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Kobe Bryant dead in helicopter crash - TMZ (2 Viewers)

TheIronSheik said:
I pray that if these women are depressed, they don't go in the mental health thread when you're in there. 
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Whatever. I already apologised for misunderstanding your situation. If continuing to throw slings at me helps you feel better, then continue on. I'm not bothered by misunderstanding something, acknowledging it and if I still need to be swung out, fine. There's always the ignore button that anyone can use.

 
Nipsey said:
I remember reading the interviews and transcripts back in the day and believing that something untoward happened in that hotel room but it wasn't rape. She was there to have sex but the act was not what she envisioned. As far as Kobe lying to detectives right away saying he didn't have sex with her, he did that because he didn't want his wife to know he was serially unfaithful. It would have been an interesting case from a legal perspective but I don't believe he would have been convicted.
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Topshelf?

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I would never claim nor do I believe that "looking for a payday" was the reason she claimed rape.  However, I think the financial arrangement could be part of the reason (with other factors) that she decided not to testify, thereby forcing the prosecution to dismiss the criminal case. 
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When the allegations first arose, she swore up and down that she wanted justice and not money. That was the official stance from the plaintiff and her attorney. But what actually happened? A settlement payout was offered and all of a sudden, justice was abandoned and the money was accepted.
There is no doubt that this was a pure money grab.

 
EYLive said:
When the allegations first arose, she swore up and down that she wanted justice and not money. That was the official stance from the plaintiff and her attorney. But what actually happened? A settlement payout was offered and all of a sudden, justice was abandoned and the money was accepted.
There is no doubt that this was a pure money grab.
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There's quite a bit of doubt, actually.

 
EYLive said:
When the allegations first arose, she swore up and down that she wanted justice and not money. That was the official stance from the plaintiff and her attorney. But what actually happened? A settlement payout was offered and all of a sudden, justice was abandoned and the money was accepted.
There is no doubt that this was a pure money grab.
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Kobe would have had a dream team of lawyers attacking her mercilessly.  The trial would have been pure hell for her and might not have led to a conviction no matter how guilty he was.  I'm sure her lawyer strongly advised her to take the settlement.  Even the prosecutor might have advised her to take the settlement.  I'm continually perplexed by men who automatically presume that the woman is lying.

 
Don Hutson said:
Kobe would have had a dream team of lawyers attacking her mercilessly.  The trial would have been pure hell for her and might not have led to a conviction no matter how guilty he was.  I'm sure her lawyer strongly advised her to take the settlement.  Even the prosecutor might have advised her to take the settlement.  I'm continually perplexed by men who automatically presume that the woman is lying.
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Im just as perplexed by men who automatically presume that the woman is telling the truth. 

We can debate her semen stained underwear and the payout all day long but in the end we don’t know what happened in that room and the only two people who do are Kobe and the woman. 

 

 
fissure man said:
Im just as perplexed by men who automatically presume that the woman is telling the truth. 

We can debate her semen stained underwear and the payout all day long but in the end we don’t know what happened in that room and the only two people who do are Kobe and the woman. 

 
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Again, he flat out admitted he raped her.

Would you ever admit that a woman you had sex with in your past life might have considered the encounter non-consensual?  I know I wouldn't.  I'm guessing most people who have never raped someone wouldn't either.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Again, he flat out admitted he raped her.

Would you ever admit that a woman you had sex with in your past life might have considered the encounter non-consensual?  I know I wouldn't.  I'm guessing most people who have never raped someone wouldn't either.  
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I know people think this is naive, but I take his apology at face value. It makes sense to me, rings true, and I believe it, in large part because I have no other information to dispute it.  Speculation has no value for me.  At the time, he thought it was consensual. He acknowledges her legitimate belief to the contrary. I disagree he ever admitted a rape, flat out or otherwise. 
 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I know people think this is naive, but I take his apology at face value. It makes sense to me, rings true, and I believe it, in large part because I have no other information to dispute it.  Speculation has no value for me.  At the time, he thought it was consensual. He acknowledges her legitimate belief to the contrary. I disagree he ever admitted a rape, flat out or otherwise. 
 
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If you think it's consensual and the woman doesn't, that's non-consensual.  You can't have two different views here.  If that were the case, every rapist on trial could just be like, "Well, I thought it WAS consensual.  So I guess that's on her."  

And furthermore, he didn't just say he thought it was consensual, he said he could see how she thought it wasn't.  Read that again.  That's mind blowing.  Again, GB, I ask you:  Can you think of one time where you had sex with someone and thought that they might have seen it as non-consensual?  

 
TheIronSheik said:
If you think it's consensual and the woman doesn't, that's non-consensual.  You can't have two different views here.  If that were the case, every rapist on trial could just be like, "Well, I thought it WAS consensual.  So I guess that's on her."  

And furthermore, he didn't just say he thought it was consensual, he said he could see how she thought it wasn't.  Read that again.  That's mind blowing.  Again, GB, I ask you:  Can you think of one time where you had sex with someone and thought that they might have seen it as non-consensual?  
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I think his apology was a polite way of saying “this ##### is cray cray”. 
 

To answer your question, no, but I never had oodles of hot women throwing themselves at me at every turn. 

 
fissure man said:
I think his apology was a polite way of saying “this ##### is cray cray”. 
 

To answer your question, no, but I never had oodles of hot women throwing themselves at me at every turn. 
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But if you didn't rape someone, why agree to read that statement?  

 
TheIronSheik said:
If you think it's consensual and the woman doesn't, that's non-consensual.  You can't have two different views here.  If that were the case, every rapist on trial could just be like, "Well, I thought it WAS consensual.  So I guess that's on her."  

And furthermore, he didn't just say he thought it was consensual, he said he could see how she thought it wasn't.  Read that again.  That's mind blowing.  Again, GB, I ask you:  Can you think of one time where you had sex with someone and thought that they might have seen it as non-consensual?  
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Somebody else already touched on it - the consent part wasn’t to having sex most likely but where he put it.  I could easily see a scenario where you just meet someone, agree to have sex and the dude goes for the five hole without asking and she thinks non-consensual and the dude does until after she explains.  I have no proof that’s what happened and I leave it up to the reader to decide whether if that is what happened then the guy is a rapist or not.

 
fissure man said:
Im just as perplexed by men who automatically presume that the woman is telling the truth. 

We can debate her semen stained underwear and the payout all day long but in the end we don’t know what happened in that room and the only two people who do are Kobe and the woman. 

 
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Do you at least acknowledge that he cheated on his wife?  Maybe he wasn't the greatest guy in the world?

 
I will not excoriate the dead.  Nor will I participate in the beatification and canonization of the man. I have tired of the tributes, no matter, I tuned them out from the start.  It is not for me to determine who others can idolize or to speculate why they do.  As for me, well I will keep my opinions and feelings to myself beyond what I have posted here.

I hope his wife and children find solace.  I hope the many other families find solace as well.  I think this has likely been especially hard on them to be "and others" . 

 
AAABatteries said:
Somebody else already touched on it - the consent part wasn’t to having sex most likely but where he put it.  I could easily see a scenario where you just meet someone, agree to have sex and the dude goes for the five hole without asking and she thinks non-consensual and the dude does until after she explains.  I have no proof that’s what happened and I leave it up to the reader to decide whether if that is what happened then the guy is a rapist or not.
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So just to be clear, you think if a woman consents to sex, you're free to do whatever you want at that point.  Even if she says no to a certain area?  Because honestly, this whole, "She's only upset because he put it in a different hole" is disgusting.  And I'm amazed that people think that's a legitimate excuse.  Amazed and disgusted.  I honestly hope you don't believe that's OK.  Because that's very disturbing.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
So just to be clear, you think if a woman consents to sex, you're free to do whatever you want at that point.  Even if she says no to a certain area?  Because honestly, this whole, "She's only upset because he put it in a different hole" is disgusting.  And I'm amazed that people think that's a legitimate excuse.  Amazed and disgusted.  I honestly hope you don't believe that's OK.  Because that's very disturbing.  
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Yep, that’s exactly what I said. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
So just to be clear, you think if a woman consents to sex, you're free to do whatever you want at that point.  Even if she says no to a certain area?  Because honestly, this whole, "She's only upset because he put it in a different hole" is disgusting.  And I'm amazed that people think that's a legitimate excuse.  Amazed and disgusted.  I honestly hope you don't believe that's OK.  Because that's very disturbing.  
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Who's saying that's a legitimate excuse? 

 
Pipes said:
Who's saying that's a legitimate excuse? 
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I apologize if I'm reading that wrong.  But multiple people have thrown that reason/excuse/whatever around.  I'm not sure I understand what they are trying to say if they aren't claiming it as an excuse. :shrug:

Again, I apologize if I'm reading it wrong, but I don't know what else they are bringing that up for.

 
TheIronSheik said:
If you think it's consensual and the woman doesn't, that's non-consensual.  You can't have two different views here.  If that were the case, every rapist on trial could just be like, "Well, I thought it WAS consensual.  So I guess that's on her."  

And furthermore, he didn't just say he thought it was consensual, he said he could see how she thought it wasn't.  Read that again.  That's mind blowing.  Again, GB, I ask you:  Can you think of one time where you had sex with someone and thought that they might have seen it as non-consensual?  
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This is what he said, "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."  I don't consider this mindblowing. I think its something kids in high school and college, as well as young and maybe even older adults, experience and confront frequently.

I don't want to make this about my or anyone else's personal experiences, but I certainly understand and have experienced situations where one person woke up the next morning and thought, "I'm not sure I really wanted that to go in the direction it went. That's not what I wanted or intended to happen."  I think this could be that type of situation, but who knows?  I trust that she felt in good faith that she was raped, and he believed she consented.  That's my belief based on what I've read.

Third, the idea of consent in sexual assault cases is more complex than most of us realize.  I don't think your comment, "If you think it's consensual and the woman doesn't, that's non-consensual" is necessarily correct under the law.  Maybe @Ditkaless Wonders or others can give an opinion on this.  The discussion I recall from law school essentially asks the the question, how can you convict someone of engaging in a non-consensual act when, in that person's mind, the act was 100% consensual at all times?  This is why these cases are often very difficult to prove.  I don't think the juries in these cases are instructed to focus only on the victim's intent and the victim's view of whether or not there was consent, but I could be wrong on that.

 
TheIronSheik said:
I apologize if I'm reading that wrong.  But multiple people have thrown that reason/excuse/whatever around.  I'm not sure I understand what they are trying to say if they aren't claiming it as an excuse. :shrug:

Again, I apologize if I'm reading it wrong, but I don't know what else they are bringing that up for.
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Sorry for my reaction but your first sentence came across really poorly to me and didn’t represent my post in any way.

I’m just saying I can see a scenario where that could be confusing - and I definitely didn’t suggest if that is what happened that he’s not at fault.

 
TheIronSheik said:
So just to be clear, you think if a woman consents to sex, you're free to do whatever you want at that point.  Even if she says no to a certain area?  Because honestly, this whole, "She's only upset because he put it in a different hole" is disgusting.  And I'm amazed that people think that's a legitimate excuse.  Amazed and disgusted.  I honestly hope you don't believe that's OK.  Because that's very disturbing.  
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No.   The problem is many act as though Kobe out right grabbed this girl off the street, forced her into his room, held her down and raped her.

And other say she changed her tune after the fact (based on the trial stuff)

So it somewhere in the middle.

So he was probably in the wrong but not some serial rapist....if that makes sense.

I don't know exactly what happened and never condone rape but I think that's what is happening.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
This is what he said, "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."  I don't consider this mindblowing. I think its something kids in high school and college, as well as young and maybe even older adults, experience and confront frequently.

I don't want to make this about my or anyone else's personal experiences, but I certainly understand and have experienced situations where one person woke up the next morning and thought, "I'm not sure I really wanted that to go in the direction it went. That's not what I wanted or intended to happen."  I think this could be that type of situation, but who knows?  I trust that she felt in good faith that she was raped, and he believed she consented.  That's my belief based on what I've read.

Third, the idea of consent in sexual assault cases is more complex than most of us realize.  I don't think your comment, "If you think it's consensual and the woman doesn't, that's non-consensual" is necessarily correct under the law.  Maybe @Ditkaless Wonders or others can give an opinion on this.  The discussion I recall from law school essentially asks the the question, how can you convict someone of engaging in a non-consensual act when, in that person's mind, the act was 100% consensual at all times?  This is why these cases are often very difficult to prove.  I don't think the juries in these cases are instructed to focus only on the victim's intent and the victim's view of whether or not there was consent, but I could be wrong on that.
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To be perfectly honest.... looking back in college I could see a couple encounters possibly coming off poorly after the fact. For both parties....

 
TheIronSheik said:
Kobe also denied ever being with her until he saw the evidence proving otherwise. Then he changed his tune to "it was consensual."
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I actually never knew this detail until after he died. It is the most damning thing of all of it to me. Rodney Reed did this exact thing. The trash that raped my ex wife tried this.

I absolutely believe Kobe wronged her in some way, maybe several ways, and certainly think rape has a pretty solid probability of being that wrong. We will never know for sure of course, but you can say that about almost any case if you are biased enough and there isnt video evidence. 

 
fissure man said:
He didn’t get off Scott free. 
He was only accused of rape and many who followed the case closely believe the only reason he was questioned in the first place because he was famous for playing basketball. 
If you’ve paid any attention at all you would see that he was idolized for far more than playing basketball 

Im sorry for whatever happened to your loved ones but unless Kobe Bryant was their attacker he has literally nothing to do with them in any way whatsoever. 
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Actually Kobe waited until the charges were dropped and the female was paid.  Then he issued an apology to the girl he raped and her family for causing them any pain and suffering. That was a class move as he never had to say anything. It proves he did learn something.

 
Summer Wheat said:
Actually Kobe waited until the charges were dropped and the female was paid.  Then he issued an apology to the girl he raped and her family for causing them any pain and suffering. That was a class move as he never had to say anything. It proves he did learn something.
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Was there two apologies?  This is the apology read in court by his lawyer that I believe has been quoted in this thread at times:

First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.
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CletiusMaximus said:
As a side note, I don't agree with your statement that the victim "was afraid to testify because her name got out and the internet went crazy."  We don't know that is the case.  Much more likely is that she knew a financial settlement was coming, and decided that was a better path to take than going through a criminal trial.  She had some skeletons in her closet and it would be Kobe's lawyers' duty to put that in the record in his defense.  It would not have been a pleasant experience for her, and certainly could have resulted in an acquittal.
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http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/38947-katelyn-faber-wrongly-identified-pictures
 

There was a witch hunt for all kinds of information about her.  It became a huge ordeal.

 
What happened to this board?  I remember back in the day people getting banned for bringing up in the Reggie White death thread saying how different races are better at certain things.  Now people are so brazen to talk about dead people and wrong hole sex.  Talking about rape victims trying to get a pay day.  Honestly a lot of people would have been banned several years ago for even saying disparaging remarks about the dead.  Joe used to wave the ban hammer pretty wide. 

 
Marmalade said:
What happened to this board?  I remember back in the day people getting banned for bringing up in the Reggie White death thread saying how different races are better at certain things.  Now people are so brazen to talk about dead people and wrong hole sex.  Talking about rape victims trying to get a pay day.  Honestly a lot of people would have been banned several years ago for even saying disparaging remarks about the dead.  Joe used to wave the ban hammer pretty wide. 
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The nature of some people is to pile on. 

Twist the knife. Whatever you want to call it. 

One of the prominent guys doing that here is doing the same thing on another topic I’ve weighed in a lot on.  

Just the way he is, I guess. 

 
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