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Government Response To The Coronavirus (4 Viewers)

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sho nuff said:
Except that dod socially isolate...I believe it was Sinn that posted multiple things the last  you made the claims about Japan.

Experts also were sort of stunned by Japan leading people to think they were fudging numbers to try and keep thenOlympics on schedule.
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Japan restaurants and bars stayed open and even baseball games resumed albeit without the large crowds.  You can be successful without shutting down.  

 
jon_mx said:
Because people turn it off when the reporting is too one-sided.  
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Isn't this an incentive for Trump to do more deception? Isn't this the reason he does it? He games journalism by killing the meaning of truth and its effect. You're just speaking a truism here, you just seem to be putting the onus on the press for reflexively doing its job.

 
jon_mx said:
Japan restaurants and bars stayed open and even baseball games resumed albeit without the large crowds.  You can be successful without shutting down.  
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South Korea didn't shut down either.  But they did test the heck out of everyone and isolate those that were sick or were in contact with anyone sick.  We are long past the point of no return on that front.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Isn't this an incentive for Trump to do more deception? Isn't this the reason he does it? He games journalism by killing the meaning of truth and its effect. You're just speaking a truism here, you just seem to be putting the onus on the press for reflexively doing its job.
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Well yes, Trump is winning the game.  And when tactics are not working, maybe it is time to think about a new approach.

 
KPD said:
South Korea didn't shut down either.  But they did test the heck out of everyone and isolate those that were sick or were in contact with anyone sick.  We are long past the point of no return on that front.
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Hotspots may be passed that point, but for 90 percent of the rest of us, we are not passed such a point.  We need an effective game plan to do such.  

 
Widbil83 said:
President Trump’s daily White House coronavirus briefings are a ratings hit.

The president, who has taken the lead in the task force’s daily updates to the nation, has attracted an average audience of about 8.5 million viewers on cable news — about the number of viewers who watched the season finale of “The Bachelor,” The New York Times reported on Wednesday, citing Nielsen numbers.
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Unsurprisingly it ends with the tv reality show celebrity president being comped with a reality show.

Unsurprisingly people facing a life/death crisis tune in together to watch government and medical officials deliver information. Unfortunately the president has turned it into one of his media maximization games. He consumes the oxygen on the dais and every moment he consumes the press in turmoil and every moment he oversteps some government (Giroir, Long) official or medical (Fauci, Birx) expert means an increase in his exposure and a limitation on the valuable information that the people need and receive.

 
KPD said:
What is dangerous about asking questions (including criticism and even bashing) about how our government officials, especially the President, are governing the country?  That is in fact the whole reason a free press is important.
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And less dangerous than Trumps rhetoric from the beginning about this virus.

 
jon_mx said:
Hotspots may be passed that point, but for 90 percent of the rest of us, we are not passed such a point.  We need an effective game plan to do such.  
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I wonder who should be providing that game plan?

You know what, I don't really like how the stock market is going, let's just stop the virus planning stuff and open the country back up for business on Easter.

 
jon_mx said:
Hotspots may be passed that point, but for 90 percent of the rest of us, we are not passed such a point.  We need an effective game plan to do such.  
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There is no game plan until we have effective, timely, and available testing.  Even today, that doesn't exist.  That means continued social distancing is the only option.

 
I have a question for the "Get Back to Work" crowd - it seems like the restaurant industry has been disproportionately hit by this shut down.

Are you suggesting that people should be going back to restaurants, wearing masks?  Would you feel safe going to a restaurant where the staff are all wearing masks for protection?  That seems a little odd, to me.

And, would you wear your mask into the restaurant?  If so, how are you eating?  If you tell me you would take it off to eat - why wear it at all?  You are either protected, or you are not.... 

 
KPD said:
South Korea didn't shut down either.  But they did test the heck out of everyone and isolate those that were sick or were in contact with anyone sick.  We are long past the point of no return on that front.
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Correct.  So we aren't isolating like other countries who are starting to see a flattening.  We aren't doing the testing and retesting that other countries are doing to stop this from getting as bad in the first place.   I just don't understand what exactly people think we are doing well enough that we are going to be better than the examples that the countries that have gone through this have provided us. 

To me it seems like we are at the point as a whole where it's still a coastal problem (kinda like it was a China problem about a month ago), we did some half assed measures for a week (if that), but now it's time to get back at it.  

 
Sinn Fein said:
I have a question for the "Get Back to Work" crowd - it seems like the restaurant industry has been disproportionately hit by this shut down.

Are you suggesting that people should be going back to restaurants, wearing masks?  Would you feel safe going to a restaurant where the staff are all wearing masks for protection?  That seems a little odd, to me.

And, would you wear your mask into the restaurant?  If so, how are you eating?  If you tell me you would take it off to eat - why wear it at all?  You are either protected, or you are not.... 
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I can only speak for my situation, but our area is allowing restaurants to remain open for carryout/drive thru/curb side only. I've been going out of my way to pick a locally owned spot and phoning ahead a to-go order each day for dinner. You wouldn't believe how grateful they are to see you. They need the business now more than ever, and I feel like that's the appropriate thing to do right now. I personally don't know anyone who is of the mindset that we should be asking them to serve us at a table with a crowded dining room right now.

 
jon_mx said:
Japan restaurants and bars stayed open and even baseball games resumed albeit without the large crowds.  You can be successful without shutting down.  
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Except they shut baseball down first...as was already explained to you.  Schools shut down almost immediately.  And to date they have not tested all that many (14,000) Japan continues to be an outlier and people continue to question their numbers based on that and based in their previous mistruths with Fukushima.

In addition their social culture of bows vs handshakes and use of masks regularly anyway has helped...but it seems their numbers may not be very trustworthy.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I have a question for the "Get Back to Work" crowd - it seems like the restaurant industry has been disproportionately hit by this shut down.

Are you suggesting that people should be going back to restaurants, wearing masks?  Would you feel safe going to a restaurant where the staff are all wearing masks for protection?  That seems a little odd, to me.

And, would you wear your mask into the restaurant?  If so, how are you eating?  If you tell me you would take it off to eat - why wear it at all?  You are either protected, or you are not.... 
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This country needs to get over their taboo on masks.  Masks help reduce the spread of respiratory disease.  Everyone should be wearing them in public.  It's not a 100% or nothing scenario.  Some protection, for all of the time you aren't actively eating, is better than just saying screw it and breathing, coughing, sneezing into the open air.

I'd feel way safer eating in a restaurant where everyone is masked and all of the coughs you hear are at least behind something.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Isn't this an incentive for Trump to do more deception? Isn't this the reason he does it? He games journalism by killing the meaning of truth and its effect. You're just speaking a truism here, you just seem to be putting the onus on the press for reflexively doing its job.
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Yes. Throw a ton of crap at the wall and when people criticize...claim thats all they do.  Hope they don't grab in to the most egregious stuff. Rinse and repeat.

 
jon_mx said:
Hotspots may be passed that point, but for 90 percent of the rest of us, we are not passed such a point.  We need an effective game plan to do such.  
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I am not sure where you live, but I posted in the other thread that in my podunk WI town outside of Madison last week in 2 days I served people from NY, NC, Colorado, and college team from Ohio.  One of our employees returned from spring break in FL, and a former employee who lives in Tenn now stopped to say hi.    I have stopped asking because I don't want to know now.  

Yes, there are a lot of states that aren't past the point of no return, but it's not like we have even isolated NYC and the area for starters, and it is in every state now.  The effective game plan has been shown to us - mass amounts of testing and isolating sick people (which we are woefully behind on and probably past the point to implement that), or social isolation for a few weeks, which people also don't seem to be able to do and you seem to be against us doing.  

 
sho nuff said:
Except they shut baseball down first...as was already explained to you.  Schools shut down almost immediately.  And to date they have not tested all that many (14,000) Japan continues to be an outlier and people continue to question their numbers based on that and based in their previous mistruths with Fukushima.

In addition their social culture of bows vs handshakes and use of masks regularly anyway has helped...but it seems their numbers may not be very trustworthy.
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And so do we shut baseball down.  I know that.  I was pointing to the fact they re-opened things in a smart fashion.  Something the 'close-down everything' crowd does not want to consider.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I have a question for the "Get Back to Work" crowd - it seems like the restaurant industry has been disproportionately hit by this shut down.

Are you suggesting that people should be going back to restaurants, wearing masks?  Would you feel safe going to a restaurant where the staff are all wearing masks for protection?  That seems a little odd, to me.

And, would you wear your mask into the restaurant?  If so, how are you eating?  If you tell me you would take it off to eat - why wear it at all?  You are either protected, or you are not.... 
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The people who are promoting this idea won't actually go to a restaurant themselves, they just want to see others do it.  Sort of like the guy who never goes to church wanting to see crowded churches on Easter.

 
KarmaPolice said:
Exactly.   So I don't get why that was brought up.   Yes, there are countries that are stopping this thing relatively quickly, and people sometimes bring them up as though we also are doing those things or are willing to do those things.  Neither of those seem to be true in the US.  
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To keep from admitting to being wrong 2 weeks ago when they criticized the shutting down and cancelling large events...to continue to act correct about us shutting down too much now.  Basically by ignoring the medical experts.

 
KarmaPolice said:
I am not sure where you live, but I posted in the other thread that in my podunk WI town outside of Madison last week in 2 days I served people from NY, NC, Colorado, and college team from Ohio.  One of our employees returned from spring break in FL, and a former employee who lives in Tenn now stopped to say hi.    I have stopped asking because I don't want to know now.  

Yes, there are a lot of states that aren't past the point of no return, but it's not like we have even isolated NYC and the area for starters, and it is in every state now.  The effective game plan has been shown to us - mass amounts of testing and isolating sick people (which we are woefully behind on and probably past the point to implement that), or social isolation for a few weeks, which people also don't seem to be able to do and you seem to be against us doing.  
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I am not against social isolation for a few weeks.  I am against an indefinite period of social isolation which many seem to advocate.  We need to plan for re-opening while putting precautions in place.  

 
KPD said:
This country needs to get over their taboo on masks.  Masks help reduce the spread of respiratory disease.  Everyone should be wearing them in public.  It's not a 100% or nothing scenario.  Some protection, for all of the time you aren't actively eating, is better than just saying screw it and breathing, coughing, sneezing into the open air.

I'd feel way safer eating in a restaurant where everyone is masked and all of the coughs you hear are at least behind something.
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Agree 100%. But, some hospital-based physician practices in the Miami area have told medical assistants not to wear masks, in order to save them when they're "really" needed. I was surprised when they told me that.

 
Go DC Yourself said:
The people who are promoting this idea won't actually go to a restaurant themselves, they just want to see others do it.  Sort of like the guy who never goes to church wanting to see crowded churches on Easter.
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I pick up food about every other day from restaurants, always our smaller local ones.  

 
RnR said:
I can only speak for my situation, but our area is allowing restaurants to remain open for carryout/drive thru/curb side only. I've been going out of my way to pick a locally owned spot and phoning ahead a to-go order each day for dinner. You wouldn't believe how grateful they are to see you. They need the business now more than ever, and I feel like that's the appropriate thing to do right now. I personally don't know anyone who is of the mindset that we should be asking them to serve us at a table with a crowded dining room right now.
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Same here some of our favorite spots are hurting.  We go once a week to get carryout if we can and have bought a few gift certificates for later use.

My wife has still been wary about the food even though doctors have basically okayed takeout and delivery.  I put her at ease by throwing it in the oven for a few minutes the other day with pizza (as the place isn't super close and it wasn't as hot when we get home with it anyway).  Is 3 minutes at 425 going to kill everything if she really felt worried about it on food?  I don’t  know, but it had the right psychological effect.

And here it seems even more important for people to help local places as they were the ones out donating food after the tornadoes. No telling how much their bottom line has taken a hit for a month now.

 
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zoonation said:
There are several factors that make Japan unique.   And, it could be the case they were underreporting to save the games.

either way, not a good comparison for America.  At all.  
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Asian countries were way ahead of us for practicing individual responsibility.  They have been wearing masks for years in public during flu season, especially those infected.   But I really believe this situation has educated a lot of people in other parts of the world into why such behavior is  important and I see people in this country acting much more responsibly.

 
jon_mx said:
I am not against social isolation for a few weeks.  I am against an indefinite period of social isolation which many seem to advocate.  We need to plan for re-opening while putting precautions in place.  
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jon_mx:  We need to reopen stuff so we don't kill our economy.

Others:  Social distancing is working.  Now isn't the time to stop.

jon_mx:  Not now.  Once we have precautions in place.

Others:  Precautions aren't in place yet.

jon_mx:  They will be.

Others:  When?

jon_mx:  Later.

Others:  Perfect.  Let's discuss reopening once we know when precautions will be in place.

jon_mx:  But we can't continue like this indefinitely!

Edit to add:  No offense, but that's how this entire line of argument comes across on the other end.  The precautions aren't in place today and we don't have any indication when they will be.  Until then, it is premature to discuss ending the one thing that may actually be working in our favor.

 
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jon_mx said:
And so do we shut baseball down.  I know that.  I was pointing to the fact they re-opened things in a smart fashion.  Something the 'close-down everything' crowd does not want to consider.
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And you ignore their lack of testing, their cultural differences and obedience, as well as the valid questions of their overall numbers to keep pushing the narrative that the outlier in all of this did less and got better results.

 
sho nuff said:
And you ignore their lack of testing, their cultural differences and obedience, as well as the valid questions of their overall numbers to keep pushing the narrative that the outlier in all of this did less and got better results.
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I am not ignoring anything.  We need to start planning and putting expected behavior changes in place.  

 
Rich Conway said:
jon_mx:  We need to reopen stuff so we don't kill our economy.

Others:  Social distancing is working.  Now isn't the time to stop.

jon_mx:  Not now.  Once we have precautions in place.

Others:  Precautions aren't in place yet.

jon_mx:  They will be.

Others:  When?

jon_mx:  Later.

Others:  Perfect.  Let's discuss reopening once we know when precautions will be in place.

jon_mx:  But we can't continue like this indefinitely!

Edit to add:  No offense, but that's how this entire line of argument comes across on the other end.  The precautions aren't in place today and we don't have any indication when they will be.  Until then, it is premature to discuss ending the one thing that may actually be working in our favor.
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His entire thinking presumes a federal gov't staffed at the top with competent experts.  A voluntary choice not to have it so staffed was made in 2016-17 and it has gotten worse since then.  So, itt's not staffed, and where it is staffed it has few experts.  Thus the ad hoc response on a state and local basis.  So any planning for reopening will occur at that level as well.

 
Rich Conway said:
jon_mx:  We need to reopen stuff so we don't kill our economy.

Others:  Social distancing is working.  Now isn't the time to stop.

jon_mx:  Not now.  Once we have precautions in place.

Others:  Precautions aren't in place yet.

jon_mx:  They will be.

Others:  When?

jon_mx:  Later.

Others:  Perfect.  Let's discuss reopening once we know when precautions will be in place.

jon_mx:  But we can't continue like this indefinitely!

Edit to add:  No offense, but that's how this entire line of argument comes across on the other end.  The precautions aren't in place today and we don't have any indication when they will be.  Until then, it is premature to discuss ending the one thing that may actually be working in our favor.
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Your characterization is utterly ridiculous, but will receive many likes here because this forum lacks any balance in intellectual honesty....but in other news

John Hopkins has rated the US #1 in the world in preparedness for epidemics.  

 
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jon_mx said:
I am not against social isolation for a few weeks.  I am against an indefinite period of social isolation which many seem to advocate.  We need to plan for re-opening while putting precautions in place.  
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I guess I have seen nobody advocating for an indefinite period of social isolation.  

Maybe I need you to define that so I know what you mean.   What I have seen is we should have social isolated and shut down more than we have for 2-3 week WITH a plan in place to help people and businesses during that time.  At that time implement as much WFH, limiting large groups, etc..    Problem is we have done neither - we can barely do the social isolate thing, and we for sure didn't have a plan in place.    IMO we have hurt the economy so much more by being wishy washy as a country by not being decisive from the start and/or having testing.   Now we people who have been out of a job for a week +, still haven't locked much down, and we are still staring at handfuls of hotspots that could be a huge problem.  

Again, I still fail to see where you are coming from when you say we are handling any of this well.  

 
jon_mx said:
Rich Conway said:
jon_mx:  We need to reopen stuff so we don't kill our economy.

Others:  Social distancing is working.  Now isn't the time to stop.

jon_mx:  Not now.  Once we have precautions in place.

Others:  Precautions aren't in place yet.

jon_mx:  They will be.

Others:  When?

jon_mx:  Later.

Others:  Perfect.  Let's discuss reopening once we know when precautions will be in place.

jon_mx:  But we can't continue like this indefinitely!

Edit to add:  No offense, but that's how this entire line of argument comes across on the other end.  The precautions aren't in place today and we don't have any indication when they will be.  Until then, it is premature to discuss ending the one thing that may actually be working in our favor.
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Your characterization is utterly ridiculous, but will receive many likes here because this forum lacks any balance in intellectual honesty.
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As I said, this is how it comes across.  I'm willing to try to understand where it's incorrect.

What precautions?  When will they be in place?

 
jon_mx said:
I am not ignoring anything.  We need to start planning and putting expected behavior changes in place.  
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Yes. When you try to prop up Japan without admitting the complete differences and questions about them...you ignore quite a bit.

Yes. A plan in place would be great...it isn't going to happen here and I dont trust Trump or his made up timelines at this point.

Its also likely to be regional more on the mayoral level (as I also trust our mayor right now more than our governor and his inaction.

 
jon_mx said:
I am not ignoring anything.  We need to start planning and putting expected behavior changes in place.  
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Who is going to perform this "planning?" What experts? What agencies or organizations? What will the plan be? Who do you trust right now in government to make the correct plan knowing that if it is incorrect,  it could cost you/ your loved ones their lives? 

And what segment of the public do you trust to carry out said plan? To act in the best interests of everyone,  not just themselves?

 
Herb said:
Who is going to perform this "planning?" What experts? What agencies or organizations? What will the plan be? Who do you trust right now in government to make the correct plan knowing that if it is incorrect,  it could cost you/ your loved ones their lives? 

And what segment of the public do you trust to carry out said plan? To act in the best interests of everyone,  not just themselves?
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Yes. I dont want planning left up to the same people who said this was just the flu...no big deal...to those who were against shutting down large events...to those who downplayed this from the beginning.

 
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sho nuff said:
Yes. I dint want planning left up to the same people who said this was just the flu...no big deal...to those who were against shutting down large events...to those who downplayed this from the beginning.
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We really have no other choice.  Trump isn't inclined to bring in people who might tell him what he is doing wrong.  He already got rid of a bunch of those.

 
Rich Conway said:
As I said, this is how it comes across.  I'm willing to try to understand where it's incorrect.

What precautions?  When will they be in place?
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It is how dishonest partisans characterize it.  You ignore the irrational sensationalized points on one side and exaggerate my points.   

 
jon_mx said:
It is how dishonest partisans characterize it.  You ignore the irrational sensationalized points on one side and exaggerate my points.   
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I'm neither dishonest nor partisan.  I'm legitimately asking which piece is a mischaracterization, and I stated as much in the edit to the post.

 
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