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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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3 minutes ago, joffer said:

ran some errands in north Austin and i was pleasantly surprised to see a lot of masks being worn.

Isn't Austin where a judge earlier this week issued an order requiring masks in public defying Abbott's executive order last month? Or was it Houston? 

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4 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

Disagree on mandate.  However I agree they work and I wear one whenever I go out in public.

You do realize that masks protect OTHERS from you far more then you from others, right?

So YES, they are well within the margin of what our government SHOULD be able to mandate  during a crisis. Unless you're also one of those whackjobs who thinks drivers licenses  and motor vehicle liability insurance are also outside the scope...in which case we have no common ground at all from which to communicate.

 

 

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I've been a bit busy lately to poke my head into these threads. I'm an ICU RN and have seen plenty of COVID first hand. It's amazing how long a COVID patient can remain ill, and how incredibly sick they can become. The overwhelming majority of deaths are older sickly people to begin with, but I've seen more then a few fairly healthy 30, 40 year olds spend 2 weeks plus on a vent and a couple end up with a trach heading to weeks of rehab. Kind of scary.

 

But here's the problem many people have lost sight of in this as we start to open back up a little. Social distancing, masks, etc....were NEVER going to beat this. It was already too widespread, and too contagious to work. 40-60% of us were going to catch it no matter what we did. The draconion measures we took were to FLATTEN THE CURVE, not eliminate the bug. They worked...in most places, health care facilities weren't over-run, and we've allowed the supply chain to pick up a little on critical gear. But unless we want to spend another year in full isolation with most businesses closed down, we're still gonna have to go through the pain....we're still going to have 3, 4, maybe 12 or 14 hundred thousand die. There's no easy answers there.

Opening most things up but requiring masks almost everywhere is the logical step to take IMO....and cases will stay steady or rise slightly in most areas...but that's kind of the point! YES>>>PEOPLE WILL GET SICK AND DIE! But people were going to get sick and die anyway, we cant stop that. We just need to find the sweet spot where our facilities can keep up well enough to save those they can save (IE: actually have ICU beds and vents and enough staff to work them) while allowing this thing to work it's way through us so we can get to the other side and get back to a normal life. Not an easy thing to do, and not easy decisions for our leaders to make, so I really think we need to keep that in mind as we talk about it. 

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14 minutes ago, jamny said:

They should all do that.

I wish we didn’t have to but it seems like the only way to get people to wear masks. My store today has been good with masks, almost shutdown good, but we’ve always been much better than other places.

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1 hour ago, shader said:
2 hours ago, The Commish said:

Every state (some punt to local municipalities) has laws about shirts/shoes, but somehow we can't have one for masks?  Really?  Come on!  Of course we can.  It just takes the will to do the correct thing.  The politicizing of masks might be the dumbest, most short sighted thing I've seen in politics ever.  

I believe California just announced one

Wait!!  What??  Really?!?!?!?!  Making the impossible possible?!?!?!  Good on them!

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Was just watching my Governor's daily brief.  One of the first things talked about was the importance of getting tested (by Lt Gov Susan Bysiewicz).  She said testing was free to everyone in the state, even if you don't have health care coverage.  And no doctors note or appointment needed.  Just show up to any testing facility.

I have no symptoms, nor do I think I have ever been exposed.  I just wanted to see how easy it was to get tested.  I went to the CVS website that was provided on CT's portal, and it turns out, I do need an appointment, at least in my area.  I answered a few questions, and the site determined I did not qualify for a test at this time.  I then decided to say I was 100 years old, and guess what?  I still didn't qualify, unless I had multiple underlying conditions.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, renesauz said:

I've been a bit busy lately to poke my head into these threads. I'm an ICU RN and have seen plenty of COVID first hand. It's amazing how long a COVID patient can remain ill, and how incredibly sick they can become. The overwhelming majority of deaths are older sickly people to begin with, but I've seen more then a few fairly healthy 30, 40 year olds spend 2 weeks plus on a vent and a couple end up with a trach heading to weeks of rehab. Kind of scary.

 

But here's the problem many people have lost sight of in this as we start to open back up a little. Social distancing, masks, etc....were NEVER going to beat this. It was already too widespread, and too contagious to work. 40-60% of us were going to catch it no matter what we did. The draconion measures we took were to FLATTEN THE CURVE, not eliminate the bug. They worked...in most places, health care facilities weren't over-run, and we've allowed the supply chain to pick up a little on critical gear. But unless we want to spend another year in full isolation with most businesses closed down, we're still gonna have to go through the pain....we're still going to have 3, 4, maybe 12 or 14 hundred thousand die. There's no easy answers there.

Opening most things up but requiring masks almost everywhere is the logical step to take IMO....and cases will stay steady or rise slightly in most areas...but that's kind of the point! YES>>>PEOPLE WILL GET SICK AND DIE! But people were going to get sick and die anyway, we cant stop that. We just need to find the sweet spot where our facilities can keep up well enough to save those they can save (IE: actually have ICU beds and vents and enough staff to work them) while allowing this thing to work it's way through us so we can get to the other side and get back to a normal life. Not an easy thing to do, and not easy decisions for our leaders to make, so I really think we need to keep that in mind as we talk about it. 

I refuse to accept that level of deaths. Other countries have proven it's possible to get a better handle on this thing.

And thank you for your service.

Edited by cap'n grunge
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Yeah - I get the idea that we are going to have deaths and we have to accept that but there’s a disconnect between that and how other countries are getting things under control.  I don’t know the answers and I’m not sure how to resolve things outside of people following the suggestions of experts but I’m also not onboard with just accepting 1.2 to 1.4 M deaths.

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I totally stand behind the rule to have masks mandatory inside buildings
I totally stand behind allowing restaurants to offer inside dining

I can't have it both ways, can I?  If I can't take off my mask at the grocery store, because it endangers lives, what gives?  Or am I allowed to keep my mask around my neck, and only use it to cover my nose and mouth when I am within 6 feet of someone?

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I don't think I could possibly enjoy going out to a bar or restaurant right now even if it were free.  We've done take out a couple of times and I'm all in favor of that, but I won't be doing any on-site dining or drinking any time soon. 

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2 hours ago, Dezbelief said:

Isn't Austin where a judge earlier this week issued an order requiring masks in public defying Abbott's executive order last month? Or was it Houston? 

Abbott’s story is now that his order only prohibited cities and counties from requiring individuals to wear masks, but that they could actually require businesses to require their customers to wear masks. And it was in plain sight all along, as if keeping people from dying was a riddle to be solved by local government. 
 

Nelson Wolff, the county judge in Bexar County (San Antonio) was the first one to figure it out. Several other jurisdictions have followed suit with similar orders. Also, county judges in Texas aren’t actually judges, but are the chief executive officer of county government. Because we can’t make anything simple.

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't think I could possibly enjoy going out to a bar or restaurant right now even if it were free.  We've done take out a couple of times and I'm all in favor of that, but I won't be doing any on-site dining or drinking any time soon. 

I’ve done open air patios. Masked up until we get to the table and on the way out. Tables separated by 10 feet or more. Rules a lot of places out, but there are a few around where we feel comfortable.

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7 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't think I could possibly enjoy going out to a bar or restaurant right now even if it were free.  We've done take out a couple of times and I'm all in favor of that, but I won't be doing any on-site dining or drinking any time soon. 

I only felt a little weird the first couple of times. We went out for lunch or dinner probably 10 times,  including just for drinks a couple of times and it wasn't that big a deal by the end. As long as the place takes precautions and there's proper distance.

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To add to that @IvanKaramazov, my favorite brewery has eight outdoor tables that you can reserve online in 90 minute increments. 30 minutes in between reservations to clean. Masks all the time except when seated. Order and pay at one window, pick up beer at the next window. Going there tomorrow.

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23 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't think I could possibly enjoy going out to a bar or restaurant right now even if it were free.  We've done take out a couple of times and I'm all in favor of that, but I won't be doing any on-site dining or drinking any time soon. 

Exactly where we are. Take out, in part to treat ourselves, in part to support local restaurants we like. But we're still limiting our trips out as much as possible. Only for necessary things, and dining and drinking out aren't that.

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One thing I saw in Boise that I thought was totally ridiculous and unnecessary were those Pedal Pubs. driving around the streets. Sure, everyone face each other and yell and scream. :wall: 

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Still amazed at Connecticut's numbers.  2 days into Phase 2, and still setting records...

- 4th day in a row with single digit deaths.  The last time we had even back-to-back days was in March, when we had only 36 recorded deaths
- 176 current hospitalizations.  #1 in the nation in downward trajectory of hospitalizations over last 14 days
- 8 straight days under 3% positivity, with an average of only 2.09%
- 1 of only 9 states in "the green", according to covidexitstrategy.org

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16 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Still amazed at Connecticut's numbers.  2 days into Phase 2, and still setting records...

- 4th day in a row with single digit deaths.  The last time we had even back-to-back days was in March, when we had only 36 recorded deaths
- 176 current hospitalizations.  #1 in the nation in downward trajectory of hospitalizations over last 14 days
- 8 straight days under 3% positivity, with an average of only 2.09%
- 1 of only 9 states in "the green", according to covidexitstrategy.org

I think Connecticut is in the best position - didn’t get hammered as hard as the rest of the northeast but close enough to the epicenter that proper precautions were established and people actually followed them.

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2 hours ago, jamny said:

One thing I saw in Boise that I thought was totally ridiculous and unnecessary were those Pedal Pubs. driving around the streets. Sure, everyone face each other and yell and scream. :wall: 

Hate those ####### things

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17 hours ago, Payne said:

I honestly don't know how some of you sleep at night. Are you constantly anxious and nervous? 

My family has done takeout since the beginning. Just had our first dine-in experience this past weekend. And I live next door to Detroit, a very large hot spot. 

Wash your hands. Wear a mask when needed. Cannot live in fear.   

I'm not anxious or nervous at all. Though I don't consider myself a thrill-seeker, I've participated in activities some may consider crazy - mountaineering, backcountry skiing, canyoneering, big wall and ice climbing. Just today I climbed a two tier cliff at least 100 feet tall. But those are calculated risks I accept. If something goes wrong, I'm only putting my partner and potential rescuers in jeopardy.

COVID is different. Although healthcare workers are at higher risk than the general population, I'm not concerned I'll get infected. But I don't want to make other people sick, especially for something as inconsequential as a night on the town, discretionary shopping, parties, concerts, sporting events, going to the gym, getting a massage, etc. There are plenty of other enjoyable, lower risk activities available - all you have to do is avoid crowds and/or close contact. Heck, if people expand their horizons, they might even discover something new, and enrich their lives without endangering the health of others.

This isn't going to last forever. It's not about living in fear; it's being willing to make some collective sacrifices for the vulnerable members of our population.

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15 hours ago, TheWinz said:

As states are trying to open up, it seems like important numbers would be ICU and bed availability percentages.  Here are the 5 worst and best in each category:

ICU - Worst - AL (21%), FL (26%), GA (27%), AZ, MD, RI (28%)

ICU - Best - ND (68%), OH (61%), NJ (60%), WI (59%), VT (56%)

Beds - Worst - RI (18%), MD (22%), NV (30%), MA (31%), AL (32%)

Beds - Best - WY (58%), ID (57%), ND (56%), KS, WI (53%)

Alabama has been getting recognition as a state in need, but MD & RI are on both worst lists and I haven't much much about them.
 

It's interesting seeing these numbers. I can't speak for other areas, but my hospital is typically at 80%+ capacity year round, and it's not unusual to be 95%+ in winter. Healthcare admin like those numbers, and they aren't too happy about the overall low census we've seen since COVID arrived. Basically the business model of hospitals plans on being near capacity all the time, and surges aren't well accommodated, particularly when the people getting admitted use up specialty beds like those required by isolated and ICU patients.

Among other big societal changes in response to the pandemic, we badly need to rethink our healthcare system.

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Drove by a restaurant in Bradenton, FL last night around 8:30 and it was absolutely packed. Every table looked occupied and didn’t see a mask in sight by staff. I guess everything’s back to normal. 

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6 hours ago, the moops said:

Hate those ####### things

I generally dont mind them, especially in a college town when its kids just having fun. They make me laugh, they're so stupid. I just think it's too soon for something like that.

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27 minutes ago, Osaurus said:

Drove by a restaurant in Bradenton, FL last night around 8:30 and it was absolutely packed. Every table looked occupied and didn’t see a mask in sight by staff. I guess everything’s back to normal. 

Masks being mandated in Tampa if you’re indoors starting today at 5 pm. 
 

I don’t know how you enforce that, but maybe it will get some attention. You’d need local business owners turning customers away for non-compliance. 

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11 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't think I could possibly enjoy going out to a bar or restaurant right now even if it were free.  We've done take out a couple of times and I'm all in favor of that, but I won't be doing any on-site dining or drinking any time soon. 

 

11 hours ago, bentley said:

I’ve done open air patios. Masked up until we get to the table and on the way out. Tables separated by 10 feet or more. Rules a lot of places out, but there are a few around where we feel comfortable.

I've felt like IK for a while and still do.  But we did finally agree to go to a family dinner at a restaurant and sat on their patio.  My concern level there was pretty low as we had nobody near us and the waitress wore a mask.  I definitely don't want to sit inside yet.

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In summer camp news, Pinecove Ridge in Ohio will close two weeks as 14.6% of staff and campers tested positive.  None showed symptoms.  

This is one of 11 Pinecove facilities and it's the only one with an outbreak.  

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Rhode Island sits at 19.97% of it's population tested, while Idaho comes in at 3.87%.  How can one state have tested 5 times more of it's people than the other?  Is Idaho giving away their tests?

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3 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

It's interesting seeing these numbers. I can't speak for other areas, but my hospital is typically at 80%+ capacity year round, and it's not unusual to be 95%+ in winter. Healthcare admin like those numbers, and they aren't too happy about the overall low census we've seen since COVID arrived. Basically the business model of hospitals plans on being near capacity all the time, and surges aren't well accommodated, particularly when the people getting admitted use up specialty beds like those required by isolated and ICU patients.

Among other big societal changes in response to the pandemic, we badly need to rethink our healthcare system.

Yes, when you think of hospitals as just another business, they need "customers" to remain open.  They just don't want it to be Black Friday for several days/weeks/months in a row.

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14 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

I refuse to accept that level of deaths. Other countries have proven it's possible to get a better handle on this thing.

And thank you for your service.

I don't think the virus much cares

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19 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Rhode Island sits at 19.97% of it's population tested, while Idaho comes in at 3.87%.  How can one state have tested 5 times more of it's people than the other?  Is Idaho giving away their tests?

I poop bigger states than rhode islsnd

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25 minutes ago, culdeus said:

In summer camp news, Pinecove Ridge in Ohio will close two weeks as 14.6% of staff and campers tested positive.  None showed symptoms.  

This is one of 11 Pinecove facilities and it's the only one with an outbreak.  

I know you've been a big proponent of summer camps but I've always kinda felt you're asking for a boatload of issues if something like this happens. Seems like a bad idea to have any of these mass group things until...I don't know when.

Case in point, there is an in person trade show in Orlando late July. It seems like the epitome of stupidity to me to invite 5,000 people to a convention center for a half day event in what is becoming a hotspot for the virus.

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19 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Yes, when you think of hospitals as just another business, they need "customers" to remain open.  They just don't want it to be Black Friday for several days/weeks/months in a row.

Sure, but when healthcare providers are incentivized to treat more “customers”, you create a situation where unnecessary business is welcomed rather than discouraged.

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7 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Sure, but when healthcare providers are incentivized to treat more “customers”, you create a situation where unnecessary business is welcomed rather than discouraged.

 

29 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Yes, when you think of hospitals as just another business, they need "customers" to remain open.  They just don't want it to be Black Friday for several days/weeks/months in a row.

So, maybe we shouldn't treat hospitals and health care as "just another business"?

Kinda like we don't treat the fire department or water treatment and delivery of clean water as just another business.

Common good and all...

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18 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

 

So, maybe we shouldn't treat hospitals and health care as "just another business"?

Kinda like we don't treat the fire department or water treatment and delivery of clean water as just another business.

Common good and all...

Believe me, I agree 100%.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, Payne said:

I honestly don't know how some of you sleep at night. Are you constantly anxious and nervous? 

My family has done takeout since the beginning. Just had our first dine-in experience this past weekend. And I live next door to Detroit, a very large hot spot. 

Wash your hands. Wear a mask when needed. Cannot live in fear.   

Well, after a timeout that completely flummoxes me and then a recent stint in ICU for a pulmonary embolism, I'm trying to get caught up on this thread. Needless to say, the fact that Covid would likely be the end of me, yea, I am a little nervous an anxious right now. Hopefully that's ok when you consider, in three weeks since San Antonio and Bexar County were forced to open up with no mask rules in place due to a Governor with the IQ of a rock:

- The average age of infected people has dropped from 43.5 years old to 35.8

- Average age of hospitalized patients have dropped from 55.6 to 48.7

- We went from under 50 cases per day to over a week straight approaching 500

- ICU is up by a factor of 5

I mean think about that. This virus has been around how long now? And the average age of a hospitalized patient has dropped SEVEN years in just three weeks (those stats were from Monday). They are reporting rises in both teen and twenty-somethings in ICU requiring breathing assistance. The fact is, people counted on people, especially young people that feel invulnerable, to do the right thing. And it has been an unmitigated disaster. The Infectious Disease Center head has stated at the current trajectory we will be out of beds by July 20th. For the city, and for at risk people like myself, it is just scary stuff. Especially when we likely haven't even begun to see the protest surge yet.

Edited by DallasDMac
Grammar and spelling
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54 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I poop bigger states than rhode islsnd

Haha, Rhode Island wasn't really the point.  Idaho doesn't even have 2M people.  Are they using their tests on their famous potatoes?

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57 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I know you've been a big proponent of summer camps but I've always kinda felt you're asking for a boatload of issues if something like this happens. Seems like a bad idea to have any of these mass group things until...I don't know when.

Case in point, there is an in person trade show in Orlando late July. It seems like the epitome of stupidity to me to invite 5,000 people to a convention center for a half day event in what is becoming a hotspot for the virus.

Seems to me the epitome of stupidity is not inviting 5K people to a convention center - it would be the 5K attendees who arrive voluntarily

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Here in Southwest Louisiana we have a surge in cases that's troubling.  Three weeks ago our parish (200,000 population) was having 3-5 new cases daily and things were opening up.  Now, there have been multiple outbreaks, at three local bars, a petrochemical plant and a nursing home.  Our daily average number of cases is over 20 per day.  Lot's of people are saying we opened up too early.  That's not the case.  There was absolutely no reason not to open.  The problem is that we never had a major issue and people are just not taking it seriously. Mask usage is minimal and the 20-somethings went straight back to the bars in large numbers when they reopened.  People are in denial about the seriousness of the disease and the need for caution.  I am hopeful that the news about the surge will spur people to better behavior.  I don't think another shutdown order will be well-received.  

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Sorry if this has been posted already but it appears that on iPhone and Android phones - updates have been installed to allow COVID-19 exposure logging and tracking (it isn’t automatically turned on but you can turn it on yourself),

For iPhone - go to ‘Settings’ followed by ‘Health‘ and it’s right there - ‘COVID-19 Exposure Tracking’.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Witz said:

Sorry if this has been posted already but it appears that on iPhone and Android phones - updates have been installed to allow COVID-19 exposure logging and tracking (it isn’t automatically turned on but you can turn it on yourself),

For iPhone - go to ‘Settings’ followed by ‘Health‘ and it’s right there - ‘COVID-19 Exposure Tracking’.

Nothing on my wife or I's phone, one Apple, one Android.

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4 minutes ago, worrierking said:

Here in Southwest Louisiana we have a surge in cases that's troubling.  Three weeks ago our parish (200,000 population) was having 3-5 new cases daily and things were opening up.  Now, there have been multiple outbreaks, at three local bars, a petrochemical plant and a nursing home.  Our daily average number of cases is over 20 per day.  Lot's of people are saying we opened up too early.  That's not the case.  There was absolutely no reason not to open.  The problem is that we never had a major issue and people are just not taking it seriously. Mask usage is minimal and the 20-somethings went straight back to the bars in large numbers when they reopened.  People are in denial about the seriousness of the disease and the need for caution.  I am hopeful that the news about the surge will spur people to better behavior.  I don't think another shutdown order will be well-received.  

So, what's it gonna take for the 20-somethings to take the virus seriously?  I would bet most don't know a single person who has gotten even the sniffles from the virus.

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5 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

So, what's it gonna take for the 20-somethings to take the virus seriously?  I would bet most don't know a single person who has gotten even the sniffles from the virus.

Its going to either take someone relatively young and famous to die from the virus or someone in their family. 

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17 minutes ago, Witz said:

Sorry if this has been posted already but it appears that on iPhone and Android phones - updates have been installed to allow COVID-19 exposure logging and tracking (it isn’t automatically turned on but you can turn it on yourself),

For iPhone - go to ‘Settings’ followed by ‘Health‘ and it’s right there - ‘COVID-19 Exposure Tracking’.

 

 

So close!!!  Should have gone the other way....default to "on" and allow us to turn "off" if we choose...dumb.

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3 minutes ago, Pipes said:

Its going to either take someone relatively young and famous to die from the virus or someone in their family. 

Exactly.  We can get mad all we want at the younger crowd, but they won't change until it hits home.  They have to experience it for themselves.  How many times has someone told you not to touch a plate, because it's hot?  For me, that sentence literally means I MUST touch the plate.

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11 hours ago, the moops said:
13 hours ago, jamny said:

One thing I saw in Boise that I thought was totally ridiculous and unnecessary were those Pedal Pubs. driving around the streets. Sure, everyone face each other and yell and scream. :wall: 

Hate those ####### things

:goodposting: They're terrible

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2 hours ago, beer 30 said:
16 hours ago, cap'n grunge said:

I refuse to accept that level of deaths. Other countries have proven it's possible to get a better handle on this thing.

And thank you for your service.

I don't think the virus much cares

Seems like it does in other countries :shrug: 

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Coronavirus: Florida reports another 3,822 cases of COVID-19, new one-day record

DeSantis is holding a conference at noon at FIU in Miami. There's no turning back the opening, but I could see stricter enforcement of the rules. There's also the dynamics between the City of Miami Mayor, Francisco Suarez, and county mayor, Carlos Gimenez. Suarez rightly shutdown Ultra and Calle Ocho festivals in early March, while Gimenez said he wouldn't have if it were his call.

 

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/06/17/another-coronavirus-closure-would-be-tough-but-miami-mayor-wont-rule-it-out/

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Coronavirus: Florida reports another 3,822 cases of COVID-19, new one-day record

DeSantis is holding a conference at noon at FIU in Miami. There's no turning back the opening, but I could see stricter enforcement of the rules. There's also the dynamics between the City of Miami Mayor, Francisco Suarez, and county mayor, Carlos Gimenez. Suarez rightly shutdown Ultra and Calle Ocho festivals in early March, while Gimenez said he wouldn't have if it were his call.

 

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/06/17/another-coronavirus-closure-would-be-tough-but-miami-mayor-wont-rule-it-out/

Every time I see a report that cites a specific number of positive cases, but leaves off the amount of tests, I want to give them a high five for great reporting.

Based on Florida's COVID page and Worldometer, there were 3822 positives out of 18866 tests, for a rate of 20.3%, but I highly doubt that.

Edited by TheWinz

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Just now, TheWinz said:

Every time I see a report that cites a specific number of positive cases, but leaves off the amount of tests, I want to karate chop the reporter in the throat.

Based on Florida's COVID page and Worldometer, there were 3822 positives out of 18866 tests, for a rate of 20.3%, but I highly doubt that.

The daily positive rate is listed in the article for Miami Dade ( 6/16 – 12.8% ,  6/17 – 11.2%, 6/18 – 11%) and Broward ( 6/16 – 9.7%  6/17 – 7.4%, 6/18 – 9.1%).  But not for state. They list the positive rate for the entire state since day 1 at 5.9%. I doubt 20.3% positivity for the entire state in any recent period.

Statewide hospitalizations are ticking up: https://mobile.twitter.com/conarck/status/1273682809819971598

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