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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (21 Viewers)

Morton Muffley said:
Please don't misquote by reading and the writing in exclamation points where they don't exist.  I'll assume that was an accident and will accept an apology.  Nor did I write nor do I believe this is an exctinction event.  Please do not create strawmen to argue against - it's exemplary of weak debate strategy.  

As for your second statement, there is absolutely NO guarantee that either will happen.  No one knows whether are vaccine is possible. Some epidemiologists are hopeful while others are more pessimistic.  Herd immunity would come at substantial economic cost also.  Do you really think that sending everyone back to work means that people will start flying again?  Travelling for vacation? Going to sports? Movies? Dinner?  Do you think everyone is doing this because they are following governmental orders?  Several silicon valley companies sent all their people into work-from-home mode BEFORE any state or federal stay-at-home advisories.  You think those companies are going to lift their policies in this environment.  Do you they want this running through their offices filled with their best-and-brightest?  

Lastly, yes we ARE prolonging the spreading...that's the whole GD point!  Per my previous post, Hammer now then Dance.    
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:lmao: . You used full caps. But please do tell what you meant by saying this is our last hope. 

J&J are pretty confident they will have a vaccine ready for next year. 

Yes, I fully intend to be on an exotic beach in November, like every November, whether the covid makes a winter comeback or not. 

 
So Trump is setting this all up to be able to blame the scientists for the ####ty economy.

He is clearly reluctant to shut anything down in a meaningful way.  And he'll likely come out of this blaming Fauci and other scientists who admonished him to shut the economy down.

Instead of accepting responsibility, inevitably he'll point fingers of blame.

 
Some of these numbers have just started really sink in with me the last week.   I believe we could be looking at a whole lot more deaths (than Covid 19) from other issues a strong government provides that it may not be able to deal with in one or two years from now of shelter in place, if that has to continue.  Not trying to be a doomsayer or negative Nelly, but this could have more significant catastrophic affects on each country in the world than most of us dream...including the US.

 
adonis said:
So Trump is setting this all up to be able to blame the scientists for the ####ty economy.

He is clearly reluctant to shut anything down in a meaningful way.  And he'll likely come out of this blaming Fauci and other scientists who admonished him to shut the economy down.

Instead of accepting responsibility, inevitably he'll point fingers of blame.
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Please take the crap to any of dozens threads here...https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/forum/49-the-politics-forum/

 
adonis said:
Moises Alou said:
adonis said:
I'd like your reply because it represents what you think.

I guarantee you a non-heated reply.  I may come back with other questions though.

What happens with millions of deaths to our economy?
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I've signed an NDA on a contingency analysis I've done, so I can't get too deep.  There are short term and long term impacts, both positive and negative.
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What nonsense.  I thought you had some compelling perspective to share but instead you come with NDA ridiculousness.
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I understand your reaction but I still had to chuckle at this.

 
adonis said:
So Trump is setting this all up to be able to blame the scientists for the ####ty economy.

He is clearly reluctant to shut anything down in a meaningful way.  And he'll likely come out of this blaming Fauci and other scientists who admonished him to shut the economy down.

Instead of accepting responsibility, inevitably he'll point fingers of blame.
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For the love of all that is good.  Put the Trump/politics in the other thousand threads in the PSF.  This has nothing to do with the facts,  information, thoughts, or opinions that are expected in this thread.

PLEASE

 
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BassNBrew said:
Please take the crap to any of dozens threads here...https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/forum/49-the-politics-forum/
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I understand we want to keep politics out of it, but here are his comments. https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1246552789381242883?s=20

In his description of wanting to consider whether to open up services for Easter, outside, he presents other folks as making an alternative decision.  

Again, politics or not, Trump is the leader in this time of crisis and pandemic.  If he is painting others as the decision makers in this, I think that's a potential problem.

However, I think it's a healthy decision to discuss what the downsides are, and upsides, to opening things up early.  To opening them up fully...or in part.  We should be discussing the options on the table, and the pros and cons, rather than just screaming down anyone with an alternate view.

At the same time, those in charge of the government, should own their decisions.

 
I'm choosing to believe that work that is being done on antivirals will have good success by the fall. Ramp up production of that, keep working on building supplies of PPE, ventilators, etc and slowly open things back up. It's not possible to lock things down for 18 months until a vaccine. We'll have to develop new rules for interactions in the wild but we'll get through this over the next couple of years. There will be pain but we will do it. 

 
Ksquared said:
Waiver Wire - I think you are correct that any type of travel in the next year is not likely to happen for the reasons you mentioned.  Also, at some point in the next 6-8 months when there is still very limited demand for traveling, I envision significant business people in travel locations will close permanently.  I am becoming more depressed about what the future of this country and world will look like in 2 years.
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I wonder if we are in the majority or minority in this way of thinking 
definitely a lot of local and travel business will not survive any type of shutdown
if this type of lockdown continues through the summer , even more will go out of business and there as been a lot of help offered by our governments here in Canada 
 

 
NorvilleBarnes said:
I understand your reaction but I still had to chuckle at this.
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I can appreciate this reply.  I also wonder if I could follow through on that guarantee.

I think I could though.  I"m honestly curious as to the views of those who oppose the shutdown.  I get it.  It's bad.  But what's the alternative, and how is it not worse?  

Was reading some tweets from Scott Adams today, where one was (likely joking) saying "#### your grandma" in response to the economy needing to be shut down in order to protect her.  (He was summarizing someone elses comment, but it was hard to tell his views on it)

Really just want to hear some alternative views.

 
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adonis said:
I understand we want to keep politics out of it, but here are his comments. https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1246552789381242883?s=20

In his description of wanting to consider whether to open up services for Easter, outside, he presents other folks as making an alternative decision.  

Again, politics or not, Trump is the leader in this time of crisis and pandemic.  If he is painting others as the decision makers in this, I think that's a potential problem.

However, I think it's a healthy decision to discuss what the downsides are, and upsides, to opening things up early.  To opening them up fully...or in part.  We should be discussing the options on the table, and the pros and cons, rather than just screaming down anyone with an alternate view.

At the same time, those in charge of the government, should own their decisions.
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Just stick to your views in this thread.  

If I care about his comments, I would watch his presser or go to the PSF to read about them.

 
tonydead said:
:lmao: . You used full caps. But please do tell what you meant by saying this is our last hope. 

J&J are pretty confident they will have a vaccine ready for next year. 

Yes, I fully intend to be on an exotic beach in November, like every November, whether the covid makes a winter comeback or not. 
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I capitalized LAST and BEST.  Y'know to add emphasis to...wait for it..."last" and "best"

My post was all about the ORDER of things.  That is why I chose to capitalize those words.  I'm sorry you are incapable of admitting a mistake and instead decided to double up with the laughing emoji.

 
adonis said:
I can appreciate this reply.  I also wonder if I could follow through on that guarantee.

I think I could though.  I"m honestly curious as to the views of those who oppose the shutdown.  I get it.  It's bad.  But what's the alternative, and how is it not worse?  

Was reading some tweets from Scott Adams today, where one was (likely joking) saying "#### your grandma" in response to the economy needing to be shut down in order to protect her.

Really just want to hear some alternative views.
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A lot of the younger crowd I interface with kind of feel this way and then go further talking about the benefits of not having to pay (gov't funds) to support grandma.  It's kind of scary IMO.

 
BassNBrew said:
Just stick to your views in this thread.  

If I care about his comments, I would watch his presser or go to the PSF to read about them.
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Definitely don't want to turn the FFA into the PSF cesspool, but to some degree Trump's comments on the coronvavirus and how seriously he's taking it seems relevant to this thread, no?  If he's considering, or pushing back against experts to open up church services for Easter, that seems relevant to Covid-19.  I should keep my editorialization to a minimum though, but simply saying this seems like a bad idea would be sufficient - no?

 
BassNBrew said:
A lot of the younger crowd I interface with kind of feel this way and then go further talking about the benefits of not having to pay (gov't funds) to support grandma.  It's kind of scary IMO.
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Agreed.

That's why I'm curious as to the views of those who think the economy should be opened again full throttle.  Let folks decide for themselves if they're hermits for a year, or fully engaged in the workforce, or somewhere inbetween.

To me, I see one outcome of this and it's pretty terrible.  For others, I think they see a shinier outcome.  I'd be curious to hear the optimistic view.

I'm not sure there's a person out there who wouldn't prefer things to go back to normal ASAP.  But what are those costs?

I'm trying to sell a house in one city and buy another.  That was the plan.  But now...who the hell knows?  I'm in a city that relies on an industry very hard hit from this downturn.  Housing prices to plummet?  SHould we just rent in the new city?  What about our job stability, me and the wife.  3 kids in school - what about them?

Hell, I'm happy to entertain ideas about getting things back to normal soon.  I'd love it.  But tell me the price and be honest about it.

 
Remember that map showing the states that weren't doing a good job of staying at home on March 27?

Here's a list of states that had under 10% new cases today per worldometer:

NY, Washington, GA, Conn, CO, TN, NC, MO WI, AL Miss, KY, Minn, Ark, NM, Maine, HI, Montana, ND

 
adonis said:
Definitely don't want to turn the FFA into the PSF cesspool, but to some degree Trump's comments on the coronvavirus and how seriously he's taking it seems relevant to this thread, no?  If he's considering, or pushing back against experts to open up church services for Easter, that seems relevant to Covid-19.  I should keep my editorialization to a minimum though, but simply saying this seems like a bad idea would be sufficient - no?
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Yup.  Just leave his name out of it.....

There's talk of opening up things by Easter coming certain gov't people.  I don't agree with that.

 
Without a huge decrease in cases and deaths, good luck getting me to leave my dining room table.  If you could have a St. Paddy's Day type celebration tonight in your local pub, would  you want to go?  Baseball tickets with 40K other fans next weekend?  I honestly am not sure what I would need to see feel comfortable in a restaurant with a group of 20 for a birthday party.  This sucks.

 
Ugh.   

These #justletmegetitbro types of posts are just as bad as justaflubro  .  If only there was a way to quarantine these people in a state together and let them have at it.   

Like moops said, it's a few months - and sure, it could be longer.   We will get through it, and we will figure out the economy.  Just odd that I thought we wouldn't be ready for the psychological effects of having 1000s and 1000s of people die in a short order from this.  Turns out the real problem for people is they can't take one for the team, stay the F at home, and watch some Netflix.   Or, maybe read a book, learn a language, catch up on rest, clean the house, play with your kids, bang your wife, etc., etc..  

 
BassNBrew said:
Yup.  Just leave his name out of it.....

There's talk of opening up things by Easter coming certain gov't people.  I don't agree with that.
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Those people seem to be prioritizing the concept of the economy returning to normal asap over the lives of America's citizens.  

What is the break-even point between losses of human lives to economic losses?

 
I'm fully on board with the science and all.  But I don't see a way out.  

We'll flatten the curve for the next several months, huge economic impacts...what's the endgame?  Where's the contact tracing, ramping up of testing.  Where are the apps to help monitor this situation successfully and get people back to work.?

I feel like the epidemiologists are winning today.  They've scared the political leadership into acting, into shutting things down.  But CLEARLY the leadership is getting antsy with the economic destruction that is happening and they're anxious to get things going again.

In the push and pull between the two factions, what I don't see is any reasonable plan to return to normal.  either it's a prolonged period of hiding from the virus until a vaccine or effective treatment comes out, or we just open it all up and have huge casualties. 

Where is the leadership pushing us towards a reasonable middle ground?

 
adonis said:
Agreed.

That's why I'm curious as to the views of those who think the economy should be opened again full throttle.  Let folks decide for themselves if they're hermits for a year, or fully engaged in the workforce, or somewhere inbetween.

To me, I see one outcome of this and it's pretty terrible.  For others, I think they see a shinier outcome.  I'd be curious to hear the optimistic view.

I'm not sure there's a person out there who wouldn't prefer things to go back to normal ASAP.  But what are those costs?

I'm trying to sell a house in one city and buy another.  That was the plan.  But now...who the hell knows?  I'm in a city that relies on an industry very hard hit from this downturn.  Housing prices to plummet?  SHould we just rent in the new city?  What about our job stability, me and the wife.  3 kids in school - what about them?

Hell, I'm happy to entertain ideas about getting things back to normal soon.  I'd love it.  But tell me the price and be honest about it.
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Personally I don't think we have the facts to make a decision.  It would be awesome if China was forthcoming and we could rely on their data.  The problem is we don't know how many people have been infected.  If we knew that, we could make some sound decisions.  Some here have made the argument that 10% of us already have had this.  I read an article today where Italy did some testing and 70% were shown to have had it.  I can't argue with those people.  

I'm beginning to think herd immunity is the only route out of this.  Maybe we should be isolating all people 65 and over and compromised people.  Send all people 25 and under living alone back to work and then every 2 weeks bump that up that up 5 years.  If we could have this virus blow through the younger people, we could save the economy.

 
Moises Alou said:
If people were willing to work through a hurricane, and people were willing to "consume" during a hurricane, it's logical that the economy would generate more revenue than if everyone climbed into a panic room for 12 months until a cure for the hurricane came.
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People would evacuate even if the government didn't order one. The economy is going to take a HUGE hit even if government tells people to stay put and keep working. They won't. 

 
I get that everyone is anxious/nervous/fearful/going through hell right now, and I don't want to add to the white noise this is becoming, but:

IF YOU WANT TO POST ABOUT TRUMP OR THE GOVERNMENT REACTION OR THE ECONOMIC FALLOUT TO THIS PANDEMIC, USE THE OTHER THREADS!

In here, we've been talking about the quarantine, the numbers as they come out, general news about treatments and how to protect ourselves.

 
What are the quarantine requirements for someone who's tested positive?  A friend was tested on 3/24 and the result on 3/30 was +ve.  She thinks there was an 8-day quarantine which seems way too low to me.  I think a 14-day quarantine after no symptoms is correct but I'm not sure.  Anyone know?  I don't want her infecting others.

 
Laparoscopic procedures cancelled because the air that can escape and the aerosol effect isn't known. So procedures are going back to more invasive techniques.

 
I don't understand why people are apparently choosing the economy over people's lives. Yes, the economy is going to suffer in a big way because of this, it might even be worse than the Great Depression for a while, but no money in the world is worth exchanging human lives for. We'll all have to make changes, whether we like it or not, but this is not a time to think about jumpstarting the economy. That can wait.

 
Kal El said:
I don't understand why people are apparently choosing the economy over people's lives. Yes, the economy is going to suffer in a big way because of this, it might even be worse than the Great Depression for a while, but no money in the world is worth exchanging human lives for. We'll all have to make changes, whether we like it or not, but this is not a time to think about jumpstarting the economy. That can wait.
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At some point, more deaths will be caused by an economy in depression than from COVID-19.  We are nowhere close yet but that's the point where we need to choose economy over virus IMO.

 
adonis said:
Definitely don't want to turn the FFA into the PSF cesspool, but to some degree Trump's comments on the coronvavirus and how seriously he's taking it seems relevant to this thread, no?
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No. Not this thread.

Side note since you mentioned Scott Adams - agree he is certainly worth following on Twitter. Whether or not you agree with him, he always has interesting takes.

 
chet said:
At some point, more deaths will be caused by an economy in depression than from COVID-19.  We are nowhere close yet but that's the point where we need to choose economy over virus IMO.
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Yeah it seems too many people equate a bad economy to your 401k losing value or something.  If the economy literally falls apart, far more people will die.

Supply chain is a great example.  If that crashes, the fallout will be significantly worse than anything the corona-virus would directly do. 

 
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