Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
James Daulton

Government Response To The Coronavirus

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I made this exact argument 3 weeks ago, but it was flawed. It doesn’t work. 

There are two major problems with it: first, the mortality rate among old people, and those with pre-existing conditions like diabetes is too high. The numbers are an unacceptable price for spreading the disease. 

Second, the amount of people who would need life saving machines like ventilators is too high; it would (and already does) swamp our hospitals making them far less accessible to other patients with serious issues such as cancer. This is also an unacceptable price to pay. 

As bad as things are, there is no alternative to hunkering down until we cure this or until it goes away. I understand why a lot of people, including the President, don’t want to accept this but there doesn’t seem to be any other way out. 

Agree that we need to flatten the curve and it's the best thing we can do right now.  But at some point we're going to have to put that high risk portion of the population at risk.  Dr. Fauci is saying there should be three cycles to this and it will be back in the Fall and then again in the Winter/Spring season.  Hopefully there will be some effective treatment plans by the second cycle.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Curious how many deaths in a day it will take for the "wait and see" people to get fully on board?

The US was at 268 deaths Thursday and 400 yesterday.  Total deaths are doubling every three days.  

So what's your number?  At what point do you abandon the idea that this is anything other than a full blown crisis that should be/should have been met by the strongest reaction the US can/could have mustered?

5,000 in a day?  20,000?  Is there *any* point where you change your thinking?

The only people i see NOT taking this seriously are the young people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Another thing I would do if I were President right now: I would call a meeting of banks and urge them to adopt a national 2 month moratorium on all mortgages. Then I would publicly urge all landlords to have a 2 month moratorium on all rental payments. Then I would ask the utility companies to do the same. Basically I would call on the nation to suspend all regular monthly payments for 60 days. This is essentially what FDR did at the start of his Presidency when the Great Depression was at its worst and we were facing complete collapse of the economy. 

I like your thinking.  Some big banks did that on their own I believe for California mortgages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Yep.  :thumbup:

Sweet.  Glad we agree!  

Now since we are off to a good foot this fine afternoon can we also agree the POTUS should lead in these efforts.  You know, like leaders do?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

The only people i see NOT taking this seriously are the young people. 

Around here I see more old people out and about than young people.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

My whole point is about whether hospitals will be overrun. This is a presumed scenario based on the first model anybody came up with. Legitimate scientists are thinking maybe this would not happen. Follow up research should be done; like the UK is investing in finger-##### tests which can tell how many people have already got it and have the antibodies.

But I think it's a good idea to try to limit exposure and spread of the virus right now. Our scientific efforts tho should be to further research development. I don't know that we are trying to do that. I guess we can just wait for the Europeans to do it. 

 

Are you being serious or is this shtick?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Sweet.  Glad we agree!  

Now since we are off to a good foot this fine afternoon can we also agree the POTUS should lead in these efforts.  You know, like leaders do?  

Yep!   :thumbup:

The good news is that despite a slow start he has been leading in these efforts since.

  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

As bad as things are, there is no alternative to hunkering down until we cure this or until it goes away. I understand why a lot of people, including the President, don’t want to accept this but there doesn’t seem to be any other way out. 

The original Imperial model might be flawed, see my post above. Real scientists are raising issue with it. Hunkering down might seem like the only option to you right now, but whether or not the dire predictions we thought from the very first model somebody came up with, absolutely should be looked into. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, shader said:

Are you being serious or is this shtick?

Any more models other than the one done by the Imperial College of London you want to share with us? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Around here I see more old people out and about than young people.  

Yep. Old people in WI think this isnt serious apparently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Yep!   :thumbup:

The good news is that despite a slow start he has been leading in these efforts since.

His tone has changed. Maybe he is listening to the scientists and not his feelings at this point?

I love Tim's ideas on suspension of  payments.  

We put specific rules on how food/prescriptions will be obtained and shut this place down for 30 days. It should have been done two weeks ago.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Any more models other than the one done by the Imperial College of London you want to share with us? 

Well there is the real life example of New York hospitals having to attach one ventilator to 2 people because they’ve run out. That would seem to be evidence to me that the modeling was accurate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

His tone has changed. Maybe he is listening to the scientists and not his feelings at this point?

I love Tim's ideas on suspension of  payments.  

We put specific rules on how food/prescriptions will be obtained and shut this place down for 30 days. It should have been done two weeks ago.   

His tone has changed but it keeps changing back and forth. He has business people calling him urging him not to let the economy fall apart. I get that. I really do. I don’t believe this is a competent leader, but on the other hand he’s faced with some decisions no other President has had to make. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well there is the real life example of New York hospitals having to attach one ventilator to 2 people because they’ve run out. That would seem to be evidence to me that the modeling was accurate. 

Yeah, they are testing that out from what I've read 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

His tone has changed but it keeps changing back and forth. He has business people calling him urging him not to let the economy fall apart. I get that. I really do. I don’t believe this is a competent leader, but on the other hand he’s faced with some decisions no other President has had to make. 

I agree, but he has every opportunity to not go with his gut and listen to the real experts with potentially better results across the board imo.

Edited by Osaurus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, cloppbeast said:

Yeah, they are testing that out from what I've read 

You think they’re testing it just for the hell of it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well there is the real life example of New York hospitals having to attach one ventilator to 2 people because they’ve run out. That would seem to be evidence to me that the modeling was accurate. 

Cuomo did his daily news conference today and said he has ventilators in reserve that he hasn't needed to used yet.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You think they’re testing it just for the hell of it? 

So them testing 2 ventilators for 1 person is enough to prove the original forecast correct?

Edited by cloppbeast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Osaurus said:

I agree, but he has every opportunity to not go with his gut and listen to the real experts with potentially better results across the board imo.

According to Dr. Fauci, that's what he has done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Snotbubbles said:

According to Dr. Fauci, that's what he has done.

Eventually, yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dangerous thinking on display in here when clearly knowledge posters being asked to “prove it” to the uninformed. That’s a main cause of the problem of ignorance that we’re facing in the country and why so many just feel like they can go on without doing their part. Which is simply to stay at home. Unreal.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, cloppbeast said:

So them testing 2 ventilators for 1 person is enough to prove the original forecast correct?

It suggests that we’re going to run out of ventilators. Which suggests that without flattening the curve hospitals will be overwhelmed. So I would say yeah it does. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You think they’re testing it just for the hell of it? 

Cuomo said they are paying $45K for ventilators and "he doesn't want to pay that".  So if you project you need 30,000 ventilators but you can use one ventilator for 2 people, then it changes the projections on the total amount of ventilators you need from 30,000 to 15,000 and it also changes the costs.   

EDIT: I'm not a ventilator expert so I don't know the difference between a 1 person ventilator and a 2 person ventilator.  Apparently they used them in military field hospitals.  I suspect it would be more like a last resort move than a plan.

Edited by Snotbubbles
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Snotbubbles said:

Cuomo said they are paying $45K for ventilators and "he doesn't want to pay that".  So if you project you need 30,000 ventilators but you can use one ventilator for 2 people, then it changes the projections on the total amount of ventilators you need from 30,000 to 15,000 and it also changes the costs.   

That’s fine. It doesn’t really have bearing on my point though. Which is that we can’t afford to stop sheltering in place at the current time. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, timschochet said:

That’s fine. It doesn’t really have bearing on my point though. Which is that we can’t afford to stop sheltering in place at the current time. 

 

Don't disagree.  There isn't really a valid reason to throw caution to the wind and go back to normal life.  Just shelter in place for another 6-8 weeks.  Think we'll be better prepared in the Fall for the second wave.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Another thing I would do if I were President right now: I would call a meeting of banks and urge them to adopt a national 2 month moratorium on all mortgages. Then I would publicly urge all landlords to have a 2 month moratorium on all rental payments. Then I would ask the utility companies to do the same. Basically I would call on the nation to suspend all regular monthly payments for 60 days. This is essentially what FDR did at the start of his Presidency when the Great Depression was at its worst and we were facing complete collapse of the economy. 

It is really the Federal government that holds most of the mortgages in this country...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Any more models other than the one done by the Imperial College of London you want to share with us? 

Check the number of people dying in the USA and the reports from hospitals right now. Don’t be ignorant

  • Like 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The charts...

Good news is infections are turning towards doubling every 3 days instead of two...bad news is deaths have pushed to the left consistently over the last several days close to crossing the line (and the slope there definitely not looking great).

This isn’t a one day trend....its been ongoing.

Edited by sho nuff
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

Cuomo said they are paying $45K for ventilators and "he doesn't want to pay that".  So if you project you need 30,000 ventilators but you can use one ventilator for 2 people, then it changes the projections on the total amount of ventilators you need from 30,000 to 15,000 and it also changes the costs.   

EDIT: I'm not a ventilator expert so I don't know the difference between a 1 person ventilator and a 2 person ventilator.  Apparently they used them in military field hospitals.  I suspect it would be more like a last resort move than a plan.

I'm pretty sure splitting the ventilators is a last resort option that is very risky.   i'm no expert either but from what I hear ventilators are calibrated to each person based on how much oxygen they need.  When you split them you can't do that.  Nobody's going to do it just to save money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

Years and years of research is different than reacting to a worse-case-scenario without following up. We've known about this virus not even 4 monthes, only using the first model somebody came up with is not science.

So you are suggesting then that we should have let this just play out and see what happens? That's pure insanity...

Does that apply with every new pandemic or only the ones you deem worthy (because the scientists are mostly siding the opposite of what you are saying)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very proud of the job the Navy did in rushing the needed maintenance for the US Comfort.  It’s leaving port today and could be in NY by Monday.  It’s this type of effort that will help us beat this crisis.  We live in the greatest country in the world, and we have the most dedicated and hard working military personnel in the world.  We just need to thank them more!

  • Like 6
  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, killface said:

So you are suggesting then that we should have let this just play out and see what happens? That's pure insanity...

Does that apply with every new pandemic or only the ones you deem worthy (because the scientists are mostly siding the opposite of what you are saying)

No that's not what I'm saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kevrunner said:

That reporter was asking if Trump could “guarantee”, it went back and forth and finally Trump got frustrated and resorted to the “cutie pie” remark.  The reporter was just trying to trap Trump, no way any reasonable person would think that Trump could “guarantee” this with the shortages that are happening across the country.  Trump was describing the steps being taken to increase the number of ventilators, but it wasn’t good enough for the reporter.

While I agree that the media are generally a bunch of clowns and will do anything to make Trump look bad (which he doesn't need any help doing), this isn't the time to be getting snarky with the media and trying to clown them.  Trump's bashing of the media appeals to a lot of people, which I get, and even I, despite not being a Trump supporter, think it's funny sometimes, since I think almost as little of the media as I do of Trump, but, again, with the crisis going on in the world right now, Trump needs to stop being petty and maybe act a little presidential for once.  It ain't gonna happen, but it sure would be a refreshing change.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

My whole point is about whether hospitals will be overrun. This is a presumed scenario based on the first model anybody came up with. Legitimate scientists are thinking maybe this would not happen. Follow up research should be done; like the UK is investing in finger-##### tests which can tell how many people have already got it and have the antibodies.

 

If we are curious if hospitals can be overrun, all we have to do is ask the Italians.  Or, maybe, doctors in Wuhan.  The Spanish might have something to say, as do New Yorkers.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, moleculo said:

If we are curious if hospitals can be overrun, all we have to do is ask the Italians.  Or, maybe, doctors in Wuhan.  The Spanish might have something to say, as do New Yorkers.

:goodposting:

Thank you. Let's not ignore the evidence of our eyes amd ears, of scientists, epidemiologists, of actual conditions observable in order to say "It's only one study". It's like the "the science is not settled about climate change" except perhaps worse

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jonessed said:

Gallup has him at 60%.  There really isn’t a need to grab obscure pollsters.

Harris/Hill poll shows a drop from 56 to 50 on his handling of the pandemic

Interestingly, I didn't just "grab" this one (or the other) - it amazingly fell into my Twitter feed without prompting.

 

Edited by McBokonon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, moleculo said:

If we are curious if hospitals can be overrun, all we have to do is ask the Italians.  Or, maybe, doctors in Wuhan.  The Spanish might have something to say, as do New Yorkers.

Italy isn't a great test case for the US.  Italy only has 12.5 ICU beds per 100,000 people.  The US has 34.7 ICU beds per 100,000.  Also, the median age in Italy is 45.5.  The US is 38.1.  So Italy has an older population and lacks the same medical ICU capabilities the US has.  Italy also only had 3,000 ventilators.  The US has some 60,000-150,000 (depending on the source) with many more coming.  I don't trust the number from China, but they only have 3 ICU beds per 100,000 people so they really shouldn't be a comparison either.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

married a woman who doesn't clean the house or put out and you eat hot pockets for dinner because she won't cook.

were you wearing your wife beater when you wrote that?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, msommer said:

:goodposting:

Thank you. Let's not ignore the evidence of our eyes amd ears, of scientists, epidemiologists, of actual conditions observable in order to say "It's only one study". It's like the "the science is not settled about climate change" except perhaps worse

I've already pointed out we discovered this virus 4 monthes ago. And you guys think we have it all figured out already...

And there other, you know, scientists questioning the validity of the some of the assumptions we have about covid19. I've posted the links in this thread. I'm sure none of you read them because the science is already settled. Whatever though.

Edited by cloppbeast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, shader said:

I didn't really appreciate your post in the other forum.  The issue in that forum is that only positive Trump news can be posted there.  The moment someone writes anything that can be construed as negative, it's labelled as "political" and I have no doubt that a host of people report the post, which brings in the admins to tell us to bring it to the political forum.

But you can't have it both ways.  If we can't talk about negative Trump news in that forum, we shouldn't talk about positive news either.  That thread should not be a place where some alternate version of the truth about Trump is allowed to flourish because we can't speak negatively about him, especially when he's making so many terrible decisions.

 

Wat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Curious how many deaths in a day it will take for the "wait and see before we overreact" people to get fully on board?

The US was at 268 deaths Thursday and 400 yesterday.  Total deaths are doubling every three days.  

So what's your number?  At what point do you abandon the idea that this is anything other than a full blown crisis that should be/should have been met by the strongest reaction the US can/could have mustered?

5,000 in a day?  20,000?  Is there *any* point where you change your thinking?

Oh there are still people expecting us to "eat crow" because it is all a liberal media overreaction. They are just that much smarter than us.

  • Thinking 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Smack Tripper said:

So Rhode Island is going to go door to door to find NYers

burn the witches

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

I've already pointed out we discovered this virus 4 monthes ago. And you guys think we have it all figured out already...

And there other, you know, scientists questioning the validity of the some of the assumptions we have about covid19. I've posted the links in this thread. I'm sure none of you read them because the science is already settled. Whatever though.

I'm sure that's very comforting to the 400 people who died yesterday.  They should probably suck it up because hey, its probably the flu?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

This is a government's response to corona virus thread, not a bash Trump thread.

I don't think this is a bad point.

The CDC's actions early on are worth noting, but then it was directed by someone Trump appointed (Jon made a claim about Azar really being the culprit there but I dunno), and then there's the disappearing of Messonnier from this whole thing. Where is the CDC in the press conferences? If we're speaking of the federal response unfortunately all roads to lead back to Trump.

However I'll say locally I'm thrilled with our governor's response, thank goodness it's him in charge and not his opponent. I think even people who voted against him feel that way right now, the man is ably qualified for this crisis. Having a good governor makes a big difference. Unfortunately the federalization of our system these last few decades means that the states even still are very dependent on federal coordination.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I'm sure that's very comforting to the 400 people who died yesterday.  They should probably suck it up because hey, its probably the flu?

Ok, I'll bite.... People die everyday, a lot more than 400 in fact. Maybe we could shut down the economy forever, never travel outside our villages so people would live forever. What do you say?

Btw, did you read the articles I posted?

Edited by cloppbeast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Ok, I'll bite.... People die everyday, a lot more than 400 in fact. Maybe we could shut down the economy forever, never travel outside our villages so people would live forever. What do you say?

Btw, did you read the articles I posted?

You know people died from other stuff yesterday too?  The 400 CV deaths is on top of that.  We aren't far from a thousand americans dying from this every day - we will cross that threshold this week.  Is that a number that will get your attention?

No, i didn't read your articles.  I'm not in an article reading mood today.  Do they talk about how its likely hundreds of thousands of people have it now, and that means the CFR is lower than earlier models suggest? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, song said:

burn the witches

They turned me into a newt.

  • Like 1
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I don't think this is a bad point.

The CDC's actions early on are worth noting, but then it was directed by someone Trump appointed (Jon made a claim about Azar really being the culprit there but I dunno), and then there's the disappearing of Messonnier from this whole thing. Where is the CDC in the press conferences? If we're speaking of the federal response unfortunately all roads to lead back to Trump.

However I'll say locally I'm thrilled with our governor's response, thank goodness it's him in charge and not his opponent. I think even people who voted against him feel that way right now, the man is ably qualified for this crisis. Having a good governor makes a big difference. Unfortunately the federalization of our system these last few decades means that the states even still are very dependent on federal coordination.

I don't know, my perception is, and this may be all wrong, but I'd see the CDC as being a firewall of prevention and maybe the folks to do the post mortem for the future.   I think were are a management and hopefully response /containment phase.  

Some of the hardest parts of processing this is thinking of an agency like the WHO, who was merely parroting the Chinese party line, who was wasting time and energy on addressing potential bigotry.  The CDC, knowing they had broadened their mission to obesity, they had widened their scope to things like dealing with racism, and I haven't found if this is true but I haven't seen the report refuted, the allegation they were hosting transgender beauty pageants.  These all seem like fine missions IF all of the disease in the world is cured.  Otherwise it feels like a radical deviation from what I'd perceive their mission being and while I get they were secondary things, in all likelihood ( I do hope), but to me it demonstrates the eye was far from the prize.  Stay in your lane, keep the super bugs out of america or as managed as possible, Obesity is terrible but the CDC is making one person one pound thinner.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   1 member