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Skoo

Are we already living in a dictatorship?

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I'd say that while we're not living in a dictatorship, I feel like my ability to speak without some sort of dossier on me is truly diminished and has been since the Patriot Act and NSA activities. I'd say this goes beyond Trump and into how much power we want the state to have. 

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Because Stalin was so much better!

Wow for Mao, give me a whole lot of Pol Pot and go bananas for de Santa Anna! 

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19 hours ago, parrot said:

The Trumpers made a lot of noise about no one testifying about hearing of the quid-pro-quo directly from Trump.  So that lack of first-hand testimony was what many of them were hanging their "plausible deniability" hat on.  Bolton might have destroyed that position for them.  Of course they were always going to acquit, but it would have been nice to see them at least go through the motions of having an actual trial instead of engaging in a blatant cover-up.  

Not a Trumper.  Blatant stonewalling in reaction to blatant partisan attacks.  Seems about right to me.

Assinine behavior in response to assinine behavior.  :shrug:

Edited by matuski
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11 minutes ago, matuski said:

Not a Trumper.  Blatant stonewalling in reaction to blatant partisan attacks.  Seems about right to me.

Assinine behavior in response to assinine behavior.  :shrug:

It's amusing how they selectively forget the the first part of it. 

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53 minutes ago, matuski said:

Not a Trumper.  Blatant stonewalling in reaction to blatant partisan attacks.  Seems about right to me.

Assinine behavior in response to assinine behavior.  :shrug:

Get back to us when Joe Biden drops out of the race and the Hunter investigation quietly fades away.

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1 hour ago, matuski said:

Not a Trumper.  Blatant stonewalling in reaction to blatant partisan attacks.  Seems about right to me.

Assinine behavior in response to assinine behavior.  :shrug:

If it's nothing but a "blatant partisan attack", what is there to stonewall?  Why not get it all out in the open and expose it as such?  GOP Senators didn't want to hear from Bolton because they knew he might well take away their last flimsy excuse for  the "drug deal", as it was described by a life-long republican and adviser to the president - huge partisan there.  

Edited by parrot

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1 hour ago, GoBirds said:

It's amusing how they selectively forget the the first part of it. 

Didn't forget anything.  Saw the call memo where the president clearly used the threat of withholding hundreds of millions in foreign aid to extort personal political favors.  Also heard a number of very forthright people explain how this was not standard operating procedure by any means and how they felt something nefarious was obviously occurring.  Also saw Trump praise a foreign prosecutor widely considered to be corrupt and attack his own ambassador.  The whole thing was revolting coming from a U.S. president. So yeah, I didn't forget anything.  Great contribution though.  

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1 hour ago, roadkill1292 said:

Get back to us when Joe Biden drops out of the race and the Hunter investigation quietly fades away.

Exactly.. partisan attack garbage.  Perfect analogy.

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43 minutes ago, parrot said:

If it's nothing but a "blatant partisan attack", what is there to stonewall?  Why not get it all out in the open and expose it as such?  

:lmao:

Unbelievable how the left so perfectly mirrors the right.

Why not just produce the birth certificate? If he has nothing to hide why not get it out in the open and expose it as such?

I mean you can't make this stuff up.

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

:lmao:

Unbelievable how the left so perfectly mirrors the right.

Why not just produce the birth certificate? If he has nothing to hide why not get it out in the open and expose it as such?

I mean you can't make this stuff up.

You see parity between someone testifying under oath about firsthand experience relevant to an impeachment trial and...

A completely unsubstantiated claim that a candidate wasn't a US citizen?

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4 minutes ago, matuski said:

:lmao:

Unbelievable how the left so perfectly mirrors the right.

Why not just produce the birth certificate? If he has nothing to hide why not get it out in the open and expose it as such?

I mean you can't make this stuff up.

Can you remind of the members of Obama's own cabinet having issues with this birth certificate?  You're really comparing something that was backed up by official documents - even though there were efforts to obstruct most of them - and under-oath testimony from a number of long-time public servants with squeaky-clean records, to birtherism?  That's your play?  Never mind.  I thought you were maybe serious about discussing this but now I can see you aren't.  

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1 hour ago, adonis said:

You see parity between someone testifying under oath about firsthand experience relevant to an impeachment trial and...

A completely unsubstantiated claim that a candidate wasn't a US citizen?

And again.

It isn't the topic.  It is the logic.  Not what you are arguing, but the argument you are making.

Mirror image.

@parrot just parroted the birther logic.

Edited by matuski
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9 minutes ago, adonis said:

You see parity between someone testifying under oath about firsthand experience relevant to an impeachment trial and...

A completely unsubstantiated claim that a candidate wasn't a US citizen?

The only people trying to convince us of "both sides" are people who are gearing up to vote for Donald Trump.

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1 minute ago, roadkill1292 said:

The only people trying to convince us of "both sides" are people who are gearing up to vote for Donald Trump.

There are like what maybe 25-30 regulars in the PSF?  Nobody is going to convince or change anyone's minds here on anything.

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Just now, roadkill1292 said:

The only people trying to convince us of "both sides" are people who are gearing up to vote for Donald Trump.

Oh no, I am certainly not on Trump's side.  This is about the 100000th effort to dismiss me through that tactic though, so points for originality.

The "both sides" is how you act, how you play the game.  In that post's case using almost the EXACT words.  :lol:

The left feigns to be above it all, intellectual superiority.... and then you see them tripping over themselves the same way the right did with Obama.  

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

And again.

It isn't the topic.  It is the logic.

Mirror image.

@parrot just parroted the birther logic.

Oh please.  Again, this was an IMPEACHMENT with claims that would have been met with every type of forceful defense possible if those defenses were available and remotely convincing.  They would have loved nothing more than to expose it for a farce.  Instead it was a cover-up.  

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Just now, matuski said:

Oh no, I am certainly not on Trump's side. 

Having said this.. if one of these nutcases on the left gets nominated, indeed I may vote for Trump.  Biden/Klobuchar and I'm in to vote Dem.  If I see AOC on a ticket, #### no.

Not sure what that has to do with the point made though.

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Just now, parrot said:

Oh please.  Again, this was an IMPEACHMENT with claims that would have been met with every type of forceful defense possible if those defenses were available and remotely convincing.  They would have loved nothing more than to expose it for a farce.  Instead it was a cover-up.  

Seriously go read the birther thread.. this is the same exact mental gymnastics played.

I mean it is like you have their playbook.

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Just now, matuski said:

Seriously go read the birther thread.. this is the same exact mental gymnastics played.

I mean it is like you have their playbook.

Was there a birtherism trial?  I guess I missed that.  

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11 minutes ago, matuski said:

And again.

It isn't the topic.  It is the logic.

Mirror image.

@parrot just parroted the birther logic.

One is a legitimate accusation that requires an answer, and the other isn't.

Bolton was to be part of a trial, with evidence, sworn testimony, and legal context.

Birtherism was a conspiracy theory championed by Trump without any evidence.

One should require a response, the other should be ignored by decent people who know better.

 

 

Edited by adonis
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6 minutes ago, matuski said:

Seriously go read the birther thread.. this is the same exact mental gymnastics played.

I mean it is like you have their playbook.

You're wasting everyone's time with this constant refrain.

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20 minutes ago, parrot said:

Was there a birtherism trial?  I guess I missed that.  

No.  Why would there have been a birther trial?

And what does that have to do with you using the same logic against trump?

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17 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

You're wasting everyone's time with this constant refrain.

Hey man, thanks.

The political forum is certainly a shining beacon of how to be productive with our time.

Happy to help.

Edited by matuski

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21 minutes ago, adonis said:

One is a legitimate accusation that requires an answer, and the other isn't.

 

It certainly seemed birthers felt they had a legitimate case as well.

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Obama played the right with a subtle and nuanced game when the partisan attacks came.

Trump is playing the left with a juvenile and brash game when the partisan attacks come.

Same game, different strategies, same results.

Edited by matuski

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Just now, matuski said:

No.  Why would there have been a birther trial?

And what does that have to do with you using the same logic against trump?

Don't call your illogic my logic, thanks.  The logic is that Impeachment proceedings in one of the highest chambers of the land calls for a different level of response than a conspiracy theory being forwarded by losers on the internet.  The entire country's attention was on the Senate.  The GOP would have liked nothing more than to use that exposure to fire a broad-side into the side of the Democratic party.  Instead they called no new witnesses and presented no new documents and swept it under the rug as quickly as they could.  No defense was mounted because no defense was available and they knew anything they tried was only going to back-fire.  

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3 minutes ago, parrot said:

Don't call your illogic my logic, thanks.  The logic is that Impeachment proceedings in one of the highest chambers of the land calls for a different level of response than a conspiracy theory being forwarded by losers on the internet.  The entire country's attention was on the Senate.  The GOP would have liked nothing more than to use that exposure to fire a broad-side into the side of the Democratic party.  Instead they called no new witnesses and presented no new documents and swept it under the rug as quickly as they could.  No defense was mounted because no defense was available and they knew anything they tried was only going to back-fire.  

Obama did not release his BC for the same reason the Trump/GOP is reveling in stonewalling.  It is driving you insane and making you act like it.  Same logic, different method.

 

Obama won so much like this, Trump is winning so much like this.

 

Edited by matuski

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9 minutes ago, matuski said:

Hey man, thanks.

The political forum is certainly a shining beacon of how to be productive with our time.

Happy to help.

Not only are you wasting everyone's time but, in the end, you're going to vote for Donald J. Trump. We all know it. All these posts are intended to convince a few people that it's ok to do that.

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56 minutes ago, matuski said:

Why not just produce the birth certificate? If he has nothing to hide why not get it out in the open and expose it as such?

Isn’t that exactly what Obama did? It was ridiculous that he had to, but it seemed to work. Even shut Trump up (for awhile, at least)

Edited by zftcg
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1 minute ago, roadkill1292 said:

Not only are you wasting everyone's time but, in the end, you're going to vote for Donald J. Trump. We all know it. All these posts are intended to convince a few people that it's ok to do that.

I didn't vote for him last time, and I certainly have no intent to do so this time.

These posts are weird.

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1 minute ago, zftcg said:

Isn’t that exactly what Obama did? It was ridiculous that he had to, but it seemed to work. 

Not until he had milked the right for all it was worth.  It was masterful.

Trump is certainly not masterful.. he is a sloppy mess, which makes his winning the game all the more shocking.

Edited by matuski
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2 minutes ago, matuski said:

Obama did not release his BC for the same reason the Trump/GOP is reveling in stonewalling.  It is driving you insane and making you act like it.  Same logic, different method.

 

Obama won so much like this, Trump is winning so much like this.

 

Obama did release his BC so I officially have no idea what you're talking about.  

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1 minute ago, parrot said:

Obama did release his BC so I officially have no idea what you're talking about.  

See post above.

And it is obvious you have no idea what I was talking about.

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8 minutes ago, matuski said:

See post above.

And it is obvious you have no idea what I was talking about.

Yeah, since you were stating things that weren't true...

But just to be clear; your position is that the GOP is intentionally withholding evidence that is relevant to their constitutionally mandated Impeachment powers  - info that could evidently clear the whole thing up - purely for political effect, and we are supposed to be okay with that, because birtherism?  Okay.  

Edited by parrot

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58 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

The only people trying to convince us of "both sides" are people who are gearing up to vote for Donald Trump.

Uh....no

A Classic PSF example of “if you’re not slamming trump daily you’re for trump “

 

 

Edited by Cowboysfan8
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59 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

The only people trying to convince us of "both sides" are people who are gearing up to vote for Donald Trump.

You couldn't be more wrong about this. You probably honestly believe your side's #### doesn't stink.

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6 minutes ago, parrot said:

Yeah, since you were stating things that weren't true...

But just to be clear; your position is that the GOP is intentionally withholding evidence that is relevant to their constitutionally mandated Impeachment powers  - info that could evidently clear the whole thing up - purely for political effect, and we are supposed to be okay with that, because birtherism?  Okay.  

Not true?

I mean I have had that exact back and forth a few years back with the resident FBG birther contingent.

Again noting how they were getting played, with them going this exact route you are.... they were just as convinced that they were going to win this fight!  No, no they weren't - and no, no you aren't.

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4 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Uh....no

A Classic PSF example of “if you’re not slamming trump daily you’re for trump “

 

 

Like I said above.. kinda weird.

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

Like I said above.. kinda weird.

It may be weird, but honestly it’s par for the PSF course

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Just now, matuski said:

Not true?

I mean I have had that exact back and forth a few years back with the resident FBG birther contingent.

Again noting how they were getting played, with them going this exact route you are.... they were just as convinced that they were going to win this fight!  No, no they weren't - and no, no you aren't.

Yeah, you said Obama didn't release his BC.  Not true.

You're still comparing dealing with a flimsy conspiracy theory to the official legal response to Impeachment charges in the upper chamber of Congress, and not even acknowledging how ridiculous that comparison is.  Yes, Trump won, while the majority Senate party made no effort to fulfill their constitutional duty and have a full fact-finding.  You seem to think that's a good thing.  Congrats I guess.  

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15 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Uh....no

A Classic PSF example of “if you’re not slamming trump daily you’re for trump “

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, dickey moe said:

You couldn't be more wrong about this. You probably honestly believe your side's #### doesn't stink.

The right wing playbook is to wear you down with a bombardment of suggestions that the insanity of Trump is actually just more of the same and not at all abnormal. So excuse me if I see "ostensibly" non-Trump voters calling plays from it.

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11 minutes ago, parrot said:

Yeah, you said Obama didn't release his BC.  Not true.

So I explained the BC thing, referenced you to that post.

And you start here?

eta - and then again go back to what you are arguing, when that is not at all what I am commenting on.  I am not worried about what you are arguing (Trump is bad), I am noting that the argument you are making is dejavu all over again.

Edited by matuski

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6 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

 

The right wing playbook is to wear you down with a bombardment of suggestions that the insanity of Trump is actually just more of the same and not at all abnormal. So excuse me if I see "ostensibly" non-Trump voters calling plays from it.

I couldn't agree more that the insanity of Trump is abnormal (it is an understatement).  I can't stand the guy.

I'm trying to figure out your angle here, not following at all.

Edited by matuski

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3 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

The right wing playbook is to wear you down with a bombardment of suggestions that the insanity of Trump is actually just more of the same and not at all abnormal. So excuse me if I see "ostensibly" non-Trump voters calling plays from it.

Considering I took out a thread when he got elected called "Ask Your Resident Right-Winger Why He Doesn't Support Donald Trump" and it got many responses, I'm not sure it's the right-wing at all trying to tell you this is normal or par for the course. Quite the contrary. We've been screaming about its abnormality since the primaries. Those that support Trump? They are either celebrating the fact that it's totally new or they hold their nose and remain silent about their support. I would say that a large amount of Trump support comes from those that would support the Reform Party, where there one at the federal level on state ballots anymore. 

I just don't see Trump and right-wing going together. Or have I been displaced quite summarily? 

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10 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

 

The right wing playbook is to wear you down with a bombardment of suggestions that the insanity of Trump is actually just more of the same and not at all abnormal. So excuse me if I see "ostensibly" non-Trump voters calling plays from it.

Your use of ostensibly in this post doesn’t help your cause

Youre wrong, it happens

🤷‍♂️

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12 minutes ago, matuski said:

So I explained the BC thing, referenced you to that post.

And you start here?

eta - and then again go back to what you are arguing, when that is not at all what I am commenting on.  I am not worried about what you are arguing (Trump is bad), I am noting that the argument you are making is dejavu all over again.

I don't know where to start since you keep ignoring most of the underlying points.  I noticed you didn't bother to respond to this;

But just to be clear; your position is that the GOP is intentionally withholding evidence that is relevant to their constitutionally mandated Impeachment powers  - info that could evidently clear the whole thing up - purely for political effect, and we are supposed to be okay with that, because birtherism? 

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11 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Considering I took out a thread when he got elected called "Ask Your Resident Right-Winger Why He Doesn't Support Donald Trump" and it got many responses, I'm not sure it's the right-wing at all trying to tell you this is normal or par for the course. Quite the contrary. We've been screaming about its abnormality since the primaries. Those that support Trump? They are either celebrating the fact that it's totally new or they hold their nose and remain silent about their support. I would say that a large amount of Trump support comes from those that would support the Reform Party, where there one at the federal level on state ballots anymore. 

I just don't see Trump and right-wing going together. Or have I been displaced quite summarily? 

I would agree with you that Trump's policies, in general, do not really fit with the definition of what we traditionally consider "right-wing", assuming we equate right-wing to conservatism.  He's not really all that conservative.  That said, more traditional "true conservative" types have either (1) faded to the fringes of the GOP (i.e. your "principled conservative" "Never-Trumpers") or (2) embraced Trump, reluctantly or otherwise.

I think it's fair to question what is meant by right-wing.  The more "traditional" conservatives do exist, but seem to have a significantly diminished voice in today's GOP.  If we use the term "right-wing" as shorthand for "leans GOP", then the right-wing is what has now become Trump's GOP.   Very Pro-Trump voters may claim to be conservative, surely, but the party of Trump is mostly far from conservative.  It's possible to cherry-pick Trump agenda items and point to conservative principles, but as an independent on the outside looking in....if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

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7 minutes ago, parrot said:

I don't know where to start since you keep ignoring most of the underlying points.  I noticed you didn't bother to respond to this;

 

 

Your "underlying" points are missing the point.

Last try.  I agree that your what you are arguing has more merit than birthers.  The argument you are making, the logic you are using however, is EXACTLY the same.  Verbatim.

It is uncanny.

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1 hour ago, matuski said:

It certainly seemed birthers felt they had a legitimate case as well.

But we know they didnt.  That Is far different that a whistleblower complaint, deemed credible by an IG...and verified by multiple testifying under oath.  To call that a blatantly partisan attack...its just contrary to the facts of what started the inquiry and how it played out.

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