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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (10 Viewers)

gump said:
Re wearing gloves in stores...

A co-worker is now on Day 11 of trying to heal chemical burns from a spray that Whole Foods was using on carts.  Gloves possibly could have helped.
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Sounds like an employee was using absolutely the wrong kind of spray on the carts. Might have grabbed something caustic instead of the proper disinfectant.

 
NotSmart said:
Oof.

I wonder how long their wet markets have been like that.

If the answer is a long time, it's a little surprising they haven't generated more novel CVs than they have already.
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Since about 1500 BC I think plus or minus 100 years  :loco: It's a way of life for them.

And I agree, no clue how we don't do this every year with the stuff they eat.

 
CurlyNight said:
Pence on CNN. Just said we all need to practice what we're doing and thinks memorial day weekend/June we'll see a good decline. I take it as stay at home will go to min June. 
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I'm glad to see them taking this seriously. 6-8 weeks of excellent social distancing should pretty much take care of this first wave.  Hopefully in the next 2-3 months someone can work out rapid testing and a team of contact tracing folks for wave 2.  

 
NotSmart said:
Oof.

I wonder how long their wet markets have been like that.

If the answer is a long time, it's a little surprising they haven't generated more novel CVs than they have already.
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Seeing live animals in cages especially pets like dogs killed me. They don't put anything on ice. It's on tables some with blood on them. Dead snakes, some cut, rats and bats was the grossest imo. I got my horror film fix.  :jawdrop:

 
My uncle in Spain tested positive with the virus a little over a week ago. He’s 75 years old with no other medical issues. He was hit with the typical symptoms. Started with fever and an unrelenting cough. He went to the hospital when he started to experience extreme shortness of breath. He went to one of the smaller hospitals in the suburbs of Madrid and has been there for  a week now. 

He just let us know that he has recovered and now is home. What a relief!!! 

 
shader said:
I'm glad to see them taking this seriously. 6-8 weeks of excellent social distancing should pretty much take care of this first wave.  Hopefully in the next 2-3 months someone can work out rapid testing and a team of contact tracing folks for wave 2.  
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He's hoping before the second wave treatments will be available. 

 
CurlyNight said:
Seeing live animals in cages especially pets like dogs killed me. They don't put anything on ice. It's on tables some with blood on them. Dead snakes, some cut, rats and bats was the grossest imo. I got my horror film fix.  :jawdrop:
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Yeah, I watched a video posted here early in the thread. Absolute horror. I wanted to show my wife but once they got to the animals in cages I knew that wasn't happening. Disgusting. 

 
I think depression is going to be a real problem over the next few weeks.  Quarantine was fun for a week or two, especially for introverts.  But we are soon going to move into a phase where people start to lose it. 

Please get outside, walk, (stay away from people) and do everything you can to keep your sanity.  We have an annoying cool snap that ends today where I live but I plan on spending as much of the springtime outside in my back yard as I possibly can.

 
dickey moe said:
Lol @ casting blame largely where blame is due and characterizing it as "partisan politics." This isn't a D vs. R debate. China misled the world for weeks if not months and now the world is paying the price. Put us on ignore if you don't want to read it.
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It is just as much on us, if not more on us,  as China. Yes, China lied and is still lying but they didn't prevent us from preparing. They didn't tie our hands. It wasn't like we were blind to what was happening in Europe or Iran. If China didn't exist, and we just saw what was happening to Europe and Iran, we still would've had time. That is on us, not anyone else.

 
JaxBill said:
Yes. I agree. It should have been done last week.

But to play devil's advocate,  what would it change?  I guess the first thing is it would force the deniers to take it seriously. Maybe a few customer driven businesses would shut down. 
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Not going to impact a lot of the people doing the right thing, but there is still a sizable population still not doing the right thing (see the Duval/St John's beach pics from the weekend).  It's a harder nudge IMO.

 
Redwes25 said:
:no:   Cases up again from a few days at 4k.  I was hoping more days at 4k or down.    
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It's a huge pain to get rid of this virus but hopefully this is just a temporary uptick.  The good thing is that even with this uptick, 4782 on 110k is much better.  Their doubling time is now what, 20-21 days and falling?  Not bad.

 
bradyfan said:
NY Times: The Ecology of Disease - by Tim Robbins, July 14, 2012
THERE’S a term biologists and economists use these days — ecosystem services — which refers to the many ways nature supports the human endeavor. Forests filter the water we drink, for example, and birds and bees pollinate crops, both of which have substantial economic as well as biological value.

If we fail to understand and take care of the natural world, it can cause a breakdown of these systems and come back to haunt us in ways we know little about. A critical example is a developing model of infectious disease that shows that most epidemics — AIDS, Ebola, West Nile, SARS, Lyme disease and hundreds more that have occurred over the last several decades — don’t just happen. They are a result of things people do to nature...
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Smallpox, influenza, plagues brought by conquistadors that wiped out native populations in the New World? The list of infectious diseases goes on and on throughout history that have to do with introduction of agents and incapacity to resistance rather than jumps from nature when treated wrongly...

This doesn't seem like a thread to argue in, though. I'm just not sure what the premise of his is...it seems like a very quick and not-too distant jog to humans as virus theory, a la the Matrix. 

 
beer 30 said:
NotSmart said:
Oof.

I wonder how long their wet markets have been like that.

If the answer is a long time, it's a little surprising they haven't generated more novel CVs than they have already.
Click to expand...
Since about 1500 BC I think plus or minus 100 years  :loco: It's a way of life for them.

And I agree, no clue how we don't do this every year with the stuff they eat.
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The dangerous stuff (rare and exotic animals) is fairly recent (last 50 years or so) but the wet markets in general are ancient and widespread. One of the reason I was skeptical when they announced they closed all the wet markets. Just not possible. I'll see if I can find a video and post it that covers the rise of the exotic animals. part of it was driven by food shortages and the ease of farming some animals, and part of it was driven by China's new wealthy class wanting status symbols meals.

ETA found the video LINK

 
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NotSmart said:
Oof.

I wonder how long their wet markets have been like that.

If the answer is a long time, it's a little surprising they haven't generated more novel CVs than they have already.
Click to expand...
Oh, they are brewing up new ones all the time. Disgusting place. What is wrong with those people?

 
CurlyNight said:
I watched a bunch of videos on the wet markets in China on YouTube last night. One gal who lives there says with the older generation there is no hygiene. They think water kills everything. 
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I always wondered if the scene at the end of Contagion was legit where the dude is hacking up a pig and just wipes his hands on his apron before holding hands with Paltrow.  Thought it was kind of "made for TV" but maybe that's how they operate.  Eww!

 
rcam said:
It is just as much on us, if not more on us,  as China. Yes, China lied and is still lying but they didn't prevent us from preparing. They didn't tie our hands. It wasn't like we were blind to what was happening in Europe or Iran. If China didn't exist, and we just saw what was happening to Europe and Iran, we still would've had time. That is on us, not anyone else.
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I think it's perfectly reasonable to simultaneously believe the U.S. should have been more prepared and cast blame where appropriate, while also being mad at China for what was clearly a huge coverup that had implications for the global health situation.

 
thecatch said:
I think it's perfectly reasonable to simultaneously believe the U.S. should have been more prepared and cast blame where appropriate, while also being mad at China for what was clearly a huge coverup that had implications for the global health situation.
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Excellent post.  Imo, it's not an either/or thing.  I think it's pretty clear the world was not prepared.  Can we leave it at that?  I hope so.  Opinions like yours are what's needed if people are going to do that.  

 
shader said:
It's a huge pain to get rid of this virus but hopefully this is just a temporary uptick.  The good thing is that even with this uptick, 4782 on 110k is much better.  Their doubling time is now what, 20-21 days and falling?  Not bad.
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I hope you are right and flat cases is so much better then exponential growth.  I am just hoping for better since I think it is a window into the future for us.  

 
JaxBill said:
Yeah, basically. 

The list of essentials is quite long and includes gun dealers and pool cleaning services 

@jaxdotcom: #breaking Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry says he is issuing a Safer At Home Executive Order mandating that the city’s residents remain at home except for critical and essential needs. Here's what you need to know.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200401/coronavirus-jacksonville-mayor-announces-safer-at-home-executive-order-to-slow-viruss-spread?nocache=1&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ghf-jax-main
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One exception in Jacksonville is Adult Day Care. In Miami Dade County, the mayor just shut them down starting Friday.  It's a valuable service, but there's definitely a risk for COVID-19 spread. 

 
News from Michigan

Henry Ford Health System uses hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 symptoms, says benefits outweigh risks

“What we know about the drug now is that it does reduce viral shedding, you know, the amount of virus a person has, it’s lower. There have been studies from China to show that patients have shorter hospitalizations, fewer complications, lower likelihood of progression.”

He’s quick to mention, however that hydroxychloroquine is not the end-all-be-all or a miracle cure: doctors are using it because they think the benefits outweigh the risks. 

-------------

Zervos also mentioned the use of hydroxychloroquine in combination with the drug azithromycin and the antibiotic doxycycline.

“One of the reasons that the virus can be so deadly is it activates the immune system, there’s an overreaction of the immune system, and the azithromycin might also help to reduce some of that overactivity of the immune system which is another mechanism by which the hydroxychloroquine works."
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jamny said:
Yeah, I watched a video posted here early in the thread. Absolute horror. I wanted to show my wife but once they got to the animals in cages I knew that wasn't happening. Disgusting. 
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I averted my eyes in those shots. I can easily watch any scary or horror film without a problem but this is another animal. 

 
Good news from California

Doctors see flatter curve after 2 weeks of social isolation

State leaders and doctors are cautiously optimistic that the Bay Area's early moves to lock down residents two weeks ago have prevented surges of coronavirus patients from overwhelming the region's health care capacity thus far.

After 14 days — the outermost period at which symptoms are believed to emerge post-infection — doctors at area hospitals are now reporting fewer cases than they expected to see at this point, and officials credit the lockdown with stemming the tide of patients they feared would flood into emergency rooms.

Health officials across the nation are eyeing the Bay Area as a bellwether to determine the effects of social distancing, since the region's policies were replicated in various states and cities in subsequent days.
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shader said:
I think depression is going to be a real problem over the next few weeks.  Quarantine was fun for a week or two, especially for introverts.  But we are soon going to move into a phase where people start to lose it. 

Please get outside, walk, (stay away from people) and do everything you can to keep your sanity.  We have an annoying cool snap that ends today where I live but I plan on spending as much of the springtime outside in my back yard as I possibly can.
Click to expand...
Yeah...I can see that for some.  Been working in regular time for my kids outside and making sure my wife gets out for a walk or to take our son for "driving lessons" in a local school parking lot.  We get out and walk some...I have been running, walking, or biking just about every day since this all started.  For multiple reasons.  An hour out of the house on my own...its my time.  Clears my head to reset and everything.  Used to enjoy this when I was into running more and got away from it for a while (and that is when anxiety issues and others were setting in as well...this has definitely helped again).  Also, being in the more higher risk categories with hereditary heart issues and asthma...Im making sure if I do catch this thing, Im in as good of shape as I can be to help my body fight it.

 
From Dr. Fauci's editorial in the New England Journal of Medicine (3/26/20)

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted

If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.
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See also: Estimates of the severity of coronavirus disease 2019: a model-based analysis

 
Probably a silly question but how does the virus get in through your eyes?

I understand the nose and mouth as a direct access to your lungs.

 
My wife's grandfather had Parkinsons for about a decade before he passed away a few years ago.  He used to have essentially 24-hour home-care nurses who would rotate shifts.  One of the nurses was a man who's probably in his 60s now.  We just found out that's he's hospitalized with the virus, and his wife just died from it in the last 24 hours.  Awful.

 
shader said:
I think depression is going to be a real problem over the next few weeks.  Quarantine was fun for a week or two, especially for introverts.  But we are soon going to move into a phase where people start to lose it. 

Please get outside, walk, (stay away from people) and do everything you can to keep your sanity.  We have an annoying cool snap that ends today where I live but I plan on spending as much of the springtime outside in my back yard as I possibly can.
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Came across this article recently that I think can help a lot of people experiencing this.

 
shader said:
I'm glad to see them taking this seriously. 6-8 weeks of excellent social distancing should pretty much take care of this first wave.  Hopefully in the next 2-3 months someone can work out rapid testing and a team of contact tracing folks for wave 2.  
Click to expand...
I wonder how/if that will work in practice though. It seems like something the feds will leave to the states or assume the states will do it. Then we still have 50 piecemeal approaches with varying levels of implementation that greatly hinders the success of a necessary top down universal approach.

 
Steve Tasker said:
My wife's grandfather had Parkinsons for about a decade before he passed away a few years ago.  He used to have essentially 24-hour home-care nurses who would rotate shifts.  One of the nurses was a man who's probably in his 60s now.  We just found out that's he's hospitalized with the virus, and his wife just died from it in the last 24 hours.  Awful.
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I'm very sorry to hear this, Pedro.

 
Ilov80s said:
Is this the end of the anti-vaxxers?
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We thought the end of the anti-vaxxers were smallpox, measles, and mumps.

There's very little you can do with the religiosity of the uncaring. I can guarantee you that even when there's a vaccine, there will be people that refuse the vaccine. They can't be forced to be inoculated by the State.

https://www.npr.org/2011/04/05/135121451/how-the-pox-epidemic-changed-vaccination-rules

And there are reasons for that, as often the good intentions of public health officials see the thrust of their campaigns foisted upon the poor and powerless, mostly immigrant and minority populations.

 
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Anyone found a good comfortable mask that works well and doesn't make you hot and is breathable? Link?

For men

 
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tangfoot said:
I'm very sorry to hear this, Pedro.
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I only met the guy a handful of times, but obviously it's a pretty sad situation.  I have a feeling we're about to get hit pretty hard in Buffalo, this is the week where #### starts to get real.

The Buffalo News posted this article yesterday, basically a long-from interview article with an anesthesiologist.  Apparently we now have a dedicated Covid floor for patients at the only Level 1 trauma center in the region.  As of last week, there were 0 patients, now there are 33 and counting.  The comments from the doctor, while not new from what plenty of doctors are saying, are pretty sobering:

Friday was his first shift on ECMC’s “Covid floor,” which has existed for only about a week on the hospital's 12th floor.

“I was not prepared for what I saw,” said Jensen, who sat down at home – shaken – and sent a text to a close friend that explained with raw emotion why he felt so stunned.

The friend transformed it into a Facebook post without using the doctor's name, a text that Jensen said has now been seen or shared thousands of times.

“These were the sickest patients I have ever cared for in 25 years of doing this medicine thing,” wrote Jensen, 49, a medical school graduate from the University at Buffalo who has spent his entire life in Western New York. “The whole floor was full of sick people and absolutely shell-shocked staff.”

On duty, he wore a surgical gown above his clothes, along with latex gloves and an N95 respirator — the kind that is increasingly precious in a state closing in on 60,000 confirmed cases of Covid-19, most in metropolitan New York City. Walking along that floor, surrounded by nurses, physicians and support staff for whom he has tremendous love and respect, Jensen felt an emotion in the air he has never sensed so keenly before.

Fear.

There is a shared awareness among his colleagues, he said, “that these people are sick from something that can make us all sick,” and the alarm he picked up from others on the staff was about something far beyond themselves.

It involves anxiety about what could happen to patients at the hospital if too many nurses and doctors were to become sick, as well as the knowledge of exactly what staff members might potentially carry home to those they love.

“You can read about this, you can see it on TV, but you’ve got to feel it to understand it,” Jensen said.
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bradyfan said:
oh no 😢

Coronavirus financial losses prompt Boston Medical Center to furlough 700 employees, 10% of hospital’s workforce Link
Boston: Beth Israel CEO, two dozen execs take pay cuts Link

Alteon Health, a staffing company backed by private-equity firm Frazier Healthcare Partners, will cut salaries, time off and retirement benefits for providers, citing lost revenue. Several hospital operators announced similar cuts. Link

Intermountain will cut pay for doctors and nurse practitioners amid coronavirus pandemic Link

Already Taxed Health Care Workers Not ‘Immune’ From Layoffs And Less Pay Link
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This is ridiculous. Take on more debt, anything but hit the providers right now. 😡

 
bradyfan said:
TheAtlantic: Large-Scale Disinfection Efforts Against Coronavirus 
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In this article, pics #5 & more like #14 are similar to what I was talking about earlier, atomizing the solution then blasting it out with a high cfm fan. Those pictures of the folks taking a shot to the face with whatever they were using is kinda scary. There is a reason why the guys spraying the stuff are decked out in full gear, these solutions don't tend to interact well with humans.

Someone mentioned above, there are going to be longer term effects from this we will see down the road. They are already seeing a spike in animal deaths from this from the other article @bradyfan posted. 

 
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