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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (22 Viewers)

Blick said:
Understood for most of these, as its somewhat what we've been told for weeks.  Where we disagree is on the solution.  In a perfect world we would have all those things you say we need (widespread testing, contact tracing, stockpiling PPE, Ventilators, training).  I think we can we can probably stockpile the supplies.  However, how long do you think we need to be patient for widespread testing (for both active cases and immunity) and the infrastructure to contact trace effectively?  I don't think we have that much time.  If we skip robust testing and contact tracing, can we maintain regional hospital capacity while relaxing shut downs by continuing some level of social distancing and PPE use?  Obviously your plan is much more fool proof, but is squarely on the very conservative side of the argument and will keep the country staled much longer.
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Honestly, I don’t see another few weeks as earth shattering, though I’d love a good economic analysis of keeping largely shut down through June vs. May, for example. Seems like rapid tests are already being distributed, production of PPE and ventilators ramped up, etc. Hiring infection control and training/repurposing healthcare workers shouldn’t take too long either.

There are a ton of variables in the equation, so it’s hard to be definitive. But the decision should be data-driven rather than arbitrary.

 
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guru_007 said:
It's so hard to just reply without looking like I'm trying to pick a fight, because honestly I'm not.

But saying opening June 1st is ridiculously over optimistic to me sounds callous to the 35, 40, 50 million unemployed with families to feed.  And yes, the government is helping out, but I don't think you are understanding the backlog and how this help is not really coming through.  Nor do you understand just how many companies will be bankrupted and jobs not returning.  I see the burden being born way more on the poor of this country by locking it down for 3+ months.  And I know you'll say lives are more important, and I'm not arguing that fact, but a 30 year old person in relatively good health with 2 children to feed is not going to be at high risk.

And yes, I full agree we need wide spread testing, but I also believe that the spread is always going to be faster, more significant in NYC than it is in Tacoma Washington.  I think it's impossible to weigh everything accurately. 

I just really think that there is going to be a massive divide between the open it up and the don't open it up crowd here very soon and frankly I think things could get ugly. I just hope both sides can empathize with the other in a peaceful manner.
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I think this assumption is false though.  Look at Albany, GA which is about as small as it gets.  They have had a very bad outbreak and this is a rural area away from major cities.  This thing can mushroom very quickly anywhere.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hotspot-albany-georgia-funderals-covid-19-cases-per-capita-2020-4

 
Redwes25 said:
I honestly don't do the gloves when I go out.  I don't have multiple gloves I can just keep switching.  I much prefer having a small container of hand sanitizer where I wash my hands whenever I think I need to.  Tied that with a mask and I feel like I am in pretty good shape as I can wash my hands pretty constantly and much more then being able to change my gloves.  I play this little game in my head where I pretend whatever I touch is raw chicken so mentally keep needing to clean hands as who wants something with raw chicken on it.  Strange but it works for me.
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Yep. Mask + fastidious hand hygiene is plenty for someone with average exposure risk. If it remained infectious in the air for several hours, wafted over grocery store aisles, transferred readily from mail, etc., we’d all be infected by now.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Yeah, my wife (introvert) loves this — except for having the kids and me invading her space.

I’m definitely on the extroverted end of the scale, but really this hasn’t bothered me (yet).  I’m on the phone a lot all day, on videoconferences, etc.   During the afternoon / evening I hang with the kids or talk to family & friends on the phone.  It’s been awesome to connect with old friends, or just get a lot more chances to call my closest friends.   Lots of ways to get a social outlet.
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This is me and my wife as well (other than being on the phone/videoconferences all day)

 
parasaurolophus said:
Yep. The media wants so bad for spring breakers to be blamed for stuff. Just google "florida spring breakers coronavirus"

You get the cell phone data, the kids that got sick in tampa(no update on their severity of course), you get the NYT article about the lgbt festival (where older people got sick) but what you arent getting is a lot of stories about actual outbreaks or severe symptoms involving college students that were on spring break. If those things existed I think they would be national news.

Obviously could be those stories stayed local or maybe they are national and I havent seen them yet, but that seems very weird then that the NYT would have to use data from a non spring break event to write their story about spring break being a disaster.
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Exactly.  And that one guy who went viral when he said something like "corona virus isn't going to stop me from partying" was from friggin' Ohio.

 
guru_007 said:
It's so hard to just reply without looking like I'm trying to pick a fight, because honestly I'm not.

But saying opening June 1st is ridiculously over optimistic to me sounds callous to the 35, 40, 50 million unemployed with families to feed.  And yes, the government is helping out, but I don't think you are understanding the backlog and how this help is not really coming through.  Nor do you understand just how many companies will be bankrupted and jobs not returning.  I see the burden being born way more on the poor of this country by locking it down for 3+ months.  And I know you'll say lives are more important, and I'm not arguing that fact, but a 30 year old person in relatively good health with 2 children to feed is not going to be at high risk.

And yes, I full agree we need wide spread testing, but I also believe that the spread is always going to be faster, more significant in NYC than it is in Tacoma Washington.  I think it's impossible to weigh everything accurately. 

I just really think that there is going to be a massive divide between the open it up and the don't open it up crowd here very soon and frankly I think things could get ugly. I just hope both sides can empathize with the other in a peaceful manner.
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Regional approaches make sense, of course. Slow openings of certain small businesses at first seem like a good start. But we have to be really careful about the timing. One number goes down in one place and many people are already like "open it up". We have to do the hard work of social distancing through at least May in the hard hit areas. The model that most people are basing numbers on clearly says assuming social distancing measures are in place through May 2020. I feel for people but it seems premature to do anything before then. Some places, some small measures being lifted in June? That sounds reasonable, again depending on the area and whether they've been through the curve yet.

 
ConstruxBoy said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Huh?
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The Commish used Florida as an example of non-compliance. He's probably not wrong but pretending that Florida is the problem is not correct, IMO. Human nature is the problem. 
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Yeah, I'm not even coming close to try and "blame Florida" for anything.  I simply used cases of things I see around me (now living in Florida) as arguments against "leaving it the general public to do the right thing".  We are going to need to guide average Americans through this.  They don't have the will or information to do the right thing on their own.  This isn't Florida specific...it's an issue throughout our country.

I stated in the PSF when this whole thing started that it was going to be a fiasco (at best) because of the average American's attitude toward "big government".  So far, I am spot on.  If people aren't forced to do the right thing, they are going to do the thing they want to do every single time.

ETA:  We have a Florida politics thread in the PSF that's been pretty good IMO.  You can see my full thoughts on my state there.  In short, I think things have held reasonably well here.  DeSantis has been focused on testing and tracing.  I think that's absolutely needed.  Two things I completely disagree with (and they tie back directly to the point I made here and the post previous) are not shutting down the beaches at Spring Break and putting churches on the "essential" list.  That's my list of things I don't agree with...everything else has seemed reasonable thus far.

 
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Mr. Ham said:
Funny because... it’s true. :unsure:

I’ve drained a bottle of wine every day except one since March 9 when we went on lockdown. No more, no less. Start drinking about 3pm and have a glass about every other hour. Going to have to put the brakes on, but not quite ready yet.
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No reason to stop now. Don’t be a quitter!

 
AAABatteries said:
  It's wonderful knowing our 2-party system is so ####ed that a global pandemic has people taking sides.
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My wife and I were talking the other day about exactly this. 

I think back to my grandfather. Was a captain in the Navy. Fighter pilot in WWII, and one of this torpedo bombs helped to sink the Yamato battleship to help effectively win the war. Those brave men and women back in war time fought for something so great. They fought for our freedom. They fought for a country that came together for a common enemy and American citizens and businesses rose to the occasion. All under the flag.

And now, I see our American citizens rising up to the occasion - fighting this thing on the front lines against one common enemy and doing it for the friends and neighbors and families and themselves.

And it's a downright embarrassment to see our national response to this (governmental response). And the fighting and roadblocks and just everything. Makes me sad. 

 
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Mr. Ham said:
Funny because... it’s true. :unsure:

I’ve drained a bottle of wine every day except one since March 9 when we went on lockdown. No more, no less. Start drinking about 3pm and have a glass about every other hour. Going to have to put the brakes on, but not quite ready yet.
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Yup. The wife is quite the collector of wine. I would usually have a glass or two maybe two nights a week. Let’s just say we have sprinted past that mark, like Usain Bolt levels.

Not waking up with a hangover, headache so maybe I have reached that level of the French where it is somehow healthy! 

 
guru_007 said:
It's so hard to just reply without looking like I'm trying to pick a fight, because honestly I'm not.

But saying opening June 1st is ridiculously over optimistic to me sounds callous to the 35, 40, 50 million unemployed with families to feed. 
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It's not about being callous.  It's just being realistic.  

Fundamentally, people are not losing their jobs because of the government or because of shelter-in-place orders.  They're losing their jobs because we're experiencing a pandemic.  If your state's governor re-opened the restaurants tomorrow, it would make very little difference because nobody in their right mind is going to go to a restaurant until this thing is under control.  The very best thing we can do for the economy right now is to keep people at home until we get widespread testing and contact tracing.  

 
Terminalxylem said:
Honestly, I don’t see another few weeks as earth shattering, though I’d love to see a good economic analysis of keeping largely shut down through June vs. May, for example. Seems like rapid tests are already being distributed, production of PPE and ventilators ramped up, etc. Hiring infection control and training/repurposing healthcare workers shouldn’t take too long either.

There are a ton of variables in the equation, so it’s hard to be definitive. But the decision should be data-driven rather than arbitrary.
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Agreed that another few weeks isn't earth shattering.  However that isn't what we are hearing from anyone in government and I'm fairly confident the data will not have the required accuracy to allow for an "informed" decision to be made in that short time.    

Edit to add:  I'm not trying to argue with you.  You've been very informative in this thread.  While I'd love there to be one, I just don't see a purely scientific solution to the question of when we should start to reopen.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
It's not about being callous.  It's just being realistic.  

Fundamentally, people are not losing their jobs because of the government or because of shelter-in-place orders.  They're losing their jobs because we're experiencing a pandemic.  If your state's governor re-opened the restaurants tomorrow, it would make very little difference because nobody in their right mind is going to go to a restaurant until this thing is under control.  The very best thing we can do for the economy right now is to keep people at home until we get widespread testing and contact tracing.  
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Gotta disagree. 

If restaurants opened up in a few weeks with solid capacity restrictions (meaning tables spaced out), I'd have no issue eating out.

 
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Mr. Ham said:
Yes, but don’t market fundamentals kick in at some point? You’re essentially saying floor P/E ratios are rising as a rule because of overprinting of cash. I don’t think that’s sustainable. I think eventually the fundamentals will adhere to historical norms. By mid June, with Q2 earning and revised earnings forecasts, I would question how a bull market can sustain itself with P/Es between 17-20. Have to think they’ll settle below 15, and possibly as low at 10. You make sound arguments, but there is always an excuse for why this time is different, but the market dynamics eventually have to be tethered to what’s happening on the ground. I think.
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Again, "don't bet against the fed".

Once the Fed is done printing, or you think the fed will stop printing soon, THEN market fundamentals come in. 

Personally I don't think the Fed can stop it's printing until sometime in 2022. It may slow it some in that time, but It's going to printing for quite a while. 

I'm not saying that's going to make the market go up. The whole point of the Fed printing is that deleveraging is too high, which would cause asset prices to drop, so the printing is to counter act that and keep asset prices from dropping (among other things). The goal is NOT to make asset prices rise (although that can sometimes be an unintended consequence). 

I'm also not saying P/E doesn't matter when comparing ABC company's P/E to XYZ company's P/E. That's very relevant when deciding between buying or selling the stocks of the two. But when looking at overall P/E of the market and deciding where the market is going, that's pretty much irrelevant when the Fed is in printing mode. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
It's not about being callous.  It's just being realistic.  

Fundamentally, people are not losing their jobs because of the government or because of shelter-in-place orders.  They're losing their jobs because we're experiencing a pandemic.  If your state's governor re-opened the restaurants tomorrow, it would make very little difference because nobody in their right mind is going to go to a restaurant until this thing is under control.  The very best thing we can do for the economy right now is to keep people at home until we get widespread testing and contact tracing.  
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I think you might be surprised.  I wouldn’t, but I know a lot of people that would.

 
the moops said:
I would guess that we all touch the soles of our shoes far more often than we think. Putting them away. Getting them out of a gym bag. And I doubt many of us actually think it is all that gross
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Putting them away? Nope ... they just stay by the bed.

Getting them in and out of gym bag? Nope, they never go into one :D  

...

I posted almost two months ago about my hand-washing habits and the universe of "clean" and "unclean" things around me. "Shoe soles" are decidedly in the "unclean" category and absolutely necessitate a hand-washing.

 
Redwes25 said:
I think this assumption is false though.  Look at Albany, GA which is about as small as it gets.  They have had a very bad outbreak and this is a rural area away from major cities.  This thing can mushroom very quickly anywhere.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hotspot-albany-georgia-funderals-covid-19-cases-per-capita-2020-4
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Saying "always" of course is incorrect. But obviously certain areas are more likely to have mass spread. Even in Albany where they had a couple of big spreading events that skewed the early data, I think the numbers will level out much easier than in a bigger cramped city. 

Albany got so much press because they were one of the first and one block of 20 people can drastically stick out in a city of 77k. 

Kind if like how Washington state got so much press early and has now faded into the background more. They had a large event skewing early data. 

It is a heck of a lot easier to always stay 6 feet apart from people in places where you dont have to take public transportation or even elevators. 

I mean in New York do people just sit and wait for their own elevator? Always take the stairs and hope nobody else is coming? Hold their breath? 

It is also much easier for me on my 1 acre plot and three freezers and house to reduce my time out in society  than a family in a small apartment with no yard and a fire escape landing as their self contained outdoor access with a small fridge freezer unit should an outbreak occur. 

These things are silly to argue against. It is like finding the cases of young people dying to point out that everybody is equally at risk. There is a weird push with this thing to embrace anecdotal data. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Saying "always" of course is incorrect. But obviously certain areas are more likely to have mass spread. Even in Albany where they had a couple of big spreading events that skewed the early data, I think the numbers will level out much easier than in a bigger cramped city. 

Albany got so much press because they were one of the first and one block of 20 people can drastically stick out in a city of 77k. 

Kind if like how Washington state got so much press early and has now faded into the background more. They had a large event skewing early data. 

It is a heck of a lot easier to always stay 6 feet apart from people in places where you dont have to take public transportation or even elevators. 

I mean in New York do people just sit and wait for their own elevator? Always take the stairs and hope nobody else is coming? Hold their breath? 

It is also much easier for me on my 1 acre plot and three freezers and house to reduce my time out in society  than a family in a small apartment with no yard and a fire escape landing as their self contained outdoor access with a small fridge freezer unit should an outbreak occur. 

These things are silly to argue against. It is like finding the cases of young people dying to point out that everybody is equally at risk. There is a weird push with this thing to embrace anecdotal data. 
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 My only point is that opening up needs to be done very carefully when we have testing and tracing ready.  Until we have that in place we aren't ready to open things up.  

This thing can spread very quickly anywhere so don't think you are safe just because you live in some rural county that hasn't seen cases.  Even small towns have weddings, funerals, kids birthday parties, etc.  where it can spread like wildfire.  This disease spreads very easily in big groups.  

 
Redwes25 said:
I honestly don't do the gloves when I go out.  I don't have multiple gloves I can just keep switching.  I much prefer having a small container of hand sanitizer where I wash my hands whenever I think I need to.  Tied that with a mask and I feel like I am in pretty good shape as I can wash my hands pretty constantly and much more then being able to change my gloves.  I play this little game in my head where I pretend whatever I touch is raw chicken so mentally keep needing to clean hands as who wants something with raw chicken on it.  Strange but it works for me.
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Exactly this ... except for the 'raw chicken' game :)  

 
Politician Spock said:
Again, "don't bet against the fed".

Once the Fed is done printing, or you think the fed will stop printing soon, THEN market fundamentals come in. 

Personally I don't think the Fed can stop it's printing until sometime in 2022. It may slow it some in that time, but It's going to printing for quite a while. 

I'm not saying that's going to make the market go up. The whole point of the Fed printing is that deleveraging is too high, which would cause asset prices to drop, so the printing is to counter act that and keep asset prices from dropping (among other things). The goal is NOT to make asset prices rise (although that can sometimes be an unintended consequence). 

I'm also not saying P/E doesn't matter when comparing ABC company's P/E to XYZ company's P/E. That's very relevant when deciding between buying or selling the stocks of the two. But when looking at overall P/E of the market and deciding where the market is going, that's pretty much irrelevant when the Fed is in printing mode. 
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Spock and Ham, this has been a great back and forth and I've enjoyed reading it.  Some of it is over my head, but what I can pick up on is fascinating.  Keep up the great work.

 
Terminalxylem said:
Yep. Mask + fastidious hand hygiene is plenty for someone with average exposure risk. If it remained infectious in the air for several hours, wafted over grocery store aisles, transferred readily from mail, etc., we’d all be infected by now.
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Yep. And any "study" that would aim to refute this has to have an overwhelming data, and build a gigantic consensus on top of that. I don't want to hear about loose chunks of viral RNA found in a random hallway.

 
guru_007 said:
One thing to take into account for Florida however is they are still a few weeks away from what may be their peak.   I do worry a bit about Florida due to their older population.

I did get a kick out of reading on ESPN that WWE is essential business.

And just a random thought/concern is I think we're getting to the point where a major #### show is going to happen as half the country is going to want to open it all up as soon as May 1st (if not sooner!), while half the country is going to want it to NOT open up before June 1st (if not later!).   This is going to cause a major strife, and not to get at all political, but you can see the obvious sides.  I definitely see both sides here, but I really think a lot of people have blinders on and are not willing to accept the other sides concern.  Even in this thread there are many posters that are definitely/vehemently opposed to opening anything up for at least another month, or longer.  I hope these people have empathy for the less well to do.  I know there are people that are struggling to feed their families, and are behind on rents/mortgages and extremely stressed and feeling overwhelmed. I hope those people can understand the implications of opening up the country to early.  I have always been a touch concerned over a class warfare breaking the country apart. I think this issue may exasperate that concern to another degree.  
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I have been monitoring this thread pretty closely since its inception and I don't believe I have seen much/any of the bolded.  I think what I have seen, and perhaps what you have misunderstood, is people arguing against an across-the-board re-opening of the country's economy/businesses with complete disregard for regional timelines and characteristics AND without a plan in place to prevent what is happening now (i.e. the blunt instrument of a near-national stay-at-home advisory).  I think most/all of the people arguing AGAINST re-opening NOW are arguing FOR three things:

  1. A gradual (i.e. keep public gatherings under 25 people, mask requirements, etc.) re-opening directed by those closest (i.e. governors with input from mayors) to account for the specific regional threats (i.e. number of cases, population density, and unique public gathering features - like beaches or mass transit)
  2. The ability to conduct wide-scale testing and contact tracing
  3. An executable plan for both tightening and relaxing restrictions as necessary given the ongoing feedback of #2 above


As always, just my opinion.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Fundamentally, people are not losing their jobs because of the government or because of shelter-in-place orders.  They're losing their jobs because we're experiencing a pandemic.  If your state's governor re-opened the restaurants tomorrow, it would make very little difference because nobody in their right mind is going to go to a restaurant until this thing is under control.  The very best thing we can do for the economy right now is to keep people at home until we get widespread testing and contact tracing.  
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Exactly this -- the economy can't be ordered "back to normal, pronto!" The millions who lost their jobs would've still lost their jobs -- and maybe more -- had there been no orders whatsoever. Society was not (and is not) going to be able to continue like normal.

 
Doug B said:
Yep. And any "study" that would aim to refute this has to have an overwhelming data, and build a gigantic consensus on top of that. I don't want to hear about loose chunks of viral RNA found in a random hallway.
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Agreed, the it'll stay for up to two weeks and it can stay in the air for days, etc. would mean that the whole world would have been infected by now. The whole Wuhan bus theory about it carrying 10-15 feet away completely ignored the most obvious cause of a passenger at the front and back catching it, the fact that both people likely used the same rails or put their hands on the same seats. Just think about the last time you got on a bus. Did you jump up to the bus landing and go to your seat without touching anything? Nope.

 
eoMMan said:
IvanKaramazov said:
It's not about being callous.  It's just being realistic.  

Fundamentally, people are not losing their jobs because of the government or because of shelter-in-place orders.  They're losing their jobs because we're experiencing a pandemic.  If your state's governor re-opened the restaurants tomorrow, it would make very little difference because nobody in their right mind is going to go to a restaurant until this thing is under control.  The very best thing we can do for the economy right now is to keep people at home until we get widespread testing and contact tracing.  
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Gotta disagree. 

If restaurants opened up in a few weeks with solid capacity restrictions (meaning tables spaced out), I'd have no issue eating out.
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OK. But do enough agree with you to keep restaurants afloat at pre-pandemic numbers? Restaurants running with 1/2 the tables and 1/8 the customers aren't going to support many jobs. Similar for other service industries.

 
Doug B said:
Exactly this -- the economy can't be ordered "back to normal, pronto!" The millions who lost their jobs would've still lost their jobs -- and maybe more -- had there been no orders whatsoever. Society was not (and is not) going to be able to continue like normal.
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This is a great point.  I feel like some people think we are going to flip a switch and everything will go back to the way it was.  It doesn't work that way.

 
Doug B said:
OK. But do enough agree with you to keep restaurants afloat at pre-pandemic numbers? Restaurants running with 1/2 the tables and 1/8 the customers aren't going to support many jobs. Similar for other service industries.
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Even if it's not "many" in the grand scheme of things, reopening would sure be a big deal to those people who are in a position to have their jobs saved.  Not saying that justifies prematurely opening things back up - and I'm personally in the 'shut it down as long as we need to' camp - but I've noticed there is a problematic tendency among those of us in white collar jobs who have been relatively unaffected by this whole thing to be a little cavalier about when other people should get their jobs and incomes back (that's a generality not necessarily directed at you).

 
beer 30 said:
I believe you are looking for Greg or Chad here but I think it's still open for debate.
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Dude... W T F 

First time I saw this was about a week a go with a realtor who said "I am literally a product of a Karen and a Chad" in a little debate among realtors about being too sexy in pictures (I admit... the only reason I was reading it was that she was pretty darn sexy in herprofile pictures)

The name Chad gets NO love. First it was all about the "preppy" tag to it.... then the stupid 2000 election in Florida..... then Tom Green in Charlie's Angels (man, the year 2000 sucked to have the name Chad).... then now this? Come on guys. Give a guy a break. 

 
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gruecd said:
McDonald's down?
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No, but I have to have an interaction there.

At Quik Trip I can walk in with my own cup, fill it, and insert my credit card without having to hand a card to a human being. I then sanitize my hands (since I touched the door handle to get in), wipe down my cup and credit card and move on. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Dude... W T F 

First time I saw this was about a week a go with a realtor who said "I am literally a product of a Karen and a Chad" in a little debate among realtors about being too sexy in pictures (I admit... the only reason I was reading it was that she was pretty darn sexy in his profile pictures)

The name Chad gets NO love. First it was all about the "preppy" tag to it.... then the stupid 2000 election in Florida..... then Tom Green in Charlie's Angels (man, the year 2000 sucked to have the name Chad).... then now this? Come on guys. Give a guy a break. 
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I don't make the innerweb rules man, I just report the news...Chad

 
Doug B said:
OK. But do enough agree with you to keep restaurants afloat at pre-pandemic numbers? Restaurants running with 1/2 the tables and 1/8 the customers aren't going to support many jobs. Similar for other service industries.
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:shrug:

Many restaurants are trying to stay afloat NOW by just doing take-out and delivery.  Allowing them to seat a few people in a responsible manner would only help support jobs, right?

I don't think anyone is expecting pre-pandemic numbers for awhile.

 
eoMMan said:
Many restaurants are trying to stay afloat NOW by just doing take-out and delivery.  Allowing them to seat a few people in a responsible manner would only help support jobs, right?

I don't think anyone is expecting pre-pandemic numbers for awhile.
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Maybe, maybe not. I can see some mom-&-pop places just having the proprietor (or immediate family) wait on customers. I'd imagine you can get some number of service-industry personnel back on their feet ... but in my mind the number is small and rife with under-employment ("Good news! I'm back to work! Bad news! Because I work for tips, I make 25% of what I made before while working the same hours :(  ").

 
Chadstroma said:
Dude... W T F 

The name Chad gets NO love. First it was all about the "preppy" tag to it.... then the stupid 2000 election in Florida..... then Tom Green in Charlie's Angels (man, the year 2000 sucked to have the name Chad).... then now this? Come on guys. Give a guy a break. 
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Chads are fine in my book.  To your first point, I learned how to properly rock a popped collar on a Dockers polo shirt from one way back when...

 
eoMMan said:
:shrug:

Many restaurants are trying to stay afloat NOW by just doing take-out and delivery.  Allowing them to seat a few people in a responsible manner would only help support jobs, right?

I don't think anyone is expecting pre-pandemic numbers for awhile.
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If it's a full service restaurant, probably not. Table staff work for tips, so they need a lot of tables to make a living. 

 
gianmarco said:
Bill Maher -- Virus Shaming
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As with all things Bill Maher I both agree and disagree.  First, I question the (small p) political motivation of anyone who is insistent upon calling it the "Chinese Virus."  It strikes me as an attempt to assign blame to an entire country.  And yes, I know that we USED to name virus after the region of origin, but we USED to do alot of things we do NOT do anymore.  I'd prefer to assign blame to something I'd like to see widely recognized and fixed: so maybe we should call it the Wet Market virus. 

As always, just my opinion.

 
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