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fantasycurse42

Doomsday Couple, Missing Kids, Lots of Dead People, Anyone?

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https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/lori-vallow/

I don't see any threads on Lori Vallow or Chad Daybell, even though they're both still roaming free. Lori's ex husband was killed by her brother (supposedly self defense) and her first husband also died under suspicious circumstances. The man she ran away with also has a dead wife prior to her. 

Her two kids 17 & 7 are both MIA for months...

How are they both not in custody? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7934599/Lori-Vallow-missing-cult-mom-Hawaii.html

https://www.azfamily.com/news/lori-vallow-and-chad-daybell-located-by-authorities-in-kauai/article_e608c584-40b3-11ea-a85f-e772a5a92214.html

Reporter tells her that her kids have been missing for four months today, she responds "that's great." 

This woman and her partner both deserve death. 

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1 minute ago, fantasycurse42 said:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/lori-vallow/

I don't see any threads on Lori Vallow or Chad Daybell, even though they're both still roaming free. Lori's ex husband was killed by her brother (supposedly self defense) and her first husband also died under suspicious circumstances. The man she ran away with also has a dead wife prior to her. 

Her two kids 17 & 7 are both MIA for months...

How are they both not in custody? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7934599/Lori-Vallow-missing-cult-mom-Hawaii.html

https://www.azfamily.com/news/lori-vallow-and-chad-daybell-located-by-authorities-in-kauai/article_e608c584-40b3-11ea-a85f-e772a5a92214.html

Reporter tells her that her kids have been missing for four months today, she responds "that's great." 

This woman and her partner both deserve death. 

Awful.  Reminds me of the local Kyron Horman disappearance that's been unsolved now for 10 years.  Everybody including the police KNOW the step mother is hiding something, yet absent a body, they can't do diddly squat and she roams free today, refusing to answer any questions.  Sickens me.  These women are evil twits who need to face justice.

Hope they find the bodies.  I don't think Kyron will ever be located here and it's devastating to his family still.

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1 minute ago, General Malaise said:

Awful.  Reminds me of the local Kyron Horman disappearance that's been unsolved now for 10 years.  Everybody including the police KNOW the step mother is hiding something, yet absent a body, they can't do diddly squat and she roams free today, refusing to answer any questions.  Sickens me.  These women are evil twits who need to face justice.

Hope they find the bodies.  I don't think Kyron will ever be located here and it's devastating to his family still.

Never heard of this story, nor can I stomach reading about anymore missing kids... Sadly, this story I posted came onto my radar months ago. Was hoping they'd find the kids, obviously that isn't happening at this juncture and we know these two lowlifes (who are now in Hawaii) know where the kids are. 

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16 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

Awful.  Reminds me of the local Kyron Horman disappearance that's been unsolved now for 10 years.  Everybody including the police KNOW the step mother is hiding something, yet absent a body, they can't do diddly squat and she roams free today, refusing to answer any questions.  Sickens me.  These women are evil twits who need to face justice.

Hope they find the bodies.  I don't think Kyron will ever be located here and it's devastating to his family still.

Based on the hundreds of murder shows my wife watches to perfect how she’s going to kill me, I don’t think this is accurate.

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18 minutes ago, Getzlaf15 said:

Good... While I like giving them 5 days to produce the kids, what happens when they can't? They've already lied once and then disappeared... 

I suspect suicide is on the horizon for these two #######s, which honestly, I'd be happy with at this juncture short of producing evidence that these kids who haven't been seen or heard from in months are still alive. 

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Just read about this. 

If they don't find the kids fry them both immediately. 

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WTF, if she won't tell them where the kids are can't they arrest her on the spot?
 

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Since they both have dead previous spouses there’s a chance one of them will be dead soon anyway. 

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I don't get how this works. If they can't produce the children, then it is a contempt of court charge? How is the charge not more serious? And how crazy will all this be if the kids are alive and well and the parents are like, "The kids are fine. They are right here."

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21 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

Based on the hundreds of murder shows my wife watches to perfect how she’s going to kill me, I don’t think this is accurate.

It is in this case. :shrug:

Sucks.  

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21 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Good... While I like giving them 5 days to produce the kids, what happens when they can't? They've already lied once and then disappeared... 

I suspect suicide is on the horizon for these two #######s, which honestly, I'd be happy with at this juncture short of producing evidence that these kids who haven't been seen or heard from in months are still alive. 

CIA was torturing people for years to gather information.  Try some on this shrew and see if she speaks.  Why are we allowed to torture some people but not others?  

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4 hours ago, General Malaise said:

CIA was torturing people for years to gather information.  Try some on this shrew and see if she speaks.  Why are we allowed to torture some people but not others?  

I feel like we were on the opposite end of torture at some point somewhere during the last decade, but I can't remember. Yes, selectively I think torture is acceptable, like in this particular circumstance. Something tells me we would know where those poor kids are if this piece of human garbage was subjected to some torture. 

This article provides a good recap to some of the details; https://www.yahoo.com/news/mom-two-missing-kids-found-150631477.html

I forgot about some details in the OP, but the woman's brother who killed her ex husband (in self defense lol) , also died recently... The guy she remarried had a dead wife from 2 weeks before they tied the knot. 

Yes, torture is fair under these circumstances when looking at the lowlifes involved. 

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5 hours ago, General Malaise said:

CIA was torturing people for years to gather information.  Try some on this shrew and see if she speaks.  Why are we allowed to torture some people but not others?  

Doesn't work.

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20 hours ago, Clown Car said:

Since they both have dead previous spouses there’s a chance one of them will be dead soon anyway. 

This is what I call logical progression.

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5 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

This is what I call logical progression.

The surviving spouse will probably call it a slippery slope 

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57 minutes ago, Tick said:

Doesn't work.

You sure about that?  Our CIA was doing it for a long long time.  Seems weird if it wasn't working.  About to start a book on it. Will report back. 

Torture this termegant anyway, I say.  

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41 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

You sure about that?  Our CIA was doing it for a long long time.  Seems weird if it wasn't working.  About to start a book on it. Will report back. 

What book?  Maybe I'll do a book club.

I've seen some study summaries in relatively non-political scientific magazines/sites.  The summary seems to be that torture just makes people say what you want them to say, and it isn't reliable.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/the-science-is-clear-torture-doesnt-work

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830471-200-torture-doesnt-work-says-science-why-are-we-still-doing-it/

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/scientists-trump-torture-doesn-t-work

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/we-rsquo-ve-known-for-400-years-that-torture-doesn-rsquo-t-work/

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45 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

Our CIA was doing it for a long long time.  Seems weird if it wasn't working. 

Also, lol

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22 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

I feel like we were on the opposite end of torture at some point somewhere during the last decade, but I can't remember. Yes, selectively I think torture is acceptable, like in this particular circumstance. Something tells me we would know where those poor kids are if this piece of human garbage was subjected to some torture. 

This article provides a good recap to some of the details; https://www.yahoo.com/news/mom-two-missing-kids-found-150631477.html

I forgot about some details in the OP, but the woman's brother who killed her ex husband (in self defense lol) , also died recently... The guy she remarried had a dead wife from 2 weeks before they tied the knot. 

Yes, torture is fair under these circumstances when looking at the lowlifes involved. 

So this guy is some sort of doomsday prophet? I missed that when I read the first article on these two. Well there goes any chance there would be a happy ending for those kids. So sad...

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On 1/27/2020 at 3:10 PM, General Malaise said:

Awful.  Reminds me of the local Kyron Horman disappearance that's been unsolved now for 10 years.  Everybody including the police KNOW the step mother is hiding something, yet absent a body, they can't do diddly squat and she roams free today, refusing to answer any questions.  Sickens me.  These women are evil twits who need to face justice.

Hope they find the bodies.  I don't think Kyron will ever be located here and it's devastating to his family still.

I think about the Kyron Horman case often, amazes me how he hasn't been found yet.

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On 1/27/2020 at 2:07 PM, fantasycurse42 said:

How are they both not in custody? 

The kids could be with some cult somewhere.  I reckon they are hoping the couple will give something away as to their whereabouts.  The uncertainty here prevents more drastic measures.

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If my kids were missing for this long I would have been arrested, right?

So the police must know where they are and legally are worried about doing anything, right?

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1 hour ago, Hov34 said:

If my kids were missing for this long I would have been arrested, right?

So the police must know where they are and legally are worried about doing anything, right?

??? How does that work?  

Parents don't claim kidnapping - then don't produce kids. 

Arrest and jailed.  

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So it sounds like the parents haven't been arrested because so far all they've done is disobey a court order, which is a misdemeanor.

There's no evidence the children have been harmed, just the police don't know where they are. Daybell is a cult leader, and cults are notorious for not cooperating with the authories. 

It could be the kids are fine in some compound somewhere. 

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1 hour ago, Hov34 said:

If my kids were missing for this long I would have been arrested, right?

So the police must know where they are and legally are worried about doing anything, right?

It doesn't make sense but I live in a city that's been missing a boy for a decade and everybody including law enforcement knows his step mom is responsible, but free she roams today.  Absent a body, nothing can be done, we are told. 

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1 hour ago, General Malaise said:

It doesn't make sense but I live in a city that's been missing a boy for a decade and everybody including law enforcement knows his step mom is responsible, but free she roams today.  Absent a body, nothing can be done, we are told. 

It sounds like without a body, there’s no evidence that anyone’s committed a crime. There’s speculation that the step mom is responsible, but you don’t actually know, you just assume that you do.

One thing people don’t understand is that the criminal justice system in this country is set up not to imprison criminals but to try and avoid imprisoning innocents. That’s why everyone is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and why the courts try to get jurors who haven’t been influenced by the court of public opinion.

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58 minutes ago, bcdjr1 said:

It sounds like without a body, there’s no evidence that anyone’s committed a crime. There’s speculation that the step mom is responsible, but you don’t actually know, you just assume that you do.

One thing people don’t understand is that the criminal justice system in this country is set up not to imprison criminals but to try and avoid imprisoning innocents. That’s why everyone is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and why the courts try to get jurors who haven’t been influenced by the court of public opinion.

Also, prosecutors only get one bite at the apple.  They need evidence to get a conviction, not just "everybody knows this".

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There's got to be some laws of some sort requiring parents to actively take care of their kids.

It's not something I ever thought about honestly, so I'm not sure how this is defined legally.

But if a legal guardian is responsible for minor children, and the kids disappear, and you don't have a legit explanation for it... something legal has to happen, right? 

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28 minutes ago, bcat01 said:

Could they arrest them for truancy?

 

I think they have to know where the kids are live in order to do that.    

I assume the grandparents already called Child Protective Services but I would have made allegations that the couple had been physically and mentally abusing the children.  I would think that would trigger an investigation and force the mother to produce the children but I am guessing they already tried that.

It just doesn't seem right that a parent has the ability to block a court order to prove the child has not been harmed.   

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3 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

I think they have to know where the kids are live in order to do that.    

I assume the grandparents already called Child Protective Services but I would have made allegations that the couple had been physically and mentally abusing the children.  I would think that would trigger an investigation and force the mother to produce the children but I am guessing they already tried that.

It just doesn't seem right that a parent has the ability to block a court order to prove the child has not been harmed.   

They can't block it, they just aren't complying. And apparently that's a misdemeanor in Idaho, so the court may fine them. 

Cults usually feel that this is a free country and that people and especially the government need to mind their own business and not worry about how they live their lives or raise their children. 

Without evidence that the children are in danger or being harmed, the government doesn't have the right to force their way into the situation. 

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Just now, bcdjr1 said:

They can't block it, they just aren't complying. And apparently that's a misdemeanor in Idaho, so the court may fine them. 

Cults usually feel that this is a free country and that people and especially the government need to mind their own business and not worry about how they live their lives or raise their children. 

Without evidence that the children are in danger or being harmed, the government doesn't have the right to force their way into the situation. 

Yes I understand that, poor choice of words on my part.   

I imagine the FBI is investigating and looking for that evidence.  They may never find it if these two covered their tracks well enough.  Sick...

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19 hours ago, bcdjr1 said:

It sounds like without a body, there’s no evidence that anyone’s committed a crime. There’s speculation that the step mom is responsible, but you don’t actually know, you just assume that you do.

One thing people don’t understand is that the criminal justice system in this country is set up not to imprison criminals but to try and avoid imprisoning innocents. That’s why everyone is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and why the courts try to get jurors who haven’t been influenced by the court of public opinion.

Yes, I made that very point in the first post in this thread:

 

Quote

 

  On 1/27/2020 at 12:07 PM, General Malaise said:

 

Awful.  Reminds me of the local Kyron Horman disappearance that's been unsolved now for 10 years.  Everybody including the police KNOW the step mother is hiding something, yet absent a body, they can't do diddly squat and she roams free today, refusing to answer any questions.

 

I do assume the step mother is responsible.  But absent Kyron's body turning up, ain't nothing to be done.  Been that way for 10 years now.  

 

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3 hours ago, bcdjr1 said:

Without evidence that the children are     in danger or being harmed, the government doesn't have the right to force their way into the situation. 

This is my question about the legal side... it can't be just a misdemeanor to be unable to demonstrate that your children still exist.

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10 minutes ago, NotSmart said:

This is my question about the legal side... it can't be just a misdemeanor to be unable to demonstrate that your children still exist.

It's a misdemeanor to defy the court order. The court order is requesting that they prove their kids still exist. 

There's no law saying that they have to prove that the kids are ok. The government can't just ask you to prove that your kids are doing well from time to time. This is a country where the government is supposed to prove cause before they get involved in your business. That's what the court order is for.

And there is nothing saying that they can't demonstrate that the kids are fine, they are just choosing not to. 

Edited by bcdjr1

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1 hour ago, Getzlaf15 said:
On 2/18/2020 at 11:05 AM, NotSmart said:

This is my question about the legal side... it can't be just a misdemeanor to be unable to demonstrate that your children still exist.

Apparently "desertion and nonsupport of dependent children" is a felony.

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35 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Apparently "desertion and nonsupport of dependent children" is a felony.

Why did this take so long? Both kids are minors. If this path was available to authorities, why wait so long?

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It's important to remember that there are three other murders/deaths that the couple may be involved in. While the missing kids are a priority, you have to be careful not to jeopardize the other investigations as well in regards to evidence and procedures.

(Yes, I know her estranged husband was shot by her brother but what role did she and Daybell have in that killing?)

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17 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

Why did this take so long? Both kids are minors. If this path was available to authorities, why wait so long?

They were probably conducting investigations to gather enough evidence to get a prosecutor willing to charge her and a judge willing to sign off on an arrest warrant.

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On 2/17/2020 at 6:22 PM, Mrs. Rannous said:

Also, prosecutors only get one bite at the apple.  They need evidence to get a conviction, not just "everybody knows this".

Which is why they don't rush in until they have that evidence.

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She waived extradition and is en route to Idaho

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20 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

She waived extradition and is en route to Idaho

I had a Private Idaho joke ready but perhaps this is not the time.

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