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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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3 hours ago, proteus126 said:

Brazil with a BIG day.

For sure.  Per Covid worldometers, Brazil had over 55,000 new cases today!  US had over 33,000 new cases.  Both countries show about  600K of new tests, so that's a positive rate of about 5% for the US and almost 10% positive for Brazil.  Total new cases of over 181,000 is the first time it's ever been above 150,000.  And still twenty countries with over 1,000 new cases, so it's still widespread.  Worldwide, by the end of June we'll have about 10 million cases and over 500,000 reported deaths due to Covid.

In the US, it's kinda weird, kinda frightening to see the recent increase in cases in the past week in a number of states.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, proteus126 said:

Good opportunity to teach your son that life ain't fair.  To count your blessings when things are good.  To appreciate the little routine things.  What a great dose of perspective this pandemic offers, that hopefully will add richness to the rest of his long life.

Thank god this wasn't the 30's and 40's and Job actually had to make some REAL sacrifices with ration cards and being drafted. OMG--my five year old missed his t-ball game--the horror. Let's just let the Japanese have this place.

Stop living vicariously through your child and imposing how YOU feel vs how he feels. I have kids--they understand what is going on. Maybe you need to parent and make this a teachable moment about caring for others . Again this is YOUR issue not your child's--there are plenty of solutions to your kid's issue. 

I am sorry dude, it takes a lot for me to get pissed, but your ####ty attitude deserves to be called out. My mom is 85 and we have done all we can to make sure she stays alive. I am a type one diabetic, supposed I should just call it day so your kid can play tag? I have been here since Cheatsheets with Joe and if I take my first timeout because of this post--so be it. I despise selfish people--don't want to be inconvenienced for a second do ya??

This wasn't directed at you proteus--you were just attempting to be nice and respond to that earlier post.

Edited by Courtjester
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I do not understand the reluctance to wearing masks.  I'm in Rochester, NY & our guidance is (has been) based off of NYC so, for the most part, it is mandatory masks in stores etc.  Almost everyone is very compliant so I'm pissed when I see the occasional outlier.  I see it as being disrespectful to everyone around you.  

 

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Just now, raidergil said:

I do not understand the reluctance to wearing masks.  I'm in Rochester, NY & our guidance is (has been) based off of NYC so, for the most part, it is mandatory masks in stores etc.  Almost everyone is very compliant so I'm pissed when I see the occasional outlier.  I see it as being disrespectful to everyone around you.  

 

Anyone seen any polls as to what percent of the US wears masks while out in stores? Even with NYC being 100% and other large cities, I am guessing the number is well below 50%.

It's so ####### frustrating. There needs to be a mass marketing blitz explaining and shaming people into wearing them

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28 minutes ago, raidergil said:

This could lend itself to 'that other forum' but many places have reported this story about de Blasio instructions to contact tracers to not proactively ask people if they've been to a protest.

Why would that hide a spike? If they tested positive it would still be a positive no matter what questions they ask during contact tracing. Do you think they’re going to ask which dates and where they protested at and then contact trace everyone at that protest?

They’re gonna ask them to list everyone they had close contact with for a prolonged period of time. In the case of the protests, those will likely be the people they went with or they wouldn’t really be able to give any names. If you want to effectively contact trace those people, it’s probably not a good strategy to ask the people who were protesting abuses of authority about who was doing the same with them.

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5 hours ago, The Commish said:

Be tough for me not to respond with "Might be time to look into a new doctor.  I can't believe a physician would say those sorts of things given what we now know"

My money is on her doctor didn't really say that

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So avg age is down to 45?

Ftr new Jersey around here everyone pretty much is masking indoors

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7 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

Thank god this wasn't the 30's and 40's and Job actually had to make some REAL sacrifices with ration cards and being drafted. OMG--my five year old missed his t-ball game--the horror. Let's just let the Japanese have this place.

I keep coming back to a similar point. Come on people.

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2 minutes ago, belljr said:

So avg age is down to 45?

Ftr new Jersey around here everyone pretty much is masking indoors

For what? Infection, it is 35.8 in San Antonio. Hospitalization, 48.7. That was as of Monday.

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29 minutes ago, raidergil said:

I do not understand the reluctance to wearing masks.  I'm in Rochester, NY & our guidance is (has been) based off of NYC so, for the most part, it is mandatory masks in stores etc.  Almost everyone is very compliant so I'm pissed when I see the occasional outlier.  I see it as being disrespectful to everyone around you.  

 

Your head would explode if you were down here in Florida.  Sometimes I feel like an alien because I'm the only person wearing one. 

I was at an auto dealer the other day and not one employee wore them.  The salesman had the audacity to complain that people weren't taking the virus seriously enough...as he spoke to me less than six feet away without a mask.  

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Why did the US shutdown for 3 months but then move to full open when the pandemic continues to escalate?

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All customer facing businesses go back on mandatory masks Monday here. Can't fine the people that don't wear them because, according to Gov Abbott, liberty!!! But businesses can be fined.

Seriously, how did some of these people get elected? I guess we had no way of knowing they'd literally put party loyalty ahead of the lives of people.

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I actually like wearing a mask. It's kind of an extension of my general preference to keep my germs to myself. I'm hoping it never fully goes away honestly.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, raidergil said:

I do not understand the reluctance to wearing masks.  I'm in Rochester, NY & our guidance is (has been) based off of NYC so, for the most part, it is mandatory masks in stores etc.  Almost everyone is very compliant so I'm pissed when I see the occasional outlier.  I see it as being disrespectful to everyone around you.  

 

Cuz this is ‘Merica and ain’t no one gonna tell me what to do. 

Thats the reason why cases in lots of other places are declining and ours are rising again. People get so bent out of shape when the government tells them they have to wear masks, their blinded by the benfits of it

 

Edited by Scoresman
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Maricopa county (Phoenix metro) approves a mask mandate tonight. Of course they had to put in a loophole for people to claim a medical condition prevents them from wearing one without having to provide proof.

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32 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Maricopa county (Phoenix metro) approves a mask mandate tonight. Of course they had to put in a loophole for people to claim a medical condition prevents them from wearing one without having to provide proof.

Is stupid a medical condition? 

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8 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Is stupid a medical condition? 

I could poke the bear a bit since I need to know health conditions to prevent drug-health condition interactions. If I don’t have a health condition on file that would prevent someone from wearing a mask, it would be malpractice for me not to get a full health history.

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4 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Maricopa county (Phoenix metro) approves a mask mandate tonight. Of course they had to put in a loophole for people to claim a medical condition prevents them from wearing one without having to provide proof.

Does that mean I can simply tell the "bouncer" at the grocery store, and they have to let me in?  Or can a store still refuse my entry?

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10 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

HI has 100% indoor mask usage and less than 1000 total cases, many of them imported.  While we’ve seen an uptick in cases the last few days, I think we’ve done an outstanding job.

Aloha, and welcome to the "my state rocks" contest.  Hawaii could've easily went the other way, so yes, they are certainly in the running.  You should hold your head high.  There is no shame finishing behind CT.  😉

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8 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Why did the US shutdown for 3 months but then move to full open when the pandemic continues to escalate?

Politics....and we're pretty selfish as individuals.

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8 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

All customer facing businesses go back on mandatory masks Monday here. Can't fine the people that don't wear them because, according to Gov Abbott, liberty!!! But businesses can be fined.

Seriously, how did some of these people get elected? I guess we had no way of knowing they'd literally put party loyalty ahead of the lives of people.

Isn't this just a twisted way to get to "no shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service"?  Business owner:  "Yeah, I don't like it, but If you don't wear a mask here, I have to pay a fine, so put it on or don't come here".  Sure, it's spineless and completely political, but I guess it's better than nothing :shrug: 

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9 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Your head would explode if you were down here in Florida.  Sometimes I feel like an alien because I'm the only person wearing one. 

I was at an auto dealer the other day and not one employee wore them.  The salesman had the audacity to complain that people weren't taking the virus seriously enough...as he spoke to me less than six feet away without a mask.  

Many of our friends went down to Panama City and beaches on the gulf the last two weeks, they mentioned "COVID just doesn't seem to exist down there"

Meanwhile, Huntsville is now on the COVID-19 Task Force Watch List, which represents any organizations or governments that has more than a 200 percent increase in confirmed cases.

If we don't get our #### together, we're ducked.

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10 hours ago, Slapdash said:

Doesn't Costco still require masks?

Based on everyone wearing masks, probably. My wife and I have been wearing ours anytime we go out so I didn’t look for a sign that said it was required. 
 

We moved here from Texas a couple of weeks ago and during the drive it seemed like Florida was the most stringent on mask-wearing requirements. We spent the night in Mobile and at the hotel, the front desk clerk was wearing a mask and they had a 6-foot line at the front desk. Only one hotel bar was open with signs regarding social distancing. 
 

We stopped at a McDonald’s somewhere in FL and there was an employee at the door to let people in to minimize the number of people inside at one time. Masks were required inside and only one person at a time allowed in the bathroom. Exit was a separate door from the entrance. 
 

Since we’ve been in St. Pete, from what we can tell most people are wearing masks while shopping. I don’t think every store has been requiring them but it’s still good to see that most people are doing it. We haven’t been going out to bars or dining in anywhere so the only thing I know about those places is that St. Pete had to re-close 4 bars after employees tested positive for COVID-19. 

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9 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

All customer facing businesses go back on mandatory masks Monday here. Can't fine the people that don't wear them because, according to Gov Abbott, liberty!!! But businesses can be fined.

Seriously, how did some of these people get elected? I guess we had no way of knowing they'd literally put party loyalty ahead of the lives of people.

Do I, as a bouncer, have the right to deny access to a business, based on someone being unmasked?  Or do I have to let an unmasked person in?  It's a simple question.

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5 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Do I, as a bouncer, have the right to deny access to a business, based on someone being unmasked?  Or do I have to let an unmasked person in?  It's a simple question.

May depend on the state.  I imagine in most states businesses can proactively enforce a mask policy (e.g. here in CT, individual businesses can allow dogs or not), but there may be a few where it is not allowed.

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8 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Do I, as a bouncer, have the right to deny access to a business, based on someone being unmasked?  Or do I have to let an unmasked person in?  It's a simple question.

The ABC store near me here in VA absolutely won't let you in without a mask. I know this because it happened to me. I had just forgotten to put it on, so went back to my car and rectified that. 

Other places, I haven't seen reject anyone not wearing one even though they had "mandatory mask" signs up.

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On 6/18/2020 at 5:15 PM, renesauz said:

I've been a bit busy lately to poke my head into these threads. I'm an ICU RN and have seen plenty of COVID first hand. It's amazing how long a COVID patient can remain ill, and how incredibly sick they can become. The overwhelming majority of deaths are older sickly people to begin with, but I've seen more then a few fairly healthy 30, 40 year olds spend 2 weeks plus on a vent and a couple end up with a trach heading to weeks of rehab. Kind of scary.

 

But here's the problem many people have lost sight of in this as we start to open back up a little. Social distancing, masks, etc....were NEVER going to beat this. It was already too widespread, and too contagious to work. 40-60% of us were going to catch it no matter what we did. The draconion measures we took were to FLATTEN THE CURVE, not eliminate the bug. They worked...in most places, health care facilities weren't over-run, and we've allowed the supply chain to pick up a little on critical gear. But unless we want to spend another year in full isolation with most businesses closed down, we're still gonna have to go through the pain....we're still going to have 3, 4, maybe 12 or 14 hundred thousand die. There's no easy answers there.

Opening most things up but requiring masks almost everywhere is the logical step to take IMO....and cases will stay steady or rise slightly in most areas...but that's kind of the point! YES>>>PEOPLE WILL GET SICK AND DIE! But people were going to get sick and die anyway, we cant stop that. We just need to find the sweet spot where our facilities can keep up well enough to save those they can save (IE: actually have ICU beds and vents and enough staff to work them) while allowing this thing to work it's way through us so we can get to the other side and get back to a normal life. Not an easy thing to do, and not easy decisions for our leaders to make, so I really think we need to keep that in mind as we talk about it. 

 

9 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Why did the US shutdown for 3 months but then move to full open when the pandemic continues to escalate?

@JetMaxxSee your answer above.

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25 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

The Rt Live website just made a major model update.  Have a look...

https://rt.live/

Thanks for this....Just got email this AM from them responding to my question from two weeks ago and pointed me to the FAQ....worth the read.

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34 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

The Rt Live website just made a major model update.  Have a look...

https://rt.live/

Just briefly glanced at it but it already looks much more representative of what is happening. I'm glad because I had given up on it since their last update.

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19 hours ago, proteus126 said:

On the good news front, Maryland has really done well with the numbers lately.

 

We were seeing 1000 new cases per day in May, with a positivity rate declining from 20% to 10% through that month.  1700 total beds and 600 ICU beds being used at the worst.

Our current 7-day positivity rate is 5.4%, and we are falling through 300 new cases per day.  Total in-use beds now 650, and ICU beds 260, so less than half the peak.

Why?  The big counties (MoCo and PG) were slow to reopen, and the populace is well-educated and seems cautious.  We'll see how we do going forward.  I think Florida and Arizona will sober a lot of people up in the next 30 days, assuming they go full blown.  Good luck all!

That’s great to hear, Virginia has really been trending in the right direction as well. Hopefully we see more of this soon in some of the current hot spots. 

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yeah I like the new update...I agree, it matches what we are seeing.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheWinz said:

Do I, as a bouncer, have the right to deny access to a business, based on someone being unmasked?  Or do I have to let an unmasked person in?  It's a simple question.

I'm not sure. The mayor just announced the change and didn't get in to that level of detail. I'm hoping they can turn them away, but I can't say for sure.

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29 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Thanks for this....Just got email this AM from them responding to my question from two weeks ago and pointed me to the FAQ....worth the read.

Thanks for pointing this out. Obviously I love that they are including the amount of tests in their calculation with the blue line. Should really make this the go-to reference now for an overview of what's happening.

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Isn't this just a twisted way to get to "no shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service"?  Business owner:  "Yeah, I don't like it, but If you don't wear a mask here, I have to pay a fine, so put it on or don't come here".  Sure, it's spineless and completely political, but I guess it's better than nothing :shrug: 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love that the Mayor and Judge took the step. I'm not happy they had too. Our Mayor and the Mayors of just about every large city in the state wrote the Governor and asked to be allowed to mandate masks city-wide. Not state wide mind you, city wide for those suffering spikes. But the Governor simply refused, so we are left stuck looking for loopholes to work around his idiotic stance. Meanwhile we edge closer to overwhelming our healthcare system. It's lunacy.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Scoresman said:

Cuz this is ‘Merica and ain’t no one gonna tell me what to do. 

Thats the reason why cases in lots of other places are declining and ours are rising again. People get so bent out of shape when the government tells them they have to wear masks, their blinded by the benfits of it

 

Billionaire investor Paul Tudor Jones said a couple months ago that America's greatest strength, its pursuit of freedom and liberty, will be its biggest weakness during the pandemic.  

I don't necessarily agree that it's our greatest strength at this point in history, but it's definitely a big weakness.

Edited by Captain Cranks
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20 minutes ago, jamny said:

Thanks for pointing this out. Obviously I love that they are including the amount of tests in their calculation with the blue line. Should really make this the go-to reference now for an overview of what's happening.

:hifive: 

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19 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love that the Mayor and Judge took the step. I'm not happy they had too. Our Mayor and the Mayors of just about every large city in the state wrote the Governor and asked to be allowed to mandate masks city-wide. Not state wide mind you, city wide for those suffering spikes. But the Governor simply refused, so we are left stuck looking for loopholes to work around his idiotic stance. Meanwhile we edge closer to overwhelming our healthcare system. It's lunacy.

The whack-a-mole approach seems to be the popular choice as it allows our leadership the opportunity to punt to lower levels...that tone was set at the federal level and has trickled down to the states...well some states.  Most of them have an obvious thing in common, but that's for the PSF.

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20 hours ago, proteus126 said:

On the good news front, Maryland has really done well with the numbers lately.

 

We were seeing 1000 new cases per day in May, with a positivity rate declining from 20% to 10% through that month.  1700 total beds and 600 ICU beds being used at the worst.

Our current 7-day positivity rate is 5.4%, and we are falling through 300 new cases per day.  Total in-use beds now 650, and ICU beds 260, so less than half the peak.

Why?  The big counties (MoCo and PG) were slow to reopen, and the populace is well-educated and seems cautious.  We'll see how we do going forward.  I think Florida and Arizona will sober a lot of people up in the next 30 days, assuming they go full blown.  Good luck all!

Also, the biggest city in the state (Baltimore) has been very slow to open up.  I think our helps that there are big hospital and public health entities in the city (UMD and Hopkins).

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, The Commish said:

The whack-a-mole approach seems to be the popular choice as it allows our leadership the opportunity to punt to lower levels...that tone was set at the federal level and has trickled down to the states...well some states.  Most of them have an obvious thing in common, but that's for the PSF.

Oh, there is no doubt Governor Abbott worships at the feet of his orange-skinned god. I'm just stunned that ANY governor would be fine with risking the lives of his constituents for ANY reason, yet alone one as pathetic as that. From reading this thread, I realize he is not alone in that.

Edited by DallasDMac
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14 hours ago, jamny said:

Any speculation on why the protests didn't make the numbers in places like NYC and Minnesota go up?

Outdoors and decent mask utilisation?

We'll see reports from contact tracing if the protests were a big contributor or not.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DallasDMac said:

I'm not sure. The mayor just announced the change and didn't get in to that level of detail. I'm hoping they can turn them away, but I can't say for sure.

That's the thing that would piss me off more than anything.  If you don't want to wear a mask outside and not in a crowd (maintaining distance), ok, I can pretty much get with that. If states allow stores to not require customers to wear masks, ok, just make that clear to others. But a store should have the right to deny entry if you're not wearing a mask. It's not an equal rights issue or discrimination of handicapped individuals. 

Edited by -OZ-
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The median age of those with positive tests in Florida has dropped from the 60s to 37. In PB, Broward and Miami Dade, it is now 40, 41 and 33. If these people don't transmit it to their older family members, there's hope that hospitals won't be overwhelmed. There's plenty of ICU capacity in Miami Dade.

https://www.wptv.com/news/state/florida-gov-ron-desantis-to-give-coronavirus-update-at-florida-international-university

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1 hour ago, jamny said:

Thanks for pointing this out. Obviously I love that they are including the amount of tests in their calculation with the blue line. Should really make this the go-to reference now for an overview of what's happening.

Agreed.  Anything showing CT in 1st place has to be spot on, but I don't think @Terminalxylem  will be too thrilled.

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New redneck battle-cry Im seeing on FB.... "I aint weain' no face mask. It's illegal to wear a face covering when carrying a concealed weapon with a permit.".... MERICA!

Bar down the road opened this week. Its been packed every day. Talked to someone who works there and asked what they're doing for social distancing. She said "You get 2 warnings before being fined. We're fully open with no restrictions whatsoever until that happens." ... MERICA!

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4 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

Agreed.  Anything showing CT in 1st place has to be spot on, but I don't think @Terminalxylem  will be too thrilled.

It’s easy to destroy your Rt when you have 3 cases or less daily for a couple weeks. But I am concerned with the recent spike, as it includes our first nursing home outbreak.

But I’ll take less than 1000 total cases over 45K+ any day. Your population is less than 3x ours, and even though overall population density is higher in CT, I’m willing to bet the percentage of people living in close proximity is greater on island, as a lot of our terrain is mountainous/volcanic/jungle and uninhabitable.

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16 hours ago, IrishTwinkie said:

This is a a huge issue and speaks to why the attitudes that we just need to protect the ones in danger and we'll be cool are so frustrationing. 

 

My MIL got admitted to the hospital. She isn't doing great. Anytime DNRs become part of the conversation you know it isn't awesome. No one was allowed to go with her. Zero support from her loved ones minus phone calls. She spent 5 days in the hospital. Nothing to do with Covid, but Covid is getting in the way of everything. While she was there, a long term (think 70+ year friendship) friend passed. That funeral is tomorrow. We haven't told my mother-in-law. She can't go and doesn't have anyone there to help her bear the news. And this is one is going hurt deeply.  Forget the economy. I just want to get to a point where we can help each other get through this test  called life with some human compassion. This whole situation is breaking my heart.  

I've seen waaaaay too much of this. We went from programs that made sure that "nobody dies alone" to not letting anyone visit at all. Now it's a single visitor a day ONLY if you're not COVID. 

Lost among the numbers are other deaths. Domestic violence and suicides are WAAAAY up. Doctors are missing stuff they wouldn't have missed before because they're so focused on COVID. And all of the extra precautions we take to tresat people definitely interferes with care.

 

I think that when it's all said and done we're going to find that more of us have had COVID then we thought. IE: Its far more widespread then the current testing indicates, and more people have carried it without knowing it. That might mean that we get through it a bit quicker then some models predict now. Testing has focused on symptomatic cases only except for some studies. We probably should have tested all of our health care workers, but if we did we might not like the results.

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3 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

It’s easy to destroy your Rt when you have 3 cases or less daily for a couple weeks. But I am concerned with the recent spike, as it includes our first nursing home outbreak.

But I’ll take less than 1000 total cases over 45K+ any day. Your population is less than 3x ours, and even though overall population density is higher in CT, I’m willing to bet the percentage of people living in close proximity is greater on island, as a lot of our terrain is mountainous/volcanic/jungle and uninhabitable.

Yeah, we got hammered at the start.  Our nursing home folks in the southwest corner of the state were dropping like flies.  The only reason we are #1 right now is because we were bottom of the barrel earlier. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ron Swanson said:

 

On 6/18/2020 at 5:15 PM, renesauz said:

I've been a bit busy lately to poke my head into these threads. I'm an ICU RN and have seen plenty of COVID first hand. It's amazing how long a COVID patient can remain ill, and how incredibly sick they can become. The overwhelming majority of deaths are older sickly people to begin with, but I've seen more then a few fairly healthy 30, 40 year olds spend 2 weeks plus on a vent and a couple end up with a trach heading to weeks of rehab. Kind of scary.

 

But here's the problem many people have lost sight of in this as we start to open back up a little. Social distancing, masks, etc....were NEVER going to beat this. It was already too widespread, and too contagious to work. 40-60% of us were going to catch it no matter what we did. The draconion measures we took were to FLATTEN THE CURVE, not eliminate the bug. They worked...in most places, health care facilities weren't over-run, and we've allowed the supply chain to pick up a little on critical gear. But unless we want to spend another year in full isolation with most businesses closed down, we're still gonna have to go through the pain....we're still going to have 3, 4, maybe 12 or 14 hundred thousand die. There's no easy answers there.

Opening most things up but requiring masks almost everywhere is the logical step to take IMO....and cases will stay steady or rise slightly in most areas...but that's kind of the point! YES>>>PEOPLE WILL GET SICK AND DIE! But people were going to get sick and die anyway, we cant stop that. We just need to find the sweet spot where our facilities can keep up well enough to save those they can save (IE: actually have ICU beds and vents and enough staff to work them) while allowing this thing to work it's way through us so we can get to the other side and get back to a normal life. Not an easy thing to do, and not easy decisions for our leaders to make, so I really think we need to keep that in mind as we talk about it. 

 

13 hours ago, JetMaxx said:

Why did the US shutdown for 3 months but then move to full open when the pandemic continues to escalate?

@JetMaxxSee your answer above.

Doesn't excuse all the idiots who fight basic measures such as masking...which is the logical step to take while opening back up. We've been generally good about it here in SE VA, and numbers at my hospital have (so far) remained fairly flat.

 

On a more.......morbid....note....keep in mind that as we look at the death tolls, that many, most actually, of these deaths are pretty unhealthy people to begin with. A significant percentage of these folks were in their last couple of years of life, years which would have been largely spent in hospitals and rehab facilities fighting their various ailments. I'm not saying that their lives don't matter,  but we might well see a slight down-tick in deaths from other illnesses for a couple of years. I wrote above we're missing some current deaths in the totals, but I guess we're also COUNTING some current deaths in these totals also that would have likely died anyway.

 

None of this is easy

Edited by renesauz
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16 hours ago, jamny said:

Any speculation on why the protests didn't make the numbers in places like NYC and Minnesota go up?

I think what we learned from the protests is that the virus doesn't spread very well outdoors, and also masks are good.  (As a reminder, the government lied to us about masks for the first couple of months of the pandemic).

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