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The number of people seems less relevant than the distancing guidelines. If a restaurant has enough outdoor space to seat 500 people such that each table is 12 feet apart, I don't see a problem allowing 500. If they only have enough outdoor space to seat 25 with each table being 12 feet apart, then they shouldn't be allowed more than 25. Ditto for religious services. You have a field the size of Dallas Cowboys stadium and a big microphone? Go for it. You have a 10' x 10' lot? Better restrict it to one family attending.the moops said:
Posting a 21-minute video kind of requires some Cliffs Notes. Too much of a time sink.
His first point was "the original narrative was we need to flatten the curve". That's just false. The original narrative was "we need to flatten the curve IN ORDER TO buy time to develop testing and contact tracing". He then launched into the typical Fox News talking points but provided no facts, just talking points like "hydroxycloroquine works, doctors are using it".
I watched 4-5 minutes. His stance during the first half is essentially the lockdowns are causing more deaths than the virus and hydroxycloroquine works, it shouldn't be politicized.
Disagree. We need to flatten the curve IN ORDER to allow hospitals time to get ready is what I remember.
OK, went to Google News and looked up Dr. Jeff Barke. Quickly found two articles that addressed several of his specific claims.
Then you remember incorrectly. Flatten the curve in order not to overwhelm hospitals immediately, but also to give us time to understand the virus and develop testing/tracing capability. Read the popular article The Hammer and The Dance from March. Here's a link to it from March 19, although I don't think this is the original. Note the heading: "Understand the True Problem: Testing and Tracing"
The links dont really prove anything. They are using info "from public health experts", which he addresses in the video.
We dont have to write off the possibility. As always it isnt all or nothing. We also dont have to only rely on US data. If schools stay closed how would we ever get just the US data?
Too many scientists spoil the broth.
The CDC isn't really a political branch of government, so I don't think it's that. A much simpler explanation is that a significant number of people who work at the CDC are incompetent. Not all of them of course, but enough to cause the agency to fail at what seem like basic tasks. There's good a priori reason for thinking that that's the case. The type of person who might consider employment at the CDC would generally have better career paths available in academia or the private sector. I seriously doubt the CDC is in a position to hire the best of the best.
Then it becomes an article of faith from one perspective or another. Debunking becomes impossible.
And there's the rub. What makes a "public health expert's" opinion better for me than my personal doctor's?
All of our opinions are irrelevant. You’re free to believe what you want. Just a tip, if YouTube keeps removing it, there’s probably a reason.
Wouldn't that depend on the context? If the context is your personal health, then your personal doctor is likely in a better position to know. If the context is "are testing and contact tracing effective and necessary to contain an outbreak of a pandemic disease", I'll take Dr. Fauci over your personal doctor.
Answer for the house:
No, we bailed on that early on when it became pretty apparent that it wasn't being transmitted that way.
Particularly if your personal doctor's youtube video keeps getting removed by youtube for being misleading and Dr Fauci's doesn't
Yeah, I never wiped down or sterilized things that were brought into the house. I would leave mail to sit off to the side for a day or so unless it needed to be opened, if we had a delivery or take-out, I would unbox everything, throw the containers in the garbage and wash my hands. I expect to continue doing this for the foreseeable future.
Closed stable door, meet free-roaming horse.The General said:
Safe is a tricky term though, wouldn't you agree?
Deaths are down 40%, we're doing 400,000 tests a day, the CDC is focusing on contact tracing and it does seem like warm/wet weather inhibits transmission -- progress!
Didn't they do this after the first SARS in 2003? Once the heat dies down, then the wet market people bribe a local politician, who bribes a regional politician, who bribes a national politician, and we are back to wet markets being open?The General said:
Yeah that statement surprised me as well. Unless I've missed it, I haven't seen any evidence of this.
This kinda seems much ado about nothing to be honest.
The test count from the cdc has probably not ever been linked or mentioned in this thread once. I bet none of us knew about this new dashboard. So while the CDC should be representing things properly, this seems more like typical government rollout failure than any kind of data manipulation conspiracy that crack journalists at the atlantic uncovered.
That's a great article, thanks. I strongly agree with the idea that mass indoor gatherings are really bad for the spread, and outdoor gatherings, probably aren't.
I didn't watch the video, but you couldn't be more wrong with your first point. No one was talking about contact tracing or unreasonable testing numbers until the lock downs started. It was all about flattening the curve. I was never in favor of lock downs, but considering what we saw in Italy and were starting to see in Spain, I didn't complain. We could not let our hospitals be overwhelmed like we were seeing there. Contact tracing and "we need (this many) tests per day" talk only started popping up when we started discussing reopening.
Agree on the CDC data. No one is looking at their data anyway.
