What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (9 Viewers)

This is such a different place than the PSF....I offered up the same annotated report there despite my hesitancy given what I see as the predictable outcome, but not a single person said, "yeah, I'd like to take a look at it"  :lol:

It's not the be all, end all of documents, but it's a pretty good tool to break things down and outline concern.  I've posted it online for anyone who's asked and I really do think one of the biggest hurdles, outside the politics, is going to be getting people to take the vaccine because they don't understand it's not like the others we have.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
Employers can force employees to get the vaccine? WTF is going on? This is not good. Bye freedom. We’re doomed. 
Click to expand...
Wut?

There are all sorts of behaviors and restrictions that an employer may place on their employees.  Your choice to agree to those stipulations or to not work there.  Some places require a yearly flu vaccination. 

Opting out of a vaccination isn't a protected class unless it's for religious beliefs.

 
I think there should be space for those that don't want to take the vaccine. If those employees can continue to work remotely, then they shouldn't be required to get it. 

If they cannot work remotely 100%of the time, then they should have to get the vaccine (once it's available) to return to the workplace.  It should be similar for airline travel.

Your choice not to get the vaccine, but don't put other people in jeopardy by doing so.  Same for measles vaccine for school children.  Don't endanger others unless there's a legitimate religious belief against vaccinations.  You don't want your kid getting the vax? Fine, don't enroll them in public school. 

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
Employers can force employees to get the vaccine? WTF is going on? This is not good. Bye freedom. We’re doomed. 
Click to expand...
This is where we talk about free markets and freedom of choice..... Many people believe private businesses should be able to operate as they choose

 
Last edited by a moderator:
My Halloween doctor costume should hopefully be here next week.  Current situation is a Fisher Price stethoscope and sexy nurse outfit.  Probably not going to cut it. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
Thats crazy. Did he just grab the same syringe he stuck the previous person with?
Click to expand...
Tough to tell. They come in multi dose vials, 5 shots in each. My guess is that they had someone drawing up all the shots from the vial to be ready for the photo op and they either put an empty syringe with the filled ones or when they drew it up and were attempting to get air bubbles out and accidentally removed all the vaccine. Either way that person likely messed up.

Pickup the previous syringe is unlikely. Safety mechanism are universally used that either retract the needle or lock it from using it again. It’s possible they weren’t doing that but unlikely.

Another consideration is the 3ml syringes are often used and this vaccine is only 0.3ml, so the liquid may not look like much nor take much of a push to do the injection. In this case they seem to have screwed up.

 
Biff84 said:
Tough to tell. They come in multi dose vials, 5 shots in each. My guess is that they had someone drawing up all the shots from the vial to be ready for the photo op and they either put an empty syringe with the filled ones or when they drew it up and were attempting to get air bubbles out and accidentally removed all the vaccine. Either way that person likely messed up. -this one is possible.

Pickup the previous syringe is unlikely. Safety mechanism are universally used that either retract the needle or lock it from using it again. It’s possible they weren’t doing that but unlikely. - no retraction on these needles. And it doesnt matter if it is locked if you arent reloading. He had all 5 preloaded in a bag. You cant really see a couple of the syringes very well in the el paso times photo where eric johansen is holding up the bag with all of them in it. So he either rejabbed or somebody forgot to load one of those two. 

Another consideration is the 3ml syringes are often used and this vaccine is only 0.3ml, so the liquid may not look like much nor take much of a push to do the injection. In this case they seem to have screwed up. -this doesnt fit since the other ones werent like that
Click to expand...
My responses in italics. 

 
DallasDMac said:
Due to the the pure numbers of people that think like you, you are probably right. 
Click to expand...
I enjoy my privacy and freedom and I have the absolute right to say what goes into my body.  There is a large population of doctors, nurses, scientists and microbiologists who do not think this vaccine is safe.  It is never ok to force people to inject themselves with anything.  This situation has got way out of control and it's downright scary.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I enjoy my privacy and freedom and I have the absolute right to say what goes into my body.  There is a large population of doctors, nurses, scientists and microbiologists who do not think this vaccine is safe.  It is never ok to force people to inject themselves with anything.  This situation has got way out of control and it's downright scary.
Click to expand...
Who’s forcing anybody? Anyone is free to not get vaccinated...and free to deal with the consequences of that choice.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I enjoy my privacy and freedom and I have the absolute right to say what goes into my body.  There is a large population of doctors, nurses, scientists and microbiologists who do not think this vaccine is safe.  It is never ok to force people to inject themselves with anything.  This situation has got way out of control and it's downright scary.
Click to expand...
The government isn't going to forcibly enter your house, hold you down, and stick you.  If/when you get the vaccine it will be by your choice. 

Now, it's also the choice of your employer to mandate you get vaccinated before interacting with your coworkers.  They may also terminate your employment if you are unable to perform your duties without being vaccinated and you refuse. 

Many choices.  No force. 

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I enjoy my privacy and freedom and I have the absolute right to say what goes into my body.  There is a large population of doctors, nurses, scientists and microbiologists who do not think this vaccine is safe.  It is never ok to force people to inject themselves with anything.  This situation has got way out of control and it's downright scary.
Click to expand...
I've not seen ONE reputable source claiming this. Do you have links supporting that? If so, I'd like to read them. (not chastising you, I legit want to see)

 
The Z Machine said:
The government isn't going to forcibly enter your house, hold you down, and stick you.  If/when you get the vaccine it will be by your choice. 

Now, it's also the choice of your employer to mandate you get vaccinated before interacting with your coworkers.  They may also terminate your employment if you are unable to perform your duties without being vaccinated and you refuse. 

Many choices.  No force. 
Click to expand...
Same conversation I had my mother today. She's free to take or not take the vaccine. It's a choice and she's free to do what's in her best interest. Just like I'm free not to let her interact with her 7 month grandchild who physically can't get the vaccine. She quoted social media (ie FB). I quoted scientific articles, our primary care physicians, and the 10+ friends/acquaintances on the front lines who have already gotten the shot this week.

Everyone has a choice. There are just consequences to those choices.

 
Now up to 5 people in the US with allergic reactions. Enough that the FDA is recommending having Epipen readily available when administrating the vaccine to prevent anaphylaxis. Did any trial participants have an allergic reaction? 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jobarules said:
Now up to 5 people in the US with allergic reactions. Enough that the FDA is recommending having Epipen readily available when administrating the vaccine to prevent anaphylaxis. Did any trial participants have an allergic reaction? 
Click to expand...
I wouldn't think people with severe allergies would be predisposed to volunteering.

 
brun said:
...
I've been working from home and my company requires that I be symptom free and test negative before returning to the office. I mentioned that the CDC and local health authorities seem to agree that additional tests are not recommended and a positive test result can be had as much as 3 months after initial symptoms. Unfortunately the policy is flowed down from corporate and the local facility appears to have no leeway. It's possible it will be another week+ before being allowed back into the office...
 
From 1st symptom to test = about 48 hours (Convenient MD)
From test to results = about 72 hours
Days out of the office = probably going to be around 15 assuming I test negative.
Click to expand...
My test this week was positive,  meaning am required to continue working from home despite what the CDC and other health authorities say. 🥺

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I enjoy my privacy and freedom and I have the absolute right to say what goes into my body.  -  Absolutely. And your employer has the right to determine your employment status with the company based on that choice. Freedom is a two way street.

There is a large population of doctors, nurses, scientists and microbiologists who do not think this vaccine is safe. - Links?

It is never ok to force people to inject themselves with anything. - Good thing no one is doing that then. 

This situation has got way out of control and it's downright scary. - Only in the imaginary, non-existent scenario you created in your mind.
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dezbelief said:
I wouldn't think people with severe allergies would be predisposed to volunteering.
Click to expand...
I also wonder if the flip side was true: That researchers screened out trial applicants with a history of anaphylaxis.

So far as I can find: it looks like none of the Pfizer or Moderna Phase 3 trial participants reported anaphylactic reactions.

 
Doug B said:
I also wonder if the flip side was true: That researchers screened out trial applicants with a history of anaphylaxis.

So far as I can find: it looks like none of the Pfizer or Moderna Phase 3 trial participants reported anaphylactic reactions.
Click to expand...
History of anaphylaxis was an exclusion.

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
I've not seen ONE reputable source claiming this. Do you have links supporting that? If so, I'd like to read them. (not chastising you, I legit want to see)
Click to expand...
Even in health care you will get people who fall into the subsets who don’t want the vaccine. I have not seen much beyond that. There WAS significant resistance to a rushed vaccine before it was properly studied including myself. I’m not seeing that anymore. The combination of amazing study results, trials being completed and the absolute failure of following mitigation strategies removed the skepticism for me and many health care providers.

 
Biff84 said:
Even in health care you will get people who fall into the subsets who don’t want the vaccine. I have not seen much beyond that. There WAS significant resistance to a rushed vaccine before it was properly studied including myself. I’m not seeing that anymore. The combination of amazing study results, trials being completed and the absolute failure of following mitigation strategies removed the skepticism for me and many health care providers.
Click to expand...
Yep, same here. I've read everything I could find (which is why I asked for what he was basing his claims on), plus personally knowing several doctors, nurses and pharmacists who have either already gotten vaccinated or are waiting to, so all of that has put my skepticism essentially to rest. 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
Yep, same here. I've read everything I could find (which is why I asked for what he was basing his claims on), plus personally knowing several doctors, nurses and pharmacists who have either already gotten vaccinated or are waiting to, so all of that has put my skepticism essentially to rest. 
Click to expand...
My FB feed is littered with photos of physicians getting their vaccine the moment it was available. It's a great thing to see. 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
Hope you get to feeling better GB, but do keep in mind that this is the body putting up an immune response, which is GOOD. 

I've always been curious why some get effects like this and some don't. Maybe the ones that don't didn't need the vaccine? Something I've always pondered. 
Click to expand...
Felt great all morning, about 4pm started to feel like crap again. 

 
so any concern with CDC reporting 3150  of 127,000 recipients suffered health care events defined as  "unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work, [or] required care from doctor or health care professional"

pdf

 
JaxBill said:
so any concern with CDC reporting 3150  of 127,000 recipients suffered health care events defined as  "unable to perform normal daily activities, unable to work, [or] required care from doctor or health care professional"

pdf
Click to expand...
The percentages of "health impact events" is rising each day, too. As of Friday the 18th, it was one in 36 people getting vaccinated.

Maybe the "... [or] required care from ... health care professional" is kind of a widely-used catchall. Oh, you asked for a little hydrocortisone cream at the doctor's office to put on that sore injection site? Maybe you're one of the "health impact events" :shrug:   Otherwise ... we've got to get a lot better information about what's happening.

 
jobarules said:
A Chicago hospital stopped administering vaccines as 4 people suffered allergic reactions. This is not good.
Click to expand...
That same hospital is starting back up with the vaccines tomorrow. Also:

Three of the people had mild reactions, and were treated and sent home in good condition, Citronberg said. One person had a “more severe” anaphylaxis reaction, he said.

That person was monitored overnight, but was discharged on Saturday and is doing well, officials said.
Click to expand...
I guess those three people with mild reactions would still fall under "health impact events" [pg 6] (also see upthread)?

It seems apparent that the Pfizer vaccine causes anaphylaxis much more often than other familiar vaccines. Maybe Moderna's and the other ones will do better. Meanwhile, it's too late for the batches already manufactured ... but I wonder if there's something Pfizer can tweak without starting trials all over again?

 
I also wonder if there's any possibility whatsoever that some of the reactions (not the analphylaxis cases) are psychosomatic? It would be a wholly unethical study and would never be done ... but I bet it would be possible to give out placebo vaccines and still get people having reactions to the placebo.

Sounds weird, but if you dig deep into placebo studies ... there's a lot of "how the eff?" stuff out there. The mind is a powerful thing.

EDIT: Good non-scholarly link to an overview of contemporary placebo studies. Also lots of links to scholarly work for those wanting to climb down the rabbit holes.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Doug B said:
I also wonder if there's any possibility whatsoever that some of the reactions (not the analphylaxis cases) are psychosomatic? It would be a wholly unethical study and would never be done ... but I bet it would be possible to give out placebo vaccines and still get people having reactions to the placebo.

Sounds weird, but if you dig deep into placebo studies ... there's a lot of "how the eff?" stuff out there. The mind is a powerful thing.

EDIT: Good non-scholarly link to an overview of contemporary placebo studies. Also lots of links to scholarly work for those wanting to climb down the rabbit holes.
Click to expand...
Yes. Yes. Yes. 

 
Doug B said:
I also wonder if there's any possibility whatsoever that some of the reactions (not the analphylaxis cases) are psychosomatic? It would be a wholly unethical study and would never be done ... but I bet it would be possible to give out placebo vaccines and still get people having reactions to the placebo.
Click to expand...
Last month a study found something similar going on with statin therapy. Reports of statin intolerance are common - mostly due to muscle pain. But in this study, the same side effects occurred in many of the people who thought they were getting a statin but actually got a placebo.

https://www.healio.com/news/cardiology/20201115/nocebo-effect-may-explain-many-cases-of-statin-intolerance-samson

 
This 72 year old is 2020 in a nutshell. 

As of December 6, 2020, there were 3 SAEs reported in the vaccine group: a 65-year-old
participant with community acquired pneumonia 25 days after vaccination, a 72-year-old
participant with arrhythmia after being struck by lightning 28 days after vaccination, and an 87-
year-old participant with worsening of chronic bradycardia 45 days after vaccination. On FDA 
review of the narratives, none of these SAEs are assessed as related. There were no cases of 
severe COVID-19 reported in the study.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
Coronavirus prevention
Replies
4
Views
324
JaxBill
JaxBill
nirad3
COVID-19 / CoronaVirus - terms/phrases
Replies
35
Views
623
Galileo
Galileo
Joe Bryant
Scared to ask but don't have anywhere else - Clay Travis Article?
2
Replies
71
Views
3K
roadkill1292
roadkill1292

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 10 (members: 0, guests: 10)
Top