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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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19 minutes ago, [icon] said:

To be clear, the 55 gallon drums of water collects and filters rain water to irrigate his garden/yard… Actually quite functional, paying for themselves several times over. It's a pretty slick system that you wouldn't even really know is there unless you were looking for it.

The added benefit of having over 100 gallons of clean water on hand Is really just the cherry on top.

Once I get my own place again I'll install a rainwater collection system with filtration. It'll be used for brewing beer (and garden irrigation, potentially washing clothes)

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21 minutes ago, belljr said:

 

No one is really considering the drywall/sanding masks -   

 

 

I have a pack of these in the garage. Are they any good against the virus?

Edited by jamny

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Hearing that the travel insurance plans are trying hard to not payout for this.  

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6 minutes ago, msommer said:

Once I get my own place again I'll install a rainwater collection system with filtration. It'll be used for brewing beer (and garden irrigation, potentially washing clothes)

Mmmmmm beer. I had no idea you brewed :thumbup: 

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1 minute ago, culdeus said:

Hearing that the travel insurance plans are trying hard to not payout for this.  

Absolutely true.

Allianz has a disclaimer on their site saying they're not covering, and offering refunds to folks who purchased plans. My travel protection with Chase Sapphire said flat out they're not covering it when I called.

I'm guessing most/all will decline coverage unless you have a doctors note saying you're too sick to travel. Thankfully I know some doctors ;) 

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14 minutes ago, jamny said:

I have a pack of these in the garage. Are they any good against the virus?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

I assume up to date : shrug: so yes...

ill have to find the article about the paper mask 

the important thing if it comes down to it is no leakage

Edited by belljr

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2 hours ago, adonis said:

Can’t really envision any reasonable scenarios where social order breaks down.

At most, High number of deaths of those over 60, slammed healthcare facilities, possible quarantines, limited travel maybe, but police, fire, national guard, utilities, and basically the entire social order backbone is unlikely to be affected significantly.

The major issues I see are inconvenience levels, loss of wealth in a global economy slipping into recession, lack of healthcare options for me and family if we get sick near height of outbreak, and maybe some supply chain disruption where items I’ve been able to rely on aren’t available for a good long while anymore. 

To me that’s about worst case which is still pretty bad.  I just can’t realistically envision looting or folks coming for another persons supplies.  It’s no big deal to be prepared for that scenario in the incredibly unlikely event it takes place, but I can’t help but rate it as almost vanishingly unlikely.

If the death rate was 2% and everyone in the US caught it, we'd be looking at 6M deaths in the US only.  But the bigger issue, imo, is what happens when the hospitals are full.  

There are rumors that a higher percentage number of people that get this virus need to go to ICU.  If that's the case, will the death rate be higher when ICU's are full?

I think the repercussion to 5-10M dead people in this country are hard to imagine.  

1. The economy, which is likely due for a reset anyway, will suffer greatly. 

2. The Trump factor is important here.  What decisions will he make?  It feels like his presidency has been full of drama, but it's mostly been stuff related to him.  How will his administration handle what could theoretically be one of the most crucial years for any president.  And how will this impact the election?

3. Geo-political concerns. In many parts of the world, things are hanging  by a thread.  How will this virus change things in the MIddle East and other volatile areas?

4. Supply chain/economic concerns.  I was in a business meeting yesterday and one of my co-workers was discussing how the virus is beginning to have a major impact on our ability to deliver products.  It will be that way for much of the business world.  How serious is it in China?  We don't know, so we can't predict what will happen.  But if their social order fell apart, it would seriously damage the rest of the world in ways we probably haven't thought of.

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37 minutes ago, Tecumseh said:

Have a trip to Rome scheduled for first week of April. Completely non-refundable. So screwwweeeed.

We are supposed to go in September.  Have a few tours booked that may not be refundable.  One of the tour companies posted this on their website.  They are out of Florence.  Sounds like they are already taking a hit.

"A country’s tourism is collapsing thanks to massive media coverage and FEAR. A powerless feeling that the avalanche is hitting completely out of proportion. A catastrophe for sure for humanity, yet seemingly a flu-like virus who’s greatest damage is that it’s unknown. And doubtfully it’s everywhere by now (whether detected or not), but hopefully we can perceive that we must continue to live, laugh, travel and drink wine. If we don’t the consequences will be far beyond those directly caused by the virus. And this with massive respect for others and all the necessary precautions."

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Just now, bcat01 said:

We are supposed to go in September.  Have a few tours booked that may not be refundable.  One of the tour companies posted this on their website.  They are out of Florence.  Sounds like they are already taking a hit.

"A country’s tourism is collapsing thanks to massive media coverage and FEAR. A powerless feeling that the avalanche is hitting completely out of proportion. A catastrophe for sure for humanity, yet seemingly a flu-like virus who’s greatest damage is that it’s unknown. And doubtfully it’s everywhere by now (whether detected or not), but hopefully we can perceive that we must continue to live, laugh, travel and drink wine. If we don’t the consequences will be far beyond those directly caused by the virus. And this with massive respect for others and all the necessary precautions."

I will still go if there are no restrictions, but I'm concerned that travel to/from Italy will be locked down by the time we are supposed to leave.

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Asia tourism seems such a large part of Europe tourism.  

Sinophobia will cut both ways.  

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2 minutes ago, Tecumseh said:

I will still go if there are no restrictions, but I'm concerned that travel to/from Italy will be locked down by the time we are supposed to leave.

I would go as well, but I am holding off booking anything else until this summer.

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9 minutes ago, belljr said:

At your link, the first thing on the CDC's Coronavirus page, in the "Respiratory Protection" section:

Quote

 

1. Should I wear a respirator in public?

a. CDC does not recommend the routine use of respirators outside of workplace settings (in the community). my underline - db

 

Aren't respirators a type of passive mask (as opposed to a breathing device pumping air to your lungs)? If so ... is the CDC saying "don't use masks in public"? And if so ... what's the deal with the run on masks?

Or does the CDC say elsewhere "Don't use respirator masks but DO use something else (e.g. earloop masks)."

The guidance to the public is confusing to say the least.

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30 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Hearing that the travel insurance plans are trying hard to not payout for this.  

:lmao: on what grounds, are most of those no fault no questions asked policies?

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5 minutes ago, Doug B said:

At your link, the first thing on the CDC's Coronavirus page, in the "Respiratory Protection" section:

Aren't respirators a type of passive mask (as opposed to a breathing device pumping air to your lungs)? If so ... is the CDC saying "don't use masks in public"? And if so ... what's the deal with the run on masks?

Or does the CDC say elsewhere "Don't use respirator masks but DO use something else (e.g. earloop masks)."

The guidance to the public is confusing to say the least.

I think the philosophy is all "runs" is better to have it and not need it.  I think even if this kicked off in a big way, the longest possible disruption of a significant variety would be... two months.  I think think that's what China looks like what its staring down, mid january and they're opening up again a bit now, I think by Mid March they'll be back in gear, maybe I'm wrong. But yet, people will stockpile for 2 years.  Its their right and their purview but... probably not for me.  

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6 hours ago, [icon] said:

The plan to relocate to his house was made with lots of good laughs and whiskey over a campfire during annual guys camping trip.

We aren't those guys on TV hunkered down in underground bunkers chattering away on HAM radios and shooting up their white trash shipping container homes. :lol: 

See, in your cohort -- among the people you hang with and the people you know in real life -- bringing up this topic over a campfire is more or less normal. Or at least close enough to normal for everyone to follow the conversation where it leads and not just dismiss it at hand.

In other people's cohorts, just bringing up coronavirus prep at all gets you branded immediately as a "panicker" or a "crazy prepper". Sure, you might not care because you feel that you'll be prepared while they're all getting sick. But consider that for a lot of other people out there, right or wrong ... the people described in the blue sentence above are pretty much the same as those described in the red.

A lot of this stuff is based on feedback and reinforcement from the portions of society immediately around you. Not everyone's cohort is supporting advanced prep measures -- really not even supporting "a few extra groceries" if you were to go on a soapbox about it among company. Would you be quite so hot on prep if dang near no one around you -- not even 9000-sqft-house guy -- were giving this the time of day?

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9 minutes ago, Doug B said:

At your link, the first thing on the CDC's Coronavirus page, in the "Respiratory Protection" section:

Aren't respirators a type of passive mask (as opposed to a breathing device pumping air to your lungs)? If so ... is the CDC saying "don't use masks in public"? And if so ... what's the deal with the run on masks?

Or does the CDC say elsewhere "Don't use respirator masks but DO use something else (e.g. earloop masks)."

The guidance to the public is confusing to say the least.

It's all masks

 

: Does CDC recommend the use of facemask in the community to prevent COVID-19?

A: CDC does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses, including COVID-19. You should only wear a mask if a healthcare professional recommends it. A facemask should be used by people who have COVID-19 and are showing symptoms. This is to protect others from the risk of getting infected. The use of facemasks also is crucial for health workers and other people who are taking care of someone infected with COVID-19 in close settings (at home or in a health care facility).

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6 minutes ago, Doug B said:

At your link, the first thing on the CDC's Coronavirus page, in the "Respiratory Protection" section:

Aren't respirators a type of passive mask (as opposed to a breathing device pumping air to your lungs)? If so ... is the CDC saying "don't use masks in public"? And if so ... what's the deal with the run on masks?

Or does the CDC say elsewhere "Don't use respirator masks but DO use something else (e.g. earloop masks)."

The guidance to the public is confusing to say the least.

That policy was in place for a couple reasons: 

1) The virus wasn't "Here" yet. They don't want folks inducing panic, or using up supplies unnecessarily (masks are generally single use). 

2) As of yesterday they are now finally beginning to admit what's coming, and suggesting folks prepare. I expect a revised guidance on masks soon, however I think they'll stop short of suggesting wearing them in public (until it's too late). This is because there isn't a sufficient supply in place. No sense in telling people they need to wear masks and have folks freak out because they can't get any. 

I agree the CDC's communication on this has been subpar. 

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Not going to lie to the house:

I ain't got FBG cash. I can't drop $500 on single-use masks to last four people a month or so. What options are out there for regular people, as opposed to people who can burn $1,000 without missing it?

Covering an infected mouth is covering an infected mouth. Why are reusable items like bandannas/hankerchiefs no good**, but surgical masks are great?
 

** or are they usable in a pinch?

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1 minute ago, [icon] said:

That policy was in place for a couple reasons: 

1) The virus wasn't "Here" yet. They don't want folks inducing panic, or using up supplies unnecessarily (masks are generally single use). 

2) As of yesterday they are now finally beginning to admit what's coming, and suggesting folks prepare. I expect a revised guidance on masks soon, however I think they'll stop short of suggesting wearing them in public (until it's too late). This is because there isn't a sufficient supply in place. No sense in telling people they need to wear masks and have folks freak out because they can't get any. 

I agree the CDC's communication on this has been subpar. 

I'd suspect the odds of transmitting this via open air in public is considerably lower than transmitting it by touching contaminated surfaces in public.  Like someone mentioned before...it seems more reasonable to wear gloves in public than masks.

If someone is in a packed subway - ok, maybe.  If you're in a huge crowd, sure masks would help.  But for the other 95% of folks just going out, using shopping carts, opening doors, handling money, etc...a virus stuck to your warm hand will live longer and wait for that opportunity to rub an eye, wipe a nose, touch a mouth...or get transmitted to another person in a hand shake or other contact.

Masks seem most useful for healthcare professionals, which has been their guidance thus far.

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

Not going to lie to the house:

I ain't got FBG cash. I can't drop $500 on single-use masks to last four people a month or so. What options are out there for regular people, as opposed to people who can burn $1,000 without missing it?

Covering an infected mouth is covering an infected mouth. Why are reusable items like bandannas/hankerchiefs no good**, but surgical masks are great?
 

** or are they usable in a pinch?

N95 respirators work as well if not better.

They are literally a 20 pack for like 15 bucks.

The problem with them is it limits your breathing as it is literally lowering air in take.

Lowe's/home depot 3m 

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

Not going to lie to the house:

I ain't got FBG cash. I can't drop $500 on single-use masks to last four people a month or so. What options are out there for regular people, as opposed to people who can burn $1,000 without missing it?

Covering an infected mouth is covering an infected mouth. Why are reusable items like bandannas/hankerchiefs no good**, but surgical masks are great?
 

** or are they usable in a pinch?

I think in general, wash your hands, cover your own mouth when you cough, what is your concern, do you work with the public, do you have to be in large groups?  Might be worth sidestepping that for now, maybe minimizing public transport.  I think the masks are a little overdone, I have a few incase I would have to go somewhere or do something or if I had to take care of a couple elderly relatives I have, they're my big concern.  

But realistically, this virus is pretty tricky I think, a mask is only doing so much, its a bandaid to get you from here to there and everything I've head the priority is to not get other people sick.  You'd have to be phenomenally vigialant to keep it at bay if you're going out day to day in a  virus zone, disinfecting clothes, making sure you don't scratch your eye (and don't forget the goggles.  

If you're really concerned, try to minimize contact and stock up.  

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Just now, belljr said:

N95 respirators work as well if not better.

They are literally a 20 pack for like 15 bucks.

The problem with them is it limits your breathing as it is literally lowering air in take.

Lowe's/home depot 3m 

I've used these during sanding walls (paint prep), cleaning mold, etc. They hold up ... I can get several wears from one.

For coronavirus use ... how often would these have to be discarded and replaced by a healthy person? Upon return home after every trip outside of the house? Or can one last all day through multiple in-and-outs, and just use a new one in the morning?

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6 hours ago, [icon] said:

Agree with the latter. 

Our plan is kinda one of stages. Obviously it's quite unlikely we will get to all stages... but I like at least having a plan, and happen to have outdoorsy/military buddies who do as well: 

1) Now: start slowly phasing in light social distancing and improved hygienic habits. View large crowd gatherings as risk/reward scenarios. 

2) Spreading begins stateside: Telecommute. Shelter in place mostly. Social distancing and Light PPE when in public. Establish decon station in garage w/ crude "scrub station" to keep inside home "clear". Stage 2 bins with important personal items, have 2 large bins ready for clothes (Odds: Likely) 

3) Spreading begins locally: Firm shelter in place. Stage clothes, supplies & be prepared to roll to a buddy's house on short notice. IF either of us needs to leave, full PPE and scrub in when returning home. (Odds: 50 / 50 of happening)

4) Quarantine / Instability: If we see threat of forced quarantine / local travel restriction / Localized looting, we will load clothes/supplies/weapons/personal bins into our two vehicles, secure the house, and relocate to a buddy's house about 4 miles away per an agreed upon plan. (Odds: Highly unlikely) 

Secondary / Emergency Location: He, his wife, and 2yo son live in a 9000 square foot brick home in a very nice neighborhood. It sits atop a hill at the end of a cove with great sight lines in all directions.

He's in the military, is a weapons expert. He's got 2+ years of food, more ammo than we could ever need, reloading bench, a nice garden, honey bees, significant medical supplies, an extensive whiskey collection, roughly 500gal water storage (bottled, 2x 55gal drums, 4x water BOBs), plus rainwater collection system tied into his gutters and a large water purification system. HE is a "prepper", albeit a very normal dude. His wife is a military/civilian pilot as well. You'd never guess any of this meeting them or walking around their house, which is by design. 

We will have 4-5 couples (all close friends) there to share watch/duties with plenty of bedrooms/space for everyone. Each would be coming in with ~2+ months of supplies. We could comfortably shelter in place for extended period there, and properly defend it if anyone who didn't prepare decided to get nosy. 
 

Impressive plan.  I am wondering what the plan is if one or two of the 4-5 couples + kids come down with the virus?  

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Basic masks don't do anything other than:

1) keep a sick person from spreading the disease by minimizing airborne particles exiting their mouth 

2) keep you from touching your face, which moves germs from your hands to your mouth.

The only type of mask that is going to prevent airborne particles from getting into your system is an  n95 respirator, which is extremely uncomfortable to use.

Flu has still killed more people in 2020 than the coronavirus.  

Article from Feb 19th....   So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 75,000 illnesses and 2,000 deaths, primarily in mainland China. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has already caused an estimated 26 million illnesses, 250,000 hospitalizations and 14,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). 

 

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3 hours ago, munga30 said:

Mezcal is highly effective when adminstered rectally.  

It's so effective, an empty bottle also works

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Just now, belljr said:

N95 respirators work as well if not better.

They are literally a 20 pack for like 15 bucks.

The problem with them is it limits your breathing as it is literally lowering air in take.

Lowe's/home depot 3m 

If you decide to go this route, you should do so soon because word is getting out and they are already running low or at least that's what I've seen around town and on Amazon when I checked yesterday.

I informed the wife unit that we should stock up on some items with the thinking in mind that we would have enough to sustain us for 2 weeks. Nothing outside the norm other than buying a couple extra of stuff we would normally consume that you can put on the shelf. As I explained it to her, it's not so much to hunker in our bunker but to not have to be in a position where we have to go out in public when this thing gets it's legs under it in the US and really start spreading. She has a history of respiratory issues and I'd be very concerned about her being exposed to this.

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6 hours ago, [icon] said:

Certainly your call. If that happens I hope someone else will be looking out for your wife and kids, GB. 

I don't really understand the need for some to use hyperbole and personal digs to belittle folks who take a few steps to look out for their families. 

I wouldn't really call it extreme paranoia. We are living normal lives now, and will continue to do so until (if) spread begins here. If you walked around my house you'd have zero idea I had set a couple months supplies away. Same with my buddies. We are all white collar folks who make good livings and lead VERY active social lives. 

The plan to relocate to his house was made with lots of good laughs and whiskey over a campfire during annual guys camping trip.

We aren't those guys on TV hunkered down in underground bunkers chattering away on HAM radios and shooting up their white trash shipping container homes. :lol: 

You're talking about shooting people who didn't prepare accordingly from "great sightlines". Might be time for you to take a small step back from this fantasy world and soak in what you just typed.  

Edited by General Malaise
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Just now, beer 30 said:

If you decide to go this route, you should do so soon because word is getting out and they are already running low or at least that's what I've seen around town and on Amazon when I checked yesterday.

I informed the wife unit that we should stock up on some items with the thinking in mind that we would have enough to sustain us for 2 weeks. Nothing outside the norm other than buying a couple extra of stuff we would normally consume that you can put on the shelf. As I explained it to her, it's not so much to hunker in our bunker but to not have to be in a position where we have to go out in public when this thing gets it's legs under it in the US and really start spreading. She has a history of respiratory issues and I'd be very concerned about her being exposed to this.

If she has a history, are there any medications she uses when sick?  Albuterol?  Other commonly used items?  

The absolute best thing anyone can do right now is ensure they have medicine supply for 30 days or so, as a disruption to necessary medicine would be dangerous.  Next up could be folks like your wife, who have occasional issues where they have go-to medicines in those situations, but don't get them until they need them.  If possible and not too costly, probably best to get some of that now to be prepared.

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Just now, Doug B said:

Not going to lie to the house:

I ain't got FBG cash. I can't drop $500 on single-use masks to last four people a month or so. What options are out there for regular people, as opposed to people who can burn $1,000 without missing it?

Covering an infected mouth is covering an infected mouth. Why are reusable items like bandannas/hankerchiefs no good**, but surgical masks are great?
 

** or are they usable in a pinch?


My thoughts on masks: 

1) Something is better than nothing. N95 filters much smaller particles and is ideal, but a handkerchief will help stop the bulk of moisture/spittle from a cough or sneeze from going direct into your mouth. Perhaps more important is proper handling/removal/disinfection. @Terminalxylem probably can handle the nuances of this. 

2) If we're at the point you need to wear masks to be in general public, you should likely be only leaving the house when absolutely necessary, hence why some of us are preparing to shelter in place. Every time you leave the house is a chance (however small) you contract the virus. 

3) The goal is to keep your home clear of contamination so you can live normally (as can be expected), and only needing to worry about PPE on the (hopefully) rare occasions you leave your home. 

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1 minute ago, Smack Tripper said:

I think in general, wash your hands, cover your own mouth when you cough, what is your concern, do you work with the public, do you have to be in large groups? 

No, quite the opposite. I work in isolation even in the office, and I can work from home pretty readily (though bosses here are old-school and like 'face-time').

Quote

Might be worth sidestepping that for now, maybe minimizing public transport.

No public transport use. Personal vehicle only.

Quote

I think the masks are a little overdone, I have a few in case I would have to go somewhere or do something or if I had to take care of a couple elderly relatives I have, they're my big concern.

Brutal honesty: I kinda need the bolded to be true. I need the truly necessary, life-saving prep to not be worse (more disruptive) than the disease. I am actually not personally scared of catching COVID-19 -- despite the fact that I am in some trouble groups (overweight, untreated hypertension, male, pushing 50, have trouble shaking colds when I do get them, etc.). Kinda just want to catch the dam thing, have it run its course at home (hopefully), and then be done with it (hopefully).

Quote

 

But realistically, this virus is pretty tricky I think, a mask is only doing so much, its a bandaid to get you from here to there and everything I've head the priority is to not get other people sick.  You'd have to be phenomenally vigilant to keep it at bay if you're going out day to day in a  virus zone, disinfecting clothes, making sure you don't scratch your eye (and don't forget the goggles).  

If you're really concerned, try to minimize contact and stock up.  

 

Thinking the same thing about the masks. I've read many times that masks are (or should be) much more for the sick, and a lot less for the healthy walking out and about. But people are using masks as a preventative measure all the same, so :shrug:

Something else: will it ever get to the point in the U.S. where people have to be wearing a mask to go to the grocery and drugstore, etc.?

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12 minutes ago, adonis said:

I'd suspect the odds of transmitting this via open air in public is considerably lower than transmitting it by touching contaminated surfaces in public.  Like someone mentioned before...it seems more reasonable to wear gloves in public than masks.

If someone is in a packed subway - ok, maybe.  If you're in a huge crowd, sure masks would help.  But for the other 95% of folks just going out, using shopping carts, opening doors, handling money, etc...a virus stuck to your warm hand will live longer and wait for that opportunity to rub an eye, wipe a nose, touch a mouth...or get transmitted to another person in a hand shake or other contact.

Masks seem most useful for healthcare professionals, which has been their guidance thus far.

Absolutely. Social distancing (hi O! :)), and hygene (washing hands, not touching face or eyes) will be more than half the battle absent very dense situations like you described. 

People in major metropolitan areas like NYC/Chicago are far more at risk of being subject to widespread transmission. For those of us out in the Burbs or rural areas... day to day life will be a impacted to a lesser degree. This isn't radiation... It's not like you'll go to an open park and toss a football with a buddy and suddenly come down with the Virus. But going to grocery stores, work, school, etc... that's the higher risk stuff where PPE and hygene are important. 

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3 minutes ago, [icon] said:

3) The goal is to keep your home clear of contamination so you can live normally (as can be expected), and only needing to worry about PPE on the (hopefully) rare occasions you leave your home. 

To me, "PPE" means "full hazmat bodysuit" ... so it always jars to read it.

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1 minute ago, adonis said:

If she has a history, are there any medications she uses when sick?  Albuterol?  Other commonly used items?  

The absolute best thing anyone can do right now is ensure they have medicine supply for 30 days or so, as a disruption to necessary medicine would be dangerous.  Next up could be folks like your wife, who have occasional issues where they have go-to medicines in those situations, but don't get them until they need them.  If possible and not too costly, probably best to get some of that now to be prepared.

She did at one time but has since gone off all meds for breathing issues. More a product from moving from a valley that had little air movement and caused environmental allergies to aggravate her issues. It's a long story I don't care to get into here but I hear what you are saying. She's a stay-at-home type anyhow so it shouldn't be an issue to isolate if necessary.

Good point to everyone that is on maintenance medication. Make sure you have ample supply on hand.

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9 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Impressive plan.  I am wondering what the plan is if one or two of the 4-5 couples + kids come down with the virus?  

Quarantine within the house. Hope we caught it in time.

There are 6 bathrooms with 2 attached to jack and jill type setups upstairs. Lots of hard surfaces. Plastic sheeting over the doors. Bring them food/water/meds. Chat them up. Let them hang out and watch TV, play games, etc like we will be doing downstairs... just feeling a little more crappy while doing it. 

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

Something else: will it ever get to the point in the U.S. where people have to be wearing a mask to go to the grocery and drugstore, etc.?

I doubt it.

This isn't a zombie apocalyptic virus with a 99% mortality rate.  If that was the case, sure I could see society breaking down, people in fear for their lives every time they leave the house.

This is a virus with a significant, but not excessive mortality rate that increases with age.  Most folks will get through all of this just fine, at least 90% of all society.  That's not the makings for unraveling of social fabric.

The major issues here are disruptions to businesses, which ripple into supply chain issues, recession issues, local stock issues...and the impact on the healthcare industries that are simply not staffed for the volume of sick folks this is likely to present.  With the Flu, you have a virus that we try to mitigate with vaccines.  A significant portion of the at-risk population gets vaccinated yearly and significantly reduces the impact of that virus, which at its baseline is significantly less dangerous than the coronovirus.

The older you are, the more serious the risk.  Older people may end up putting on masks to go out for groceries, and I'd suggest wearing gloves too.  It's gonna be a tough ride for many older folks and again, society isn't set up for that kind of load right now.  Many of these folks are self-sufficient, expect to be able to find vacancies in hospitals or clinics when they get sick....it's gonna be rough if the virus hits full stride in the US.

But coming back to the original point - the vast majority of the US has little to worry about from direct exposure.  It's the secondary effects that will cause most of us the most problems - unless you or those in your family are in the at risk category...and then you have a different set of challenges to deal with.

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On top of a few masks I picked up at Lowes yesterday, I upgraded air filters in our home HVAC.  I had never really looked at the differences in the filters I just always bought the allergy fighting one (red label).  For about $6 more a filter you can go with the purple label and it claims to capture bacteria and viruses.  

Probably pointless, but I have so many kids running in and out of our house on a daily basis it can't hurt.  :shrug:

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2 minutes ago, Doug B said:

To me, "PPE" means "full hazmat bodysuit" ... so it always jars to read it.

I hear ya. I think the term is relative to the situation. For most mask/goggles and maybe nitrile gloves are plenty if they're forced into a risky environment. 

Yesterday I actually got a dozen disposable hooded Tyvek hazmat suits and two full face shields. I have zero expectations they'll be needed, but I was given them free (buddy works in Nuke decontamination) so they stored away. Almost certainly overkill but if it's for free, it's for me. 

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2 minutes ago, adonis said:

I doubt it.

This isn't a zombie apocalyptic virus with a 99% mortality rate.  If that was the case, sure I could see society breaking down, people in fear for their lives every time they leave the house.

This is a virus with a significant, but not excessive mortality rate that increases with age.  Most folks will get through all of this just fine, at least 90% of all society.  That's not the makings for unraveling of social fabric.

The major issues here are disruptions to businesses, which ripple into supply chain issues, recession issues, local stock issues...and the impact on the healthcare industries that are simply not staffed for the volume of sick folks this is likely to present.  With the Flu, you have a virus that we try to mitigate with vaccines.  A significant portion of the at-risk population gets vaccinated yearly and significantly reduces the impact of that virus, which at its baseline is significantly less dangerous than the coronovirus.

The older you are, the more serious the risk.  Older people may end up putting on masks to go out for groceries, and I'd suggest wearing gloves too.  It's gonna be a tough ride for many older folks and again, society isn't set up for that kind of load right now.  Many of these folks are self-sufficient, expect to be able to find vacancies in hospitals or clinics when they get sick....it's gonna be rough if the virus hits full stride in the US.

But coming back to the original point - the vast majority of the US has little to worry about from direct exposure.  It's the secondary effects that will cause most of us the most problems - unless you or those in your family are in the at risk category...and then you have a different set of challenges to deal with.

My two main concerns are my elderly relatives (so I'm vigilant about not wanting to bring my own sickness potentially to them) and the supply chain situation.  I'm in the burbs so I basically agree with you.  My concern also compounds to keeping them as healthy as possible so we don't have to go into any medical environments for the next 3 months lets hope, god willing nothing emergency related comes on.  But for small stuff and maintaience, checkups, that can wait at the moment.

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17 minutes ago, Brunell4MVP said:

Basic masks don't do anything other than:

1) keep a sick person from spreading the disease by minimizing airborne particles exiting their mouth 

2) keep you from touching your face, which moves germs from your hands to your mouth.

The only type of mask that is going to prevent airborne particles from getting into your system is an  n95 respirator, which is extremely uncomfortable to use.

Flu has still killed more people in 2020 than the coronavirus.  

Article from Feb 19th....   So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 75,000 illnesses and 2,000 deaths, primarily in mainland China. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has already caused an estimated 26 million illnesses, 250,000 hospitalizations and 14,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). 

 

really?  i hadn't heard this until now.  does everyone know about this?

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36 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

:lmao: on what grounds, are most of those no fault no questions asked policies?

Check Icon's response to my post, he seems to have more details.

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1 minute ago, [icon] said:

Yesterday I actually got a dozen disposable hooded Tyvek hazmat suits and two full face shields. I have zero expectations they'll be needed, but I was given them free (buddy works in Nuke decontamination) so they stored away. Almost certainly overkill but if it's for free, it's for me. 

Again ... your cohort (and anyone's cohort) shapes their mental stances regarding the coronavirus threat. Not a knock, just an observation.

Edited by Doug B

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Just now, joffer said:

really?  i hadn't heard this until now.  does everyone know about this?

Yes.  The relative severity of this season's flu is high compared to other years.  This flu is different that it hits old people really hard, and the death you get from this has to be excruciating.  

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2 minutes ago, [icon] said:

I hear ya. I think the term is relative to the situation. For most mask/goggles and maybe nitrile gloves are plenty if they're forced into a risky environment. 

Yesterday I actually got a dozen disposable hooded Tyvek hazmat suits and two full face shields. I have zero expectations they'll be needed, but I was given them free (buddy works in Nuke decontamination) so they stored away. Almost certainly overkill but if it's for free, it's for me. 

Free is cool :thumbup: Tyvek suits ain't cheap and I suspect they will be going up soon. I used to work in the environmental clean up industry, used to buy them by the semi load for our company. Over the years since I've often wished I woulda grabbed a few boxes. They come in handy working around the house.

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19 minutes ago, Doug B said:

 

1) Thinking the same thing about the masks. I've read many times that masks are (or should be) much more for the sick, and a lot less for the healthy walking out and about. But people are using masks as a preventative measure all the same, so :shrug:

2) Something else: will it ever get to the point in the U.S. where people have to be wearing a mask to go to the grocery and drugstore, etc.?

1) I'll answer 1 with a question... do you think doctors and nurses wear them while treating COVID patients because they (med staff) are sick. No. It's protection. 

2) Honestly, In most parts of the country, I cautiously optimistic masks will be spotty. I think in major metro areas that have open transmission, masks are going to be on anyone's face who doesn't want to get sick and can afford/get one. Too much risk in dense areas. 

We shall see how widespread it gets here. People equating public use of facemasks with the zombie apocalypse are poorly calibrated on this I think. You can want to avoid catching a cold/virus/bug in a crowded place, without it triggering collapse. Masks are a slight inconvenience but otherwise life can be carried on pretty normally. 

Edited by [icon]

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3 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Yes.  The relative severity of this season's flu is high compared to other years.

AIUI, the 2019 flu vaccine was largely a miss. It's always an educated guess of what strains to target, but this past year it missed.

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6 minutes ago, [icon] said:

1) I'll answer 1 with a question... do you think doctors and nurses wear them while treating COVID patients because they (med staff) are sick. No. It's protection. 

2) Honestly, In most parts of the country, I cautiously optimistic masks will be spotty. I think in major metro areas that have open transmission, masks are going to be on anyone's face who doesn't want to get sick and can afford/get one. Too much risk in dense areas. 

We shall see how widespread it gets here. People equating public use of facemasks with the zombie apocalypse are poorly calibrated on this I think. You can want to avoid catching a cold/virus/bug in a crowded place, without it triggering collapse. Masks are a slight inconvenience but otherwise life can be carried on pretty normally. 

Didn’t read the whole thread. What masks should we be buying?  

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Thinking out loud here.

  • Situation: Family sheltering in place, someone gets sick.  3 others are healthy.
  • To provide care to a child that's going to take some direct interaction.  (It's highly likely the caretaker gets it)
  • You are going to need to have a secondary quarantine for the caretaker, can't assume you can simply mask up and not get it (See: Wuhan)
  • This person should be considered carefully.  Ideally most healthy <50 person.  
  • Once the child or person has cleared the virus the caretaker takes the quarantine spot.
  • Care seems at this time needs to be taken to watch for exposure post recovery, it seems at least 7 days of post recovery isolation is suggested and perhaps 14 days of constant mask wear post recovery is advised.  
  • Quarantine and recovery locations can and likely should be outdoors.  Outdoor locations may in fact be ideal to kill droplets
  • If you have someone 60+ or compromised in the house while dealing with this, some thought should be made to moving them outside the same airflow zone.  Tape off vents and use windows.  etc.

poke holes

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Just now, Nick Vermeil said:

Didn’t read the whole thread. What masks should we be buying?  

I recommend these...

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