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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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Just now, matuski said:
10 minutes ago, Sand said:

That's great.  Probably a pipe dream but the general wisdom is that these bugs evolve into less virulent forms over time.  One can only hope that were starting to see that.

I think it is more the fact that new cases are kids at bars and gyms.  Younger population.

Going from memory, but it looks like all the increasing states of late (AZ, TX, SC, FL, etc.) are seeing about half of their new infections in young adults. Accordingly, so far as I can tell in the immediate moment, this is keeping raw hospitalization numbers lower than they could be.

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Which is frustrating - we have repoened and people are doing a good job distancing in public, restaurants, etc.  Not many wearing masks except wear required... and it has worked.

Then you have kids crowding into bars and effing it up again.

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Posted (edited)

Here is my covid story over the last week.

Wife has been taking care of her mom who is diagnosed with cancer, pretty much living over there the last three weeks (school teacher not working in summer).

She picked up the virus, I am assuming at one of the dr. visits but who knows.  She called me last thursday flipping out that she couldn't smell anything and felt crappy, shes going to get tested.  I hadn't seen her since the Saturday before since she was at her moms all week.    I immediately packed up me and the boys and went to our lake place.  She tested postive...

Somehow her mom didn't get it, I have no clue how, she would have surely died I'm assuming and my wife would have blamed herself I'm sure.  I got tested Saturday same day as her mom (yea its like shoving a pop sickle stick up to your brain), I didn't have it either, that said I wasn't worried anyways because I really haven't been around her and if I did get it I'm not scared of it killing me anyways.

All and all Wife is fine as of now, basically a two day flu more in her case which is great.  and the bonus part is I get to work from the lake all week and into next week.

Edited by mozzy84
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14 minutes ago, Doug B said:

If @Mr Anonymous returns to this thread, I know he'll have some choice words for those who want it both ways -- everything opened up like February, but no face coverings either.

Those folks probably each want warm apple pie and a pony, too.

meh....it's pretty clear he didn't care about "guidelines" unless they opened up in a fashion stricter than what was outlined.  I haven't seen a single comment from him condemning the states opening outside the guidelines OR the states not shutting back down in accordance with  "guidelines".

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24 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

Knowledge: "We can open up slowly and safely if we wear masks."

U.S.A.: "Yeah we're not doing that."

Insert "test and trace" for "wear masks", same response. 

Pretty much.

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29 minutes ago, matuski said:

Which is frustrating - we have repoened and people are doing a good job distancing in public, restaurants, etc.  Not many wearing masks except wear required... and it has worked.

Then you have kids crowding into bars and effing it up again.

For the most part, people are wearing masks around here, but social distancing? No one must have learned basic math as a kid. It's a real life game of frogger

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I'm floored by the numerous reports in here of folks finding nobody in masks. In Virginia, you can't enter many businesses without masking. I went into a grocery store yesterday that not only had someone at the door enforcing masks, but they had giant buckets of cheap plastic gloves they were asking everyone to put on when they entered! Masking here approaches 100% except in restaurants...where all the severs stay masked and most tables are 6 feet apart.

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32 minutes ago, matuski said:

Which is frustrating - we have repoened and people are doing a good job distancing in public, restaurants, etc.  Not many wearing masks except wear required... and it has worked.

Then you have kids crowding into bars and effing it up again.

you're lucky....that's not been the case here.  I can't figure it out in my local stores though.  I'll go one day and it seems no one gives a crap, then 3-4 days later go into the same store and damn near everyone is doing what they are supposed to.  I CAN say, the latter is happening less and less...we are definitely trending to "not a good job" on a consistent basis, but some days it's damn near perfect.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, hispeedthinmint said:

For the most part, people are wearing masks around here, but social distancing? No one must have learned basic math as a kid. It's a real life game of frogger

Just the opposite here (MI).  Very few masks, but distancing seems OK.  Unfortunately, the social distancing is being applied to driving as well.  Slow drivers leaving 60 car lengths between them and the car in front of them :angry:

Edited by Keerock
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California has been all over the place too.  Masks required to get into stores, but bars and restaurants are open and obviously no masks there.  Fast food joints are still to-go / drive through only.

Downtown Santa Barbara is doing it right.  They shut down State St. (the main drag through downtown) and turned it into a promenade.  You can walk down the middle of the street, and they have installed temporary fencing on the sidewalks / partially into the streets so bars and restaurants can offer outdoor seating.  It's going to be this way until September at least, and hoping they keep it this way... have a trip planned up there in early October and I'd be fine with things like that.  Mask up when you're walking around, mask off when you're eating.  Hand sanitizer on your person at all times.

I'm curious to see how the next 3-4 weeks go around here.  

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Masks mandatory in these South Florida cities after coronavirus ‘spike’ Hospitalizations trending upward in Miami-Dade County

BREAKING: The mayors of seven Miami-Dade cities Monday announced new rules requiring people to wear face masks anywhere in public, a response to rising numbers of COVID-19 infections and hospitalizations — a measure they conceded will be tough to enforce.

I think a mask should be on my person when I'm outside, in case i come near someone,  but why should I wear a mask when I'm outside and 10 meters from the nearest person. 

Positive cases are way up, hospitizations are going up, but the use of ICU beds and ventilators is still low. These new cases are younger with less severe symptoms when hospitalized.

FIU created some good visualizations: https://rwilli5.github.io/MiamiCovidProject/Trajectory/

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5 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Masks mandatory in these South Florida cities after coronavirus ‘spike’ Hospitalizations trending upward in Miami-Dade County

BREAKING: The mayors of seven Miami-Dade cities Monday announced new rules requiring people to wear face masks anywhere in public, a response to rising numbers of COVID-19 infections and hospitalizations — a measure they conceded will be tough to enforce.

I think a mask should be on my person when I'm outside, in case i come near someone,  but why should I wear a mask when I'm outside and 10 meters from the nearest person. 

Positive cases are way up, hospitizations are going up, but the use of ICU beds and ventilators is still low. These new cases are younger with less severe symptoms when hospitalized.

FIU created some good visualizations: https://rwilli5.github.io/MiamiCovidProject/Trajectory/

They had a woman from FIU on "Florida Roundup" last week on NPR...absolutely killed it.  I just wish the people that needed to hear it listened to NPR...that's the rub...I'm not sure what preaching to the choir is going to do at this point.

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12 minutes ago, nirad3 said:

Downtown Santa Barbara is doing it right.  They shut down State St. (the main drag through downtown) and turned it into a promenade.  You can walk down the middle of the street, and they have installed temporary fencing on the sidewalks / partially into the streets so bars and restaurants can offer outdoor seating.  It's going to be this way until September at least, and hoping they keep it this way...

My little town did the same!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, matuski said:

New rumblings from South and Central Texas.

Increased hospitalizations, but the cases are generally not severe.  Still no worry about over running the hospitals but out of precaution may start limiting elective procedures and possibly a brief shut down in July.

What are you talking about? In Bexar County, in two weeks, ICU has gone from 43 to 133. People on ventilators have gone from 26 to 64. Hospitalizations overall from 96 to 406. I guess technically people in ICU have "only" gone up over 3x while hospitalizations have gone up 4x. But saying cases are not severe looking at those numbers sure seems disingenuous at best. Even the idiotic Governor had to acknowledge it today:

“Surely the public can understand if those spikes continue, additional measures are going to be necessary to maintain the health and wellbeing of Texans,” Abbott said. “If we were to experience another doubling over the next month, that would mean we are in an urgent situation where tougher actions will be required.”

Edited by DallasDMac
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6 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Same here.  I can tell you from first-hand experience that I have gone to the gym in the past many, many times when I had a cold, and I'm sure I'm not alone.  Our gym reopened back on June 1 and I haven't been once.  As long as the weather holds, I'm planning on just using the good old outdoors for as long as possible.  If it happens to be a rainy day, I'll take the unscheduled day off and roll with it.

Rainy days are for push-ups, sit-ups, planks, or squats.  Also if you need weights at home fill a backpack up with books or fill a jug up with water.  Plenty of good workouts can be done at home.

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3 minutes ago, the moops said:

That is a pretty slick site.

Also - I never realized drowning was such a problem

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9 minutes ago, the moops said:

That is a pretty slick site.

Yup. They do impressive stuff with data presentation. Powerpoint on steroids.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

What are you talking about? In Bexar County, in two weeks, ICU has gone from 43 to 133. People on ventilators have gone from 26 to 64. Hospitalizations overall from 96 to 406. I guess technically people in ICU have "only" gone up over 3x while hospitalizations have gone up 4x. But saying cases are not severe looking at those numbers sure seems disingenuous at best. Even the idiotic Governor had to acknowledge it today:

“Surely the public can understand if those spikes continue, additional measures are going to be necessary to maintain the health and wellbeing of Texans,” Abbott said. “If we were to experience another doubling over the next month, that would mean we are in an urgent situation where tougher actions will be required.”

Doubling, tripling, quadrupling the tiny baseline we had.... makes for great headlines, but in fact those numbers empirically are not scary.  133 people in ICU simply isn't a big number.  406 hospitalizations simply isn't a threat to the system.  A blip, for now.

I'm in these hospitals everyday, I am relaying what the surgeons are saying... just as before.

It is notable that things have gone from zero concern to it being on their radar.  They are mostly worried about not being able to do elective procedures though, not so much the system being threatened.

 

Edited by matuski

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21 minutes ago, the moops said:

Also - I never realized drowning was such a problem

Yeah seriously, that's insane. Wonder where cancer, auto crashes, etc would rank on there. 

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28 minutes ago, the moops said:

That is a pretty slick site.

I was trying to figure out an empathetic way to say how cool that was.

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Texas Gov says that if active cases double from here he might think about maybe doing something.

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10 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

That's where my mom, about to turn 90, is. She rarely ventures out. My brother handles most of her groceries. But occasionally she needs something and needs to go out. I need to ask her what percentage of masks she is seeing.

Cleveland area here. In Cuyahoga county (Cleveland metro) I see a higher percentage of mask wearers.  Head west to Lorain county and I see much, much less. It is sad.  We have done a good job up until this point getting this under control here and I'm afraid it may fall apart.

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Idaho has done a great job of opening using the federal guidelines. They went into Phase 4 a few weeks ago.

There has been an increase in cases in Ada County, which includes Boise, and it was just announced they are going back to Phase 3 which closes the bars.

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42 minutes ago, matuski said:

Doubling, tripling, quadrupling the tiny baseline we had.... makes for great headlines, but in fact those numbers empirically are not scary.  133 people in ICU simply isn't a big number.  406 hospitalizations simply isn't a threat to the system.  A blip, for now.

I'm in these hospitals everyday, I am relaying what the surgeons are saying... just as before.

It is notable that things have gone from zero concern to it being on their radar.  They are mostly worried about not being able to do elective procedures though, not so much the system being threatened.

 

And just as before, you are getting your info from physicians who don’t care directly for COVID patients, with financial incentive to dismiss the severity of the pandemic. 

At least somebody is thinking proactively, as it sounds like your hospital admin are discussing reducing elective procedures.

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Rainy days are for push-ups, sit-ups, planks, or squats.  Also if you need weights at home fill a backpack up with books or fill a jug up with water.  Plenty of good workouts can be done at home.

Or you can go outside in the rain. 😱

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, matuski said:

Doubling, tripling, quadrupling the tiny baseline we had.... makes for great headlines, but in fact those numbers empirically are not scary.  133 people in ICU simply isn't a big number.  406 hospitalizations simply isn't a threat to the system.  A blip, for now.

Update, ICU tripled in a WEEK.

So the mayor,  hospital administrators and infectious disease head all say the growth is explosive, is starting to threaten our capacity , and that we are seeing more and more young people with sever symptoms, but you say it's ok. Hmm,  I think I'll go ahead and listen too those without a personal agenda. And training. And credentials. And knowledge. And...

Edit: You know what? I apologize. I don't want to get snarky about this. We disagree on the severity, and that may may be partially tied to our at risk factor. I just have to accept we are never going to agree and live with that.

Edited by DallasDMac
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46 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Texas Gov says that if active cases double from here he might think about maybe doing something.

I'm sure it will include a strongly worded email... mostly about how it isn't his fault.

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12 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Update, ICU tripled in a WEEK.

So the mayor,  hospital administrators and infectious disease head all say the growth is explosive, is starting to threaten our capacity , and that we are seeing more and more young people with sever symptoms, but you say it's ok. Hmm,  I think I'll go ahead and listen too those without a personal agenda. And training. And credentials. And knowledge. And...

And those that have the scariest things to say. 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

And just as before, you are getting your info from physicians who don’t care directly for COVID patients, with financial incentive to dismiss the severity of the pandemic. 

At least somebody is thinking proactively, as it sounds like your hospital admin are discussing reducing elective procedures.

And just as before, you dismiss the downstream collateral damage.  We are still fighting to get through the backlog of patients that weren't able to get treatment from the first shutdown.  

Dismissing ESRD (among many many other disease states) because of COVID.  People needing hemodialysis access aren't getting it.  People aren't getting preventive treatment.

Edited by matuski

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1 hour ago, jamny said:

Idaho has done a great job of opening using the federal guidelines. They went into Phase 4 a few weeks ago.

There has been an increase in cases in Ada County, which includes Boise, and it was just announced they are going back to Phase 3 which closes the bars.

There seems to be a common theme with the bars. It’s not working. Not trying to pick on any one industry, but it seems like bars should remain closed.

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35 minutes ago, matuski said:

And just as before, you dismiss the downstream collateral damage.  We are still fighting to get through the backlog of patients that weren't able to get treatment from the first shutdown.  

Dismissing ESRD (among many many other disease states) because of COVID.  People needing hemodialysis access aren't getting it.  People aren't getting preventive treatment.

You make a valid point above regarding the “Tripling, Quadrupling, etc” headlines that are great for grabbing attention but in many places like an ER a friend works in they were literally all cut back to minimal hours and the docs had to take out over $3MM in a PPP loan for them to survive. When you consider how slow these ER’s in many locations had become throwing around those headlines can be misleading. 

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3 hours ago, hispeedthinmint said:

For the most part, people are wearing masks around here, but social distancing? No one must have learned basic math as a kid. It's a real life game of frogger

I’m in WI.  Barely anyone in my area wears masks.  

Although In Madison area there is a lot higher % of mask wearers.

seems to be county dependent.  Liberal areas = masks.  Conservative areas = very few masks. 

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4 hours ago, Doug B said:

If @Mr Anonymous returns to this thread, I know he'll have some choice words for those who want it both ways -- everything opened up like February, but no face coverings either.

Those folks probably each want warm apple pie and a pony, too.

I still read the thread but the whole discussion just drives me nuts so I'm back to focusing on living my life. People talking about number of cases and not percent positives or hospitalizations was a real fun read for a couple weeks. Now what seems to be missed most often is the number of these new positives as people go back to work and are tested by their employer and how they're springing a positive without symptoms. That's a massively important piece of the puzzle. Now I'm already hearing rumblings about shutting down again over a mass load of asymptomatics. I just can't take it anymore. And that's not even discussing what you mentioned, and what I harped on since March, which is how simply this can be controlled if everyone just wears a friggin' mask. I'm just done.

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24 minutes ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

Liberal areas = masks.  Conservative areas = very few masks. 

Spot on! 

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3 hours ago, renesauz said:

I'm floored by the numerous reports in here of folks finding nobody in masks. In Virginia, you can't enter many businesses without masking. I went into a grocery store yesterday that not only had someone at the door enforcing masks, but they had giant buckets of cheap plastic gloves they were asking everyone to put on when they entered! Masking here approaches 100% except in restaurants...where all the severs stay masked and most tables are 6 feet apart.

Where are you located? I live near Lynchburg, and it's the exact opposite from my experience.

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2 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

Or you can go outside in the rain. 😱

What is this "outside" you speak of?

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1 hour ago, matuski said:

And just as before, you dismiss the downstream collateral damage.  We are still fighting to get through the backlog of patients that weren't able to get treatment from the first shutdown.  

Dismissing ESRD (among many many other disease states) because of COVID.  People needing hemodialysis access aren't getting it.  People aren't getting preventive treatment.

I’m not dismissing collateral damage. I understand surgeons need to earn a living, and some elective surgeries are more urgent than others. Regardless, the opinions of surgeons and medical device reps are far less valuable than those of ID clinicians, epidemiologists, hospitalist and ICU doctors wrt managing a pandemic.

It’s an odd role reversal, to be sure, as surgeons and proceduralists typically have disproportionate influence on hospital policy. But don’t mistake financial concerns for medical necessity, nor expertise relevant to balancing hospital resources during a crisis.

And I have no idea what you mean about ESRD - dialysis and urgent vascular access haven’t been interrupted locally. Perhaps you can link some data?

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29 minutes ago, FBG26 said:

What is this "outside" you speak of?

Granted, in HI I’m spoiled with perfect weather year-round. But I still don’t understand why most people in most places can’t find a reasonably safe form of outdoor recreation to take their minds off bar hopping, eating out, gyms, professional sports, etc. All those things will be back eventually, and a little extra exercise isn’t going to kill you in the meantime.

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45 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

I still read the thread but the whole discussion just drives me nuts so I'm back to focusing on living my life. People talking about number of cases and not percent positives or hospitalizations was a real fun read for a couple weeks. Now what seems to be missed most often is the number of these new positives as people go back to work and are tested by their employer and how they're springing a positive without symptoms. 

So our hospitalizations went up 479% in two weeks because we are testing more people?   :loco:

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

I’m not dismissing collateral damage. I understand surgeons need to earn a living, and some elective surgeries are more urgent than others. Regardless, the opinions of surgeons and medical device reps are far less valuable than those of ID clinicians, epidemiologists, hospitalist and ICU doctors wrt managing a pandemic.

It’s an odd role reversal, to be sure, as surgeons and proceduralists typically have disproportionate influence on hospital policy. But don’t mistake financial concerns for medical necessity, nor expertise relevant to balancing hospital resources during a crisis.

And I have no idea what you mean about ESRD - dialysis and urgent vascular access haven’t been interrupted locally. Perhaps you can link some data?

You again miss the point in your effort to dismiss me.  This game is easy to play right?

The opinions of my hospital staff and surgeons are far more valuable than a pharmacist's.  Unnecessary?  Agreed.

Our vascular access procedures (large enough to be representative) are down significantly.  In theory, these should never become "urgent".  You plan them out in advance, perform interventions to maintain patency, routinely see the patients to monitor for loss of function/infection/aneurysm/etc.  This isn't occurring right now in many cases.  Which is where the debate over what "urgent" means in the first place begins. 

But I think neither of us is really interested in the other at this point.  Have a good evening.

 

Edited by matuski
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52 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

So our hospitalizations went up 479% in two weeks because we are testing more people?   :loco:

And they’re obviously asymptotic, just going to the hospital to get some time off work. Lazy bums. 

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1 hour ago, Terminalxylem said:
1 hour ago, FBG26 said:

What is this "outside" you speak of?

Granted, in HI I’m spoiled with perfect weather year-round. But I still don’t understand why most people in most places can’t find a reasonably safe form of outdoor recreation to take their minds off bar hopping, eating out, gyms, professional sports, etc. All those things will be back eventually, and a little extra exercise isn’t going to kill you in the meantime.

Yeah, I was being somewhat sarcastic. We spend a lot of time outdoors playing in our yard, going for walks, picnics at a park, etc. But we live in suburbia where that's a lot easier. I imagine it's not as easy in areas with lots of high-rise apartments and no green space. 

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2 hours ago, matuski said:

You again miss the point in your effort to dismiss me.  This game is easy to play right?

The opinions of my hospital staff and surgeons are far more valuable than a pharmacist's.  Unnecessary?  Agreed.

Our vascular access procedures (large enough to be representative) are down significantly.  In theory, these should never become "urgent".  You plan them out in advance, perform interventions to maintain patency, routinely see the patients to monitor for loss of function/infection/aneurysm/etc.  This isn't occurring right now in many cases.  Which is where the debate over what "urgent" means in the first place begins. 

But I think neither of us is really interested in the other at this point.  Have a good evening.

 

Sorry, your anecdotal info doesn’t cut it. But I’m glad we agree some hospital staff have more valuable insight than others - surgeons are pretty low on that list.

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1 hour ago, FBG26 said:

Yeah, I was being somewhat sarcastic. We spend a lot of time outdoors playing in our yard, going for walks, picnics at a park, etc. But we live in suburbia where that's a lot easier. I imagine it's not as easy in areas with lots of high-rise apartments and no green space. 

Fair enough, but I wonder what % of people truly have no access to the outdoors vs. choosing to complain about activities that aren’t available or practical atm.

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19 hours ago, stbugs said:

Yep. I was unfortunately trying to “support” someone I probably shouldn’t have.

I should have stayed out of it. It’s truly just pure bad luck to know that many under 40.

It's all good and I'm sorry if I was out of line, been a tough few months here.

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14 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

Went into Home Depot (MN) to grab a couple things at lunch.  Place was packed, as it’s been for the past three months every time I’ve been there.  I was floored at the amount of people not wearing a mask, to the point I decided to count how many customers I saw that were actually wearing a mask during my 15 minutes in the store.  

Two.  That’s it.  Two other customers out of at least a hundred people I saw were wearing a mask.  It’s just dumbfounding.  

We've had a state mask ordinance (VA) for a month or so, but anecdotally, home improvement and hardware stores have very few people wearing them compared to grocery stores. Maybe 10% wear them at Lowe's/Home Depot, and it's more like 75% at grocery stores. 

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10 hours ago, Beef Ravioli said:
10 hours ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

Liberal areas = masks.  Conservative areas = very few masks. 

Spot on! 

Maybe among older people but I don't think there are party lines to this among young people going and packing bars and other places.

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