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James Daulton

Government Response To The Coronavirus

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2 hours ago, RnR said:

That's fair. Part of the reason I'm taking on the masses in this thread is that I hate to see such divisive talk in what really needs to be a rallying moment for the country. Yeah, Trump is a bad presidential draw for the pandemic. I get that. I think in a moment of privacy even he'd probably admit that. But we have what we have and here we are. We're all worried.

Just scroll back and look at the insults hurled my way in the last page of the thread. Most of these guys barely know my political leanings.

What gives you this idea? When ever has he ever shown an ounce of humility? He thinks he’s amazing.

This is the problem. 

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2 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Trump wasn't up there touting chloroquine PHOSPHATE. Anyone trying to pin the death of a man drinking aquarium cleaner on Trump aloud should really consider what their credibility will be going forward.

I see you've dismissed that self fear.

 

2 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

 

🤣

Get outta here with this nonsense. If Trump told everyone to drink more water, are you also blaming him for the death of someone who drinks hydrogen peroxide because it's got water+ in it?

 

The wife of an Arizona man who died after ingesting chloroquine phosphate to protect himself from the coronavirus warned the public on Monday not to "believe anything that the president says" and rely on doctors instead.

"We saw Trump on TV — every channel — and all of his buddies and that this was safe," the woman, who is in critical care after taking the drug with her husband, told NBC News' Vaughn Hillyard. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kept-saying-basically-pretty-013927321.html

 

This is what Team Belief begets us.  And even worse with Trump as Potus.

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I look at this thread and I don't see a way out of what is coming our way. Some of you are so entrenched in your hatred of Trump, you are happy when he has a misstep and looking to score a point for "your side" Guess what--there are going to 25k+ voters composted of each political party wishing to vote that day, but they can't because they are gone. This virus doesn't give a hoot who you are and how you vote.

After 9-11 we gathered together and found common ground. Why not now? You can hate Trump. but so many of you are taking an [ll-informed stance. You are not winning anything at this point.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Courtjester said:

I look at this thread and I don't see a way out of what is coming our way. Some of you are so entrenched in your hatred of Trump, you are happy when he has a misstep and looking to score a point for "your side" Guess what--there are going to 25k+ voters composted of each political party wishing to vote that day, but they can't because they are gone. This virus doesn't give a hoot who you are and how you vote.

After 9-11 we gathered together and found common ground. Why not now? You can hate Trump. but so many of you are taking an [ll-informed stance. You are not winning anything at this point.

 

 

 

I think you’re seriously wrong to believe that people are happy about Trump’s missteps regarding this virus. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think you’re seriously wrong to believe that people are happy about Trump’s missteps regarding this virus. 

Tim--go to CNN and count the number of "gotcha" articles there.  The press conference questions asked after each session further bolster my point. We have a media that cares about scoring points for their "side" vs. just helping us. We have journalists who want to be "the news" vs reporting the news.

I just want numbers--I want facts--I don't need a slant.

Edited by Courtjester

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4 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

Tim--go to CNN and count the number of "gotcha" articles there.  The press conference questions asked after each session further bolster my point. We have a media that cares about scoring points for their "side" vs. just helping us. We have journalists who want to be "the news" vs reporting the news.

I just want numbers--I want facts--I don't need a slant.

With everything going on you still crying about news media?  Screw the news media.

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46 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

With everything going on you still crying about news media?  Screw the news media.

I agree totally. I responded in the FFA--thank you very much.... I am truly scared for my wife and girls.

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4 hours ago, Zigg said:

Full disclosure, I work in a hotel and am getting killed missing my peak earning season, maybe next summer too.  It's a sacrifice most of us have to deal with.    

What do you think about hotels getting bailouts?  Anything in the tourism industry is getting absolutely slaughtered right now, but if we bail out the hotel industry Trump is likely to be a recipient.  The optics of that look terrible.  Then again, I don't think we can ignore the massive hit they have taken.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

 

 

The wife of an Arizona man who died after ingesting chloroquine phosphate to protect himself from the coronavirus warned the public on Monday not to "believe anything that the president says" and rely on doctors instead.

"We saw Trump on TV — every channel — and all of his buddies and that this was safe," the woman, who is in critical care after taking the drug with her husband, told NBC News' Vaughn Hillyard. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kept-saying-basically-pretty-013927321.html

 

This is what Team Belief begets us.  And even worse with Trump as Potus.

Did they take it the way they are supposed to under Dr. supervision?  I thought I heard of people being cured by this?  I did hear about some people in Nigeria dying from it as well.  Maybe they took too much?

***ETA***

Sorry for the Daily Mail link,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8144449/Man-dies-wife-critical-care-took-fish-tank-cleaner-cure-coronavirus.html

Edited by Punxsutawney Phil

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6 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Umm why do you think the man took it?

Well, he should be in line for a Darwin award now. But yeah. And to think that sort of stuff only happens in Florida

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5 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

 

 

The wife of an Arizona man who died after ingesting chloroquine phosphate to protect himself from the coronavirus warned the public on Monday not to "believe anything that the president says" and rely on doctors instead.

"We saw Trump on TV — every channel — and all of his buddies and that this was safe," the woman, who is in critical care after taking the drug with her husband, told NBC News' Vaughn Hillyard. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kept-saying-basically-pretty-013927321.html

 

This is what Team Belief begets us.  And even worse with Trump as Potus.

When did Trump say fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure?????? Outrageous the way the media is spinning this. They hate Trump, they want the economy to tank. They want chaos. 

In fact a few media outlets were the ones saying this fish tank cleaner had chloroquine in it. They should be held responsible for this.

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5 hours ago, Courtjester said:

Tim--go to CNN and count the number of "gotcha" articles there.  The press conference questions asked after each session further bolster my point. We have a media that cares about scoring points for their "side" vs. just helping us. We have journalists who want to be "the news" vs reporting the news.

I just want numbers--I want facts--I don't need a slant.

It’s not gotcha articles and we aren’t happy he failed. Thousands will die because of his arrogance. That needs to be reported. He’s not getting another pass. 

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5 hours ago, Courtjester said:

I look at this thread and I don't see a way out of what is coming our way. Some of you are so entrenched in your hatred of Trump, you are happy when he has a misstep and looking to score a point for "your side" Guess what--there are going to 25k+ voters composted of each political party wishing to vote that day, but they can't because they are gone. This virus doesn't give a hoot who you are and how you vote.

After 9-11 we gathered together and found common ground. Why not now? You can hate Trump. but so many of you are taking an [ll-informed stance. You are not winning anything at this point.

 

 

 

I know it’s somewhat dark humor, but this misspell here made me giggle

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5 minutes ago, That one guy said:

I know it’s somewhat dark humor, but this misspell here made me giggle

Soylent green!

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23 minutes ago, Coach Morris Buttermaker said:

When did Trump say fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure?????? Outrageous the way the media is spinning this. They hate Trump, they want the economy to tank. They want chaos. 

In fact a few media outlets were the ones saying this fish tank cleaner had chloroquine in it. They should be held responsible for this.

The media made the guy’s wife say they got the idea from Trump?

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6 hours ago, Courtjester said:

Tim--go to CNN and count the number of "gotcha" articles there.  The press conference questions asked after each session further bolster my point. We have a media that cares about scoring points for their "side" vs. just helping us. We have journalists who want to be "the news" vs reporting the news.

I just want numbers--I want facts--I don't need a slant.

You are right but if you're watching CNN you kind of know what you're getting, just like Fox.    I've been watching ABC news and I think they've been pretty good.   I don't think it is a gotcha to point out the difficulties in getting masks, ventilators, tests, etc.  That stuff is happening and I don't think it is a low blow to point out that we still have shortages months after the initial outbreak.

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6 hours ago, Courtjester said:

Tim--go to CNN and count the number of "gotcha" articles there.  The press conference questions asked after each session further bolster my point. We have a media that cares about scoring points for their "side" vs. just helping us. We have journalists who want to be "the news" vs reporting the news.

I just want numbers--I want facts--I don't need a slant.

Then stop going to our mainstream media.  That's an incredibly easy thing to do.  Go to reuters or BBC or even The AP and/or NPR.  All those places will give you what you're asking for. :shrug: 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Coach Morris Buttermaker said:
7 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

 

 

The wife of an Arizona man who died after ingesting chloroquine phosphate to protect himself from the coronavirus warned the public on Monday not to "believe anything that the president says" and rely on doctors instead.

"We saw Trump on TV — every channel — and all of his buddies and that this was safe," the woman, who is in critical care after taking the drug with her husband, told NBC News' Vaughn Hillyard. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kept-saying-basically-pretty-013927321.html

 

This is what Team Belief begets us.  And even worse with Trump as Potus.

When did Trump say fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure?????? Outrageous the way the media is spinning this. They hate Trump, they want the economy to tank. They want chaos. 

In fact a few media outlets were the ones saying this fish tank cleaner had chloroquine in it. They should be held responsible for this.

https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1240672025989001221

ETA:  And to be crystal clear, it's my belief that the muddled incoherent messaging is the issue here.  He didn't manage to utter the words "take fish tank cleaner, it will help you" but the way it is presented coupled with the realities people are seeing make dumb people do dumb things.  I broke down and took a quick scan through all the usual suspect sites and I didn't find one that said "Trump told people fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure".  So I'm not sure where the "media spin" is that you're seeing.  It's 100% accurate to say "a guy heard Trump mention drug X as a possible cure and he saw drug X in his fish tank cleaner so he took it".

THIS is the danger with incoherent rambling messages of nonsense.  When introduced to an already panicked group who believe almost everything he says this is what can happen.  Ultimately this lands at the feet of the individual taking the action...no one forced him to do it.  Dumb decision to be sure.

Edited by The Commish
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Coach Morris Buttermaker said:

When did Trump say fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure?????? Outrageous the way the media is spinning this. They hate Trump, they want the economy to tank. They want chaos. 

In fact a few media outlets were the ones saying this fish tank cleaner had chloroquine in it. They should be held responsible for this.

This is an interview with the woman.

- This is a weird argument. You can tell without checking that right wing media is assailing CNN for this - for reporting it (it is newsworthy) and for including Trump’s past statements on it (which happened). - I agree the President shouldn’t be responsible for stupid people doing stupid things but this did happen. - A bigger problem is hydrochloroquine not being available for approved treatment and studies, which is happening, not to mention this magic bullet approach to the crisis. And frankly this is consistent, in Trump’s past crises fantasy, magic bullet theories have been ultimate go-to methods for Trump.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Posted (edited)

So say next week Trump declares everyone should go back to work or whatever.

Do governors still have the authority to keep everyone at home if they choose?

Edited by Skoo

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Posted (edited)

The relationship between the media and Trump is awful. It's either full on hatred or a love-fest for the most part but that seems representative of the country as a whole. I think it is an unfortunate result of a few factors:

1. The instant news media where we have to get stories out first so even if something may not be totally accurate, it is getting reported right away

2. We have allowed the news media to become a profit center. The corporate owners of the news media want profit and the way to generate that usually isn't with sound quality journalism.

3. Americans don't have an appetite for nuanced, detail oriented reporting. We want splashy headlines, loud talking heads and snappy sound bytes.

4. Trump is a jerk and antagonizes or whines about anything negative connected to him. He has done nothing to try to foster a good relationship with the media. 

So here we are. If we wanted, facts, figures, rationality, etc. we would not have elected Trump and we wouldn't tune into to Fox or MSNBC. It seems we really just want to be entertained. We as a country have made our choices and we are living through the nightmarish result of it. A

Edited by Ilov80s
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Just now, Skoo said:

So say next week Trump declares everyone should go back to work or whatever.

Do governors still have the authority to keep everyone at home if they choose?

Yes.  But at least Trump won't get blamed for it.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Skoo said:

So say next week Trump declares everyone should go back to work or whatever.

Do governors still have the authority to keep everyone at home if they choose?

Fortunately, I'm pretty sure they do.  And speaking of governors, I feel it necessary to acknowledge the good decision here in Florida (yes, some dumb ones too as outlined in the Florida thread) that DeSantis has stopped all passengers coming in from NY/NJ without a mandatory 14 self quarantine and correctly points out "staying with other family" doesn't meet the criteria of self quarantine.

He's been relatively flexible allowing the local municipalities to come up with solutions they believe are smart for them.  Some I agree with, others I don't, but this one seems like a no brainer.

Edited by The Commish

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https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fo1nf9/countries_by_infection_and_growth_of_infection/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
 

Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, and Japan have halted or reversed the spread... by doing everything Trump is rejecting. Aggressive testing, isolation, and separation.

Trump is a dangerous cocktail of ignorant and sociopathic. If he is allowed to direct the response, he will steer us into an iceberg.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

CV19 tracker.

- By the Financial Times, now released from paywall.

Everyone needs to bookmark this page and refer back to it as new data comes in.  And pay attention to what SK, Japan, Singapore etc have done and see how it's paying off for them.  We are over half way to where China's at already.  I find that pretty alarming given our inadequate testing.  We'll be well passed China when this is all said and done IMO.

Edited by The Commish
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25 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

The relationship between the media and Trump is awful. It's either full on hatred or a love-fest for the most part but that seems representative of the country as a whole. I think it is an unfortunate result of a few factors:

1. The instant news media where we have to get stories out first so even if something may not be totally accurate, it is getting reported right away

2. We have allowed the news media to become a profit center. The corporate owners of the news media want profit and the way to generate that usually isn't with sound quality journalism.

3. Americans don't have an appetite for nuanced, detail oriented reporting. We want splashy headlines, loud talking heads and snappy sound bytes.

4. Trump is a jerk and antagonizes or whines about anything negative connected to him. He has done nothing to try to foster a good relationship with the media. 

So here we are. If we wanted, facts, figures, rationality, etc. we would not have elected Trump and we wouldn't tune into to Fox or MSNBC. It seems we really just want to be entertained. We as a country have made our choices and we are living through the nightmarish result of it. A

You get all my likes for the rest of the day.

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25 minutes ago, Skoo said:

So say next week Trump declares everyone should go back to work or whatever.

Do governors still have the authority to keep everyone at home if they choose?

Assuming that all travel destinations, sports, concerts, restaurants, retail stores and movie theaters were opened tomorrow are you going there?  Until there is a decline in the outbreak and effective drug treatment telling people to go back to work isn't going to do all that much to convince people it is okay to resume normal day-to-day to living.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a quick and easy fix for the economy no matter what the government does  

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Assuming most people have seen TX Lt. Governor Dan Patrick suggesting that old people take one for the team. Makes me want to remake the quote from Dumb & Dumber. 
 

Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow, dangerous behind the wheel, and highly susceptible to a novel coronavirus, can still serve a purpose. I'll be right back. Don't you go dying on me!

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14 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Assuming that all travel destinations, sports, concerts, restaurants, retail stores and movie theaters were opened tomorrow are you going there? 

Heck no. I think it’s insane this is even being discussed right now. We haven’t even gotten to the bad part yet and people just wanna ditch every precaution put in place.

We should’ve shut the country down two weeks ago.

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17 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Assuming that all travel destinations, sports, concerts, restaurants, retail stores and movie theaters were opened tomorrow are you going there?  Until there is a decline in the outbreak and effective drug treatment telling people to go back to work isn't going to do all that much to convince people it is okay to resume normal day-to-day to living.

Unfortunately I don't think there is a quick and easy fix for the economy no matter what the government does  

This is exactly true. Trump is like the Mayor of Amity trying to convince everyone to get in the water. 

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7 hours ago, Courtjester said:

I look at this thread and I don't see a way out of what is coming our way. Some of you are so entrenched in your hatred of Trump, you are happy when he has a misstep and looking to score a point for "your side" Guess what--there are going to 25k+ voters composted of each political party wishing to vote that day, but they can't because they are gone. This virus doesn't give a hoot who you are and how you vote.

After 9-11 we gathered together and found common ground. Why not now? You can hate Trump. but so many of you are taking an [ll-informed stance. You are not winning anything at this point.

 

 

 

No...we need to stop the bogus assertion that because people are posting his screw ups that we are happy about him screwing this up.  That is far far far from the case.  There is literally zero to base that on in here yet we see the accusation multiple posters.  His missteps on this are costing us all money...possible safety and health of our own self, family, or friends.  Millions are hurting because of this both healthwise and financially.  Nobody is happy he has screwed this up.

After 911 we gathered together and had more unity sure...much of that also came from the top...now we get division starting at the top...complete lies starting at the top.  I will not unite around lies and will not agree with stances that are against medicine, science, and logic in order to be unified as a country.  A country unified around BS is not strong.  If the president wants unity...he needs to start acting that way...he needs to lead, to let the experts talk and do their work, to stop the daily lies and propaganda he pushes.  But he does not seem capable of that.  And many of his supporters don't seem capable of admitting even how wrong he has been on much of this.  Some like to preach unity...yet refuse to see the side opposing this president's lies...are the side to be unified with.

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1 hour ago, Skoo said:

So say next week Trump declares everyone should go back to work or whatever.

Do governors still have the authority to keep everyone at home if they 

Trump is just blowing out his ### now. He has no control because he refused to take control at the beginning. Also as posted a lot of people won't go to entertainment places, restaurants and bars anyway if it's not oked by the medical side.

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7 hours ago, Courtjester said:

Tim--go to CNN and count the number of "gotcha" articles there.  The press conference questions asked after each session further bolster my point. We have a media that cares about scoring points for their "side" vs. just helping us. We have journalists who want to be "the news" vs reporting the news.

I just want numbers--I want facts--I don't need a slant.

Ive see CNN and the articles...none of which points to people being happy about it.  The questions asked bolster what point?  That some will try to hold the man accountable for his words and actions?  ITs not about scoring points for a side...other than the side of this country.  They are reporting the news...they are asking pertinent questions...and getting lies and insults as answers.  Nobody is forcing Trump to make those errors.

If you want numbers and facts...you should like the media...that is what they are reporting...vs the slant and lies out of Trump.  This is not hard to see.

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2 hours ago, Coach Morris Buttermaker said:

When did Trump say fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure?????? Outrageous the way the media is spinning this. They hate Trump, they want the economy to tank. They want chaos. 

In fact a few media outlets were the ones saying this fish tank cleaner had chloroquine in it. They should be held responsible for this.

Spin on this would be claiming the man's actions had zero to do with chloroquine being pushed by people...like Trump.

 

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Just a reminder... if everyone had sheltered in place a month ago (or Christ even 2 weeks ago), and had we isolated the positive cases at that time, this would mostly be over by now. 

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1 hour ago, Skoo said:

So say next week Trump declares everyone should go back to work or whatever.

Do governors still have the authority to keep everyone at home if they choose?

Yes. And Trump said as much during the taskforce presser yesterday.

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Just now, RnR said:

Yes. And Trump said as much during the taskforce presser yesterday.

Oh good. Then we can completely ignore him anyway, since he has no clue what's going on.

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2 hours ago, Coach Morris Buttermaker said:

When did Trump say fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure?????? Outrageous the way the media is spinning this. They hate Trump, they want the economy to tank. They want chaos. 

In fact a few media outlets were the ones saying this fish tank cleaner had chloroquine in it. They should be held responsible for this.

 

4 hours ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

Did they take it the way they are supposed to under Dr. supervision?  I thought I heard of people being cured by this?  I did hear about some people in Nigeria dying from it as well.  Maybe they took too much?

***ETA***

Sorry for the Daily Mail link,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8144449/Man-dies-wife-critical-care-took-fish-tank-cleaner-cure-coronavirus.html

 

10 hours ago, mcintyre1 said:

Go ahead and google "chloroquine phosphate" and see what you get related to medicine. I'll help you: WebMD for Chloroquine 

Quote

Chloroquine Phosphate

COMMON BRAND(S): Aralen

GENERIC NAME(S): Chloroquine Phosphate

He did take chloroquine, but he likely took far too much of it. It isn't a "fish aquarium cleaner" like bleach or something, it is used to kill things like algae in the water, and can be prescribed by a veterinarian as a treatment.

Here's a NYPost article from 4 days ago that's suitably tragic, given these circumstances: Sales of fish tank additive skyrocket after studies say it could treat coronavirus

 

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4 minutes ago, Tom Skerritt said:

Just a reminder... if everyone had sheltered in place a month ago (or Christ even 2 weeks ago), and had we isolated the positive cases at that time, this would mostly be over by now. 

I'm not sure this is true, but we would definitely be closer to it being over than not.  Its still tough to know exactly where we're at given our lack of testing ability.  

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Then stop going to our mainstream media.  That's an incredibly easy thing to do.  Go to reuters or BBC or even The AP and/or NPR.  All those places will give you what you're asking for. :shrug: 

Very true here as well...as much as I disagree with his overall stance.  

ABC hasn't been bad...but my go to apps on my phone are the BBC, Reuters, and AP News.  At home my station if I turn the news on is typically ABC...mainly because I prefer their local coverage of things anyway.

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

I'm not sure this is true, but we would definitely be closer to it being over than not.  Its still tough to know exactly where we're at given our lack of testing ability.  

Agreed. That assumes we had the ability to test a month ago... which we did not unfortunately. 

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1240672025989001221

ETA:  And to be crystal clear, it's my belief that the muddled incoherent messaging is the issue here.  He didn't manage to utter the words "take fish tank cleaner, it will help you" but the way it is presented coupled with the realities people are seeing make dumb people do dumb things.  I broke down and took a quick scan through all the usual suspect sites and I didn't find one that said "Trump told people fish tank cleaner was safe and a cure".  So I'm not sure where the "media spin" is that you're seeing.  It's 100% accurate to say "a guy heard Trump mention drug X as a possible cure and he saw drug X in his fish tank cleaner so he took it".

THIS is the danger with incoherent rambling messages of nonsense.  When introduced to an already panicked group who believe almost everything he says this is what can happen.  Ultimately this lands at the feet of the individual taking the action...no one forced him to do it.  Dumb decision to be sure.

 

1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

This is an interview with the woman.

- This is a weird argument. You can tell without checking that right wing media is assailing CNN for this - for reporting it (it is newsworthy) and for including Trump’s past statements on it (which happened). - I agree the President shouldn’t be responsible for stupid people doing stupid things but this did happen. - A bigger problem is hydrochloroquine not being available for approved treatment and studies, which is happening, not to mention this magic bullet approach to the crisis. And frankly this is consistent, in Trump’s past crises fantasy, magic bullet theories have been ultimate go-to methods for Trump.

 

Back to back great posts here.

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5 minutes ago, Tom Skerritt said:

Just a reminder... if everyone had sheltered in place a month ago (or Christ even 2 weeks ago), and had we isolated the positive cases at that time, this would mostly be over by now. 

Not a chance we can prove this is actually true, but sure. Let's go with that because it give you an unarguable tool with which to attack our government officials.

I can come up with some great hypotheticals that eliminate the virus, too. Those and a dollar will but me a $1 coffee this morning. Just like your assertion.

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To anyone wanting just facts and numbers, please keep in mind that the numbers out there are completely meaningless since we are not testing.  The only number that has a basis in reality is deaths.

I do not think it is spin or gotcha-ism to question why we are not following the example of countries that have had success containing this - by testing as many people as possible and by limiting social contact for anyone who has it.  Our problem is that without testing, we have to assume EVERYONE has it, thus EVERYONE needs to be locked down.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

The relationship between the media and Trump is awful. It's either full on hatred or a love-fest for the most part but that seems representative of the country as a whole. I think it is an unfortunate result of a few factors:

1. The instant news media where we have to get stories out first so even if something may not be totally accurate, it is getting reported right away

2. We have allowed the news media to become a profit center. The corporate owners of the news media want profit and the way to generate that usually isn't with sound quality journalism.

3. Americans don't have an appetite for nuanced, detail oriented reporting. We want splashy headlines, loud talking heads and snappy sound bytes.

4. Trump is a jerk and antagonizes or whines about anything negative connected to him. He has done nothing to try to foster a good relationship with the media. 

So here we are. If we wanted, facts, figures, rationality, etc. we would not have elected Trump and we wouldn't tune into to Fox or MSNBC. It seems we really just want to be entertained. We as a country have made our choices and we are living through the nightmarish result of it. A

Agree with a lot of this...#2 is one that seems to be an issue all around in this country.  Too many industries have become profit centers rather than intended purposes.  Think healthcare/medicine.  Profit seems to be the goal of the system vs. informing/treating.

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1 minute ago, Tom Skerritt said:

Agreed. That assumes we had the ability to test a month ago... which we did not unfortunately. 

Oh...then absolutely...we'd be WAAAAAY further ahead than where we're at.  The lack of testing and the lack of will to test early will be the key to this whole thing when the history books are written on this topic.

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1 minute ago, KPD said:

To anyone wanting just facts and numbers, please keep in mind that the numbers out there are completely meaningless since we are not testing.  The only number that has a basis in reality is deaths.

I do not think it is spin or gotcha-ism to question why we are not following the example of countries that have had success containing this - by testing as many people as possible and by limiting social contact for anyone who has it.  Our problem is that without testing, we have to assume EVERYONE has it, thus EVERYONE needs to be locked down.

:goodposting:

It's why I asked @jon_mx yesterday what he believed we'd be able to extrapolate from the raw death numbers.  We have a big fat large elephant of unknown sitting right in our faces that needs to be addressed before we start attempting those kinds of conversations.  We are still in the "we don't know what we don't know" phase of this whole thing...getting ready to start our third month.

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

:goodposting:

It's why I asked @jon_mx yesterday what he believed we'd be able to extrapolate from the raw death numbers.  We have a big fat large elephant of unknown sitting right in our faces that needs to be addressed before we start attempting those kinds of conversations.  We are still in the "we don't know what we don't know" phase of this whole thing...getting ready to start our third month.

That last sentence by itself is a huge red flag. Granted, we know exactly why everything started so slow in reacting to this, but the fact that it's being considered to reopen everything in the middle of this just makes it that much worse.

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