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***2020 Democrat Primary/Caucus Thread*** Biden Is Your Demoractic Nominee

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8 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

The problem with forgiving student loan debt is that it is giving a benefit to a class thst is already statistically well off (college graduates).  It doesn't actually help the poor or make college more affordable to get into

By that same token, one of the groups we should be focusing on in the student loan forgiveness discussion is people who weren’t able to finish college. They hold relatively little debt but it’s especially burdensome for them because they didn’t end up with a degree and have lower earning than graduates. Compared to comprehensive loan forgiveness, canceling those people’s debt would be a pretty cheap intervention and would give relief to some of the people who need it most.

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17 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Yup..Maybe we should start with 2 years free tuition and day care at any community college or trade school and see how that works out.

I live in NY. I know a few years ago we started statewide giving free tuition to any in state full time student to attend a state school as long as income is <126k/year. The caveat is that you agree to live and work in NYS after graduation for as long as you take assistance.

There are a whole bunch of ways to do this thing.

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8 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

You also have people that chose inferior schools to not have debt.  Doesn't seem fair that after the fact someone can have a Stanford education for free via best forgiveness while the person who paid in full to go to Northeast California State School of the Good Enough gets stuck with that schools degree.  Fair would be to give everyone who went to college $50k and call it a day.  

That said, doesn't either scenario just widen the gap between rich and poor?

Is debt taken into effect when determining poverty? Or debt payments?

If yes - fewer people in debt= more people having more money to themselves=fewer poor people

If it is only based on gross income I'd say that is a poor way of determining poverty

Edited by msommer

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6 hours ago, hagmania said:

Don't have to, but it will need to be a two-horse race to give Bernie a credible challenge imo.

I don't know. Warren looks like she can be vicious if backed into a corner

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On 2/12/2020 at 2:12 AM, Daywalker said:

They owed the democratic party their vote.  They didnt come out.  If they dont come out this time?  Oh well.

Most people voted against Trump.  Millions.

About 47% of eligible voters didn't vote.  That is a massive portion of the country that has checked out from the election process.  Almost as big a margin as Trump/Clinton voters themselves.  

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It's interesting to revisit the 2016 DNC convention.  I remember how cringe and out of touch the party was.  I'm a little mad I missed it at the time but Al Franken/Sarah Silverman's 'unity' speech was a complete trainwreck.  If DNC manages to screw these people again they will lose to Trump, and deserve it.  

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Perhaps topical, given how much Bernie has talked about the "Scandinavian" model in the past. I put "Scandinavian" in quotes as the Swedishm, Norwegian and Danish models differ, and I know most about the Danish (for obvious reasons).

The Danish model

1. College/university is mostly free (you pay your own books, but only the books). Any tuition not offered by the college is also paid for by yourself (it's not very commonly offered). Usually tuition, apart from auditorium lectures, is only offered when you are writing your thesis. This up to Master's level

2. While you are enrolled to study a subject matter you can get a stipend for the period that it would (per the norm) take to finish a Master's degree (I believe 5.5 years).

3.The size of the stipend depends on whether you study while living with your parents or elsewhere (min 14 miles from your parents). There are two levels - studying from you parents home nets you about $150, from elsewhere $900. The stipend is taxable.

4. While receiving the stipend you are capped in what you can make from side jobs, such as waiting tables, bartending etc. to about $16000 pre tax per year. If you make more you have to pay part of or all the stipend back with your post tax income (so a bad deal all around). The idea is to incentivate you to effing finish and not get sidetracked by working too much on the side.

5. While enrolled to study you may take student loans that are backed by the government to the level of the max stipend per month. The interest is fixed by law to be 1 percentage point above the National Banks interbank interest rate (this is currently negative). So, while it fluctuates, it is always far better than any commercially available loan. You can start paying it off the minute you graduate or I believe wait up to two years before payment of 1st parcel is required. It has to be paid back within 15 years, sometimes shorter, but I am unfamiliar with the mechanism for determining the length of that period

6. While college is free you cannot just enroll to any study you want. When graduating the equivalent of HS you get a grade average from the topics you studied in HS. These topics you studied at (self chosen) varied levels from A-C with a minimum of A (top), B (middle) and C level topics. Certain studies require a language at A level, or math etc, so there the crowd is weened out a bit to beging with (you can supplement this by subsequently, for free, retaking say a B level topic to the A level, and the new grade will then influence your grade score). Once a year, shortly after you graduated HS, the universities open for enrollment, and you apply to the majors you are interested in, with a priority list. Could be 1. Psychology at Copenhagen University 2. Phychology at Århus University 3. International Business Studies (essentially an MBA) at Copenhagen Business School etc. You can have 8 items on your priority list. Automatically your grades are attached. What the universities then do is e.g. there are 200 spaces on Psychology at Copenhagen University. If they get 1000 applicants, they take the 200 applicants with the highest grades, then post the cut off grade average and inform the applicants whether they made it or not. Then onto 2. priority, 3rd etc - but still cooridinated with the other universities (big IT system I am sure). Most applicants get accepted to something on their priority list (or a waiting list), but in case they don't the universities publish which studies have open spaces and you can have a second go with a second deadline.

7. You may be able to switch studies/majors during your enrollment but whether you can transfer some or all of your merits to you new major is up to the university. The stipend clock doesn't reset if you do (it never does). What you can do is to pause it if you take leave from your studies to pursue something else (or work you ### off for a period to save up money) or just because you feel you will need that stipend later (I believe it is possible while writing your thesis to get double stipend paid out if you have saved up from other months, thus allowing you to concentrate on the thesis)

I think that covers most of it, whether it is scalable or some parts of it is (IMHO the latter), I'll leave for you to discuss

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What are expectations for Nevada?

I think Pete and Amy continue to flex how good their message and organization are with another stronger than anticipated showing.

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2 minutes ago, hagmania said:

What are expectations for Nevada?

I think Pete and Amy continue to flex how good their message and organization are with another stronger than anticipated showing.

There hasn’t been much polling recently.  I assume something will come out soon.  Biden was doing well and Steyer spent a ton of money on ads but poor performances in the last two states should hurt both of them.  My guess is Sanders will be a clear winner and the moderates will have their votes divided up.

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45 minutes ago, hagmania said:

What are expectations for Nevada?

I think Pete and Amy continue to flex how good their message and organization are with another stronger than anticipated showing.

If Pete and Amy do well in Nevada then everyone else should start to prepare to close up shop in that tiny window between South Carolina and Super Tuesday. They've not invested much in Nevada, if they have a ground game I'm not aware of it, and they're still fairly light on resources. 

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

If Pete and Amy do well in Nevada then everyone else should start to prepare to close up shop in that tiny window between South Carolina and Super Tuesday. They've not invested much in Nevada, if they have a ground game I'm not aware of it, and they're still fairly light on resources. 

Yep, these are important data points.

If they aren't heavily invested into Nevada that is a much tougher road. Their strength has been in playing to win.

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

If Pete and Amy do well in Nevada then everyone else should start to prepare to close up shop in that tiny window between South Carolina and Super Tuesday. They've not invested much in Nevada, if they have a ground game I'm not aware of it, and they're still fairly light on resources. 

Sanders and Bloomberg aren’t going anywhere.  It seems possible Biden and Warren could drop out before Super Tuesday I guess even though they’re both still talking a good game.

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1 minute ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Sanders and Bloomberg aren’t going anywhere.  It seems possible Biden and Warren could drop out before Super Tuesday I guess even though they’re both still talking a good game.

Of course, I was referring to the rest of them.

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10 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

Because multiple studies have shown that financial success without a college degree is a lot less probable than with one. 

Yeah - I had a ton of debt coming out of college but there’s no doubt it got me to where I am today.  The only thing I would do differently is I would have paid a little more while going instead of just relying so much on my loans.  But I ain’t hurting at all and paid mine off.

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2 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

There hasn’t been much polling recently.  I assume something will come out soon.  Biden was doing well and Steyer spent a ton of money on ads but poor performances in the last two states should hurt both of them.  My guess is Sanders will be a clear winner and the moderates will have their votes divided up.

Sanders may have been hurt in Nevada by his more Trumpian supporters who did their online attack thing against the culinary union, costing him perhaps the most important endorsement in that state.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/482850-culinary-union-disappointing-to-see-sanders-supporters-attacking-us-over

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11 hours ago, caustic said:

By that same token, one of the groups we should be focusing on in the student loan forgiveness discussion is people who weren’t able to finish college. They hold relatively little debt but it’s especially burdensome for them because they didn’t end up with a degree and have lower earning than graduates. Compared to comprehensive loan forgiveness, canceling those people’s debt would be a pretty cheap intervention and would give relief to some of the people who need it most.

Point well taken.  I believe most studies of the college wage premium show that "some college" is a lot closer to just having a high school degree than college graduate.  The concern with your proposal would be it raises the propensity of marginal students to drop out. 

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11 hours ago, hagmania said:

I don't disagree with this at all.

Bernie is not about free stuff, tho. We still gotta pay for it. What a narrative this turns into.

I'm not really a fan of funding mechanisms like a wealth or financial transaction tax either.  Detailed budget proposals for Bernie will be interesting. 

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3 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Sanders may have been hurt in Nevada by his more Trumpian supporters who did their online attack thing against the culinary union, costing him perhaps the most important endorsement in that state.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/482850-culinary-union-disappointing-to-see-sanders-supporters-attacking-us-over

With Warren on life support, I’ve pretty much resigned myself to supporting Sanders. But his online supporters do not make it easy. I liken it when I moved to Boston. I was a Red Sox fan at the time. In one year, they managed to make me hate every Boston sports team with a fiery passion. 

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12 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

With Warren on life support, I’ve pretty much resigned myself to supporting Sanders. But his online supporters do not make it easy. I liken it when I moved to Boston. I was a Red Sox fan at the time. In one year, they managed to make me hate every Boston sports team with a fiery passion. 

I saw a report that numerous Iowa caucasers in Buttigieg’s and Klobuchar’s camps said that they liked Sanders as a candidate, but wouldn’t caucus for him because of his supporters.

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1 hour ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Sanders may have been hurt in Nevada by his more Trumpian supporters who did their online attack thing against the culinary union, costing him perhaps the most important endorsement in that state.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/482850-culinary-union-disappointing-to-see-sanders-supporters-attacking-us-over

"How dare you attack us for attacking you" -- is how that reads to me. 

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5 hours ago, msommer said:

Perhaps topical, given how much Bernie has talked about the "Scandinavian" model in the past. I put "Scandinavian" in quotes as the Swedishm, Norwegian and Danish models differ, and I know most about the Danish (for obvious reasons).

The Danish model

1. College/university is mostly free (you pay your own books, but only the books). Any tuition not offered by the college is also paid for by yourself (it's not very commonly offered). Usually tuition, apart from auditorium lectures, is only offered when you are writing your thesis. This up to Master's level

2. While you are enrolled to study a subject matter you can get a stipend for the period that it would (per the norm) take to finish a Master's degree (I believe 5.5 years).

3.The size of the stipend depends on whether you study while living with your parents or elsewhere (min 14 miles from your parents). There are two levels - studying from you parents home nets you about $150, from elsewhere $900. The stipend is taxable.

4. While receiving the stipend you are capped in what you can make from side jobs, such as waiting tables, bartending etc. to about $16000 pre tax per year. If you make more you have to pay part of or all the stipend back with your post tax income (so a bad deal all around). The idea is to incentivate you to effing finish and not get sidetracked by working too much on the side.

5. While enrolled to study you may take student loans that are backed by the government to the level of the max stipend per month. The interest is fixed by law to be 1 percentage point above the National Banks interbank interest rate (this is currently negative). So, while it fluctuates, it is always far better than any commercially available loan. You can start paying it off the minute you graduate or I believe wait up to two years before payment of 1st parcel is required. It has to be paid back within 15 years, sometimes shorter, but I am unfamiliar with the mechanism for determining the length of that period

6. While college is free you cannot just enroll to any study you want. When graduating the equivalent of HS you get a grade average from the topics you studied in HS. These topics you studied at (self chosen) varied levels from A-C with a minimum of A (top), B (middle) and C level topics. Certain studies require a language at A level, or math etc, so there the crowd is weened out a bit to beging with (you can supplement this by subsequently, for free, retaking say a B level topic to the A level, and the new grade will then influence your grade score). Once a year, shortly after you graduated HS, the universities open for enrollment, and you apply to the majors you are interested in, with a priority list. Could be 1. Psychology at Copenhagen University 2. Phychology at Århus University 3. International Business Studies (essentially an MBA) at Copenhagen Business School etc. You can have 8 items on your priority list. Automatically your grades are attached. What the universities then do is e.g. there are 200 spaces on Psychology at Copenhagen University. If they get 1000 applicants, they take the 200 applicants with the highest grades, then post the cut off grade average and inform the applicants whether they made it or not. Then onto 2. priority, 3rd etc - but still cooridinated with the other universities (big IT system I am sure). Most applicants get accepted to something on their priority list (or a waiting list), but in case they don't the universities publish which studies have open spaces and you can have a second go with a second deadline.

7. You may be able to switch studies/majors during your enrollment but whether you can transfer some or all of your merits to you new major is up to the university. The stipend clock doesn't reset if you do (it never does). What you can do is to pause it if you take leave from your studies to pursue something else (or work you ### off for a period to save up money) or just because you feel you will need that stipend later (I believe it is possible while writing your thesis to get double stipend paid out if you have saved up from other months, thus allowing you to concentrate on the thesis)

I think that covers most of it, whether it is scalable or some parts of it is (IMHO the latter), I'll leave for you to discuss

Thanks for this information. I like this system.  But we have choices to make...funding a merit-based system to educate a future-moving work-force or buying a couple of more battleships.

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18 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:
1 hour ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

Sanders may have been hurt in Nevada by his more Trumpian supporters who did their online attack thing against the culinary union, costing him perhaps the most important endorsement in that state.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/482850-culinary-union-disappointing-to-see-sanders-supporters-attacking-us-over

"How dare you attack us for attacking you" -- is how that reads to me. 

As a follow-up Bernie makes the same points on this that I've made around here before

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1 hour ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

With Warren on life support, I’ve pretty much resigned myself to supporting Sanders. But his online supporters do not make it easy. I liken it when I moved to Boston. I was a Red Sox fan at the time. In one year, they managed to make me hate every Boston sports team with a fiery passion

There's a good fellow.

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What’s up with Bernie’s medical records?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/13/sanders-trump-media-114791

Voters in 2016 should not have voted for a candidate who refused to release his medical records, his tax returns, or his plan to divest his business assets.

Voters in 2020 have less of an excuse.

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27 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

"How dare you attack us for attacking you" -- is how that reads to me. 

No.

The union didn’t attack him.

Bernie’s online supporters didn’t politely point out any error made by the culinary union. They did the MAGA-style online harassment thing.

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5 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

What’s up with Bernie’s medical records?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/13/sanders-trump-media-114791

Voters in 2016 should have refused to vote for a candidate who refused to release his medical records, his tax returns, or his plan to divest his business assets.

Voters in 2020 have less of an excuse.

It’s disappointing he won’t release the records from after his heart attack, although it has spawned my favorite Incredibly stupid conspiracy theory. Which is that he made up the heart attack to cover up that he got Botox. 

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17 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

As a follow-up Bernie makes the same points on this that I've made around here before

I completely agree with Bernie substantively. Not having to negotiate health care every cycle would help unions and employers. 

But you can make that point without going after the union. 

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Iowa

Moderates - 54%

Progressives - 44%

NH

Moderates - 53.5%

Progressives - 35%

 

I am just using Sanders, Warren vs Pete, Amy and Joe

 

Once the Democrats figure out which moderate to get behind you can see the moderate vote is what is stronger. So again I say this. If Sanders wins.....a lot of those moderate votes are going to hold their nose and vote Trump. So again if Sanders is the democratic nominee......get ready for 4 more years. 

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33 minutes ago, Todem said:

If Sanders wins.....a lot of those moderate votes are going to hold their nose and vote Trump. So again if Sanders is the democratic nominee......get ready for 4 more years. 

They should just become Republicans at this point if that's the case.

Edited by Navin Johnson
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7 hours ago, msommer said:

Perhaps topical, given how much Bernie has talked about the "Scandinavian" model in the past. I put "Scandinavian" in quotes as the Swedishm, Norwegian and Danish models differ, and I know most about the Danish (for obvious reasons).

The Danish model

1. College/university is mostly free (you pay your own books, but only the books). Any tuition not offered by the college is also paid for by yourself (it's not very commonly offered). Usually tuition, apart from auditorium lectures, is only offered when you are writing your thesis. This up to Master's level

2. While you are enrolled to study a subject matter you can get a stipend for the period that it would (per the norm) take to finish a Master's degree (I believe 5.5 years).

3.The size of the stipend depends on whether you study while living with your parents or elsewhere (min 14 miles from your parents). There are two levels - studying from you parents home nets you about $150, from elsewhere $900. The stipend is taxable.

4. While receiving the stipend you are capped in what you can make from side jobs, such as waiting tables, bartending etc. to about $16000 pre tax per year. If you make more you have to pay part of or all the stipend back with your post tax income (so a bad deal all around). The idea is to incentivate you to effing finish and not get sidetracked by working too much on the side.

5. While enrolled to study you may take student loans that are backed by the government to the level of the max stipend per month. The interest is fixed by law to be 1 percentage point above the National Banks interbank interest rate (this is currently negative). So, while it fluctuates, it is always far better than any commercially available loan. You can start paying it off the minute you graduate or I believe wait up to two years before payment of 1st parcel is required. It has to be paid back within 15 years, sometimes shorter, but I am unfamiliar with the mechanism for determining the length of that period

6. While college is free you cannot just enroll to any study you want. When graduating the equivalent of HS you get a grade average from the topics you studied in HS. These topics you studied at (self chosen) varied levels from A-C with a minimum of A (top), B (middle) and C level topics. Certain studies require a language at A level, or math etc, so there the crowd is weened out a bit to beging with (you can supplement this by subsequently, for free, retaking say a B level topic to the A level, and the new grade will then influence your grade score). Once a year, shortly after you graduated HS, the universities open for enrollment, and you apply to the majors you are interested in, with a priority list. Could be 1. Psychology at Copenhagen University 2. Phychology at Århus University 3. International Business Studies (essentially an MBA) at Copenhagen Business School etc. You can have 8 items on your priority list. Automatically your grades are attached. What the universities then do is e.g. there are 200 spaces on Psychology at Copenhagen University. If they get 1000 applicants, they take the 200 applicants with the highest grades, then post the cut off grade average and inform the applicants whether they made it or not. Then onto 2. priority, 3rd etc - but still cooridinated with the other universities (big IT system I am sure). Most applicants get accepted to something on their priority list (or a waiting list), but in case they don't the universities publish which studies have open spaces and you can have a second go with a second deadline.

7. You may be able to switch studies/majors during your enrollment but whether you can transfer some or all of your merits to you new major is up to the university. The stipend clock doesn't reset if you do (it never does). What you can do is to pause it if you take leave from your studies to pursue something else (or work you ### off for a period to save up money) or just because you feel you will need that stipend later (I believe it is possible while writing your thesis to get double stipend paid out if you have saved up from other months, thus allowing you to concentrate on the thesis)

I think that covers most of it, whether it is scalable or some parts of it is (IMHO the latter), I'll leave for you to discuss

Probably deserves its own thread.

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23 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

They should just become Republicans at this point if that's the case.

Ridiculous statement. 

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36 minutes ago, Todem said:

Iowa

Moderates - 54%

Progressives - 44%

NH

Moderates - 53.5%

Progressives - 35%

 

I am just using Sanders, Warren vs Pete, Amy and Joe

 

Once the Democrats figure out which moderate to get behind you can see the moderate vote is what is stronger. So again I say this. If Sanders wins.....a lot of those moderate votes are going to hold their nose and vote Trump. So again if Sanders is the democratic nominee......get ready for 4 more years. 

The problem is that “lane” analysis is rarely borne out when candidates exit a race. Trump is a prime example.  In an even more crowded field, he also had a plurality. And when guys like Jeb!, Rubio, and Christie dropped out, the conventional wisdom was that their supporters would then align with another candidate in the establishment “lane.”  That didn’t happen. Jeb voters didn’t break for Rubio. They broke in about the existing percentages already in the race 

And I imagine the same is true now. Warren voters won’t all transfer to Bernie. Biden voters won’t all transfer to other “moderates.”

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2 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

The problem is that “lane” analysis is rarely borne out when candidates exit a race. Trump is a prime example.  In an even more crowded field, he also had a plurality. And when guys like Jeb!, Rubio, and Christie dropped out, the conventional wisdom was that their supporters would then align with another candidate in the establishment “lane.”  That didn’t happen. Jeb voters didn’t break for Rubio. They broke in about the existing percentages already in the race 

And I imagine the same is true now. Warren voters won’t all transfer to Bernie. Biden voters won’t all transfer to other “moderates.”

Yeah good point. I do think there was a lot of anti-Hillary that swung to Trump in the big states. I don't think anti-Trump people are swinging to Bernie Sanders with an economy this strong. Would they swing to Pete, or Bloomberg? Absolutely think they can. But not Bernie. 

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6 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

Why is that?  What is it that draws you to the democratic party over the GOP?

I have always felt the Democratic party was the far more moderate party at the table. But with candidates like Sanders and Warren.....that goes right out the window. If they produce a moderate candidate they have a good chance to make this a race. If they don't. Game over. Look it's my opinion. And I can only speak to the climate down here in South Florida which is a mis mosh of socio-economic people. We have it all. North of Palm Beach and it is Red Country. But the tri-county area (Dade, Broward and Palm Beach) has been traditionally Blue. I would be stunned if Sanders is the guy running against Trump that the tri county area stays blue. Why? Most of the states wealth is down here and they are not Sanders supporters. They want a moderate Democrat. Not a socialist. 

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2 minutes ago, Todem said:

I have always felt the Democratic party was the far more moderate party at the table. But with candidates like Sanders and Warren.....that goes right out the window. If they produce a moderate candidate they have a good chance to make this a race. If they don't. Game over. Look it's my opinion. And I can only speak to the climate down here in South Florida which is a mis mosh of socio-economic people. We have it all. North of Palm Beach and it is Red Country. But the tri-county area (Dade, Broward and Palm Beach) has been traditionally Blue. I would be stunned if Sanders is the guy running against Trump that the tri county area stays blue. Why? Most of the states wealth is down here and they are not Sanders supporters. They want a moderate Democrat. Not a socialist. 

You didn't answer the question.

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Just now, Navin Johnson said:

You didn't answer the question.

I did. You asked me what draws me to democratic party over the GOP. I told you. In my opinion they have always been the moderate party.

Sanders and Warren do not represent moderate democrats at all.

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Just now, Todem said:

I did. You asked me what draws me to democratic party over the GOP. I told you. In my opinion they have always been the moderate party.

Sanders and Warren do not represent moderate democrats at all.

What specific issues?

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Just now, Navin Johnson said:

What specific issues?

Fiscal and social. Traditionally when we have had Moderates in the White House (Bill, Obama and yes George W and Ronald Reagan) we have been able to pass many "bi-partisan" agreements for the betterment of everyone.

In today's political climate with people like Sanders and Warren looking to re-distribute wealth and Trump and his WWE antics......moderate politics has been turned on it's head.

Once these idiots in Washington can start acting like adults and compromise again maybe we can get back to real government and working for all the people......not your special interests.

Promising to blow up Wall Street and the Banking world and re-distribute wealth, take away true private health care, is not a way to earn the trust and confidence of Democrats who have means and who vote and have serious influence in the country. 

Hence why Sanders or Warren are going to ruin any chance the Democrats have of taking back the White House if either of them were the nominee. If you think otherwise great. Your view, your opinion. 

I am not here to say who is right or who is wrong. I am here to simply state my opinion. Which seems like an impossible thing to do anymore. 

I would vote for anyone not named Sanders or Warren. I vote for capitalism. Always have and always will. I will not knowingly vote for people who are self described socialists. 

We have more than enough social programs in the country between, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. If it were not for Medicaid my sister in-law would be dead.

There are ways to sustain all these programs by meeting at the table like adults and hammering it out.

The problem is you have two sides that insist on their way or the highway. It is madness. Both the Democratic party and Republican party have failed the people in recent history. Moderate politics and bi-partisan agreements....what the hell happened? 

Out of control.

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Would love to see a poll from NV. I’d assume Bernie is in the lead. Amy and Pete just don’t have the infrastructure in place to compete in this format. There’s not enough time.

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How are they blowing up Wall Street and the banking world?  By regulating them to lessen the possibility of another crisis?

M4A does not remove private health care.

The GOP has the same stance.  Again, specific issues that draw you to the Democratic Party.

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7 hours ago, msommer said:

2. While you are enrolled to study a subject matter you can get a stipend for the period that it would (per the norm) take to finish a Master's degree (I believe 5.5 years).

4. While receiving the stipend you are capped in what you can make from side jobs, such as waiting tables, bartending etc. to about $16000 pre tax per year. If you make more you have to pay part of or all the stipend back with your post tax income (so a bad deal all around). The idea is to incentivate you to effing finish and not get sidetracked by working too much on the side.

 

1. I have a GB that went 5.5 years and didn't even get his Associates.

B. Amazingly all of these years later he now owns decent sized, highly successful, construction company.  He should have been in trade school.

III Reading this is one of the few times I'm happy to be old. Thanks to the entire pantheon of gods I'll never have to go to school again.

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11 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

M4A does not remove private health care.

"Medicare for All" is intentionally vague. Some versions do away with private insurance, some don't.

Buttigieg, for example, wants people to have a choice between public and private options.

Warren's and Sanders's versions, I believe, would not include a private option (though I don't have all the different permutations memorized).

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13 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

How are they blowing up Wall Street and the banking world?  By regulating them to lessen the possibility of another crisis?

M4A does not remove private health care.

The GOP has the same stance.  Again, specific issues that draw you to the Democratic Party.

NO

Trump signs law rolling back post-financial crisis banking rules

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7 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

"Medicare for All" is intentionally vague. Some versions do away with private insurance, some don't.

Buttigieg, for example, wants people to have a choice between public and private options.

Warren's and Sanders's versions, I believe, would not include a private option (though I don't have all the different permutations memorized).

Pete’s plan is not M4A. It’s the public option atrociously branded as Medicare For Everyone who wants it. M4A bans private primary health insurance. I imagine MedSupp plans would still exist. 

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4 minutes ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Pete’s plan is not M4A. It’s the public option atrociously branded as Medicare For Everyone who wants it. M4A bans private primary health insurance. I imagine MedSupp plans would still exist. 

The branding of the term M4A intentionally covered both versions, including Pete's. I don't remember who was responsible for the branding I'm talking about, but I think it was someone official, like the DNC. I'm sure it's googleable, but I'm lazy.

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Just now, Maurile Tremblay said:

The branding of the term intentionally covered both versions, including Pete's. I don't remember who was responsible for the branding I'm talking about, but I think it was someone official, like the DNC. I'm sure it's googleable, but I'm lazy.

In any case, the candidates have all clearly distinguished the public option from Medicare For All. It’s been a key point of debate among them. 

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1 minute ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

In any case, the candidates have all clearly distinguished the public option from Medicare For All. It’s been a key point of debate among them. 

Yes. Buttigieg himself always includes "... Who Want It" to distinguish his plan from, e.g., Warren's.

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