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Skoo

Are we already living in a dictatorship?

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Of course we aren't. It is a dumb question. Would a dictator have to battle it out in court to be able to enforce existing law? Nope.

If anybody has too much power in this country it is judges. The variance from day to day and judge to judge is absurd. 

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17 minutes ago, zftcg said:

What's more, Trump (in the form of a DoD review did have the opportunity to review Ukraine's performance regarding corruption. DoD had certified that they were making progress and that the aid should move forward. Trump not only held back the aid, he refused to publicly admit what he was doing. The whole "investigating corruption" rationale only came about after he got caught.

What you left out is that he should also have a process in place. That's what gives the public confidence that impartial justice is being done, and that the president is not simply seeking to punish his enemies. (And no, "talk to Rudy" is not, in fact, a process.)

The phone call with Zelensky in July makes it clear that he was talking about public corruption.  He talks about the specifics of the case.  Talking to Rudy is fine.  People are allowed to talk to each other and share information...we are not such a dictatorship yet where some people are not allowed to have a conversation with other people. 
Trump was certainly within his rights to take some time to do his due diligence regarding the DoD assessment and to reconcile that assessment with information from other sources.

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Just now, Sam Quentin said:

One more point, if Hunter Biden was irrelevant, then why are D voters walking away in droves from Biden?

 

Probably because Biden is Hillary 2.0

Gotta remember, us democrats don't buy any of the Hunter Biden conspiracy theory stuff.

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18 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Of course we aren't. It is a dumb question. Would a dictator have to battle it out in court to be able to enforce existing law? Nope.

If anybody has too much power in this country it is judges. The variance from day to day and judge to judge is absurd. 

The kids in their 20s that Trump and GOP Senators are hustling through to give lifetime appointments to have too much power?

Okay, the typo that made it "20s" rather than "30s" makes this a bit hyperbolic, but I think I'll leave it despite catching it before hitting send assuming its presence was some form of divine inspiration.  

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9 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

One more point, if Hunter Biden was irrelevant, then why are D voters walking away in droves from Biden?

 

You're focusing on the wrong thing. The bigger question is whether the "investigation" of Hunter Biden is continued (or even initiated in the first place) once Joe drops out. If it doesn't, then it puts a major part of Donald's defense to a lie.

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

You're focusing on the wrong thing. The bigger question is whether the "investigation" of Hunter Biden is continued (or even initiated in the first place) once Joe drops out. If it doesn't, then it puts a major part of Donald's defense to a lie.

I am confident that the investigation will continue into Trump’s second term.

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16 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

The phone call with Zelensky in July makes it clear that he was talking about public corruption.  He talks about the specifics of the case.  Talking to Rudy is fine.  People are allowed to talk to each other and share information...we are not such a dictatorship yet where some people are not allowed to have a conversation with other people. 
Trump was certainly within his rights to take some time to do his due diligence regarding the DoD assessment and to reconcile that assessment with information from other sources.

Nah, it doesn't.  He never mentions "public corruption", or corruption at all for that matter.  He just harps on Crowdstrike and the Bidens, and talks about needing the favor of investigating them.  He also dumps effusive praise on the guy who pretty much everyone agreed was corrupt while throwing our own ambassador under the bus.  This was Trump trying to make Ukraine do Trump's bidding (by way of his personal attorney and aided by his currently indicted henchmen).  

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3 hours ago, Max Power said:

I'm more saying that if 2/3 of population make it known to their senators that they support removal, I'd hope the Senate would strongly consider that when voting.  

Most Americans wanted evidence in the Senate Trial

Quote

The poll showed that Republicans and Democrats want to see people like Bolton and Pompeo tell the Senate what they know about the administration’s policies in Ukraine.

About 72% agreed that the trial “should allow witnesses with firsthand knowledge of the impeachment charges to testify,” including 84% of Democrats and 69% of Republicans. And 70% of the public, including 80% of Democrats and 73% of Republicans, said senators should “act as impartial jurors” during the trial.

 

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29 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

One more point, if Hunter Biden was irrelevant, then why are D voters walking away in droves from Biden?

 

Irrelevant to the impeachment inquiry and trial.  Also Biden has sucked for a while.  But the appearances of impropriety are what Trump wanted...which is why he released aid without any actual investigation by anyone.  Obviously he wasn't too concerned with corruption with Hunter Biden since he released the aid once it was known. 

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29 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

The kids in their 20s that Trump and GOP Senators are hustling through to give lifetime appointments to have too much power?

Okay, the typo that made it "20s" rather than "30s" makes this a bit hyperbolic, but I think I'll leave it despite catching it before hitting send assuming its presence was some form of divine inspiration.  

Yes.

It will be a really popular opinion starting in january of 2021. 

I have no doubt the media will focus a great deal on judicial overreach then. 

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

Yes.

It will be a really popular opinion starting in january of 2021. 

I have no doubt the media will focus a great deal on judicial overreach then. 

When all of these appointments throw out the 2020 election results and ultimately assert that Trump can remain the president?  Yeah that would be a big story and popular opinion.

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6 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Irrelevant to the impeachment inquiry and trial.  Also Biden has sucked for a while.  But the appearances of impropriety are what Trump wanted...which is why he released aid without any actual investigation by anyone.  Obviously he wasn't too concerned with corruption with Hunter Biden since he released the aid once it was known. 

Biden publicly admitted to QPQ in 2018.... It was already a ready-made campaign ad...

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Just now, Sam Quentin said:

Biden publicly admitted to QPQ in 2018.... It was already a ready-made campaign ad...

Ahh we are back yo claiming its the same?  Biden presented bipartisan approved US policy in line with our allies.  Not meant to investigate and hurt a political opponent.

 

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43 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

One more point, if Hunter Biden was irrelevant, then why are D voters walking away in droves from Biden?

 

Because the smear campaign worked?

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4 hours ago, moleculo said:

If the senate is controlled by the same party as the executive, and if the majority party of the senate is not willing to use checks and balances, there effectively are no checks and balances. 

An unchecked executive branch is a defacto dictator, so I would have to say we are in a dictatorship.

Now, that term is a bit loaded.  Dictatorship can cover a broad range of styles, from full oppression to benevolence.  When I argue we are in a dictatorship, I don't mean executive for lifetime, rip up the constitution, elections are shams, imprison political enemies and all of that - we aren't there.  But, we clearly have a president who can bend the law to his will, skirt traditional norms, punish political enemies, and push his agenda without bipartisan support.  It's a soft dictatorship.

 

3 hours ago, song said:

no not a dictatorship.

no not a democracy.

we are encouraged to believe in what appears to be a democracy like children are with santa claus, and it is apparently working very well.

if push comes to shove (unlikely, but becoming ever more so), this will become somewhat more obvious to those paying attention.

power is held in many places, mainly centered around money/greed.

unorganized, unmotivated individuals (like myself) have very little power.

i have no links.

i have eyes and ears and an awareness that's been processing what i see and hear for a good while now.

my two cents.  i know i sound paranoid/ crazy.

oh well.

 

 

I agree with both of these posts.   It seems to me there are some who think the POTUS would announce "okay, we're a dictatorship now!" as a defense.

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5 hours ago, Skoo said:

How so?

With a GOP-controlled Senate, what power does Congress have?

GOP controlled is still power that isn't Trump's to wield 

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10 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

When all of these appointments throw out the 2020 election results and ultimately assert that Trump can remain the president?  Yeah that would be a big story and popular opinion.

Oke doke quixote. 

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10 minutes ago, Sam Quentin said:

Biden publicly admitted to QPQ in 2018.... It was already a ready-made campaign ad...

This is like Whack-a-Mole

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14 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

GOP controlled is still power that isn't Trump's to wield 

If the Senate was 100% controlled by Trump, it wouldn't look any different than it does today.

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42 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Irrelevant to the impeachment inquiry and trial.  Also Biden has sucked for a while.  But the appearances of impropriety are what Trump wanted...which is why he released aid without any actual investigation by anyone.  Obviously he wasn't too concerned with corruption with Hunter Biden since he released the aid once it was known. 

Actually, that's not true. It wasn't irrelevant to the impeachment inquiry. It was the exact same thing he was being impeached for. Trump was impeached for trying to use the power of his office to smear his potential opponent. He then attempted to use the impeachment trial to further perpetuate that smear.

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1 hour ago, Sam Quentin said:

One more point, if Hunter Biden was irrelevant, then why are D voters walking away in droves from Biden?

 

Im not confident D voters actually liked him.  I never did.

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For thise still wanting Hunter Biden...seriously, what would the questioning be?  
Are you corrupt?

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9 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

For thise still wanting Hunter Biden...seriously, what would the questioning be?  
Are you corrupt?

I have it on good authority that questioning like this can be very effective at getting 100% factual statements and even uncover things from when he was 15. 

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25 minutes ago, JAA said:

Im not confident D voters actually liked him.  I never did.

Trump got impeached trying to stop Joe Biden, the guy who's now run for president 3 times and has never won a presidential primary....there isn't enough lols over that genius move.

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You lost.  It’s not the end of the world.  Pull yourselves together already.

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10 minutes ago, jonessed said:

You lost.  It’s not the end of the world.  Pull yourselves together already.

I always get a good laugh when threads like this are allowed in here. :lmao:

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8 hours ago, Skoo said:

How so?

With a GOP-controlled Senate, what power does Congress have?

This is ridiculous. Were you complaining about Congress when Obama and the Democrats had a super majority?  Or when Obama was president and they controlled the house? One half of Congress? And almost all of the judicial?

 

 

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3 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Of course we aren't. It is a dumb question. Would a dictator have to battle it out in court to be able to enforce existing law? Nope.

How many times has Trump done or tried to do dictator-like things? (Used the DOJ to harass his enemies or protect his allies; withhold foreign aid mandated by Congress; bullied the media, calling them the enemy of the people; politicized the civil service and other domestic security agencies; used state regulatory powers to punish enemies like Jeff Bezos via Amazon or Ted Turner via Time-Warner; personally enrich himself through state activities; disregard the rule of law by ignoring subpoenas; pardon his friends; appoint family members to positions of power; seek to hold a military parade; constantly spread false propaganda...)

How many of those times was he thwarted by the courts?

I think it's a fairly small percentage, and thus not a great example of why he's not a dictator.

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2 hours ago, moleculo said:

If the Senate was 100% controlled by Trump, it wouldn't look any different than it does today.

I don't think Trump control's GOP anymore so - and probably LESS - that Obama controlled the DNC

They do want their own as POTUS to sign / approve of course, partisan politics 

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40 minutes ago, jonessed said:

You lost.  It’s not the end of the world.  Pull yourselves together already.

It’s been four years and they still have not managed it....they still chase every far flung conspiracy...every demented reading of facts...they have been granted every investigative tool at the disposal of the Federal government for some odd reason and still come up empty-handed trying to push one convoluted legal theory after another and when they lose, despite all of the advantages granted they and Their unwillingness to cede even an inch they complain that it’s rigged against them.....

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45 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

How many times has Trump done or tried to do dictator-like things? (Used the DOJ to harass his enemies or protect his allies; withhold foreign aid mandated by Congress; bullied the media, calling them the enemy of the people; politicized the civil service and other domestic security agencies; used state regulatory powers to punish enemies like Jeff Bezos via Amazon or Ted Turner via Time-Warner; personally enrich himself through state activities; disregard the rule of law by ignoring subpoenas; pardon his friends; appoint family members to positions of power; seek to hold a military parade; constantly spread false propaganda...)

How many of those times was he thwarted by the courts?

I think it's a fairly small percentage, and thus not a great example of why he's not a dictator.

I think using things he has tried to do is not a great argument for why america is a dictatorship. 

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26 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I think using things he has tried to do is not a great argument for why america is a dictatorship. 

Well, yeah, that's a good point.

But everything I listed is something he actually did, with the sole exception (so far) of having a military parade.

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He hasn't gone full dictator yet.

He's dictator-curious.

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Just now, adonis said:

He hasn't gone full dictator yet.

He's dictator-curious.

EVERY president is dictator-curious.

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14 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

EVERY president is dictator-curious.

Some just fantasize...others dabble.

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1 hour ago, jonessed said:

You lost.  It’s not the end of the world.  Pull yourselves together already.

And to think we haven’t even hit peak PSF yet with 9 months until the election.

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7 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Irrelevant to the impeachment inquiry and trial.  Also Biden has sucked for a while.  But the appearances of impropriety are what Trump wanted...which is why he released aid without any actual investigation by anyone.  Obviously he wasn't too concerned with corruption with Hunter Biden since he released the aid once it was known. 

For a while?  Biden gave up the #1 spot in polling on February 8th. 

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4 minutes ago, tonydead said:

For a while?  Biden gave up the #1 spot in polling on February 8th. 

I don't believe i mentioned polling.  You could see public sentiment and that of the board here for a while.

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3 hours ago, adonis said:

Some just fantasize...others dabble.

This one time at grand Camp, David... 

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23 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

I don't believe i mentioned polling.  You could see public sentiment and that of the board here for a while.

Oh, you're talking inside the bubble instead of reality.  Got it, carry on. 

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9 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Oh, you're talking inside the bubble instead of reality.  Got it, carry on. 

No. Im talking reality. 
 

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17 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Of course we aren't. It is a dumb question. Would a dictator have to battle it out in court to be able to enforce existing law? Nope.

If anybody has too much power in this country it is judges. The variance from day to day and judge to judge is absurd. 

Sure but there’s almost always a higher judge that can review and potentially overrule the other judge. There are so many judges which makes any one judge (outside of the SC) not that influential or powerful- certainly not at all on the same level as the President. The fact that the judges act differently judge to judge just makes that even more true. 

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15 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

This is ridiculous. Were you complaining about Congress when Obama and the Democrats had a super majority?  Or when Obama was president and they controlled the house? One half of Congress? And almost all of the judicial?

Well I certainly wasn't complaining when the Democrats let Obama off of impeachment without so much as even having witnesses at the "trial".

Because, you know, he was never impeached.

Seems like you're misinterpreting the thread.

It's not about one party controlling congress and the Presidency, it's that congress (the Senate in this case) has completely ceded any oversight of the President.

We're supposed to have checks and balances within our 3 branches of government.

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11 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Well I certainly wasn't complaining when the Democrats let Obama off of impeachment without so much as even having witnesses at the "trial".

Because, you know, he was never impeached.

Seems like you're misinterpreting the thread.

It's not about one party controlling congress and the Presidency, it's that congress (the Senate in this case) has completely ceded any oversight of the President.

We're supposed to have checks and balances within our 3 branches of government.

We still need to get rid of sharia law like every conservative source said he would institute in 2008.  Every talking head warned about it every day. Some acted as if it was the biggest threat to the country since the war of 1812. Fear mongers, all of them. 

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10 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Well I certainly wasn't complaining when the Democrats let Obama off of impeachment without so much as even having witnesses at the "trial".

Because, you know, he was never impeached.

Seems like you're misinterpreting the thread.

It's not about one party controlling congress and the Presidency, it's that congress (the Senate in this case) has completely ceded any oversight of the President.

We're supposed to have checks and balances within our 3 branches of government.

The lack of removal does not indicate there is no oversight.  All the checks and balances are still in place.  We have a judiciary who have ruled against the Trump administration nearly 100 times (it was 70 as of last April) and stopped or put on hold his actions.  We have a Congress which has refused to fund his biggest campaign promise, his wall.  Congress has been investigating and fighting the executive branch the entire time of his presidency.  How many in the Trump administration have been fired or forced to resign or even worse indicted?  Tons of Trump policies have never become law.  We have an election coming up and even if he somehow wins, he only has 4 more years of power left, period.  This is like the exact opposite of a dictator.  

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7 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

We still need to get rid of sharia law like every conservative source said he would institute in 2008.  Every talking head warned about it every day. Some acted as if it was the biggest threat to the country since the war of 1812. Fear mongers, all of them. 

No ridiculous hyperbole here....:rolleyes:

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