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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread

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10 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

 But they did demonstrate pretty conclusively that it's apparently pretty hard to contract covid in an outdoor setting.  It also sounds like the fomite vector was grossly overblown at the beginning of this.  Indoor air seems to be the main thing.

Yep, but I wonder how something like an outdoor event with a lot of common surfaces (like a sports game) would be

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13 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Yep, but I wonder how something like an outdoor event with a lot of common surfaces (like a sports game) would be

Yeah. Stadium bathrooms are a cesspool of filth when there isn’t a pandemic. And they’re indoors. 

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11 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Same here in Texas. Hospitals are pretty much maxed and medical professionals have been PLEADING with the city to take it seriously. And it had absolutely no effect this weekend at all. I am simply stunned.

I think they messed up the messaging and all the focus seemed to be on the bars and not gatherings in general.

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2 hours ago, Dr_Zaius said:

Speaking of vitamin D, for all the changes we've tried to make as a society over this, I don't understand why there was and is very little talk in the media about trying to keep your immune system healthy.  Simple stuff, like getting enough sleep, lowering stress, maybe trying to up your vitamin D levels, etc.  I mean, it can't hurt, right?  Obviously your best bet is to avoid contracting the virus in the first place, but some percentage of people were always going to end up getting infected, and you would think given that they would try to encourage people to do what they could to keep their immune systems working as well as possible.

It can’t hurt, but making those recommendations is a bit of witchcraft. For example, there is no medical definition of “stress”, nor ideal amount of sleep. And how does one quantify a healthy immune system? Even vitamin D supplementation is a little controversial.

I think it’s far more important to emphasize tried-and-true NPI, as those target a healthy society rather than optimizing individual health. While the latter message is certainly important, we’ve already got enough people focusing on their relatively low risk of death from Covid-19 and ignoring vulnerable populations.

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43 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Same here in Texas. Hospitals are pretty much maxed and medical professionals have been PLEADING with the city to take it seriously. And it had absolutely no effect this weekend at all. I am simply stunned.

Majority want to complain about the economic impact of the shutdowns and revolt against them. Then reopenings happen and people can’t control themselves. Thus why shutdowns were needed. People are idiots. 

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17 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

I think they messed up the messaging and all the focus seemed to be on the bars and not gatherings in general.

There's no message you could send that these idiots would listen too. We've had weeks of proof that they are basically incapable of rational thought. I blame our Mayor and law enforcement some. They Mayor knows we are chock full of idiots and they pleaded for the Governor to give them the power to enforce individual mask rules. And now that they have it, they are playing the "We want to educate, not fine them" card. i.e. They got the power and now are utterly afraid to use it. So, people continue to do what they want to do, which is gather and forego masks.

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3 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

The recent opening of US cities is being blamed for massive spikes in cases and driving the fear that the spikes will lead to massive death. Unless the US has some unique form of the virus it seems that other countries experiences, especially one who remained opened, are valuable in reducing panic if they show decreases of cases and death happen over time regardless of different mitigation efforts.

Sweden in particular because they never had to open since they never closed businesses. 

I also think the Sweden experience aligns more with the Oxford model which was rejected by the UK in favor of the lockdown approach recommended by the Imperial College. Since our strategy was in part infomed by the Imperial College model it would be nice to find out who’s theory was correct for the future.
 

 

Get back to me in a month or so. But clarify your definition of “massive” death first.

Even given the US’ numbers to date, would you argue we’ve chosen the correct mitigation strategy in comparison to countries like S. Korea, who also didn’t shutter their economy significantly?

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51 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

Same here in Texas. Hospitals are pretty much maxed and medical professionals have been PLEADING with the city to take it seriously. And it had absolutely no effect this weekend at all. I am simply stunned.

Surely matuski’s surgical colleagues aren’t concerned yet? They’re probably planning on opening up a satellite OR in Mexico.

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Posted (edited)

Actual conversation at a healthcare facility I've been helping at on weekends the last few months:

Several employees to armed security officer: "Masks are mandated"

Armed security: "I'm supposed to do a lot of things"

Employees: "Again, they're mandatory and can be fined for not wearing one"

Armed security guy: "That's ok. I'll shoot em"

All over wearing a mask. Employees went dead silent when he made the comment. Thankfully the "security" is gone. Sad there's people so inconsiderate  (This guy coughs and coughs and coughs....supposedly "allergies" according to him.......not that it should matter). Wasn't some kid. Late 50's gun nut with a few screws loose. I really don't know how he (had) been working security supposedly for 20-something years or able to carry period.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL
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51 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Yep, but I wonder how something like an outdoor event with a lot of common surfaces (like a sports game) would be

I think the air can get pretty stagnant inside stadiums, and there are many partially enclosed choke points where crowds congregate like entryways, concession stands and restrooms. Plus a lot of drunk, belligerent people.

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4 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Surely matuski’s surgical colleagues aren’t concerned yet? They’re probably planning on opening up a satellite OR in Mexico.

I haven't had the ability to see one of Matsuki's anecdotal evidence-based posts in quite awhile, so I assure you I have no clue what his thoughts may be. 

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4 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

I haven't had the ability to see one of Matsuki's anecdotal evidence-based posts in quite awhile, so I assure you I have no clue what his thoughts may be. 

Basically, none of his physician friends are concerned, hospital staff think masking is a joke and elective OR procedures are more important than containing the virus.

And it's good time for indoor drunken revelry with friends!

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5 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Basically, none of his physician friends are concerned, hospital staff think masking is a joke and elective OR procedures are more important than containing the virus.

And it's good time for indoor drunken revelry with friends!

Don’t know what ORs he’s at but I can assure you the one I work in think none of those things. Pretty much just tired of taking care of stupid people. 

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28 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Don’t know what ORs he’s at but I can assure you the one I work in think none of those things. Pretty much just tired of taking care of stupid people. 

I think he overstated what they were saying but I’m sure some were downplaying it because they knew how much ‘getting bad’ would crush their business.

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My wife's uncle has it and he's in bad shape. Lives in the Dominican Republic,  was tested a week ago and it came back positive but he's gone downhill since. They called an ambulance for him but it never showed. His wife who doesn't drive got someone to take him but they turned him away from the local hospital, the healthcare system there seems like a big challenge. Trying to get him to Santo Domingo but he's giving pushback thinking they'll just turn him away again, meanwhile he can barely speak. Incredibly frustrating. Horrible feeling of helplessness. 

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7 hours ago, IrishTwinkie said:

Even the guy who was responsible for how Sweeden reacted to this crisis regrets what he did.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/06/871404638/frontman-behind-swedens-coronavirus-strategy-regrets-high-death-toll

 

But please, keep on keeping on. Nothing is wrong here. Nothing at all.

I don't think you read the whole article.

That's Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist, who's been the front man of the crisis. In a recent interview he appeared to admit Sweden should've adopted stricter measures but later said his comments had been overinterpreted. He said he still believes in the country's strategy but regrets the high death toll.

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Posted (edited)

234 reported Covid-19 deaths today nationwide. 254 Covid-19 deaths nationwide yesterday. (New York still recording the highest numbers of daily deaths btw) Compare to the single highest daily U.S. death total which came on April 21st when 2,749 people died in the U.S. from Covid-19. Yesterday's total represents a 92% decrease in deaths from the worst day during this crisis some two and a half months ago.

Also...

2 More Weeks!!!

Or is it 3 more?!?!?!

Perhaps 4  More Weeks?!?!?!

Edited by Mr Anonymous
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10 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

I think he overstated what they were saying but I’m sure some were downplaying it because they knew how much ‘getting bad’ would crush their business.

Of course. But rather than admit he was off mark, he double/triples down on his rigid stance, feeding into the gaslighting from some of our public officials.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

234 reported Covid-19 deaths today nationwide. 254 Covid-19 deaths nationwide yesterday. (New York still recording the highest numbers of daily deaths btw) Compare to the single highest daily U.S. death total which came on April 21st when 2,749 people died in the U.S. from Covid-19. Yesterday's total represents a 92% decrease in deaths from the worst day during this crisis some two and a half months ago.

Also...

2 More Weeks!!!

Or is it 3 more?!?!?!

Perhaps 4  More Weeks?!?!?!

It’s great death rates are down trending. Let’s hope it stays that way, instead of mocking those who are planning for alternative, fairly probable scenarios.

Certainly we shouldn’t ignore the dramatic uptick in cases and hospitalizations.

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16 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

234 reported Covid-19 deaths today nationwide. 254 Covid-19 deaths nationwide yesterday. (New York still recording the highest numbers of daily deaths btw) Compare to the single highest daily U.S. death total which came on April 21st when 2,749 people died in the U.S. from Covid-19. Yesterday's total represents a 92% decrease in deaths from the worst day during this crisis some two and a half months ago.

Also...

2 More Weeks!!!

Or is it 3 more?!?!?!

Perhaps 4  More Weeks?!?!?!

Not sure where you’re getting the state daily fatalities from, but the statement regarding NY is incorrect unless every other state recorded fewer than 8 deaths yesterday. 

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18 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

It’s great death rates are down trending. Let’s hope it stays that way, instead of mocking those who are planning for alternative, fairly probable scenarios.

Certainly we shouldn’t ignore the dramatic uptick in cases and hospitalizations.

It's not probable and the predictions of what is to come in TWO WEEKS came well over two weeks ago. It's time to start attempting to understand that this is nothing like March/April for a variety of reasons. When people keep shouting TWO WEEKS and then start shifting to 3 WEEKS and now even 4 WEEKS, it's apparent that they're not paying attention to what's actually happening.

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Sunday totals are always slow and some states reported no data. With the holiday weekend too, these numbers are probably not an accurate reading

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

It's not probable and the predictions of what is to come in TWO WEEKS came well over two weeks ago. It's time to start attempting to understand that this is nothing like March/April for a variety of reasons. When people keep shouting TWO WEEKS and then start shifting to 3 WEEKS and now even 4 WEEKS, it's apparent that they're not paying attention to what's actually happening.

If you've followed my posts, I've  never given a two-week timeline for an uptick in deaths, focussing on cases and hospitalizations instead. Conveniently, you seem to be ignoring the correct prediction that both would increase a few weeks after people started congregating and minimizing NPIs. Weren't you mocking the delay in the resurgence of cases and hospitalizations too?

Also, I assure you I'm paying close attention to this, as my job demands it.

Edited by Terminalxylem
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3 hours ago, Scoresman said:

Yeah. Stadium bathrooms are a cesspool of filth when there isn’t a pandemic. And they’re indoors. 

You haven't been to an SEC tailgate lately.

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41 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

If you've followed my posts, I've  never given a two-week timeline for an uptick in deaths, focussing on cases and hospitalizations instead. Conveniently, you seem to be ignoring the correct prediction that both would increase a few weeks after people started congregating and minimizing NPIs. Weren't you mocking the delay in the resurgence of cases and hospitalizations too?

Also, I assure you I'm paying close attention to this, as my job demands it.

This country doesn’t want to be locked down.  It’s not capable of closing down.  It’s not going back to the semi-lockdown mode of April.   There were a lot of gatherings over the July 4 Holiday weekend.    Let’s see the numbers of cases, hospitalizations and deaths in two weeks even though nothing will change.     The majority of Americans are not going to follow social distancing guidelines anyway.  

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18 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

This country doesn’t want to be locked down.  It’s not capable of closing down.  It’s not going back to the semi-lockdown mode of April.   There were a lot of gatherings over the July 4 Holiday weekend.    Let’s see the numbers of cases, hospitalizations and deaths in two weeks even though nothing will change.     The majority of Americans are not going to follow social distancing guidelines anyway.  

Specific areas will close down and the majority of people will, of course, obey the rules.  

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RIP Nick Cordero, broadway actor. 95 days in ICU. 41 yo. Healthy. Fought a good long fight. No idea how he got it. Leaves behind a wife and 1 yo son. 

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44 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

This country doesn’t want to be locked down.  It’s not capable of closing down.  It’s not going back to the semi-lockdown mode of April.   There were a lot of gatherings over the July 4 Holiday weekend.    Let’s see the numbers of cases, hospitalizations and deaths in two weeks even though nothing will change.     The majority of Americans are not going to follow social distancing guidelines anyway.  

The country was never locked down, and I’ve not said that is what’s needed now. But your wait and see approach is exactly what we shouldn’t do, as being non-proactive is what leads to healthcare facilities being overwhelmed. Just ask Italy, NYC and places in AZ, TX and FL now.

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4 hours ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Actual conversation at a healthcare facility I've been helping at on weekends the last few months:

Several employees to armed security officer: "Masks are mandated"

Armed security: "I'm supposed to do a lot of things"

Employees: "Again, they're mandatory and can be fined for not wearing one"

Armed security guy: "That's ok. I'll shoot em"

All over wearing a mask. Employees went dead silent when he made the comment. Thankfully the "security" is gone. Sad there's people so inconsiderate  (This guy coughs and coughs and coughs....supposedly "allergies" according to him.......not that it should matter). Wasn't some kid. Late 50's gun nut with a few screws loose. I really don't know how he (had) been working security supposedly for 20-something years or able to carry period.

Sounds like a nut job.  Hopefully the healthcare facility ramps up security now that they've removed this guy.  Who knows what he's capable of.

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On 7/2/2020 at 4:54 PM, SoBeDad said:

Miami's 2,000+ bed public Jackson Health System, reporting 315 inpatients  who have tested positivefor COVID-19. Three weeks ago, the numbers were decreasing and had plateaued around 100. The patients have less severe symptoms and are  staying fewer days than in April and May. But this exponential increase is not sustainable much longer. Here are the daily numbers of COVID-19+ inpatients at Jackson from the last 25 days, most recent days first:

 333, 301, 303, 315, 265, 244, 219, 223, 207, 211, 217, 210, 196, 182, 157, 153, 154, 144, 142, 137, 129, 120, 104, 100, 101, 105, 104.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JacksonHealth?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Hospitalizations and ICU use going up across the county and state. Deaths are holding steady at a 7-day moving average of about 40. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/olivierlacan/status/1278759141910228992

https://mobile.twitter.com/conarck/status/1278742341843660801

An update from Jackson Health System with the most recent numbers bolded. Hospital capacity is still adequate, and should be, assuming exponential growth doesn't continue and length of stay lower than it was in April. The immediate negative impact is cancellation of elective surgery starting today at Jackson. The other large local hospitals haven't followed suit, but the increase in COVID cases will likely cause some patients to postpone elective surgery, which is very bad for a hospital's financial health. 

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13 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

Same here in Texas. Hospitals are pretty much maxed and medical professionals have been PLEADING with the city to take it seriously. And it had absolutely no effect this weekend at all. I am simply stunned.

One of the more disappointing things I've seen through this whole thing is the lack of concern for our medical professionals taking care of us.  "The hospitals aren't even overrun yet" seems to be the bar for many and it just leaves me :mellow: every time I hear it.  Completely nonsensical to me.  

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

One of the more disappointing things I've seen through this whole thing is the lack of concern for our medical professionals taking care of us.  "The hospitals aren't even overrun yet" seems to be the bar for many and it just leaves me :mellow: every time I hear it.  Completely nonsensical to me.  

It's so obvious that a careful rep-opening and required mask usage is what it takes to beat back this virus.  Look at the East Coast states and Europe.  Hit hard at first, you'd have think that the states that escaped a massive early impact would have learned.  Nope.  So now we'll probably have a subset of states open and doing business and a subset shut back down.  I guess we really do often need to really touch the stove ourselves just to make sure it's hot. 

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11 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

It’s great death rates are down trending. Let’s hope it stays that way, instead of mocking those who are planning for alternative, fairly probable scenarios.

Certainly we shouldn’t ignore the dramatic uptick in cases and hospitalizations.

It's pretty clear, everything not fitting the narrative is ignored by some...him included.  Remember his "follow the guidelines!!!!!" shtick?  Haven't heard a peep about that since everything started opening up against those guidelines and things started flaring up...weird right?

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7 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

It's so obvious that a careful rep-opening and required mask usage is what it takes to beat back this virus.  Look at the East Coast states and Europe.  Hit hard at first, you'd have think that the states that escaped a massive early impact would have learned.  Nope.  So now we'll probably have a subset of states open and doing business and a subset shut back down.  I guess we really do often need to really touch the stove ourselves just to make sure it's hot. 

whack-a-mole is our approach of choice it seems moving forward and that most assuredly means we will have a much more significant economic impact.  our bed's been made...now we lie in it.

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Posted (edited)

We just got back from 2 weeks in Florida and I just got off a two week timeout.  Some thoughts/observations.

- We had this trip planned for a long time.  I was apprehensive before leaving and my anxiety just ramped up as we watched Florida cases spike.

- Was I irresponsible going?  (Someone may ask so thought I’d answer).  Maybe.  The state was open - it was a 5 hour drive. We didn’t go inside any restaurants and wore masks the few times we had to go inside (gas station, grocery store).  We did eat outside 3 times and 2 of the 3 were really good experiences.  The third was iffy but still outside and air flowing.

- We just went to the beach every day.  I worked the first week.  The beaches seemed just like they always do, but people definitely seemed to keep their space.  We were in a family friendly part of the gulf (Miramar) so not a lot of young adults.

- It definitely felt like people were not taking it seriously though.  We walked around a few places and saw stores/restaurants with no masks requirements, almost nobody wearing them and a lot of workers not wearing them.  For example, my wife’s birthday was while we were down there.  Went and picked up a DQ ice cream cake.  I was the only person in there wearing a mask.

- I think one contributor to the spread in the south (even if it’s small) is folks doing what I just did and then potentially taking the virus back to their part of the country.  I plan to isolate myself for a while but things are still as back to normal around here (Georgia) so I’m sure lots of people who went down and did eat inside restaurants will be out and about.

- Would I go again?  This is the interesting question.  I think there’s a balance everyone needs to find.  Knowing what Florida seems to be going through I’d say no, I would have opted for something else.  But that’s due to their cases spiking while I was there.  I felt the trip itself was ok and everything we did was relatively safe.  

Edited by AAABatteries
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2 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

We just got back from 2 weeks in Florida and I just got off a two week timeout.  Some thoughts/observations.

- We had this trip planned for a long time.  I was apprehensive before leaving and my anxiety just ramped up as we watched Florida cases spike.

- Was I irresponsible going?  (Someone may ask so thought I’d answer).  Maybe.  The state was open - it was a 5 hour drive. We didn’t go inside any restaurants and wore masks the few times we had to go inside (gas station, grocery store).  We did eat outside 3 times and 2 of the 3 were really good experiences.  The third was iffy but still outside and air flowing.

- We just went to the beach every day.  I worked the first week.  The beaches seemed just like they always do, but people definitely seemed to keep their space.  We were in a family friendly part of the gulf (Miramar) so not a lot of young adults.

- It definitely felt like people were not taking it seriously though.  We walked around a few places and saw stores/restaurants with no masks requirements, almost nobody wearing them and a lot of workers not wearing them.  For example, my wife’s birthday was while we were down there.  Went and picked up a DQ ice cream cake.  I was the only person in there wearing a mask.

- I think one contributor to the spread in the south (even if it’s small) is folks doing what I just did and then potentially taking the virus back to their part of the country.  I plan to isolate myself for a while but things are still as back to normal around here (Georgia) so I’m sure lots of people who went down and did eat inside restaurants will be out and about.

- Would I go again?  This is the interesting question.  I think there’s a balance everyone needs to find.  Knowing what Florida seems to be going through I’d say no, I would have opted for something else.  But that’s due to their cases spiking while I was there.  I felt the trip itself was ok and everything we did was relatively safe.  

Welcome back, I'm just off a 3 month timeout.  Your description of Florida matches what we're seeing from a case rise perspective.  If the virus ever gets a foothold in The Village, Florida will be screwed.  I just spent two weeks in Rehoboth DE. and my experience was the opposite.  Mask required in stores and the boardwalk, and 90% of people wearing them just walking around town.  I saw cops yell at a biker who wasn't wearing a mask.

We did drive through Dewey Beach though and the line of young people waiting to get into the bars was outside the doors and business as usual.  Dewey basically shut down a week later.

We just can't believe the stove is hot I guess. 

Hope you enjoyed vacation

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Just now, James Daulton said:

Welcome back, I'm just off a 3 month timeout.  Your description of Florida matches what we're seeing from a case rise perspective.  If the virus ever gets a foothold in The Village, Florida will be screwed.  I just spent two weeks in Rehoboth DE. and my experience was the opposite.  Mask required in stores and the boardwalk, and 90% of people wearing them just walking around town.  I saw cops yell at a biker who wasn't wearing a mask.

We did drive through Dewey Beach though and the line of young people waiting to get into the bars was outside the doors and business as usual.  Dewey basically shut down a week later.

We just can't believe the stove is hot I guess. 

Hope you enjoyed vacation

Thanks, we had a nice relaxing time and the water down at the gulf was incredible.  Probably the best I've seen in it in my 45 years.

You are right about the Villages.  My Dad and Stepmother live 2 miles north of there and they are saying things are still ok in that area.  Hopefully it doesn't spread.

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Just now, AAABatteries said:

Thanks, we had a nice relaxing time and the water down at the gulf was incredible.  Probably the best I've seen in it in my 45 years.

You are right about the Villages.  My Dad and Stepmother live 2 miles north of there and they are saying things are still ok in that area.  Hopefully it doesn't spread.

What about the water was so good?  Cleaner, warmer, less "red tide", etc?

It's amazing how great nature can get when humans limit their activities. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

The country was never locked down, and I’ve not said that is what’s needed now. But your wait and see approach is exactly what we shouldn’t do, as being non-proactive is what leads to healthcare facilities being overwhelmed. Just ask Italy, NYC and places in AZ, TX and FL now.

I never said we should wait and see.   I’m interested to see the numbers after so many people were together over the Holiday weekend.   There isn’t going to be another lockdown.   The majority of citizens have made up their minds and are going back to normal living with a little social distancing sprinkled in.    I’m not stating that it’s correct but that is what is happening.   

Edited by DocHolliday

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26 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Thanks, we had a nice relaxing time and the water down at the gulf was incredible.  Probably the best I've seen in it in my 45 years.

You are right about the Villages.  My Dad and Stepmother live 2 miles north of there and they are saying things are still ok in that area.  Hopefully it doesn't spread.

I think it really depends where you are in FL with how serious people are taking this.

For example, we were in Boca Grande last week and the majority of people had masks on.  Some stores even required them for entry.

But if you go to other places like Fort Myers Beach, people are definitely like, "haha, yeah, whatevs".

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26 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

What about the water was so good?  Cleaner, warmer, less "red tide", etc?

It's amazing how great nature can get when humans limit their activities. 

From my recent experiences with the gulf water...

Definitely cleaner water.

No red tide.

Very warm water.  The water temp was up to 90 on some days.

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Some other ramblings about the virus:

  • Several things about this epidemic baffle me and here's a couple:  1. how some of this has turned political - it's just grotesque all the way around.  It's not everybody but it's still a lot of people.  I think you can ignore political parties on this and just say that it seems like overall we have not handled this well and it's depressing to think that politics is a contributor.  2. too many people (not necessarily here at FBGs but just in general) think they have facts about what is going on when they really have no clue.  Even the leading experts don't have a lot of answers to certain questions, I'm not sure why lay people would think they do. 

With that as my caveat of sorts - I wanted to throw out additional thoughts/ideas - not as facts but more to talk out my understanding of what is/may be going on.

  • Early on it seems we did a few things poorly - didn't do versions of SIP/SAH quick enough;  we didn't isolate elderly, especially at nursing homes and we advised people to not wear masks (even if the intent was good to save PPE for healthcare workers it turned out bad).  FTR, I'm pro-mask indoors in public at all times.  Outdoors seems like a mixed bag - there's so many variables and situations to cover.  Ideally, we would have really good numbers and tracking and then we could maybe stamp out hot spots quicker by requiring masks but logistically and leadership-wise we seem to be far away from that happening.
  • Also early on we did not have testing ramped up so we probably missed a lot of cases - which I'm sure happened everywhere (or almost everywhere).  Sounds like we still are not testing everyone.  So it seems like our numbers were definitely under reported and skewed towards those who were really sick and/or old.  It seems like this is probably still the case to some degree but not nearly as bad as early on.  What does that mean?  Maybe nothing but it does seem to be consensus that this means the virus isn't as deadly but even saying that implies that things are ok and they aren't.  120k+ dead is horrible and we are not doing a good job.
  • Back to testing - I think (and it's just a thought) that our case numbers are low - how low, I have no clue.  But it seems like people are saying the numbers being low are good or bad - I think it's a mixed bag.  Them being low means the death rate is lower (good) but it also means we have a lot more people who have it and can pass it on (bad).  I think the assumption was that we would eventually be testing everyone (and maybe do contact tracing) but we still seem so far away from that and our populace won't go along with it.
  • One thing I can say with a lot of confidence is most young people do not take this seriously at all unless they are directly impacted.  Unless you keep things closed down (schools, churches, etc.) this is just going to keep ramping up and down everywhere until there's a vaccine.  I'm mentally preparing myself for this to be the new normal until late 2021 or 2022.

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29 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

What about the water was so good?  Cleaner, warmer, less "red tide", etc?

It's amazing how great nature can get when humans limit their activities. 

It was almost like the Caribbean.  Crystal clear and zero stuff in the water - jellyfish/seaweed/trash.  I have no clue if it was just luck or less pollution or what was going on but it was fantastic.  Obviously the seaweed/jellyfish was probably luck.

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6 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

I think it really depends where you are in FL with how serious people are taking this.

For example, we were in Boca Grande last week and the majority of people had masks on.  Some stores even required them for entry.

But if you go to other places like Fort Myers Beach, people are definitely like, "haha, yeah, whatevs".

Definitely - we drove by Seaside and there were stores saying masks required.  If I had to guess I'd put the voluntary mask wearing at 5-10% or less in the area where I was.

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11 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

If you've followed my posts, I've  never given a two-week timeline for an uptick in deaths, focussing on cases and hospitalizations instead. Conveniently, you seem to be ignoring the correct prediction that both would increase a few weeks after people started congregating and minimizing NPIs. Weren't you mocking the delay in the resurgence of cases and hospitalizations too?

Also, I assure you I'm paying close attention to this, as my job demands it.

Don't worry gb, he's not mocking you.

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37 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

I never said we should wait and see.   I’m interested to see the numbers after so many people were together over the Holiday weekend.   There isn’t going to be another lockdown.   The majority of citizens have made up their minds and are going back to normal living with a little social distancing sprinkled in.    I’m not stating that it’s correct but that is what is happening.   

Citizens have not made up their minds.  Citizens are doing what they are allowed to do.  Do you think Italians would have shut down if their government hadn't demanded it?  Do you think the citizens of NYC would have stayed in their homes if it wasn't for the strict lockdowns?  

The reason it appears that things are going back to normal is that governments are allowing it to happen.

Florida has Disney World opening next weekend, the MLS starting their tournament this week, and is awaiting the fresh start of the NBA season later this month.  Florida is not taking this seriously.

 

But IF/WHEN Florida does, the citizens will fall in line.  Because they'll have to.  If there are protests, they will be a very small portion of the population.  

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12 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:
21 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

I think it really depends where you are in FL with how serious people are taking this.

For example, we were in Boca Grande last week and the majority of people had masks on.  Some stores even required them for entry.

But if you go to other places like Fort Myers Beach, people are definitely like, "haha, yeah, whatevs".

Definitely - we drove by Seaside and there were stores saying masks required.  If I had to guess I'd put the voluntary mask wearing at 5-10% or less in the area where I was.

I stated up thread a bit that there are days where I walk around and am like "wow...people get it"...then two days later, exact same place and not a single mask outside the employees.  It's so freakin' weird...I've given up trying to figure it out.  With that said it seems the "problems" are younger people and "older" people duped by the politics of it all.  Unfortunately, that is A LOT of people.  Everyone else seems to be coming from a logical mindset.

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