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Government Response To The Coronavirus (17 Viewers)

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timschochet said:
Some constitutional experts chime in here: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/488735-could-trump-declare-national-coronavirus-shutdown-momentum-is-rising%3famp

Bottom line is that while they’re not sure, they seriously doubt that the Supreme Court or anyone else would challenge Trump if he issued that order. 
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Well it's not just that (surprise, I'm usually skeptical of executive power), it's that Trump doesn't have the actual ability to enforce it. How would he do this? Ok so DeSantis won't do a lockdown, there's nothing Trump can do to override that as a practical matter. And again try the opposite. If Trump tells people in LA, NYS, CA, WA to go back to work and the governors say the opposite, then what? - I'm just talking law and enforcement, obviously as you say Trump wields huge influence with his followers and others.

 
The Commish said:
While I appreciate SiD's dedication to consistency and wondering if he's legally allowed to make a declaration and it be binding, it fall flat on the mountains of evidence we have that he doesn't really care about the Constitution in many instances and has no problems testing his "limits" thereof.  There are obvious reasons he's not acting, but revere for the Constitution isn't one of them IMO.  The simplest, most logical answer is "he doesn't want to get his hands dirty by making the declaration and becoming the bad guy".....basically a third grader's implementation of "plausible deniability"  
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Well obviously this is a guy who did a national emergency on an ego project that started from a campaign fantasy. So yeah.

 
GoBirds said:
Common sense would say stopping flights directly into our country from where the virus originated slowed the transmission significantly. 
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US Citizens were still coming in...after having been in China.  Slowed it sure...but to continue to just wave the travel restriction flag as this great thing he did and ignore all else is kind of funny.  Yes...the travel restrictions were good...some say probably not even strict enough...but still good.  That does not excuse the rest of the things he screwed up.  Not even close.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
The Commish said:
While I appreciate SiD's dedication to consistency and wondering if he's legally allowed to make a declaration and it be binding, it fall flat on the mountains of evidence we have that he doesn't really care about the Constitution in many instances and has no problems testing his "limits" thereof.  There are obvious reasons he's not acting, but revere for the Constitution isn't one of them IMO.  The simplest, most logical answer is "he doesn't want to get his hands dirty by making the declaration and becoming the bad guy".....basically a third grader's implementation of "plausible deniability"  
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Well obviously this is a guy who did a national emergency on an ego project that started from a campaign fantasy. So yeah.
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exactly  :lmao:  

 
jon_mx said:
Or that Trump was smart enough to negotiate and probably get concessions from the Democrats on a meaningless provision.
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Trump wasn't in on the negotiations...he had people there...but it wasn't him.  Lets stop with this...they also probably got concessions from the republicans...hence the $300 billion not accounted for in the article.

 
Ilov80s said:
Sure but he can talk with Governors and try to persuade them. Many in GOP dominated States would obviously listen. He could also just ask his supporters who love him to do it. Instead, he gives really mixed messages. The messaging is inconsistent. 
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Hit the nail on the head here.

How many of the people listened to him and others like him pushing the..."its not so bad...just the flu" narrative.  And now listen to him talking about we should be ready to go by Easter stuff...and will tune out almost everything and just assume that is the case and then go about their lives?  How many of those people tune out after he is done talking and don't listen to the Fauci's and other experts?

His rhetoric and messages aren't just mixed...at times they are sending dangerous signals.

 
Kal El said:
I'd love for it to be accurate, I can't think of anything that would make me happier at the moment. I'm certain most of us will make it through this crisis a little older and wiser, and we can appreciate the things we do have a little more. 

However, I'd rather prepare for a worst case scenario in lieu of anything in the way of hard evidence. An ounce of prevention, and all that.
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Especially since other experts are not in line with that thinking...especially with the evidence we see in Italy.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
2 TRILLION, eh?

Everyone's a socialist in a foxhole.
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I get we are in desperate type times...definitely...will this open the eyes of people enough to see the complaints about the cost of healthcare for all (or similar proposals) was not all that high to begin with?  Especially when you offset by not paying it through your employer?

 
GoBirds said:
.... Glad to see the polls reflect people seeing through the BS in here. 
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The polls reflect that for most people this is still abstract.  They don't know anyone that died from this.  They don't really know anyone sick with this.   Lets pray that over the next  few months this stays this way and we are at some point laughing about all of this rather than collectively mourning our loses.   And by loses I don't mean our 401K balances.

 
GoBirds said:
It’s more funny watching you guys on team open borders downplay and and try to pin everything on Trump like oblivious Joe would have done anything. Good to see from the polls the real world doesn’t buy the schtick in here. Enjoy your day fellas, don’t get too outraged. 
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I sincerely hope that you’re right and I’m wrong. I really do. 

 
sho nuff said:
Forget it...you know exactly what that comment was meant for...only surprising that it didn't mention amusement parks.  
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Give it a rest already.  You must have on average 6-8 posts per page in this thread doing nothing but telling them they are wrong and arguing with them and railing people for not sheltering in place.  Yet we all know what  reckless decision you made and justified it with the people involved in your decision aren't high risk showing no care for others that would be put in risk.  I mean you should seriously give it a rest and stop mucking up this thread when you aren't even doing the things you're blaming others for.  

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The polls reflect that for most people this is still abstract.  They don't know anyone that died from this.  They don't really know anyone sick with this.   Lets pray that over the next  few months this stays this way and we are at some point laughing about all of this rather than collectively mourning our loses.   And by loses I don't mean our 401K balances.
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Or it just reflects that they understand that a deadly virus like this isn't going to be contained by a politician, no matter what the "blame everything on Trump" crowd tries to force down their throat. 

 
I guess I'm not understanding how stopping people from coming in from China saved 1000s of lives. It's still here people are dying.  Seems like all it really accomplished is it delayed people dying for a few months, while during that time nothing else was really done. 

 
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GoBirds said:
Or it just reflects that they understand that a deadly virus like this isn't going to be contained by a politician, no matter what the "blame everything on Trump" crowd tries to force down their throat. 
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Replace "deadly virus" with "economy" and the polls consistently show this is not true when it comes to the president.

Replace "deadly virus" with "snow storm" and the polls consistently show this is not true when it comes to mayors and such.

So no matter how true it might be "that a deadly virus like this isn't going to be contained by a politician" it is highly doubtful that such would be reflected in polling.  Especially if the pain of loss is wide spread.   Lets pray we argue this forever because most of us never experience these losses to know.

 
Mile High said:
I guess I'm not understanding how stopping people from coming in from China saved 1000s of lives. It's still here people are dying.  Seems like all it really accomplished is it delayed people dying for a few months, while during that time nothing else was really done. 
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It doesn’t. It’s the only active step Trump took so it’s swung like a dead cat. The key point is it’s claimed he did it in “January” because that’s the first month they were on notice, but in truth it didn’t happen until February, albeit the first few days of February.

 
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GoBirds said:
Or it just reflects that they understand that a deadly virus like this isn't going to be contained by a politician, no matter what the "blame everything on Trump" crowd tries to force down their throat. 
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It can be contained by many politicians working in concert - do you think China and South Korea contained this by magic? So, when the leader of said politicians and the country does nothing and just makes things up as he goes along... well... there is quite a bit of blame there. 

 
Mile High said:
I guess I'm not understanding how stopping people from coming in from China saved 1000s of lives. It's still here people are dying.  Seems like all it really accomplished is it delayed people dying for a few months, while during that time nothing else was really done. 
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Seems like you understand it quite well. 

 
sho nuff said:
$2 Trillion   

  • $250 billion 1/8 of which goes to individuals...
  • $350 billion just over 1/8 to small business loans...
  • $250 billion 1/8 for unemployment benefits...
  • $500 billion1/4 for the bigger business loans (thankfully with more protections this time...including barring congress, the administration and other top government officials barred from receiving them)
  • $50 billion for airlines...(people may debate this...glad its not a bigger number...but still)
  • $130 billion for hospitals (glad this is bigger than the airlines
  • $150 state billion for local governments...yes definitely needed
That is all that is "detailed" in the article...$1.68 Trillion...so where is the other approximately $320 billion is the interesting question?  Which pet projects of each side wins out?

Overall...that is a massive package  (thats what she said)...glad they get some aid into those needing it...hoping it does not cripple us for years to come in other ways.
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Why are you concerned with this package crippling the economy, while you seem unconcerned and have a blank checkbook on indefinitely extending these shutdowns which has already costs us in the trillions.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It doesn’t. It’s the only active step Trump took so it’s swung like a dead cat. The key point is it’s claimed he did it in “January” because that’s the first month they were on notice, but in truth it didn’t happen until February, albeit the first few days of February.
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That Jan was the first month "on notice" still blows my mind knowing this stuff had been around since at least November.  I remember with SARS things were so much different...like 180 degree different and I bet the results will bear that out.

 
The Commish said:
That Jan was the first month "on notice" still blows my mind knowing this stuff had been around since at least November.  I remember with SARS things were so much different...like 180 degree different and I bet the results will bear that out.
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We’re never going to know the great things done to protect us from H1N1, Ebola, SARS & MERS. A lot of hidden heroes. Truth is novel viruses have been pinging us for some time now.

 
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rcam said:
It can be contained by many politicians working in concert - do you think China and South Korea contained this by magic? So, when the leader of said politicians and the country does nothing and just makes things up as he goes along... well... there is quite a bit of blame there. 
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If you believe everything you read from China and don't see the difference in China and the US I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe you are more of a Communist structure guy but I don't think you will see this country operate like that. How are we doing compared to Italy and Spain?

 
GoBirds said:
Kal El said:
By your own words, the virus was already here, so what did that vaunted travel ban actually do in the big picture? Sure, it could have kept some with the virus from entering the country, but that didn't matter by then.
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Common sense would say stopping flights directly into our country from where the virus originated slowed the transmission significantly. 
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This is only marginally helpful if we're not also stopping flights from every other country that has it, and we're not also stopping entry from every single person who was in a hotspot in the past 14 days, and we're not also screening/isolating pilots/crew members/ship captains and anyone else who has been to a hot spot in the past 14 days.

What's the point of stopping flights from China when a person can fly into Canada and pass along the virus to someone who is about to legally cross the ground border?

 
GoBirds said:
If you believe everything you read from China and don't see the difference in China and the US I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe you are more of a Communist structure guy but I don't think you will see this country operate like that. How are we doing compared to Italy and Spain?
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South Korea? Or are they just commies making up numbers as well?

 
[scooter] said:
This is only marginally helpful if we're not also stopping flights from every other country that has it, and we're not also stopping entry from every single person who was in a hotspot in the past 14 days, and we're not also screening/isolating pilots/crew members/ship captains and anyone else who has been to a hot spot in the past 14 days.

What's the point of stopping flights from China when a person can fly into Canada and pass along the virus to someone who is about to legally cross the ground border?
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US residents were allowed to fly in from China after the travel ban  IIRC. 

 
Tom Skerritt said:
[scooter] said:
This is only marginally helpful if we're not also stopping flights from every other country that has it, and we're not also stopping entry from every single person who was in a hotspot in the past 14 days, and we're not also screening/isolating pilots/crew members/ship captains and anyone else who has been to a hot spot in the past 14 days.

What's the point of stopping flights from China when a person can fly into Canada and pass along the virus to someone who is about to legally cross the ground border?
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US residents were allowed to fly in from China after the travel ban  IIRC. 
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Yep. US citizens, plus anyone with a green card, plus foreign nationals who happened to be relatives of US residents. Not to mention all the foreign pilots and crewmembers allowed to infect their planes. Not to mention the lag between the announcement and the actual cutoff, allowing untold numbers of people to hop on planes and come on over without screening them.

 
jon_mx said:
Why are you concerned with this package crippling the economy, while you seem unconcerned and have a blank checkbook on indefinitely extending these shutdowns which has already costs us in the trillions.  
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I didn't say economy...I said crippling us...as in more debt.

So your message here is directed incorrectly.

 
Trump cabinet bible study leader now blaming god’s reaping wrath in response to the coronavirus on China, environmentalism, and homosexuality. 
 

ETA: No big surprise here. This response was just a matter of time. 

 
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