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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (8 Viewers)

[Terminalxylem’s] providing valuable info, way more than 99.9% of this thread. If he’s coming off as an elitist it’s probably because he knows more than you about this. 
I have hesitated to make this point, but believe it to be true deep down:

This pandemic is unusual among public matters in that valuable discourse about it will only come from a very narrow set of perspectives and knowledge bases that are largely in line with one another. There is not a wide spectrum of more or less equally valid opinions on the pandemic.

 
and hey terminalxyz i think i speak for most of here when i say thank you for everything you are doing we all hope you are staying safe and we appreciate it a great deal that you take the time to give us 
And yet you didn't even give him any banking recommendations. No Bromigo. Not even a brohan?
he is a brohan thats for damned sure and you can take that to the bank all day long and twice because its sunday 

 
I have hesitated to make this point, but believe it to be true deep down:

This pandemic is unusual among public matters in that valuable discourse about it will only come from a very narrow set of perspectives and knowledge bases that are largely in line with one another. There is not a wide spectrum of more or less equally valid opinions on the pandemic.
Wait.... You're telling me the 5G corona towers aren't coming to steal Bill Gates poisoned vaccines?

 
You do know that you can disagree with him without name calling or insulting.

We aren't supposed to attack the poster in these forums.  Why not point out specifically what you disagree with in his post if that's your opinion and share some links if you have facts that refute him.  Telling someone they are coming across very bad isn't going to promote discussion.  Ditto with telling them to settle down.

Just do a reset and tell us your opinion.  I'm interested in hearing it.
Not worth it at this point.  The clique is piling on.

And it wasn't something in particular that I disagreed with, I just thought the way of he was expressing his thoughts was coming across in a very unhelpful manner (calling people ####### selfish, quoting a bible verse to try to prove "few" could be as construed as many as eight, etc.)

 
I gotta be honest; golf is one of those activities that should theoretically ok to leave open if the people playing it would be responsible and take careful measures (one per cart, don't pull the flag, don't congregate).   Unfortunately, in my experience, I'm not confident the folks playing golf would be the ones to be extra careful there.  My Dad is in his low 80s and really needs golf in the Spring/Summer/Fall for his mental health.  But, I'm awfully uneasy the old farts at the course would do the right things. :doh:
I see a few responses in this thread about golf, so I guess there's a sort of smattering of opinions already.

But I'm seriously considering going to City Park to walk 9. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Bad idea, dumb, good idea? I might have to purchase at a window, but otherwise by myself, light bag, no cart. Good idea, bad idea?

 
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Yesterday I walked down an empty Broadway in Soho at lunchtime. Think I heard a clock ticking.
My last working day in Midtown was October 15th. I worked on the corner of 39th and 8th. Before that 34th and 5th (not ESB).

The last couple of days I took extra long lunches and walked around all the areas that I'd miss; Times Square, Bryant Park, the view of the MetLife Building and GCT up Park, Madison Square.
It must be unrecognizable now. The line to get to the top of the ESB should be stretched past that awful Sbarro. Times Square would be shoulder to shoulder with tourists debating Bubba Gump or Hard Rock. Every disaster movie in any phase of production should be begging the City to get in, if just for atmosphere shots.

NYC bounced back from 9/11 and will bounce back from this, but it makes me awfully sad to think about the best city on earth these days.

 
I see a few responses in this thread about golf, so I guess there's a sort of smattering of opinions already.

But I'm seriously considering going to City Park to walk 9. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Bad idea, dumb, good idea? I might have to purchase at a window, but otherwise by myself, light bag, no cart. Good idea, bad idea?
Is the course open? Seems fine, but if course is closed, the powers that be may come after you.

 
The Mrs is out of home quarantine.  She never did get a fever and the cough has gotten better, but not totally gone.  Talked to her doctor and while we can't completely rule out COVID, there really are no other symptoms so its more likely to be a cold or allergies.

Home quarantine has been tough - tough having my wife and the mother of my kids stuck in the basement when she feels completely fine.  Still, i can't help from giving her the look whenever she coughs.

We will continue quarantining the household thru next week, which really isn't different than regular life, i guess.
Still not enough tests?  

I don't understand why grocery stores didn't go to online ordering.  For those without internet can call the store.     Grocery store employees pick out the items and deliver it curbside.    I have been doing grocery delivery for a very long time before the pandemic.  Win/Win
Because you don't if I want bananas and avocados for tonight or 4 days from now.  You don't know the size of baked potatoes I like.  You don't know it that boston butt is going to strike my fancy and create an idea necessitating other items.  You don't know the 6 things I've forgotten on my list that I'll remember once I walk past them.

But that's just me....

The reality is that stores having been moving away from employees being involved in check out.  Having them do the shopping seems is going to greatly increase labor costs.  Until there's a warehouse with automation picking the orders, I don't see employees shopping being cost effective.  Sure you're average FBG can afford to pay for it, but lots of people can't.

 
I see a few responses in this thread about golf, so I guess there's a sort of smattering of opinions already.

But I'm seriously considering going to City Park to walk 9. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Bad idea, dumb, good idea? I might have to purchase at a window, but otherwise by myself, light bag, no cart. Good idea, bad idea?
I wouldn't see it as a problem. Is it exposing yourself to a little more risk. Sure. BUt as long as you are not living or interacting with anyone immunocompromised, or 70+ y.o. or some such I cn't see much potential for harm onto others. Obviously don't hang out and chat over beers etc afterwards

 
Mine already had online ordering with delivery or curbside pickup for a long time before all of this. The other day, I attempted to place an order for curbside pickup and was given a ready time of 5 days out. 
The labor required for everyone to have their own personal shopper would be insane.  

 
Interestingly,  looking at Florida's numbers, after a jump of 43 new deaths on Thursday, the last 2 days have been 26 and 25 new deaths respectfully.

Their new cases the last 2 days has been 1277 and 1260. No idea if this due to them catching up on testing backlog or what.
@AlexBerenson: Florida hospital update: Another 1300 beds opened up overnight, the hospitals are now almost half-empty. ICU beds flat. https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1246770148813549569/photo/1

 
Has this been answered already? Sorry if I missed it, but I read this from a friend and am wondering the answer to it myself.

"I don’t get the “wear a mask made out of fabric” thing. Every article and specification I’ve read says fabric does nothing to stop the inhalation of the virus. The virus particle is too small. That’s why N95 was the initial recommended mask until people started hoarding and exhausted the supply. It DOES filter out the virus. So, is this fabric mask thing just a way to encourage community, to help people feel included and in control, giving folks a false sense of security, even though it’s useless and just for show? Or am I somehow misunderstanding the facts? And if any of the masks are effective, where are the instructions for the proper usage? It does no good to wear the same one repeatedly. I believe masks (and gloves) need to be changed out after every encounter. Otherwise, if the mask becomes contaminated but continually worn, doesn’t that just spread the contamination further which now makes the mask the culprit?"

 
NYC bounced back from 9/11 and will bounce back from this, but it makes me awfully sad to think about the best city on earth these days.
I venture out on Saturdays to volunteer for an essential service. Masks on the subway have been de rigueur for at least three weeks, but yesterday was the first time I’ve observed 80%+ usage on the street. Social distancing seems more pervasive with each passing day.

We’re all in this together. We will get through this.

 
Missing the daily numbers we were getting posted before, where’s the best links to follow accurate info? Thanks guys. 

 
Mine already had . ordering with delivery or curbside pickup for a long time before all of this. The other day, I attempted to place an order for curbside pickup and was given a ready time of 5 days out. 
two weeks here, if you can even get that. Count your five day blessings.

 
Still not enough tests?  

Because you don't if I want bananas and avocados for tonight or 4 days from now.  You don't know the size of baked potatoes I like.  You don't know it that boston butt is going to strike my fancy and create an idea necessitating other items.  You don't know the 6 things I've forgotten on my list that I'll remember once I walk past them.

But that's just me....

The reality is that stores having been moving away from employees being involved in check out.  Having them do the shopping seems is going to greatly increase labor costs.  Until there's a warehouse with automation picking the orders, I don't see employees shopping being cost effective.  Sure you're average FBG can afford to pay for it, but lots of people can't.
Grocery stores are raising prices and discontinuing weekly sales. Restaurants are no longer a threat to compete for meal purchases. Business is booming.

They can absolutely afford the extra payroll and the community needs the revenue.

 
Has this been answered already? Sorry if I missed it, but I read this from a friend and am wondering the answer to it myself.

"I don’t get the “wear a mask made out of fabric” thing. Every article and specification I’ve read says fabric does nothing to stop the inhalation of the virus. The virus particle is too small. That’s why N95 was the initial recommended mask until people started hoarding and exhausted the supply. It DOES filter out the virus. So, is this fabric mask thing just a way to encourage community, to help people feel included and in control, giving folks a false sense of security, even though it’s useless and just for show? Or am I somehow misunderstanding the facts? And if any of the masks are effective, where are the instructions for the proper usage? It does no good to wear the same one repeatedly. I believe masks (and gloves) need to be changed out after every encounter. Otherwise, if the mask becomes contaminated but continually worn, doesn’t that just spread the contamination further which now makes the mask the culprit?"
The mask does three things:

1) It lowers the amount of virus YOU spread to others, given you may have it and not know it

2) It's a fantastic reminder for you to stop touching your nose and mouth, which will significantly lower your chances of getting it

3) If you do get exposed to the virus, while it will not prevent the virus from being breathed in (N95 masks are only 95% effective at prevention), as you said it does filter the virus. This means the dosage of the virus you get will be smaller, giving your body a better chance of beating it. 

It is possible to give people a false sense of security, if people think it does more than what I posted above, but it's not useless and just for show. If the mask can't be washed, then it shold not be used repeatedly. 

 
I've seen them in the Whole Foods.  How much does that service cost?  Do you mind giving me a quick run down?

Part of Amazons model is to underprice and drive out the competition.
Prime has free delivery from Whole Foods.  The food costs are definitely up a bit since this started, but I think that's true in the store as well.

 
Grocery stores are raising prices and discontinuing weekly sales. Restaurants are no longer a threat to compete for meal purchases. Business is booming.

They can absolutely afford the extra payroll and the community needs the revenue.
Fortunately our stores are still running weekly sales, although I agree that pricing has gone up in general, especially PT and TP.

 
I have been following this thread for months and can remember vividly the "just the flu, bro" arguments many here (myself included) battled against.  That those arguments have now turned into "I regret that I have but one grandparent to give for my economy" is depressing, but not surprising as the normalcy bias in most is VERY strong.  Further, as Doug B noted, there is a belief that all opinions here are equally valid regardless of how uninformed they are.  By that I mean, some of us have been here from the beginning and thus have a basis in the myriad data sources, academic articles, and country-by-country actions...whereas others seem to parachute in on page 565 and declare "we can't keep this up, it'll be Lord of the Flies by Thursday afternoon if this continues" without understanding that EVERY other country in Europe has been doing more and for longer than we have.  I am empathetic to the idea that we can't do THIS for 6 months, but I'm also depressed by the lack of imagination that wrongly suggests that our choices are:

  • Option 1: pretend the virus doesn't exists, everybody go back to work & travel BAU, good luck out there
  • Option 2: for the next 6 months nobody leave the house (except for groceries), no businesses invent new ways of serving customers, no treatment plans are developed to mitigate impacts, no wide scale testing and contact tracing will be allowed to tell us where outbreaks are occurring in real time
So please, let's stop writing as if ONLY the above two scenarios are in play.  Let's acknowledge that yes, we don't shut down the economy to save a single life, or 10, or 100, or 1000, or 10,000...but that at SOME point we do need to start having the conversation about the cost-benefit trade-off.  FTR, I don't believe we are anywhere NEAR that point but the point is a valid one and so IF you agree that we don't shut the economy down to save a single life then you must admit that there is a cost-benefit discussion that needs to be had at some point.  Conversely, if you can't understand that the economy is not coming back just because a govt official re-opens for biz in the midst of a raging pandemic then you need to spend some of your free time reading a few articles on consumer psychology.

Apologies, if the tone of the above comes off as arrogant/pedantic, am tired and desirous of raising the level of discourse in here to something more stimulating.  Specifically, would love to hear people discussing how we - as citizens, consumers, and workers/leaders, can help one another in May once we tamp this initial wave down.  How does mass transit in NYC function without sig recurrence?  How do we get people to wear masks?  Do we create 16 hour work days in our offices so that we can have two shifts and limit the chance of in-office outbreaks?  What else?

 
Fortunately our stores are still running weekly sales, although I agree that pricing has gone up in general, especially PT and TP.
all grocery stores in canada (ontario, cant speak elsewhere) still running weekly deals. decent ones too.

price of everything else is the same

 
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Third hand story, but OK Boomer material.

Buddy's father in law orders from Wegman's powered by Instacart. Has to wait five days for the order, so is already not pleased. During the wait time, Wegman's goes out of stock on a few things included in the order, so the full order isn't delivered.

Apparently not realizing that there's a bit of stress on the supply chain, he decides this injustice cannot be allowed to pass unaddressed.

He drives down to Wegman's, demands to speak to a manager, demands a refund and when satisfaction isn't given proclaims that he will sue everyone, including Wegman's and Instagram.

 
Has this been answered already? Sorry if I missed it, but I read this from a friend and am wondering the answer to it myself.

"I don’t get the “wear a mask made out of fabric” thing. Every article and specification I’ve read says fabric does nothing to stop the inhalation of the virus. The virus particle is too small. That’s why N95 was the initial recommended mask until people started hoarding and exhausted the supply. It DOES filter out the virus. So, is this fabric mask thing just a way to encourage community, to help people feel included and in control, giving folks a false sense of security, even though it’s useless and just for show? Or am I somehow misunderstanding the facts? And if any of the masks are effective, where are the instructions for the proper usage? It does no good to wear the same one repeatedly. I believe masks (and gloves) need to be changed out after every encounter. Otherwise, if the mask becomes contaminated but continually worn, doesn’t that just spread the contamination further which now makes the mask the culprit?"
The mask isn't designed to protect YOU.  That's the dirty little secret the CDC doesn't want to admit.  It's to protect others FROM you! And why they previously stated that masks aren't effective in preventing the wearer from contracting the virus.  

 
Has this been answered already? Sorry if I missed it, but I read this from a friend and am wondering the answer to it myself.

"I don’t get the “wear a mask made out of fabric” thing. Every article and specification I’ve read says fabric does nothing to stop the inhalation of the virus. The virus particle is too small. That’s why N95 was the initial recommended mask until people started hoarding and exhausted the supply. It DOES filter out the virus. So, is this fabric mask thing just a way to encourage community, to help people feel included and in control, giving folks a false sense of security, even though it’s useless and just for show? Or am I somehow misunderstanding the facts? And if any of the masks are effective, where are the instructions for the proper usage? It does no good to wear the same one repeatedly. I believe masks (and gloves) need to be changed out after every encounter. Otherwise, if the mask becomes contaminated but continually worn, doesn’t that just spread the contamination further which now makes the mask the culprit?"
Yes. It seems we’re trying to catch mosquitos with a fishing net. But until N95 masks become available, I guess it’s all we have. 

 
I have been following this thread for months and can remember vividly the "just the flu, bro" arguments many here (myself included) battled against.  That those arguments have now turned into "I regret that I have but one grandparent to give for my economy" is depressing, but not surprising as the normalcy bias in most is VERY strong.  Further, as Doug B noted, there is a belief that all opinions here are equally valid regardless of how uninformed they are. 
I'd love to have the mods unhide the hidden comments at the beginning of this thread.  Some of them are quoted here and there, but you can't find the original (wildly wrong) post anymore.  

 
The mask isn't designed to protect YOU.  That's the dirty little secret the CDC doesn't want to admit.  It's to protect others FROM you! And why they previously stated that masks aren't effective in preventing the wearer from contracting the virus.  
You may be correct, but I'm not sure the evidence shows this.

 
Third hand story, but OK Boomer material.

Buddy's father in law orders from Wegman's powered by Instacart. Has to wait five days for the order, so is already not pleased. During the wait time, Wegman's goes out of stock on a few things included in the order, so the full order isn't delivered.

Apparently not realizing that there's a bit of stress on the supply chain, he decides this injustice cannot be allowed to pass unaddressed.

He drives down to Wegman's, demands to speak to a manager, demands a refund and when satisfaction isn't given proclaims that he will sue everyone, including Wegman's and Instagram.
And some in this thread are worried they won't get properly sized potatoes.

Expectations will be lowered very hard and very soon.

 
The mask isn't designed to protect YOU.  That's the dirty little secret the CDC doesn't want to admit.  It's to protect others FROM you! And why they previously stated that masks aren't effective in preventing the wearer from contracting the virus.  
It either stops the particle size or it doesn’t. It doesn’t.  A much better solution is for symptomatic people to stay home. 

 
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Are you volunteering for you and your family to be included in the 50K+?

Oh, you're not? Then you are being very casual about the lives of others.
Cost-benefit analyses about the monetary value of life often sound very casual because of the assumption that money can replace (or mollify the emotions that come with) the loss of a loved one.

 
I have hesitated to make this point, but believe it to be true deep down:

This pandemic is unusual among public matters in that valuable discourse about it will only come from a very narrow set of perspectives and knowledge bases that are largely in line with one another. There is not a wide spectrum of more or less equally valid opinions on the pandemic.
Why would the pandemic be any different than everything else post-Internet?

We have an entire generation now that thinks everything is a matter of opinion.  There are two sides to every argument.  No one is ever wrong -- they just disagree.  Calling out ignorance is the real problem.  Civility must rule over expertise.  And etc.

 
Has this been answered already? Sorry if I missed it, but I read this from a friend and am wondering the answer to it myself.

"I don’t get the “wear a mask made out of fabric” thing. Every article and specification I’ve read says fabric does nothing to stop the inhalation of the virus. The virus particle is too small. That’s why N95 was the initial recommended mask until people started hoarding and exhausted the supply. It DOES filter out the virus. So, is this fabric mask thing just a way to encourage community, to help people feel included and in control, giving folks a false sense of security, even though it’s useless and just for show? Or am I somehow misunderstanding the facts? And if any of the masks are effective, where are the instructions for the proper usage? It does no good to wear the same one repeatedly. I believe masks (and gloves) need to be changed out after every encounter. Otherwise, if the mask becomes contaminated but continually worn, doesn’t that just spread the contamination further which now makes the mask the culprit?"
Wearing a N95 properly protects you from others that are sick.   Wearing a cloth mask protects others from you should you be sick.  

 

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