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Thoughts On Nancy Pelosi Ripping Up Speech? Hurt or Help? Over the Line? (1 Viewer)

Was Ripping Up The Speech "Over The Line"?

  • I'm Pro Trump and it was Over the Line.

    Votes: 24 16.3%
  • I'm Undecided and it was Over the Line

    Votes: 25 17.0%
  • I'm Anti Trump and it was Over the Line

    Votes: 43 29.3%
  • I'm Pro Trump it was NOT Over the Line

    Votes: 5 3.4%
  • I'm Undecided and it was NOT Over the Line

    Votes: 5 3.4%
  • I'm Anti Trump and it was NOT over the Line

    Votes: 45 30.6%

  • Total voters
    147

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
You've seen the video from from the State of the Union last night https://youtu.be/ppoElx09wFk

Two questions:

1. Did this hurt or help your side? I"m not asking here whether it was proper or not or over the line. That's the next question. 

2. Was it "over the line" for Pelosi to rip up the speech? And "over the line" is intentionally vague. You may be Pro Trump and think it helped Trump and it was over the line. You may be Anti Trump and think it was over the line and it hurt Trump. Or any combination of the two. 

 
I don't think it had any effect...

Over the line I guess...but barely.  I mean if that is the line it seems arbitrary and definitely tilted to hurt democrats more to call that over the line and excuse all other things.  It was so minimal of a thing.  So sure...over the line for how she should act.

 
I’m undecided in that I won’t decide if I’m voting for the Democrat till I see who the nominee is. Trump won’t get my vote. 

Pelosi’s actions hurt her party because by acting petulant, she’s giving the impression that her party is stooping to the level of Trump, and that could result in some undecideds not voting their way in November.  Not necessarily voting for Trump, but not voting at all. 

 
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Thanks @SaintsInDome2006 Can you elaborate on what you mean? What do you mean "again"?
Well I guess it’s come up in the impeachment thread and the Trump thread. And I heard it on the radio, saw it on tv. The emphasis is on the +|- of the politics. That’s just hot button stuff. - The problem is what we saw is a continued breakdown of norms & traditions in our democracy.

 
I don't think Nancy lost any votes over doing it.  I think she probably got vocal Anti-Trump people a bit excited about it.....so I think it's a plus.

I think there's a myth of "civility" in regards to our political leaders.  To that, I don't think it was overly over the line. 

 
This hurt..I'm not going to necessarily say "our side" but it hurt the progressive/liberal side of things.  Trump got in Pelosi's head this time around.  Just overall not a good look.  I get why she did it and Trump acted like a child as usual with no handshake but ripping it all up at the end just isn't a good look.

That said i think in a few weeks, this will be a distant memory though.  Seems to be what happens with Trump's miss-steps.

 
I can understand it, but I can't condone it.  It certainly doesn't help the Democrats IMO.  The only people an action like that will appeal to is those who are already anti-Trump.  It won't help with independents/undecideds.  Leave the childish tantrums to Trump.  The old adage about wrestling in the mud with a pig has never been more on point.  

 
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Well I guess it’s come up in the impeachment thread and the Trump thread. And I heard it on the radio, saw it on tv. The emphasis is on the +|- of the politics. That’s just hot button stuff. - The problem is what we saw is a continued breakdown of norms & traditions in our democracy.
I agree strongly with this.  There's nothing wrong with looking at the political aspect of this stunt, but it's way more important as an observable symptom of what is wrong with our society.

 
I went pro-trump with no effect and not over the line.  I think it reflects poorly on her and the rest of the party by association.  

I don't know if she can't help herself or is putting on show for her people.  

 
Not sure it will have any impact on anything but it sure was a bad look.  My wife loves Pelosi and was disgusted and said "She just acted like Trump would"  I don`t understand why a person of her age and experience would do that on camera.  It makes it look personal. 

 
Well I guess it’s come up in the impeachment thread and the Trump thread. And I heard it on the radio, saw it on tv. The emphasis is on the +|- of the politics. That’s just hot button stuff. - The problem is what we saw is a continued breakdown of norms & traditions in our democracy.
Sure. There are lots of effects things have. Some vague and some more specific. I'll often try to hone in on a more specific outcome like "hurt or help your candidate in the election" as it can be useful in different ways than an outcome of "hurting democracy". But those are obviously super real and important questions too. Feel free to set up a poll with those outcomes. I think that would be interesting too. 

 
I agree strongly with this.  There's nothing wrong with looking at the political aspect of this stunt, but it's way more important as an observable symptom of what is wrong with our society.
Thanks. Can you elaborate? Or that would make a great thread on it's own. 

 
I like it.  It's a sign that Dems are waking up to the current situation and no longer willing to play nice.  They need to get angry and combative and this is a step in the right direction.

There is no coming together that needs to be done.  The relationship is irreparable.  We need to rally the troops and defeat them at the ballot box.  It's anger and emotion that worked in 2016 and will work the same way for the Dems in 2020.  

 
Thanks. Can you elaborate? Or that would make a great thread on it's own. 
I think it's undeniable that we now live in a tribal society that literally celebrates treating members of the other tribe with open contempt.  Trump and his most visible supporters* were definitely the instigators here.  But it's now very prevalent across the political spectrum on social media, and it's infecting political leaders who are supposed to be better than that.  The Nancy Pelosi of 2007 wouldn't have thought to do something like this during a Bush speech.  When that one Republican congressman said "You lie" during an Obama SOTU, she rightly recognized that as over the line.  And now here we are.  

Every Thanksgiving, we see a bunch of articles about how to get along with your relatives over dinner.  As if it's totally normal that family get-togethers should be the equivalent of an Israeli-Palestinian summit.  These sorts of things don't seem like a big deal individually, but collectively they're a sign that something is broken in our society.

* I know you don't want us to paint Trump supporters with too broad a brush.  I'm not talking about the "holding my nose and voting for Trump" kind of person here.  I mean the enthusiastic MAGA-hat-wearing kind. 

 
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Anti Trump

No effect

over the line

she should have just thrown it away behind closed doors, no need for a public display. But at the end of the day who cares. Won’t change anything.

 
Nancy could have just given an TV interview and said something like "The President just go up there and continued all his lies", or something like that. Which would be the same old complaining about the reality of Trumps low character and incompetence.

Same old same old.

This made a statement of how Americans should view the Presidents speech. Sometimes visual aids help in teaching.

 
1. Did this hurt or help your side?
If your "side" is America, then it did nothing but hurt.

It was a highly visible confrontational act that formally drew battle lines between the two parties...it sent a message to the rest of the Democrats...who will now be more likely to counter with a far-left candidate to energize their base to the level the GOP is currently at...(vs. a less-sexy moderate that will be more likely to heal and bring the two parties together).

This will polarize the country even further. 

 
.  These sorts of things don't seem like a big deal individually, but collectively they're a sign that something is broken in our society.
We're in a full blown culture war.  You shouldn't expect civility in a war.  The high road only leads to Loser Town.  Whatever integrity they'd be trying to preserve doesn't amount to squat as they watch the other tribe dismantle the republic.

 
On one hand it's irrelevant. On the other hand it's stooping to Trump's level. On another hand no republican has any basis for criticizing the action. On another hand any liberal defending it is a hypocrite. On another hand it's over the line. On another hand it won't move the needle with anyone on either side. On another hand you could audibly hear the chorus of fist pumps from msm as it manufactured a story for this news cycle. On another hand it's not news. On another hand this will age poorly. Holy #### I have a lot of hands. 

 
No effect.  No one is going to change their vote over that.

It does, once again, show that one side can't point to Trump's behavior while supporting one of their own acting like a spoiled toddler.   

 
It doesn’t move the needle.  But it is over the line.

Dems have regularly asserted that Trump’s behavior is unacceptable and divisive.  Dems are now the party of the moral high ground.

Pelosi short changed the introduction as a political move.  She tore up the speech in a political move.  And whatever.  You do boo boo.  But stop telling me how Donald is tearing us apart when you’re literally tearing apart his speech on live tv.  You’re not bringing America together.  You’re not the better person.  You’re not crusading for justice.

 
He didn't shake Pence's hand either.  Everyone thought he was going to make a mockery of the impeachment trial and the Iowa Caucus.  He didn't.  He was better than that. He stuck to the script and said his speech.  It was the democrats, and especially Pelosi that were out of line.  They made a mockery of it.  

 
Nancy Pelosi being the face of the Democratic Party the last 10+ years has done more damage than anything in the history of the party.  It used to be a party I would vote for.  I voted for Clinton.  I voted for Obama 2nd term.   I also voted for Reagan.  And because of the Supreme Court and almost nothing else I voted for Trump.

 As long as Pelosi is in charge, I will NEVER vote Democrat again.  And I think this is reflective of a lot of quiet voters.  As much as Trump is unlikable, the country is doing fine.  But the Congress is incredibly terrible.  Both houses.

So did it change my vote - well it more or less confirmed that while I sit on the fence I don't want her to have any more power, and that's what a Dem President gives her.  Total control of our government.  Wouldn't want it for Schummer either.  It's too bad their few centrist candidates lack support from the party leaders.

My problem is she fights the wrong fight.  She is no different than Trump.  NONE.  It's about her just as much as he's about him.  This impeachment.  Ripping up the speech.  If the leader of the Dems would simply become above the fray and talk issues, I think people would listen.  As of now she's playing a social media game that she has no chance winning.

 
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I guess it depends on definition of "the line".....for me personally?  Yeah, over the line.  The line set by our politicians and their ardent supporters in a day and age where they willfully jump in the deep end of the "lesser of two evils" pool of crazy?  Na...well within that norm and that should give us all pause.  It's sad to see, but it is what it is.  

 
We're in a full blown culture war.  You shouldn't expect civility in a war.  The high road only leads to Loser Town.  Whatever integrity they'd be trying to preserve doesn't amount to squat as they watch the other tribe dismantle the republic.
This is literally exactly what I'm talking about.  The Trumpiest Trump supporter could have posted this word for word.

 
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I'm anti-trump, mostly voted R in my life but over the line.  Just gives ammunition to those that defend anything/everything Trump does, even though you could use the same response that they would use if he did something like that - she was just acting like a typical blue collar person...

 
We're in a full blown culture war.  You shouldn't expect civility in a war.  The high road only leads to Loser Town.  Whatever integrity they'd be trying to preserve doesn't amount to squat as they watch the other tribe dismantle the republic.
Nah. Go watch the tape of Klobuchar firmly and calmly embarrassing Kavanaugh during his confirmation hearings. That's how you gain power over a bully.

 
Nancy should have not invited Trump and had him submit the State of the Union in writing like they used to.

 
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I think it was childish and unbecoming of her and more so her position.  
 

It might provide some fluctuation positive or negative, depending on which side you’re looking at, in polling results for the next week or two, but it will have swayed no one in either direction when voting occurs.

 
Nah. Go watch the tape of Klobuchar firmly and calmly embarrassing Kavanaugh during his confirmation hearings. That's how you gain power over a bully.
Kavanaugh is a Supreme Court Justice and Trump just whistled his way to a second exoneration of using foreign help in an election.  That's power.  

 
Is there even a line anymore?  The line is a dot!
Obviously.  We could be shooting each other.

This was not normal even for today’s politics. Pelosi let Trump get in her head and manipulate her on a very public stage.  It was embarrassing for her personally and for the people she represents.  There is no way she wouldn’t take it back in a heartbeat if she could.  Unfortunately, she has to own it now.

 
Kavanaugh is a Supreme Court Justice and Trump just whistled his way to a second exoneration of using foreign help in an election.  That's power.  
Yeah it's so obvious the power play is installing judges. The Republican Senators have not voted on 100s of legislation setting before them but are installing Judges at a record pace. 

 
Yeah it's so obvious the power play is installing judges. The Republican Senators have not voted on 100s of legislation setting before them but are installing Judges at a record pace. 
But let's stand by and pat ourselves on the back for being the better person while they win the war.  Participation medals for everyone.  

 

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