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***2020 Democrat Primary/Caucus Thread*** Biden Is Your Demoractic Nominee

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I said “opposed.”

I never learned how to read.

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

Well, if he gets those he has 50.

As I said, name me 50 for M4A.

50 votes when you need 60 is the same as  40 votes.

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Just now, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

50 votes when you need 60 is the same as  40 votes.

It isn't.  I believe several can be turned by the bully pulpit.  Biden's really good at that.  One of the best, weirdly.

If Lyndon Johnson can get the Civil Rights Act passed, I think Biden can get this done.

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

The public option, for one.

You think?  I hope you're right, but I"m not seeing it.

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15 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

It isn't.  I believe several can be turned by the bully pulpit.  Biden's really good at that.  One of the best, weirdly.

If Lyndon Johnson can get the Civil Rights Act passed, I think Biden can get this done.

Yeah I’m sorta speechless here.  There was no Fox News in the 1960s.  Times have changed a lot over the past 50 years.    And 2020 Biden is not some master of the bully pulpit.

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2 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Yeah I’m sorta speechless here.  There was no Fox News in the 1960s.  Times have changed a lot over the past 50 years.    And 2020 Biden is not some master of the bully pulpit.

Who's the guy who turned three Republicans for the stimulus bill?

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6 hours ago, The Commish said:

Dems need to get on message....Healthcare, Environment and Education.  That's what gave them 2018 and suburbia.  

"Access to healthcare" and Biden's D- environmental grade are great starting points.

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6 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Who's the guy who turned three Republicans for the stimulus bill?

Shaft?

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Posted (edited)

Can we all at least agree that what Biden can get through a GOP controlled Senate is >= what Sanders can?    It may very well be nothing.   

Edited by NutterButter

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13 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Shaft?

Man, shut your mouth.

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34 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Who's the guy who turned three Republicans for the stimulus bill?

Olympia Snowe, Arlen Specter, Susan Collins.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

"Access to healthcare" and Biden's D- environmental grade are great starting points.

It's sad that this is significantly better than what we have in office today, but it is what it is.  Play the cards you're dealt.  That's all you can do :shrug: 

ETA:  By the way, has he even come out with an actual plan on environment?  I don't think I've seen one and it's not on his website.  A link would be helpful, TIA.

Edited by The Commish
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19 minutes ago, The Commish said:

It's sad that this is significantly better than what we have in office today, but it is what it is.  Play the cards you're dealt.  That's all you can do :shrug: 

ETA:  By the way, has he even come out with an actual plan on environment?  I don't think I've seen one and it's not on his website.  A link would be helpful, TIA.

This is his climate plan: https://joebiden.com/climate/

He's committed to net-zero emissions by 2050 but I'm not sure he knows how ambitious that goal truly is. His campaign rhetoric on climate has centered around reentering the Paris accord, which Cory Booker accurately described as "kindergarten stuff that nobody should get applause for."

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1 minute ago, caustic said:

This is his climate plan: https://joebiden.com/climate/

He's committed to net-zero emissions by 2050 but I'm not sure he knows how ambitious that goal truly is. His campaign rhetoric on climate has centered around reentering the Paris accord, which Cory Booker accurately described as "kindergarten stuff that nobody should get applause for."

Still better than the incumbent. Gotta take the cheap points too

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30 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Olympia Snowe, Arlen Specter, Susan Collins.

And got the votes to raise the debt ceiling and lower the bush tax cuts to only cover people making 400k or less per year?

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4 minutes ago, msommer said:

Still better than the incumbent. Gotta take the cheap points too

This is the problem with the country. I refuse to vote for a turd, polished or not so. Demand better.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, msommer said:

Still better than the incumbent. Gotta take the cheap points too

Of course -- the bar is on the floor right now. My hope is that Biden just appoints someone like Inslee and turns him loose because I don't think climate is one of Uncle Joe's strong suits.

Edited by caustic
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1 minute ago, ShamrockPride said:

This is the problem with the country. I refuse to vote for a turd, polished or not so. Demand better.

Or you could just sit out and accept the worst.

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7 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

And got the votes to raise the debt ceiling and lower the bush tax cuts to only cover people making 400k or less per year?

I don’t feel like researching these after looking up the last one.  With the possible exception of Murkowski, there will likely be no members of the Republican caucus that resemble the bipartisan flexibility of Snowe, Collins and Specter.  I think you are seriously overestimating the ability of anyone to get Republicans to vote for legislation pushed by Democrats, even the amazing Joe Biden.

With all that said, this dialogue has helped clarify for me why you’ve been such proponent of Biden over Bernie.  If I agreed with you on this stuff I would feel the same way.

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22 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I don’t feel like researching these after looking up the last one.  With the possible exception of Murkowski, there will likely be no members of the Republican caucus that resemble the bipartisan flexibility of Snowe, Collins and Specter.  I think you are seriously overestimating the ability of anyone to get Republicans to vote for legislation pushed by Democrats, even the amazing Joe Biden.

With all that said, this dialogue has helped clarify for me why you’ve been such proponent of Biden over Bernie.  If I agreed with you on this stuff I would feel the same way.

It isn’t a lock. But it’s a hell of a lot more likely with Joe than with the other guy.  

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MSNBC showing a graphic of the Carolinas, VA, TN, AL all saying over half of the demo would prefer to switch to M4A. Biden will need to address that. AAs going with the name recognition, voting against their own interests. Disappointing.

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43 minutes ago, caustic said:

Of course -- the bar is on the floor right now. My hope is that Biden just appoints someone like Inslee and turns him loose because I don't think climate is one of Uncle Joe's strong suits.

Would really really love to see Inslee as the climate czar. 

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21 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

MSNBC showing a graphic of the Carolinas, VA, TN, AL all saying over half of the demo would prefer to switch to M4A. Biden will need to address that. AAs going with the name recognition, voting against their own interests. Disappointing.

Every time you see a Medicare 4 All poll, it’s always the same result: the majority wants it, then they learn how much it will cost. Then the number goes way down. 

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8 hours ago, The Commish said:

It's like you completely forgot what happened in 2016.  Like it or not, if anyone other than Bernie is the nominee, you can't count on his support turning out if he's not top of the ticket.  If they stay home, the Dems are done.  I was encouraged by the totals last night until I remembered it included a LOT of people who are "Bernie or bust".

Just catching up on this thread but what are you basing the bolded on?

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8 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

I think you're right. And btw, congrats on being right about his comeback.

I think the only hope for Biden to get the Bernie Bros is to lead going into the convention and avoid their feeling cheated.

At some point it would be good if Biden could have a sit down with Bernie and give him a big task for getting on board - something Bernie would be passionate about.  Climate change maybe?

Bernie has to “put up or shut up” about Trump when the time comes and I have faith that he will.  I also don’t think we’ve reached that stage yet - let’s see how the next few weeks go.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Just catching up on this thread but what are you basing the bolded on?

Something like 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump in 2016. Approximately another 8% of Sanders voters didn't vote for Clinton (didn't vote or voted 3rd  party). I imagine the numbers will be similar this time.

 

Edited by Gr00vus

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20 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Every time you see a Medicare 4 All poll, it’s always the same result: the majority wants it, then they learn how much it will cost. Then the number goes way down. 

Also,  just because somebody is in favor of M4A doesn't mean it is their top priority.   Many people recognize that M4A is not going to pass in the next 4 years no matter who is President so voting for someone who wants to strengthen Obamacare is the more pragmatic approach.  That's not voting against your own interest.

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1 minute ago, Gr00vus said:

Something like 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump in 2016. I imagine the numbers will be similar this time.

Two things:

1. My understanding is that was not that far out of whack with Hillary/Obama numbers

2. Even if I have my facts wrong on #1 it doesn’t follow that there’s a LOT of those people, especially given Hillary is not Biden and everyone has had four years to watch the WPOTUS (worst).

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

Anybody hear Bernie today? He was defiant which is fine, he talked about issues on which he disagreed with Biden, which was fine. But then he attacked Biden for taking donations from billionaires and for being the candidate of “Wall Street and the Corporate Media”- not so fine. 

In his own way, Bernie can be as demonizing and divisive as President Trump. 

He's as "demonizing and divisive" as Trump for telling the truth?

Talk about demonizing someone.

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Posted (edited)

Bernie running TV ad’s here (South Florida) trying to make people believe Obama endorsed him already. Showing Obama speaking.....but not using his name....then saying feel the burn. 

Deceptive. 

 

Edited by Todem

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Just now, Todem said:

Bernie running TV ad’s here trying to make people believe Obama endorsed him already. Showing Obama speaking.....but not using his name....then saying feel the burn. 

Deceptive. 

 

Wait...so Obama isn’t the Democratic establishment now? Looks like Bernie finally figured he also has to earn the rest of the Democratic voters he’s been railing against.

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2 hours ago, caustic said:

This is his climate plan: https://joebiden.com/climate/

He's committed to net-zero emissions by 2050 but I'm not sure he knows how ambitious that goal truly is. His campaign rhetoric on climate has centered around reentering the Paris accord, which Cory Booker accurately described as "kindergarten stuff that nobody should get applause for."

Kinda my point.  I know Trump's a low bar, but this isn't close to an actual plan.

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

Just catching up on this thread but what are you basing the bolded on?

History and current day observation.  Tim may be correct that it's simply a vocal minority.  That wasn't the case in 2016.  He may also be correct that their attitude was primarily because Hillary was the alternative, but current day comments from the likes of social media say otherwise.  I might turn on our media for a bit to see what his talking heads are actually saying.  Last time, the last thing they were attempting to do was unify.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Every time you see a Medicare 4 All poll, it’s always the same result: the majority wants it, then they learn how much it will cost. Then the number goes way down. 

Do they then compare the total cost of health care to today to show that private health care costs would decline more than public health care costs rise?

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

History and current day observation.  Tim may be correct that it's simply a vocal minority.  That wasn't the case in 2016.  He may also be correct that their attitude was primarily because Hillary was the alternative, but current day comments from the likes of social media say otherwise.  I might turn on our media for a bit to see what his talking heads are actually saying.  Last time, the last thing they were attempting to do was unify.

I’m not on any social media so can’t say - I do consistently hear that Bernie fans are horrible online but my thoughts has always been “how many damn people do you people follow??”

I will be very disappointed if Bernie doesn’t strongly endorse Biden and work to get him elected.

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39 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I’m not on any social media so can’t say - I do consistently hear that Bernie fans are horrible online but my thoughts has always been “how many damn people do you people follow??”

I will be very disappointed if Bernie doesn’t strongly endorse Biden and work to get him elected.

Bernie will. His supporters won’t.

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4 minutes ago, Phil Elliott said:

Bernie will. His supporters won’t.

I think this is one of those times where the narrative writes the story.  It's a complete damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.  If Biden wins, nobody is going to talk about how great it was that Bernie supported him and that his supporters made a wise choice.  If he loses, they will point the finger at Bernie supporters whether there's real evidence or not.

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8 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

I’m not on any social media so can’t say - I do consistently hear that Bernie fans are horrible online but my thoughts has always been “how many damn people do you people follow??”

I will be very disappointed if Bernie doesn’t strongly endorse Biden and work to get him elected.

So these are the questions really.  Are they a vocal minority or a buttload pissed off?  Time will tell us.  Either way, I don't worry about Bernie.  He'll drag it out like last time, but will eventually get behind Biden.  It's the supporters that are of concern.

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55 minutes ago, The Commish said:

So these are the questions really.  Are they a vocal minority or a buttload pissed off?  Time will tell us.  Either way, I don't worry about Bernie.  He'll drag it out like last time, but will eventually get behind Biden.  It's the supporters that are of concern.

If his supporters want 4 more years of the Orange Haired Guy......then they will stay home and pout. If they want him out they get behind Biden even though they don’t want him.

Staying home is a vote for Trump. It is really that simple. And quite frankly.....his young legion of supporters may not vote anyway because they are busy doing gravity bong hits in their dorm rooms. I think his college student base get’s overstated on their influence on the election. 

I tend to think a vocal minority to answer the question. 

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2 minutes ago, Todem said:

If his supporters want 4 more years of the Orange Haired Guy......then they will stay home and pout. If they want him out they get behind Biden even though they don’t want him.

Staying home is a vote for Trump. It is really that simple. And quite frankly.....his young legion of supporters may not vote anyway because they are busy doing gravity bong hits in their dorm rooms. I think his college student base get’s overstated on their influence on the election. 

I tend to think a vocal minority to answer the question. 

Agree here...will be conducting experiments over the next few weeks to validate the hypothesis  

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11 hours ago, Ramsay Hunt Experience said:

Do they then compare the total cost of health care to today to show that private health care costs would decline more than public health care costs rise?

No. And it’s a very good argument, and it surprised me that Bernie didn’t make this argument until the last debate and Warren never made it at all. 

But that doesn’t affect what I wrote about the polling. 

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19 hours ago, msommer said:

Ia Warren really going to endorse Bernie after the whole "A woman can't win" debacle? How will that be split?

That was probably a wholesale fabrication by the Warren campaign, and no, she won’t.  She will endorse Biden or no one.  It’s clear what her role is at this point.  

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1 hour ago, Todem said:

If his supporters want 4 more years of the Orange Haired Guy......then they will stay home and pout. If they want him out they get behind Biden even though they don’t want him.

Staying home is a vote for Trump. It is really that simple. And quite frankly.....his young legion of supporters may not vote anyway because they are busy doing gravity bong hits in their dorm rooms. I think his college student base get’s overstated on their influence on the election. 

I tend to think a vocal minority to answer the question. 

You have to take a closer look at the numbers. Only about a third of the roughly 16 million college-aged eligible voters are actually in college. They're big Bernie supporters but turnout has historically been dismal for that age group. But there are about 80 million eligible voters under 40 and that bunch opposes Trump by a 2-1 margin. They came out at rates of 35-40% in 2018; if they hit 45% in November, Don is toast.

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What's going on with vote counting in California?  They wanted to be an important super Tuesday state but they've been as bad as Iowa.

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13 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Only about a third of the roughly 16 million college-aged eligible voters are actually in college

Is it only the college students of that age group that a re Bernie supporters? 

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11 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What's going on with vote counting in California?  They wanted to be an important super Tuesday state but they've been as bad as Iowa.

They have mail-in voting and I think as long as your ballot is postmarked by election day it gets counted.

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13 minutes ago, msommer said:

Is it only the college students of that age group that a re Bernie supporters? 

I doubt it. I would guess that the college students of that age support Bernie to a higher degree than their non-college-attending peers but I don't know that for sure.

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19 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

They have mail-in voting and I think as long as your ballot is postmarked by election day it gets counted.

I guess I have mixed feeling about that.  On the one hand, we want to make things easy for people to vote.  However, it's also seems important to have the results of elections released to the public as quickly as possible.  

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36 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What's going on with vote counting in California?  They wanted to be an important super Tuesday state but they've been as bad as Iowa.

You could mail in ballots as late as the election day. I thought I recalled reading they will have them all totaled up by the 6th, but I am not sure if that is accurate.

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