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Government Response To The Coronavirus (6 Viewers)

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Meanwhile at the Fox virtual town hall that Trump is participating in (that I can't bring myself to watch)

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1242497671266537472

Trump is talking about the number of flu deaths. "We don't turn the country off" because of that, he says. He then invokes car accidents; he says we didn't tell car companies "stop making cars."

:mellow:
Is he really going back to flu and cars again...after doing so yesterday...and after Fauci disagreed with him about that narrative last week?

Also...is there a task force briefing today without Trump?  OR do we just get Trump via Fox crap today?

 
Moving the goalposts already...Trump just said that he’d love to have the country opened back up by Easter, April 12

 
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1242499524574228484

Trump says people can go to work and clean their hands five times more than usual, and not shake hands, "and things will happen," but this situation can't go on. "You're going to have suicides by the thousands."

Suicides by the thousands?  A bit over the top,  no?
Based on statistics reported by Galbraith in The Great Crash 1929, the suicide rate in the United States increased from 17.0 per 100,000 people in 1929 to 21.3 in 1932 during the worst of the financial calamity.

I'll let those of you who like to do math on potential deaths from Covid-19 extrapolate those rates for our 2020 population under depression-like conditions that would result from a long-term economic shutdown.

I think you'll find that "thousands" is not an exaggeration of the worst-cast scenario.

 
Is he really going back to flu and cars again...after doing so yesterday...and after Fauci disagreed with him about that narrative last week?

Also...is there a task force briefing today without Trump?  OR do we just get Trump via Fox crap today?
Just that instead of the task force briefing.  :(      

 
Moving the goalposts already...Trump just said that he’d love to have the country opened back up by Easter, April 12
Moving the goalposts from where? Some in here were implying as recently as last night that he has been implying he's ready to open things back up tomorrow. If that's how some of you really felt, isn't that great news to you?

 
Based on statistics reported by Galbraith in The Great Crash 1929, the suicide rate in the United States increased from 17.0 per 100,000 people in 1929 to 21.3 in 1932 during the worst of the financial calamity.

I'll let those of you who like to do math on potential deaths from Covid-19 extrapolate those rates for our 2020 population under depression-like conditions that would result from a long-term economic shutdown.

I think you'll find that "thousands" is not an exaggeration of the worst-cast scenario.
@NobodyLikesMath

 
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1242499524574228484

Trump says people can go to work and clean their hands five times more than usual, and not shake hands, "and things will happen," but this situation can't go on. "You're going to have suicides by the thousands."

Suicides by the thousands?  A bit over the top,  no?
And yet...people will defend stuff like this.

The little I have seen and now read about this thing...its worse than the press conferences.  Just flat out awful of him...he is going back to a few weeks ago basically and downplaying all of this  Thats awful rhetoric.

 
Sure as an administration...the conversation though was asking specifics about Trump's words vs. Trump's actions.

CDC is not a "Trump action".
CDC actions could certainly be related to Trump appointee actions.  It’s hard to know for sure.

 
We should do a poll:

Who would you rather see die:

A. Carnival Cruise Line

B. Grandma
Imagine have to choose between a disease spreader and a disease catcher.

Seriously what the #### is Fauci doing that is more important than a Pandemic.  Did he get moved to Italy

 
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CDC actions could certainly be related to Trump appointee actions.  It’s hard to know for sure.
Could be...but none of those appear to be directed by Trump...so not necessarily accurate to claim they are Trump actions...that is the point.  Why defend this?  

 
Could be...but none of those appear to be directed by Trump...so not necessarily accurate to claim they are Trump actions...that is the point.  Why defend this?  
Defend what?  How administrative actions relate to the President?  It’s hard to know so I’m just looking for consistency.  I don’t expect I’ll find it here though.  That much seems clear.

 
We should do a poll:

Who would you rather see die:

A. Carnival Cruise Line

B. Grandma
Or, you could do it this way...

A. Uncle Jim (who is a healthy, productive member of society with 3 daughters in need of financial support, a belly up small business, a mortgage he can't pay and a wife that got laid off from her job) makes the ultimate "bad choice" after slipping into the psychological abyss while he's at quarantined at home in a non-hot spot area.

B. Grandma (who is in the nursing home with 3 underlying conditions and facing the harsh reality that a hodge podge of easily contracted illnesses could cut short her precious time left w/family) dies via complications from COVID-19.

That one isn't as fun, is it?

 
Defend what?  How administrative actions relate to the President?  It’s hard to know so I’m just looking for consistency.  I don’t expect I’ll find it here though.  That much seems clear.
Consistency...yes...consistently Im not going to automatically claim a CDC action is the action of POTUS...HTH

 
Or, you could do it this way...

A. Uncle Jim (who is a healthy, productive member of society with 3 daughters in need of financial support, a belly up small business, a mortgage he can't pay and a wife that got laid off from her job) makes the ultimate "bad choice" after slipping into the psychological abyss while he's at quarantined at home in a non-hot spot area.

B. Grandma (who is in the nursing home with 3 underlying conditions and facing the harsh reality that a hodge podge of easily contracted illnesses could cut short her precious time left w/family) dies via complications from COVID-19.

That one isn't as fun, is it?
Is anyone against aid for small businesses?  I think that was the point.  Trump was talking about aid for Cruise Lines

 
Or, you could do it this way...

A. Uncle Jim (who is a healthy, productive member of society with 3 daughters in need of financial support, a belly up small business, a mortgage he can't pay and a wife that got laid off from her job) makes the ultimate "bad choice" after slipping into the psychological abyss while he's at quarantined at home in a non-hot spot area.

B. Grandma (who is in the nursing home with 3 underlying conditions and facing the harsh reality that a hodge podge of easily contracted illnesses could cut short her precious time left w/family) dies via complications from COVID-19.

That one isn't as fun, is it?
This country isn’t good with handling the death of the elderly.  It’s a shortcoming that will have to be overcome if there is any shot at socialized medicine.

 
He doesn't care.
No capacity to.  Sadly, his base is more interested in his re-election than the economy—which most certainly will buckle further with tens of thousands sick and dying—not to mention, you know...the sick and dying part.  As the position has been made abundantly clear already (even here), people get sick and die all the time what’s the big deal?

 
Or, you could do it this way...

A. Uncle Jim (who is a healthy, productive member of society with 3 daughters in need of financial support, a belly up small business, a mortgage he can't pay and a wife that got laid off from her job) makes the ultimate "bad choice" after slipping into the psychological abyss while he's at quarantined at home in a non-hot spot area.

B. Grandma (who is in the nursing home with 3 underlying conditions and facing the harsh reality that a hodge podge of easily contracted illnesses could cut short her precious time left w/family) dies via complications from COVID-19.

That one isn't as fun, is it?
Sadly my Uncle Jim has Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma - and his chemo treatments are currently on hold.  :kicksrock:

But - for the small business owner - we should be helping him/her out.  For the laid off employee - we should be helping him/her out.  For the economy - we should be dumping money into the hands of 300M consumers, and let them decide which businesses are worth saving.

 
BladeRunner said:
@FBG Moderator can we get some clean up in here?
Use the report button so we can see the posts that are way over the line. Thank you. But please use some judgement and only report stuff way over the line. The mods are busy like everyone else so please don't waste their time. 

 
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Sadly my Uncle Jim has Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma - and his chemo treatments are currently on hold.  :kicksrock:

But - for the small business owner - we should be helping him/her out.  For the laid off employee - we should be helping him/her out.  For the economy - we should be dumping money into the hands of 300M consumers, and let them decide which businesses are worth saving.
 
Government mandated shutdowns of “non-essential” businesses are already deciding that.

 
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But - for the small business owner - we should be helping him/her out.  For the laid off employee - we should be helping him/her out.  For the economy - we should be dumping money into the hands of 300M consumers, and let them decide which businesses are worth saving.
You have way more faith in the government's ability to do this the right way than I do. I hope all of that happens.

ETA: When the government decides to shut down some businesses, but not others, they're putting their guiding hand into which of those survive/fail. That's tough.

 
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Government mandated shutdowns of “non-essential” businesses are already deciding that.
Not really - at least not if we get the stimulus package right.

There will be a point in the future where people are going back to work.  Many businesses are still operating today - albeit with skeleton staffs and people working from home.  But this is a "pause" not a complete shut-down.  

And, if this were really just about saving the "economy" the easy solution is to simply tax the wealthy, and redistribute that wealth to keep the economy afloat.  But, I suspect you won't find many people advocating for that...

 
And, if this were really just about saving the "economy" the easy solution is to simply tax the wealthy, and redistribute that wealth to keep the economy afloat.  But, I suspect you won't find many people advocating for that...
They, um, already do that.

 
You have way more faith in the government's ability to do this the right way than I do. I hope all of that happens.

ETA: When the government decides to shut down some businesses, but not others, they're putting their guiding hand into which of those survive/fail. That's tough.
Governments are not shutting down businesses, as much as they are shutting down industries.

There is no question that this is a very tough period - but, I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that this is temporary (assuming we gain control of the virus).  It may take 12-18 months, but in the overall scheme of things, thats a rough patch.  Belts will be tightened.  Behaviors will be modified.  But, assuming we don't #### up the process, we will recover.

 
Not really - at least not if we get the stimulus package right.

There will be a point in the future where people are going back to work.  Many businesses are still operating today - albeit with skeleton staffs and people working from home.  But this is a "pause" not a complete shut-down.  

And, if this were really just about saving the "economy" the easy solution is to simply tax the wealthy, and redistribute that wealth to keep the economy afloat.  But, I suspect you won't find many people advocating for that...
Yes, really.  Some of them are already cooked due to cash flow problems. The stimulus package won’t be able to save a lot of small businesses.

 
Yes, really.  Some of them are already cooked due to cash flow problems. The stimulus package won’t be able to save a lot of small businesses.
Of course.  The alternative is...proceed as if nothing is happening?   Sounds like a lot of folks just want to ignore the reality of this pandemic  or, worse. 

 
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Yes, really.  Some of them are already cooked due to cash flow problems. The stimulus package won’t be able to save a lot of small businesses.
Lets be real then - a business that can't recover from a month of lost revenues, is probably like the patient described above who has 3 conditions and Covid.

Will it be tough - absolutely.  This is the single biggest disruption to the economy in our lifetimes.  People will be adversely affected - many already are.

But, if the medical professionals are right - opening up the country again, will have a far greater long-term negative impact on the economy, than making the hard choice to shut down for a month now.

So, its not simply a matter of balancing the two interests - you have to be 100% right to make the call to encourage people to mingle again.  Otherwise, you kill people and the economy.

 
They, um, can do it some more....

Bezos is worth what - 80ish Billion?

Take $40 billion, and use it to pay restaurant workers and other staff that are idle during this period.

Is it unfair to Bezos?  Sure.  But he will live.  Grandma won't.
Targeted force stock sales in the middle of a stock market crash?  I can totally seeing that pass Constitutional muster.  Good thinking!

 
Lets be real then - a business that can't recover from a month of lost revenues, is probably like the patient described above who has 3 conditions and Covid.

Will it be tough - absolutely.  This is the single biggest disruption to the economy in our lifetimes.  People will be adversely affected - many already are.

But, if the medical professionals are right - opening up the country again, will have a far greater long-term negative impact on the economy, than making the hard choice to shut down for a month now.

So, its not simply a matter of balancing the two interests - you have to be 100% right to make the call to encourage people to mingle again.  Otherwise, you kill people and the economy.
It’s clear you have never run a small business dependent on cash flow.

 
I am all for a pathway to returning to close to normal, but that includes no gatherings of more than dozens, and can only take place in tandem with rigorous testing and a mitigation strategy to isolate the infected and high risk. Pushing everyone in and letting them determine who swims or drowns is callous and reckless. 
Definitely.  The status quo is going to have to remain in place for some time, followed by some loosening.  The timing is going to be difficult.  I don’t have the answers.  Getting it wrong either way will create problems.

 
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It’s clear you have never run a small business dependent on cash flow.
:shrug:

I have run a few businesses - profitably.

I ran my own law practice for a time.

A business running on a tight margin, is always a candidate to go under when there is an underlying event to interrupts business.  I'd like to save as many as we can - in fact I would let the cruise industry sink, to spend that money to help small business owners weather the storm.

 
My favorite quote from Trump (and I wonder how long he'll continue to use it) are about how we've closed our borders. We're probably going to be the last country to solve this, the entire world will be closing their borders to us, not vice versa. We are going to be the world leaders in ####### this up.

And for any partisan hack, nothing will make me happier if I'm wrong or aquarium cleaner solves this, that just feels doubtful right now. 

 
Lucas Tomlinson

@LucasFoxNews

BREAKING: 3 U.S. Navy sailors aboard the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt in Philippine Sea have tested positive for Covid-19, marking the first time the virus has spread to an American warship at sea: U.S. officials

11:07 AM · Mar 24, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

 
:shrug:

I have run a few businesses - profitably.

I ran my own law practice for a time.

A business running on a tight margin, is always a candidate to go under when there is an underlying event to interrupts business.  I'd like to save as many as we can - in fact I would let the cruise industry sink, to spend that money to help small business owners weather the storm.
Cruise lines...maybe they can get help from whatever small island country tax shelter flag they fly. Or maybe they’re dodged enough taxes over the years to cover themselves. Not a taxpayer problem.

 
Of course.  The alternative is...proceed as if nothing is happening?   Sounds like a lot of folks just want to ignore the reality of this pandemic  or, worse. 
There are alternatives outside of proceeding as if nothing is happening.  Is that really lost on you?

 
Raring to go by Easter? That's dangerous talk right there. People are going to hear that and think things are fine. They aren't fine. Unbelievable. 
It’s not dangerous, it’s optimistic.  We really don’t know how things are going to proceed.  I would love to see some loosening of restrictions by Easter, but only time will tell.

 
This country isn’t good with handling the death of the elderly.  It’s a shortcoming that will have to be overcome if there is any shot at socialized medicine.
Hospice care has helped. With socialized medicine, people may live even longer, on average. We need to stop ordering expensive procedures, hospitalizations and drugs in many circumstances, not just for the elderly. 

BTW, we're foregoing many elective and non-essential procedures during this crisis. There'll probably be studies on how the delay of services  affected quality of life, longevity and other metrics. 

 
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