaller parades started the weekend of Feb 1st-2nd, larger ones two weeks later on the 15th-16th. IIRC, that was even before Italy gained a substantial number of cases. Mardi Gras Day itself was Tuesday, February 25th.

I can tell you, also, that on local news outlets -- print, online, and broadcast -- news about COVID-19 was completely ignored until the weekend after Mardi Gras (Feb 29th - March 1st). I believe that our local paper first put a coronavirus article on the front page on Thursday 2/27.

On Monday, March 2nd, the state's Lt. Governor went on the largest news-radio station in the state (WWL in New Orleans) and talked about how there were no cases in Louisiana, and that the state and especially New Orleans were open for business with no issue in sight to change that. New Orleans mayor Latoya Cantrell repeated this mantra the next day. The mayor and other local leaders held firm to the "no cases here!" right up until the first New Orleans resident was diagnosed on Tuesday, March 10th.

The French Quarter was still packed with tourists and locals as of the early evening of Friday, March 13th. That was the last time I had to drive my daughter home from her art school, and the last time I've had a chance to lay eyeballs on the Quarter. Louisiana schools were all ordered closed that afternoon.

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4 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

Well, here's a good thing I suppose.  DHS has extended the deadline to obtain that hideous "Real ID" 1 year, until 10/1/2021.

If you recall, in order to fly domestically, you'd need a verified driver's license as ID, usually with a star added to it, upper right hand corner.  This would be for people that didn't have or want to bring a passport with them to the airport.  The passport still makes you not need a "Real ID", but there are people without passports that fly domestically.

Just received my Texas license (which covers this, though I have a passport - but prefer to travel with just my license as ID) just before this thing began to snowball - had to as my NY license expired early March... what a mess it would have been (personally, and inconvenience, nothing on par with what many are dealing with) if DMVs were closed and it expired, leaving me in a limbo as to how to get a new license in Texas with an expired out of state license.

 

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24 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

We don't have the political will, nor the central expertise necessary to execute this.  Few are willing to sacrifice now like people sacrificed in WWII.

There is a larger portion of the population that this applies today than back in 1940 but I still think the overwhelming majority of people in the US are willing to do what it takes to get the job done. Absent of leadership, people will get together and step up to the challenge. We see it everywhere, manufacturing retooling to lend a hand to make medical PPE or come up with a different approach to something we've been doing the same way for 50 years (ventilators). America is still great for the vast majority regardless of the doom & gloom we see in the headlines. Joe was correct, nobody reports on the plane landing.

19 minutes ago, Possum said:

I disagree 100% - there might be a significant portion of folks too caught up in stupid political divisions to be able to work together, but there are plenty of people out there on both sides willing to make the necessary sacrifices to beat this thing.

:goodposting:100% agree with this

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12 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Without contract tracing, there will never be real numbers about how many infections happened during Mardi Gras. But it's obvious that many did.

Not Mardi Gras but Lauderdale. Interesting tweet, scary & cool all at once https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1243281598037913600?s=20

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From the Washington Post:

Where coronavirus outbreak started in Washington state, officials see hope as cases appear to be leveling off

KIRKLAND, Wash. —The suburban hospital that handled the first onslaught of coronavirus patients weeks ago — a crush of seriously ill and dying nursing home residents that signaled the beginning of the national health crisis — is now offering cautious optimism to people across the United States who are searching for an end to the springtime nightmare: They believe they might have flattened the curve here.

At EvergreenHealth Medical Center, two miles from the shuttered Lifecare nursing home where 35 patient deaths were linked to the virus, officials say their rate of new covid-19 cases has remained steady for two weeks, leveling off at a trickle. On some days, doctors here see just one new case and haven’t seen more than four in a single day since mid-March. Few need admission to the intensive care unit, which is now half full, two weeks after overflow necessitated transfers to nearby hospitals.

In the state that saw the nation’s first confirmed covid-19 case on Jan. 31, and the first recorded coronavirus-related death on Feb. 29, initial dire predictions of massive spikes have waned even as testing has increased rapidly. While the number of cases in Washington state grew by as much as 28 percent in one day on March 15 — it has since slowed significantly statewide, as have hospitalizations and deaths. 

State authorities said there have been 2,580 positive cases and 132 deaths, and as testing in Washington has ramped up, the percentage of positive cases has remained low — holding at about 7 percent.

“We know this is still a dire challenge, we know we have not turned the corner and we are not even close to the end of this battle, but we do think there is some evidence that our community mitigation strategy — to close schools, restaurants and theaters, to prohibit gatherings — we think these things have slowed the rate of increase in King, Snohomish and Pierce counties,” Inslee said during a news conference Thursday, pointing to a graph showing Washington’s rate of new cases beginning to flatten while most other states trend upward.

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1 hour ago, Buddy Ball 2K3 said:

I travel from Midwest Pa to Del and NJ and the only places I have seen it is at Costco where its forced and my own businesses. I will traveling up to NY today and I am sure that I will once again see people act as if little is going on. My point is that not that NOBODY is practicing SD, but the majority are not. 

If you think you’re seeing more than 50.1% of the average daily NY population out and about today, make sure your first post-lockdown appointment is with an optometrist. 

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The numbers are still being severely skewed by lack of testing.

Case in point: I have a close family member exhibiting all of the symptoms.

Our medical offices have been instructed to ask 3 standardized questions, basically: "Have you left the country recently?" "Have you been on a cruise recently?" "Have you been in contact with anyone who has tested positive for the virus?"

If you don't answer "yes" to one of those 3, they can't send you to a testing station. Instead, they were tested for flu to rule it out and then sent them home with treatment as if it is bronchitis. Doc said to call back if it worsened and they'd re-examine the testing options because the standards may have changed by then.

So I have three takeaways: 1- People who should be tested aren't getting tested and that's not great for our data and models. 2- We are going to have a hard time containing spread if we're not telling people they have it. 3- Our data on total cases is definitely flawed, which may mean the death rate is actually well below the feared 1% threshold.

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40 minutes ago, Possum said:

personally from my experience I'm seeing what Joe sees - the majority of people are taking it seriously and trying to do this social distancing thing right. But there's still plenty of idiots out there and the media's gonna focus on showing us those people instead, because covering folks who are good citizens and comply with the government orders is boring and doesn't attract viewers.

Not sure where you guys are, but maybe in places that are hit a little harder? 

Plus, IMO is more the type of people who display that attitude. It's not the person going against protocol for an extra grocery run or two (or a bagel), it's those few outliers that have a party, go to the park and play ball, go to church, then go to work.  

As SK showed us when a big % of their cases were traced to one person, this isnt a battle one with 80% on board even though those 80% are doing a great job. 

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2 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

From the Washington Post:

Where coronavirus outbreak started in Washington state, officials see hope as cases appear to be leveling off

KIRKLAND, Wash. —The suburban hospital that handled the first onslaught of coronavirus patients weeks ago — a crush of seriously ill and dying nursing home residents that signaled the beginning of the national health crisis — is now offering cautious optimism to people across the United States who are searching for an end to the springtime nightmare: They believe they might have flattened the curve here.

At EvergreenHealth Medical Center, two miles from the shuttered Lifecare nursing home where 35 patient deaths were linked to the virus, officials say their rate of new covid-19 cases has remained steady for two weeks, leveling off at a trickle. On some days, doctors here see just one new case and haven’t seen more than four in a single day since mid-March. Few need admission to the intensive care unit, which is now half full, two weeks after overflow necessitated transfers to nearby hospitals.

In the state that saw the nation’s first confirmed covid-19 case on Jan. 31, and the first recorded coronavirus-related death on Feb. 29, initial dire predictions of massive spikes have waned even as testing has increased rapidly. While the number of cases in Washington state grew by as much as 28 percent in one day on March 15 — it has since slowed significantly statewide, as have hospitalizations and deaths. 

State authorities said there have been 2,580 positive cases and 132 deaths, and as testing in Washington has ramped up, the percentage of positive cases has remained low — holding at about 7 percent.

“We know this is still a dire challenge, we know we have not turned the corner and we are not even close to the end of this battle, but we do think there is some evidence that our community mitigation strategy — to close schools, restaurants and theaters, to prohibit gatherings — we think these things have slowed the rate of increase in King, Snohomish and Pierce counties,” Inslee said during a news conference Thursday, pointing to a graph showing Washington’s rate of new cases beginning to flatten while most other states trend upward.

So I had been noticing that Washington's numbers weren't spiraling like other states.  That's really good news although right after that article was written, Washington released numbers of +627 and an increase from 2,580 to 3,207 in one day...

So hopefully that was a one-off and possibly a backlog of testing results that came through or something.

 

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Quote

Scientists are starting to roll out new blood tests for the coronavirus, a key development that, unlike the current diagnostic tests, will help pinpoint people who are immune and reveal the full scope of the pandemic.

The “serological” tests — which rely on drawn blood, not a nasal or throat swab — can identify people who were infected and have already recovered from Covid-19, including those who were never diagnosed, either because they didn’t feel particularly sick or they couldn’t get an initial test. Scientists expect those individuals will be safe from another infection for at least some time — so the tests could signal who could be prioritized to return to work or serve as a frontline health worker.

The serological tests, which are being deployed in some countries in Asia and are starting to be used at one New York hospital, could also eventually help scientists answer outstanding epidemiological questions about the spread of the virus and might even steer an inoculation strategy should a vaccine make it to market.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/27/serological-tests-reveal-immune-coronavirus/?utm_source=STAT+Newsletters&utm_campaign=3442a73637-MR_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-3442a73637-152297566

THIS is encouraging!

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The Waffle House Index?

When Waffle House closes, you know it’s serious. Coronavirus shuts Key Largo location

>> The Waffle House Index is an unofficial metric typically used by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to determine the effect of a storm and the amount of assistance needed for disaster recovery.

On Wednesday, it entered Code Red according to the 24-hour restaurant chain.

Translation: If you weren’t taking social distancing seriously in the midst of the global COVID-19 pandemic, you better start now.

As of Friday, the chain’s website lists 429 locations across the country that have closed. These include Florida locations in Key Largo, Cape Coral, Sarasota, Cocoa Beach, Kissimmee, three in Orlando, St. Petersburg, Seminole, Casselberry, Largo, Clearwater, two in Port Orange, Daytona Beach, Ormond Beach and two in Panama City Beach.

More than 1,500 locations remained open nationwide but most — including in Broward and Miami-Dade — were take-out only. <<

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1 hour ago, Koya said:

FWIW, literally just got news of this hitting closish to home.  Until now, I had not known anyone who has had COVID-19 hit them directly.

On our morning conference call, one of my colleagues let us know that her Mother had been infected and was in the hospital.  The good news is she is recovering... but it's sobering nonetheless.

As she said, we all need to be careful and vigilant, but catching this is not a death sentence - for most.  But, it is for some. And the threat of contagion is real.

Best of health to everyone out there.

Same here. Just found out a college buddy who is a golf pro in Indianapolis has it and I guess he's not doing well.  😞 

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40 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I'm disappointed at the number of students in that class who obviously had no idea who that was.

1:00 mark, row 3, second from left - bored out of her tree :lol:

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1 hour ago, bradyfan said:

AP: Two 20-somethings extend ‘invisible hands’ in virus outbreak

https://www.invisiblehandsdeliver.com/ 
Free deliveries (groceries and medicine) for the most at-risk community members facing COVID-19.  Currently Servicing the greater New York area and parts of New Jersey! More locations coming soon…

One of my closest friends is from NY, and his mother is getting help from this org.  Truly amazing to see people step up and make a difference.

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21 minutes ago, RnR said:

The numbers are still being severely skewed by lack of testing.

Case in point: I have a close family member exhibiting all of the symptoms.

Our medical offices have been instructed to ask 3 standardized questions, basically: "Have you left the country recently?" "Have you been on a cruise recently?" "Have you been in contact with anyone who has tested positive for the virus?"

If you don't answer "yes" to one of those 3, they can't send you to a testing station. Instead, they were tested for flu to rule it out and then sent them home with treatment as if it is bronchitis. Doc said to call back if it worsened and they'd re-examine the testing options because the standards may have changed by then.

So I have three takeaways: 1- People who should be tested aren't getting tested and that's not great for our data and models. 2- We are going to have a hard time containing spread if we're not telling people they have it. 3- Our data on total cases is definitely flawed, which may mean the death rate is actually well below the feared 1% threshold.

Are we at a point where people should just answer yes to the screening questions if people really want to be tested? I suspect the answer (depending upon where people live) is for them to expect to be told that they ae presumptive positive, to self-quarantine, and to report back if their condition worsens to the point of being in "serious condition."

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New York reports 5,658 new cases and 53 new deaths.  They do a second update at night too.

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Just now, Capella said:

Only in America 

Best health care system in the world! ‘Murica!

SMH

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, shader said:

New York reports 5,658 new cases and 53 new deaths.  They do a second update at night too.

NY was at 385 deaths yesterday, today so far Cuomo reported 519. 

The flu :kicksrock:

 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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Just now, fantasycurse42 said:

NY was at 385 deaths yesterday, today so far Cuomo reported 519. 

yesterday was 466

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Just now, jamny said:

yesterday was 466

Then CNBC just gave bad information.

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1 hour ago, Possum said:

not sure I understand - showing people doing the right thing is unnecessary and undermining the need? 

No, placing focus on nonharmful conduct vs the conduct you need to curb. What's the point in showing 10,000 people driving without a cell phone in their hand if you want to bring attention to the 500 who are? Giving the impression through messaging that its not a big problem is not helpful to curbing the conduct.

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