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rockaction

You Can't Be Kidding Me With Sanders

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8 minutes ago, lazyike said:

I am sorry but the thought that there are any candidates more evil than Trump was that funny to me.

Other people can’t disagree with you?

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1 hour ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

The general is going to be the highest election turnout in American history. The liberals are going to be fired up. The conservatives are going to be fired up. My god, i'm taking vacation days. This is going to be glorious. 

I bet the turnout doesn't top 2008.

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4 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Other people can’t disagree with you?

They can, but in here they will get ridiculed. Trump > Socialist Sanders, and it's not even close. 

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9 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Sanders is doing exactly what Trump did in 2016. He's using his enthusiastic voting block (of roughly 35% of the party) to beat a divided field. And the rest of the field is too stubborn and too egotistical to drop out.

The difference in 2016 is that Republicans are dutiful party-line voters, so the vast majority of them held their noses and voted for Trump in the general election. The same can't be said for Democrats -- the Bernie Bros stayed home in 2016, and their right-leaning counterparts are going to stay home in 2020.

You'd think that Democrats would have learned their lesson after the debacle of 2016, but.....nope.

I would say the right leaning may stay home if somebody like a Bush was president. Trump is repulsive to so many people though. 

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1 minute ago, [scooter] said:

Sanders is doing exactly what Trump did in 2016. He's using his enthusiastic voting block (of roughly 35% of the party) to beat a divided field. And the rest of the field is too stubborn and too egotistical to drop out.

The difference in 2016 is that Republicans are dutiful party-line voters, so the vast majority of them held their noses and voted for Trump in the general election. The same can't be said for Democrats -- the Bernie Bros stayed home in 2016, and their right-leaning counterparts are going to stay home in 2020.

You'd think that Democrats would have learned their lesson after the debacle of 2016, but.....nope.

I was just going to post something to the same effect. It's not exactly like Bernie is crushing the field here. Nevada looks like it will be his best showing so far and he's still well under 50% with Democratic voters that are enthusiastic enough to actually get out and vote in a primary. He lost the popular vote to Hillary (a wildly unpopular candidate with an active FBI investigation against her)  by 10 points or so (too lazy to look up the exact number). So in 2016 Bernie lost to arguably one of the worst candidates in modern history in the primary and he seems to be polling overall in lower percentages than he was then. 

And you nailed the big difference between Republicans and Democrats -  Republicans (generally, not all)  have a core set of ingrained values that trump all else: 2nd amendment, abortion, justice appointments, etc. So they are willing to "hold their nose" because those core beliefs are more important to them than anything else. The Democrats don't have that; it is a much more fractured set of ideals which is a characteristic of liberalism and they likely aren't as inclined to vote for a President they really don't like but agree with on some things.

Now with Trump being the opponent, that may introduce a different dynamic where voters will come out against Trump as opposed to for the nominee, but that is unknowable at this point. And this idea that Bernie is going to bring a plethora of new motivated voters to participate and get behind him is something that I don't think is supported by the data at this point. I'm not sure that there is enough data to determine that the increase in new voters will counteract the loss of potential voters by not going with a more moderate policy platform.  In Iowa and New Hampshire, there didn't seems to be an unusual  introduction of new voices to the table and even if there were, Bernie got less than 30% of the Democratic electorate in his corner. 

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26 minutes ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Other people can’t disagree with you?

Well I did say it was funny to “me”

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9 minutes ago, TheMagus said:

I was just going to post something to the same effect. It's not exactly like Bernie is crushing the field here. Nevada looks like it will be his best showing so far and he's still well under 50% with Democratic voters that are enthusiastic enough to actually get out and vote in a primary. He lost the popular vote to Hillary (a wildly unpopular candidate with an active FBI investigation against her)  by 10 points or so (too lazy to look up the exact number). So in 2016 Bernie lost to arguably one of the worst candidates in modern history in the primary and he seems to be polling overall in lower percentages than he was then. 

And you nailed the big difference between Republicans and Democrats -  Republicans (generally, not all)  have a core set of ingrained values that trump all else: 2nd amendment, abortion, justice appointments, etc. So they are willing to "hold their nose" because those core beliefs are more important to them than anything else. The Democrats don't have that; it is a much more fractured set of ideals which is a characteristic of liberalism and they likely aren't as inclined to vote for a President they really don't like but agree with on some things.

Now with Trump being the opponent, that may introduce a different dynamic where voters will come out against Trump as opposed to for the nominee, but that is unknowable at this point. And this idea that Bernie is going to bring a plethora of new motivated voters to participate and get behind him is something that I don't think is supported by the data at this point. I'm not sure that there is enough data to determine that the increase in new voters will counteract the loss of potential voters by not going with a more moderate policy platform.  In Iowa and New Hampshire, there didn't seems to be an unusual  introduction of new voices to the table and even if there were, Bernie got less than 30% of the Democratic electorate in his corner. 

Great points.  Let this sink in a little bit: The candidate the dems are picking is the one that lost to Hillary last time. 

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5 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Great points.  Let this sink in a little bit: The candidate the dems are picking is the one that lost to Hillary last time. 

Not in WI or MI.  And it took a DNC super delegate scam for Hillary to win.  

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3 minutes ago, beef said:

Not in WI or MI.  And it took a DNC super delegate scam for Hillary to win.  

I have really never understood where this narrative came from. Here is the data (from Wikipedia):

Hillary Clinton - 16, 914,722 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 55.2% ; 2271 pledged delegates

Bernie Sanders - 13, 914,428 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 43.1%; 1865 pledged delegates

 

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1 hour ago, [scooter] said:

Sanders is doing exactly what Trump did in 2016. He's using his enthusiastic voting block (of roughly 35% of the party) to beat a divided field. And the rest of the field is too stubborn and too egotistical to drop out.

The difference in 2016 is that Republicans are dutiful party-line voters, so the vast majority of them held their noses and voted for Trump in the general election. The same can't be said for Democrats -- the Bernie Bros stayed home in 2016, and their right-leaning counterparts are going to stay home in 2020.

You'd think that Democrats would have learned their lesson after the debacle of 2016, but.....nope.

Once Bernie bounced back from the heart attack with no major dip in popularity, the writing was on the wall. Trump wrote the playbook to beat the party nomination process. What a shame that our campaign system might face some sort of heavy introspection.

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19 minutes ago, TheMagus said:

I have really never understood where this narrative came from. Here is the data (from Wikipedia):

Hillary Clinton - 16, 914,722 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 55.2% ; 2271 pledged delegates

Bernie Sanders - 13, 914,428 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 43.1%; 1865 pledged delegates

The narrative is all in the momentum. Cable news plastered the super delegate lead every chance they could, I think in some instances before Iowa even. I don't think it's 12 points worth of momentum though. Who knows, maybe the outrage over the "rigging" is what drove turnout in 2016 for Bernie in the first place.

Regardless, it spawned the movement that has been brewing since he announced his candidacy however many years ago.

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well, personally I’m not like @rockaction or @IvanKaramazov

if it’s going to be Bernie I won’t sit it out. I’ll support him and vote for him and hope he wins.

I think you want to put that here.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/783943-bernie-haters-for-bernie/

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2 hours ago, The General said:

It’s going to be WWF. They may actually fight during one of the debates.

It got close last Weds. I thought Klobuchar was going to hit Pete with a chair.

Edited by Mr.Pack
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4 minutes ago, Chicago Hooligan said:

Given that a unisex bathroom also "made you" want to vote for Trump it doesn't seem like you need much motivation.

Then again, Trump's complete and utter inattention to NATO makes me want to come nowhere near voting for him so I'll let you figure out when I'm being hyperbolic. 

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Just now, Mr.Pack said:

It got close last Weds. I thought Klobuchar was going to hit Pete with a chair.

Considering the FEC can't even meet because its board hasn't been filled, I guess we could say they've got their back turned like a WWF ref.

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To answer the OP, I'm not kidding you with Sanders. There is a realistic possibility he is the next President of the United States. Won't be easy because this nation is coasting right along right now, but there is a legit chance.

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2 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

People always call out young people for not voting - maybe they feel they haven’t had something they wanted to bother to vote for.  Not excusing not voting but I think you could be right.

They'll be out and voting. They all see tuition forgiveness and everything else that will be free.

Sad state of affairs this country is in right now.

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1 hour ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

Other people can’t disagree with you?

New around here?

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Then again, Trump's complete and utter inattention to NATO makes me want to come nowhere near voting for him so I'll let you figure out when I'm being hyperbolic. 

Let me offer a reasonable argument: because of the nature of executive power, Trump can do far more to damage NATO than Bernie can to damage capitalism. Thus Trump is the bigger threat. 

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I mean I remember you having a huge meltdown and getting your thread deleted but if this some sort of "calmer than u" play then maybe just sit this one out too. Sit them all out.

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Just now, timschochet said:

Let me offer a reasonable argument: because of the nature of executive power, Trump can do far more to damage NATO than Bernie can to damage capitalism. Thus Trump is the bigger threat. 

I think Bernie would want no part of NATO. Or, he'd want what others have asked for from both elements far right and left and Trump -- equal partnership among the alliance, which never has been and never will be. 

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Bernie will win the popular vote by more than HRC did. Bernie will not win Ohio, will not win Florida, will not win Pennsylvania. That's all that matters. Have fun convincing yourselves otherwise.

Signed,

Anti-Trump

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1 minute ago, Chicago Hooligan said:

I mean I remember you having a huge meltdown and getting your thread deleted but if this some sort of "calmer than u" play then maybe just sit this one out too. Sit them all out.

This deserves this:

herp derp.

And I hate the herp almost as much as the derp. 

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2 minutes ago, Take_The_Shot said:

Bernie will win the popular vote by more than HRC did. Bernie will not win Ohio, will not win Florida, will not win Pennsylvania. That's all that matters. Have fun convincing yourselves otherwise.

Signed,

Anti-Trump

Great quote by liberal movie critic Pauline Kael in late November, 1972, in NYC at the time: 

“I just don’t understand. Everybody I knew voted for McGovern. What happened?” 

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11 minutes ago, hagmania said:

The narrative is all in the momentum. Cable news plastered the super delegate lead every chance they could, I think in some instances before Iowa even. I don't think it's 12 points worth of momentum though. Who knows, maybe the outrage over the "rigging" is what drove turnout in 2016 for Bernie in the first place.

Regardless, it spawned the movement that has been brewing since he announced his candidacy however many years ago.

Any kind of media narrative didn't sway the election 12 flipping points. This is what has had me so frustrated with "the movement" all these years. Bernie lost the primary in 2016 . Full stop. No matter what spin you put on it or somehow Hillary had an advantage because  someone told DWS  they were going to bring up abortion at a debate or whatnot... he lost... big. And Hillary was clearly a terrible candidate, which I didn't realize at the time because I trusted the American people to understand that her flaws were inconsequential when looking at the alternative of Donald [censored] Trump. 

And now Bernie's numbers among the Democratic base are even worse than they were while he was running against what I would consider the worst presidential Democratic candidate of my lifetime based on the fact that she lost to Donald [censored] Trump. AND THAT IS THE DEMOCRATIC BASE/PRIMARY VOTERS. We need a coalition of people that are going to come out to the polls in November in droves to stop this Trump madness. And Bernie can't even get a majority of Democrats to support him. 

And somehow I'm supposed to believe the answer to defeating Trump, which is an existential priority for me, is nominating the candidate that couldn't even beat the worst Democratic candidate in my lifetime? It's crazy town.

And because there are so many candidates running, Bernie is going to get the nomination especially with Bloomberg in the mix essentially ensuring a contested convention. They all know he's going to screw up the numbers so much with his billion dollars that the non-Bernie candidates will hang in even if they have no money left to see if they can get something at the convention. 

I get it. I get how impassioned Bernie supporters are.  But I think the passion clouds a logical view of reality where over half of the Democratic base is not really on board with his policies/messages let alone the electorate as a whole that was apparently willing to elect Donald [censored] Trump in the first place. 

I went into this election cycle skeptical about the cynics that said the Dems were going to screw this up. And here we are. 

I just really don't think that the Bernie supporters get it because they are clouded by the vision of "the movement" and think it is a lot bigger than it is. I am a lifelong Democrat (liberal) who lives in suburban Philadelphia. I would NEVER vote for Bernie Sanders in a general election if the GOP hadn't completely gone off the rails to what it is today. If everything was completely normal and Marco Rubio or John Kasich or Mitt Romney or Justin Amash were the Republican nominee, I would vote for them over Bernie.  And I pay a lot of attention to politics as opposed to my 401K and I know how egregiously bad Trump is and that is the ONLY reason I will vote for Bernie in the general. But that is not going to win the election with the masses who are generally enjoying a pretty good economy. 

/rant

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3 hours ago, rockaction said:

You're not making me vote for Trump, are you?

Are you ####### serious? This guy is left of Mother Jones.

No, he hasn't been vetted. In the least. Wait for that. Good luck in the general.

SIncerely,

RA

No one's "making" you do anything rockaction.  If you think half of what he wants to accomplish is achievable, that's on you.  It's not.  What you get in Bernie is an upgrade in the morality department.  The rest is just noise and "socialism" that isn't even socialism.  If that's worse than Trump to you then oh well :shrug: 

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29 minutes ago, hagmania said:
53 minutes ago, TheMagus said:

I have really never understood where this narrative came from. Here is the data (from Wikipedia):

Hillary Clinton - 16, 914,722 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 55.2% ; 2271 pledged delegates

Bernie Sanders - 13, 914,428 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 43.1%; 1865 pledged delegates

The narrative is all in the momentum. Cable news plastered the super delegate lead every chance they could, I think in some instances before Iowa even. I don't think it's 12 points worth of momentum though. Who knows, maybe the outrage over the "rigging" is what drove turnout in 2016 for Bernie in the first place.

Just for the sake of facts.....Bernie also trailed in non-superdelgate votes for almost the entire campaign. He had a 36-32 lead for a few days after he won New Hampshire in February. That was it.

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Just now, [scooter] said:

Just for the sake of facts.....Bernie also trailed in non-superdelgate votes for almost the entire campaign. He had a 36-32 lead for a few days after he won New Hampshire in February. That was it.

I'm fully aware. I was just offering what the commentary was. Bernie lost; America wasn't ready for him yet. They might be ready for him now.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

No one's "making" you do anything rockaction.  If you think half of what he wants to accomplish is achievable, that's on you.  It's not.  What you get in Bernie is an upgrade in the morality department.  The rest is just noise and "socialism" that isn't even socialism.  If that's worse than Trump to you then oh well :shrug: 

Nah, it's hyperbole, this "making" bit. It's sort of like, "I'm trying to work with you, but..." . I guess licenses for what is truth is don't really fly on the internet. More seriously: I live in CA. My vote was never meaning anything. I'm speaking for those not similarly situated who must be thinking this right now. 

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:
7 minutes ago, The Commish said:

No one's "making" you do anything rockaction.  If you think half of what he wants to accomplish is achievable, that's on you.  It's not.  What you get in Bernie is an upgrade in the morality department.  The rest is just noise and "socialism" that isn't even socialism.  If that's worse than Trump to you then oh well :shrug: 

Nah, it's hyperbole, this "making" bit. It's sort of like, "I'm trying to work with you, but..." . I guess licenses for what is truth is don't really fly on the internet. More seriously: I live in CA. My vote was never meaning anything. I'm speaking for those not similarly situated who must be thinking this right now. 

my comments apply to them also.

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1 minute ago, hagmania said:
2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Just for the sake of facts.....Bernie also trailed in non-superdelgate votes for almost the entire campaign. He had a 36-32 lead for a few days after he won New Hampshire in February. That was it.

I'm fully aware. I was just offering what the commentary was. Bernie lost; America wasn't ready for him yet. They might be ready for him now.

Another familiar commentary was something to the effect of, "The final score only looks like a blowout because Bernie voters gave up when they realized that the system was rigged against them!"

(And that's supposed to inspire confidence that these same quitters are going to come out in force in November??)

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All of my daughter’s friends are supporting Bernie. 

You’ll notice I wrote “supporting” and not “voting for” because who knows where they’ll be on election night? There might be a party, or a test the next day. Now if it was The Bachelor...

But I guess we can say with confidence that if push comes to shove, Bernie will lock down the Chapman University sorority vote. (Just in case California’s in play.) 

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1 minute ago, [scooter] said:

Another familiar commentary was something to the effect of, "The final score only looks like a blowout because Bernie voters gave up when they realized that the system was rigged against them!"

(And that's supposed to inspire confidence that these same quitters are going to come out in force in November??)

Youth is fickle. Bernie is lightning in a bottle, so let's ride the lightning, baby.

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29 minutes ago, Mr.Pack said:

They'll be out and voting. They all see tuition forgiveness and everything else that will be free.

Sad state of affairs this country is in right now.

I wonder what all this free stuff is going to cost me.  I wonder if I will be on the plus side or the negative side of the ledger. 

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Is he gonna vote a free military?

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4 hours ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, my "you're making me vote Trump..." is total hyperbole. I sat out the last one; I'll sit this one out. 

So you wouldn't vote for a centrist democrat against Trump, and you won't vote for a far left democrat against him.

You're not getting a democrat further right than Hillary, so sounds like you're sitting this one out no matter what.

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Why do people continue to talk about 2016 and what happened then as if it has any relevance to right now. The world is so so so different now. Crazy to even bring up how Bernie did against Hillary and not factor in that Donald Trump is the president. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Great quote by liberal movie critic Pauline Kael in late November, 1972, in NYC at the time: 

“I just don’t understand. Everybody I knew voted for McGovern. What happened?” 

Nope. This is a pet peeve of mine. I even did some research and ended up contributing to the Wikipedia entry on it.

Quote

In December 1972, a month after U.S. President Richard Nixon was reelected in a landslide victory, Kael gave a lecture at the Modern Language Association, during which she said, "I live in a rather special world. I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don't know. They're outside my ken. But sometimes when I'm in a theater I can feel them." An article on the lecture in The New York Times included this quote.

The quote quickly turned into an urban legend that Kael had instead stated something like "I can't believe Nixon won. I don't know anyone who voted for him." This misquote, which added an element of surprise on Kael's part, was over the next 40 years regularly cited by conservatives (such as Bernard Goldberg, in his 2001 book Bias) as an example of insularity among the liberal elite. The "I can't believe Nixon won" quote also was sometimes attributed to other liberal female writers, including Katharine Graham, Susan Sontag, and Joan Didion, and was sometimes said to have instead been stated after Ronald Reagan's reelection in 1984

 

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What is the point of this? There’s a thread about the dem primary and a separate Sanders thread, and a third thread started by the other board narcissist telling the Dems to “wake up!” and you need another one because you’re so enlightened @rockaction?  Here’s a news flash - you’re regurgitating the same message big media has been spewing for months now. It’s not newthreadworthy man.  Delete. 

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1 hour ago, TheMagus said:

Any kind of media narrative didn't sway the election 12 flipping points. This is what has had me so frustrated with "the movement" all these years. Bernie lost the primary in 2016 . Full stop. No matter what spin you put on it or somehow Hillary had an advantage because  someone told DWS  they were going to bring up abortion at a debate or whatnot... he lost... big. And Hillary was clearly a terrible candidate, which I didn't realize at the time because I trusted the American people to understand that her flaws were inconsequential when looking at the alternative of Donald [censored] Trump. 

And now Bernie's numbers among the Democratic base are even worse than they were while he was running against what I would consider the worst presidential Democratic candidate of my lifetime based on the fact that she lost to Donald [censored] Trump. AND THAT IS THE DEMOCRATIC BASE/PRIMARY VOTERS. We need a coalition of people that are going to come out to the polls in November in droves to stop this Trump madness. And Bernie can't even get a majority of Democrats to support him. 

And somehow I'm supposed to believe the answer to defeating Trump, which is an existential priority for me, is nominating the candidate that couldn't even beat the worst Democratic candidate in my lifetime? It's crazy town.

And because there are so many candidates running, Bernie is going to get the nomination especially with Bloomberg in the mix essentially ensuring a contested convention. They all know he's going to screw up the numbers so much with his billion dollars that the non-Bernie candidates will hang in even if they have no money left to see if they can get something at the convention. 

I get it. I get how impassioned Bernie supporters are.  But I think the passion clouds a logical view of reality where over half of the Democratic base is not really on board with his policies/messages let alone the electorate as a whole that was apparently willing to elect Donald [censored] Trump in the first place. 

I went into this election cycle skeptical about the cynics that said the Dems were going to screw this up. And here we are. 

I just really don't think that the Bernie supporters get it because they are clouded by the vision of "the movement" and think it is a lot bigger than it is. I am a lifelong Democrat (liberal) who lives in suburban Philadelphia. I would NEVER vote for Bernie Sanders in a general election if the GOP hadn't completely gone off the rails to what it is today. If everything was completely normal and Marco Rubio or John Kasich or Mitt Romney or Justin Amash were the Republican nominee, I would vote for them over Bernie.  And I pay a lot of attention to politics as opposed to my 401K and I know how egregiously bad Trump is and that is the ONLY reason I will vote for Bernie in the general. But that is not going to win the election with the masses who are generally enjoying a pretty good economy. 

/rant

Welcome to the team! https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/783943-bernie-haters-for-bernie/

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3 hours ago, beef said:

It's for real.  Polls cannot accurately measure his support either.  I'm not buying for a second that Bernie can't beat trump.  He was more popular in MI and WI than Hillary.  Could he swing a big college state like FL?  

College students aren't the difference makers in Florida. It's retirees and Latinos. 

I'm not predicting that Bernie can't win; after 2016, I'm out of the prediction business. But while I think it's possible, I would be very surprised if a Bernie victory came via the Sun Belt (FL, GA, TX, AZ). The industrial Midwest is a far more likely path.

Edited by zftcg

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1 hour ago, Mr.Pack said:

They'll be out and voting. They all see tuition forgiveness and everything else that will be free.

Sad state of affairs this country is in right now.

I would like to see Betsy DeVos deported. 

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37 minutes ago, zftcg said:

Nope. This is a pet peeve of mine. I even did some research and ended up contributing to the Wikipedia entry on it.

 

Dammit. You’re ruining my story. Stuff like this doesn’t happen to Trump. 

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4 hours ago, The General said:

I seriously can’t listen to Berns without picturing Larry David - it’s perfect.

Am pretty bummed we won’t get any more of Jason Sudeikis’ Biden. That always kills me :lol: 

 

I think they are distant cousins. 

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2 hours ago, Mr.Pack said:

They'll be out and voting. They all see tuition forgiveness and everything else that will be free.

Sad state of affairs this country is in right now.

The large majority of young people that are into politics enough to get their butt up off the couch and to the booth on election day understand they will be paying more in taxes to make up for the POS price. They don't care.

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2 hours ago, TheMagus said:

I have really never understood where this narrative came from. Here is the data (from Wikipedia):

Hillary Clinton - 16, 914,722 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 55.2% ; 2271 pledged delegates

Bernie Sanders - 13, 914,428 votes from actual people (not super delegates) who voted in the primary --> 43.1%; 1865 pledged delegates

Sanders won several state primaries that ultimately went to Clinton at the convention.  You saw the shenanigans in Nevada in 2016.  There were other problems like the NYC Dem Party purging 200,000 people from the voter rolls.  Hillary Clinton had a secret financial/decision-making agreement with the DNC.  It was a pretty gross operation from top to bottom. 

I suppose it's possible Clinton got more overall votes, but she obviously had tons of flaws, issues with likability, issues with corruption, an ongoing FBI investigation.  It's hard to imagine Sanders losing that election in retrospect.  However you want to spin it he is winning big in this primary.  

I think people underestimate how well he can connect with working class, independents, young people, and especially minorities- huge voting blocs that didn't really turn out for Clinton, that maybe don't always show up at Democratic Primaries.  Their ground game, online support, financials, handling of the media- it's impressive, and you're gonna need all of that to contend with Trump.  Sanders appeals to people that have felt disenfranchised and forgotten for decades.  What 2016 showed us is that a lot of the conventional wisdom we believed in was wrong. 

If people that have spent the past 4 years acting like Trump is an existential threat to the Republic can't find it in themselves to support a much more honest individual, with a much more compassionate outlook for this country & the world (not talking about socialism either- I'm talking about treating immigrants like human beings again, not bombing the #### out of the Middle East, not watching people die in the street or the hospital because they're poor), I don't want to hear their bs about Trump ever again.  

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Let me put this very simply:

Working under the assumption that Bernie is the nominee - if you (generic you, not directed at rock) don’t vote for Bernie then don’t ##### and moan when Trump replaces RBG with an extremely right-wing justice.

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You want to get women to vote for Sanders just remind them that overturning Roe v. Wade is a possibility. 

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