Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Sign in to follow this  
JohnnyU

Lamb vs Jeudy, who you like?

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think 2 of them are gone by pick 12, and we could see 4-5 in Round 1.

Agree they both should be gone by pick 12.

I actually would go a step further and think we could see as any as 7 WR's in round 1, especially since almost all the teams from 20-32 could use a WR. The only team in that group where a WR would really surprise me would be the Vikings at 25, and maybe Seattle at 27.

I think this is the deepest and best WR class in several years, and is coming at a perfect time. Could see 15+ WR's going in the 1st 3 rounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Agree they both should be gone by pick 12.

I actually would go a step further and think we could see as any as 7 WR's in round 1, especially since almost all the teams from 20-32 could use a WR.

So hard to say right now but my guess at least one of Lamb or Jeudy is available at 12. I'd actually go with both being available before I'd say none.

And if I had to put number who go in round one I'd say 5, with 3 at most in top 20.

I think the depth of the class, combined with lack of success of first round WR's, will work to push them down a little in and out of round one. So I agree a lot of teams could use a WR, but I feel like a lot of those teams will feel like they can wait.

Just one man's opinion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, travdogg said:

The only team in that group where a WR would really surprise me would be the Vikings at 25

I think Diggs is actively making that less surprising by the minute

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t wait to see if Juedy or Lamb falls to me at 1.05. I’m sorta glad I won’t have to make a decision on which one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, grateful zed said:

so, what's the consensus?

Depends on who you talk to.  I said in the OP you can't go wrong with either. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gandalf said:

I can’t wait to see if Juedy or Lamb falls to me at 1.05. I’m sorta glad I won’t have to make a decision on which one. 

To early to say that but I think solid chance you still might need to make a decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 5:41 PM, Dr. Dan said:

I guess that's where we differ, and I understand I'm in a minority 

You shouldn't be in the minority

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, grateful zed said:

so, what's the consensus?

Consensus is that it's so close it's basically 50/50.  Some have a strong view one way or the other.  Other's will follow what someone else said, and get burned by it.  

 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Zyphros said:
16 hours ago, grateful zed said:

so, what's the consensus?

Consensus is that it's so close it's basically 50/50.  Some have a strong view one way or the other.  Other's will follow what someone else said, and get burned by it.  

I think this is an accurate summary. 

 

Personally, I have Lamb far ahead of Jeudy. I hope Jeudy continues to get the hype he has been getting. 

Good luck to everyone in their analysis this offseason 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do we view the level of competition both Jeudy and Lamb played against? Aren’t SEC defenses way better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gandalf said:

How do we view the level of competition both Jeudy and Lamb played against? Aren’t SEC defenses way better?

Yes, they are. PFF had an interesting article yesterday about all the receivers, but I think it's behind a paywall. Generally Jeudy ran routes all over the field, Lamb ran them from the left side of the alignment of the offense. Those were two things that jumped out at me. Today, they're doing Jeudy vs. Lamb behind the wall.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yes, they are. PFF had an interesting article yesterday about all the receivers, but I think it's behind a paywall. Generally Jeudy ran routes all over the field, Lamb ran them from the left side of the alignment of the offense. Those were two things that jumped out at me. Today, they're doing Jeudy vs. Lamb behind the wall.

Due to some of the schemes and defenses in PAC 12 and BIG 12 is anyone else worried about Lamb because of Corey Coleman?

Edited by JohnnyU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, doowain said:

c) other

who?  There's 4 players I like over both Lamb and Jeudy as well.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Zyphros said:
4 hours ago, doowain said:

c) other

who?  There's 4 players I like over both Lamb and Jeudy as well.  

I only have 1.  Maybe 2 once I dig in more.

As most of my league mates are on this site, I'll hold off for now.  Unless you want a PM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Zyphros said:

who?  There's 4 players I like over both Lamb and Jeudy as well.  

Reagor, Higgins, Shenault (pending medicals)

Edited by Dr. Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Due to some of the schemes and defenses in PAC 12 and BIG 12 is anyone else worried about Lamb because of Corey Coleman?

I don't really see the comparison. I wouldn't hold a conference, especially when its still a major conference, against a guy. Oklahoma plays plenty of good teams, and has had plenty of WR's find success in the NFL in recent years, including Hollywood Brown, Dede Westbrook, and Sterling Shepard, and Lamb is a better(probably much better) prospect than any of them were.

Full disclosure, I was a fan of Coleman's coming out. I think he fell into a triple whammy of being drafted by the worst HC in the NFL, on a team without a decent QB, and then immediately breaking his hand, and then re-breaking it again. Don't get me wrong, he was a bust, but he had an inordinate amount of bad luck in there too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coleman was also a head case idiot. 

Lamb and Jeudy are both studs.  They may both be early first round picks with good testing results.  I think I slightly prefer Lamb but both are great. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, travdogg said:

 

Full disclosure, I was a fan of Coleman's coming out. I think he fell into a triple whammy of being drafted by the worst HC in the NFL, on a team without a decent QB, and then immediately breaking his hand, and then re-breaking it again. Don't get me wrong, he was a bust, but he had an inordinate amount of bad luck in there too. 

There is another factor, a factor which leads IMO to a high bust rate and is almost impossible for those of us on the outside to ever factor into the equation and that is simply work ethic.  Not all young 20 year olds respond the same when you give them $10+M  guaranteed. Some want more, some lose drive and motivation.  I was actually wondering this the other day, thinking in terms of could that actually be some small reason so many WR's drafted in round two outperform those drafted in round 1? Probably not, and if so small, but first round WR's get a nice 4 year guaranteed contract and team controls them for year 5 while the second round guy gets paid usually barely over $1M a year if that and knows in year 5 he's an UFA.

Sorry to get off Juedy vs Lamb topic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, menobrown said:

There is another factor, a factor which leads IMO to a high bust rate and is almost impossible for those of us on the outside to ever factor into the equation and that is simply work ethic.  Not all young 20 year olds respond the same when you give them $10+M  guaranteed. Some want more, some lose drive and motivation.  I was actually wondering this the other day, thinking in terms of could that actually be some small reason so many WR's drafted in round two outperform those drafted in round 1? Probably not, and if so small, but first round WR's get a nice 4 year guaranteed contract and team controls them for year 5 while the second round guy gets paid usually barely over $1M a year if that and knows in year 5 he's an UFA.

Sorry to get off Juedy vs Lamb topic.

True, you can't measure heart. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeudy's route running, looking at PFF's article yesterday behind the paywall, was sick. One move was breathtaking.

I'm definitely in a Jeduy over Lamb camp. Whether that means I like him better than Sehnault, Reagor, or Higgins?

God, I can't help shake Higgins's hands, contested catches, high points, and aDOT in college. But he may be another Kevin White, which scares me.

Anyone run numbers on those two and say I'm missing that comparison badly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Jeudy's route running, looking at PFF's article yesterday behind the paywall, was sick. One move was breathtaking.

I'm definitely in a Jeduy over Lamb camp. Whether that means I like him better than Sehnault, Reagor, or Higgins?

God, I can't help shake Higgins's hands, contested catches, high points, and aDOT in college. But he may be another Kevin White, which scares me.

Anyone run numbers on those two and say I'm missing that comparison badly?

One big positive in Tee’s favor compared to White is his age. White was a 22 year old senior when he finally became a difference maker in college. Tee was a star at age 19 in his sophomore season. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

One big positive in Tee’s favor compared to White is his age. White was a 22 year old senior when he finally became a difference maker in college. Tee was a star at age 19 in his sophomore season. 

Ah, I see that. I see where you can get Higgins's breakout age, how about White?

eta* Ah, I see. Roto Underworld. 

Edited by rockaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, rockaction said:

Ah, I see that. I see where you can get Higgins's breakout age, how about White? 

Playerprofiler has it at 21.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Jeudy's route running, looking at PFF's article yesterday behind the paywall, was sick. One move was breathtaking.

I'm definitely in a Jeduy over Lamb camp. Whether that means I like him better than Sehnault, Reagor, or Higgins?

God, I can't help shake Higgins's hands, contested catches, high points, and aDOT in college. But he may be another Kevin White, which scares me.

Anyone run numbers on those two and say I'm missing that comparison badly?

I agree with everything you said except Higgins. He’s the real deal, he is talented and very well could possibly have a better NFL and fantasy career.

Tex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m greedy, I want Lamb, Jeudy and Higgins to be honest.

Tex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Word is the Cowboys are trying to move up in the draft and they want to make a huge splash. Personally I think they are after one of these players.

Tex

  • Like 1
  • Thinking 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BigTex said:

I agree with everything you said except Higgins. He’s the real deal, he is talented and very well could possibly have a better NFL and fantasy career.

Tex

Oh, I love Higgins. I don't want to talk too much about personal draft or trade strategy, but combine-pending, it might involve him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

True, you can't measure heart. 

Ummm actually you can. One problem is that it tends to vary over time depending on situation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, rockaction said:

Oh, I love Higgins. I don't want to talk too much about personal draft or trade strategy, but combine-pending, it might involve him. 

He didn't look very good in the championship game, but that's just one game.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

He didn't look very good in the championship game, but that's just one game.

Unfortunately, for me, that is what sticks out the most about him. Like you said, he just didn’t look like anything of note in that game. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Didn't Higgings get dinged up early-ish in the Championship game?

Yes, he got dinged,  but when he returned he had some drops and didn't look good at all.  Not sure if injury was causing it or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tee did end the year on a rough note. He was banged up in the NC game and had a matchup against a 5 star NFL CB prospect in Okudah the week before. However, if we look at the whole profile, it is easy to see IMO why he's a really good NFL prospect. Metric wise, he crushes breakout age (doing so for a historically talented Clemson team) and had solid relative production. He is young, has great NFL size at 6'4" 215. In film, he looks to have some speed and he definitely is a vertical contested catch monster. We will see how he tests, but there looks to be a lot of AJ Green adjacent skills with him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2020 at 10:08 AM, rockaction said:

Yes, they are. PFF had an interesting article yesterday about all the receivers, but I think it's behind a paywall. Generally Jeudy ran routes all over the field, Lamb ran them from the left side of the alignment of the offense. Those were two things that jumped out at me. Today, they're doing Jeudy vs. Lamb behind the wall.

This doesn't seem right considering I can find quotes of articles by pff saying that Lamb ran a very diverse route tree.

Quote

According to Pro Football Focus, Lamb's 62 receptions for 1,327 yards and 14 touchdowns in 2019 were very diverse. He ran just about every route on the tree and had only five dropped balls. Of his receiving yards, 401 came on deep balls, and 311 yards came from the slot.

If all of this was was from the left side of the formation how hard could it be to run the same set of diverse routes from the other side of the field?

What was the time frame that they were talking about in the article you read? Was it just part of the 2019 season? All of 2019? All of Lambs career?

It would not surprise me if the author may have bent the data to meet that narrative.

I don't believe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

This doesn't seem right considering I can find quotes of articles by pff saying that Lamb ran a very diverse route tree.

If all of this was was from the left side of the formation how hard could it be to run the same set of diverse routes from the other side of the field?

What was the time frame that they were talking about in the article you read? Was it just part of the 2019 season? All of 2019? All of Lambs career?

It would not surprise me if the author may have bent the data to meet that narrative.

I don't believe it.

It was a heat graph of all targets and routes run, IIRC. I'm at dinner. I'll find the link for Edge Subscribers.

Edited by rockaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at this highlight reel. Over half of the big plays in the first two minutes are on the right side of the field.

My guess is whoever said that is trying to tank Lambs value or they are just really wrong, which is sad when they have access to so much information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2020 at 12:13 PM, menobrown said:

There is another factor, a factor which leads IMO to a high bust rate and is almost impossible for those of us on the outside to ever factor into the equation and that is simply work ethic.  Not all young 20 year olds respond the same when you give them $10+M  guaranteed. Some want more, some lose drive and motivation.  I was actually wondering this the other day, thinking in terms of could that actually be some small reason so many WR's drafted in round two outperform those drafted in round 1? Probably not, and if so small, but first round WR's get a nice 4 year guaranteed contract and team controls them for year 5 while the second round guy gets paid usually barely over $1M a year if that and knows in year 5 he's an UFA.

Sorry to get off Juedy vs Lamb topic.

I think there is something to this.

The WR who don't get drafted in the 1st round can have a chip on their shoulder because of that, and realize they have to show out to earn a starting spot on their team. A 1st rounder can rest on that achievement somewhat because the team is so commuted to them, they will get lots of chances to prove they belong.

I don't think it is just a recent phenomena either. Seems like it has happened quite a few times in NFL history. I don't think it is all just the teams getting this very important decision wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Look at this highlight reel. Over half of the big plays in the first two minutes are on the right side of the field.

My guess is whoever said that is trying to tank Lambs value or they are just really wrong, which is sad when they have access to so much information.

Ceedee Lamb, Oklahoma

Ceedee Lamb’s role within the Oklahoma offense was an outside receiver who lined up almost exclusively at the left side of the field. From that alignment, he mostly ran go and post routes (34% of the time), hitches and comebacks (20% of the time) or prepared himself to catch a bubble screen (10% of the time). He ran 46% of his routes deeper than 15 yards and had an average depth of target of 14 yards. This would project him as an outside receiver who can attack downfield all over the map (provided he lines up at both sides) but also one who can also be used as a weapon with the ball in his hands on screen passes or jet motion. - PFF

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-finding-nfl-comps-for-wr-prospects-through-wr-clustering

Edited by rockaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, when I post something, I'm really going on the source's word for it. It's pretty clear from both the wording of "lined up almost exclusively at the left side of the field" and the heat graph that accompanies it, that they're thinking this to be the case. I trust PFF, but they could indeed be very wrong here. I apologize -- I'm just trying to bring sourced material to the fore here. If they prove themselves inaccurate, the best thing to hope for is to catch it like you seem to have.

Thanks. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

By the way, when I post something, I'm really going on the source's word for it. It's pretty clear from both the wording of "lined up almost exclusively at the left side of the field" and the heat graph that accompanies it, that they're thinking this to be the case. I trust PFF, but they could indeed be very wrong here. I apologize -- I'm just trying to bring sourced material to the fore here. If they prove themselves inaccurate, the best thing to hope for is to catch it like you seem to have.

Thanks. 

no need to apologize. This kind of stuff is good for discussion

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah the phrase almost exclusively is a oxymoron.

The heat map on the left shows he lined up on the left more than the right.

The heat map on the right shows he was targeted in the middle of the field more than anywhere else.

The author is also talking about 2019 exclusively. Lamb had two other good seasons that seems important to consider as well I think.

He has the data, why not just say exactly what percentage of the routes in 2019 were from the left side instead of leaving the reader to wonder from vague data in the heat maps? 

Edited by Biabreakable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

 

The author is also talking about 2019 exclusively. Lamb had two other good seasons that seems important to consider as well I think.

This is a good point. QB play in 2019 was far different as well. That may be a factor. Perhaps Hurts cant throw very well to his right so they lined up Lamb more on the left to get him the ball. Who knows but that's a logical explanation 

Edited by Dr. Dan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know Lamb's true measurements.  I've seen both 6'2" and 6'2.5", and weights from 189 to 195.  When you see him play, he doesn't look like a beanpole.  Let's see how he measures up at the combine.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, TheWinz said:

I don't know Lamb's true measurements.  I've seen both 6'2" and 6'2.5", and weights from 189 to 195.  When you see him play, he doesn't look like a beanpole.  Let's see how he measures up at the combine.  

The combine will be pretty important for him given how strong this WR class is. If he comes in light and runs slow, he could get jumped by a couple WRs IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

The combine will be pretty important for him given how strong this WR class is. If he comes in light and runs slow, he could get jumped by a couple WRs IMO.

Yes, me too. I'm looking for 200 from Lamb. 

Right now Lamb is a contender for my wr1, but I have some significant questions that the combine will answer. Then the draft may matter some

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Dr. Dan said:

Yes, me too. I'm looking for 200 from Lamb. 

Right now Lamb is a contender for my wr1, but I have some significant questions that the combine will answer. Then the draft may matter some

Yep- on the field, he was the best WR I saw last year but if he 6'2" 195 and runs a 4.58, I will be concerned. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2020 at 1:13 PM, menobrown said:

I was actually wondering this the other day, thinking in terms of could that actually be some small reason so many WR's drafted in round two outperform those drafted in round 1?

How many?  And what are the qualifications on this statement?
Are you saying that Round 2 WRs frequently outperform the guy who was drafted at WR1, or that they frequently outperform some of the guys drafted in the 1st round?

And frankly, what's the true difference between a WR drafted somewhere in the 2nd round and one of the WRs drafted later in the 1st round?  Or anywhere in the 1st round?

Edited by tangfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.