Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
James Daulton

Government Response To The Coronavirus

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Ivan, I've tried to explain it before. The way he talks, punches down and aggrandizes triggers a visceral hatred in me. If a person like that just makes you laugh or has no effect, then I don't know what else to say to bridge the gap between us.

I agree with you.  I just find it very easy to separate my personal dislike of a person from what they're saying.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Workhorse said:

It's not a reach... It's trying to interpret the ramblings of a senile old man. Look, part of the job of President is to be an effective communicator. Isn't that what the Right said about Reagan and why he was such a great President?  Trump is the anti-Reagan - You can't figure out what in the world he's getting at most of the time. His speaking style is murky and imprecise at best and completely incoherent at worst.

What message do you take from that word salad?

I understood his point perfectly and I typed out his point in this very thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I agree with you.  I just find it very easy to separate my personal dislike of a person from what they're saying.  

Kudos, that is refreshing around here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

It's not a reach... It's trying to interpret the ramblings of a senile old man. Look, part of the job of President is to be an effective communicator. Isn't that what the Right said about Reagan and why he was such a great President?  Trump is the anti-Reagan - You can't figure out what in the world he's getting at most of the time. His speaking style is murky and imprecise at best and completely incoherent at worst.

What message do you take from that word salad?

Well if that's your requirement for President it looks like you will be voting third party in November.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, shader said:

So wait a second, are there people actually trying to argue that Trump didn’t call this virus a hoax?  I don’t see how anyone can read his comments and think that.

Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a ‘Hoax’?

Quote

Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I could get into so much trouble responded to this - but lets just say, I agree with your premises - and leave the rest out.

 

On a more serious note - Trump's biggest problem when it comes to stuff like this is that he has a history of lying, exaggeration, and trying to make himself look good - and that all weighs against him in times that require seriousness.  He has lost any benefit of the doubt with his previous behavior.

 

So when the sky isn't actually falling, chicken little hands won't be believed.  How sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought this was a pretty astute observation:

 

Max Fisher @Max_Fisher ·1h

Nearly every question I get about coronavirus is some variation of "How worried should I be?"

Here’s my best attempt at an answer.

Short version: you’re probably overstating the individual health risk, and understating the systemic dangers of an outbreak.

 

The odds of any individual getting the virus, and having a serious reaction, are very small - so small that its not worth worrying about, imo.

But, the damage to the economy can be big - if we start shuttering businesses for weeks to avoid further spread.  And, the more we see the virus spread, the more likely we will see rolling economic shut-downs around the country.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Megla said:

Kudos, that is refreshing around here

IK hit the nail on the head.  I hear all the time that pro-Trumpers will believe anything he says.  It appears anti-Trumpers will believe anything that he doesn't say that they see on social media.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KPD said:

“A lot of people will have this and it’s very mild. They’ll get better very rapidly. They don’t even see a doctor, they don’t even call a doctor. You never hear about those people. So you can’t put them down in the category of the overall population in terms of this corona flu and or virus. So you just can’t do that. So, if you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work. Some of them go to work, but they get better.”

==

What part of his quote do I not understand?  It seems like he's minimizing the disease severity.

 

I am the furthest thing from a Trump guy. While he 100% is trying to quell fears because all he cares about are his numbers, I THINK he was trying to also say that some people have the disease and don’t know it because their symptoms were milder than some of these other cases and they just went about their lives how they normally would with a cold. Not that they SHOULD go to work etc if they have corona symptoms. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tonydead said:

People in here are overestimating it's severity here.  You were responding to that.

 

1 hour ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It's the same virus in China.

 

1 hour ago, KPD said:

https://tbsnews.net/international/coronavirus-chronicle/coronavirus-where-most-people-are-dying-out-every-100-not-china

China is the epicentre of the deadly coronavirus, and most fatalities are reported there. Despite the fact that the highest number of coronavirus-infected people are in China, fatality rate in the country is rather on the lower side. So which country has the highest fatality rate? It is the USA.

Out of every 100 infected persons in China, 3.75 persons have died. In USA, the number is almost double. There, 6.92 persons have died out of every 100 infected persons.

 

1 hour ago, tonydead said:

See!  It's almost double the rate in the US! 

Without acknowledging the fact that we had a nursing home for the sick and dying get hit accounting for 90% of our deaths.  Wow.

Ok, downplay the deaths in China because it's China, and downplay the deaths here, because it hit a nursing home first.  Guess what, people are still dying so the disease has to be somewhat severe no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I am the furthest thing from a Trump guy. While he 100% is trying to quell fears because all he cares about are his numbers, I THINK he was trying to also say that some people have the disease and don’t know it because their symptoms were milder than some of these other cases and they just went about their lives how they normally would with a cold. Not that they SHOULD go to work etc if they have corona symptoms. 

The best words, the best words. Really. Believe me

  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I was responding to your statement that folks were overestimating the severity.  That seems pretty severe.  Whether you should change your routine is a different question.

It would obviously depend on the routine, like traveling to China for work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Well if that's your requirement for President it looks like you will be voting third party in November.

It's a pretty good requirement honestly if you think about it.  And you are absolutely correct, neither Biden or Trump look mentally equipped to handle the stresses of the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, KPD said:

 

 

 

Ok, downplay the deaths in China because it's China, and downplay the deaths here, because it hit a nursing home first.  Guess what, people are still dying so the disease has to be somewhat severe no?

Sure it's several times more severe than the flu.  Try this:

Triple the number of deaths in the U.S. AND imagine the number of people truely infected across 17 states right this second. 

If the number you imagined is over 1000 people the mortality rate is still less than the WHO Global number.

Edited by tonydead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sneegor said:

We cannot force people into quarantine like China did, public will refuse.  We are testing folks as we have kits available.  What else do you recommend we do?

Again, American exceptionalism at work.

I say we are unprepared because we lack leadership and clear messaging from said leaders.  Plus, the CDC made some terrible moves early on, moves that other countries have not done.

The USA is acting more akin to Iran rather than South Korea or Singapore.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, tonydead said:

Triple the number of deaths in the U.S. AND imagine the number of people truely infected across 17 states right this second. 

One of the challenges with this is that those currently alive and infected could lead to more dead in the future.  So, its not simply about - current infections/deaths

Some percentage of infected are on their way to death.

 

I don't know the answer to this - but I would be more interested in knowing current infections/current hospitalized as an indication of the severity of the problem in the US.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Megla said:

Seems pretty clear

 

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 2m2 minutes ago

I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work. This is just more Fake News and disinformation put out by the Democrats, in particular MSDNC. Comcast covers the CoronaVirus situation horribly, only looking to do harm to the incredible & successful effort being made!

 

40 minutes ago, Megla said:

I understood his point perfectly and I typed out his point in this very thread

So where did you "type" his point in this thread?  Seems like you copy/pasted his tweet defending himself which was itself a word salad that only missed the word hoax.

 

Leeroy's explanation makes sense if you remove the fact that Trump has constantly downplayed the disease to the point of making it a nothingburger.  This was just more of the same.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

One of the challenges with this is that those currently alive and infected could lead to more dead in the future.  So, its not simply about - current infections/deaths

Some percentage of infected are on their way to death.

 

I don't know the answer to this - but I would be more interested in knowing current infections/current hospitalized as an indication of the severity of the problem in the US.

That's why I tripled the number of deaths.  And I'd like to think more and more people aren't getting infected, but that's probably not true so your denominator is continuing to grow as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, jamny said:
1 hour ago, shader said:

So wait a second, are there people actually trying to argue that Trump didn’t call this virus a hoax?  I don’t see how anyone can read his comments and think that.

Did President Trump Refer to the Coronavirus as a ‘Hoax’?

Quote

Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.

This is technically correct. But it needs additional context.

Trump has previously used the word "hoax" to convey two different meanings:

1. when describing things that he believed to be a partisan witch hunt (e.g., impeachment).

2. when describing things that he believes did not happen (e.g., Russian meddling in the election).

Personally, I think that Trump was using definition #1 when talking about the coronavirus. But I doubt that 100% of people will interpret it that way, and there will be many people who believe that the coronavirus is a hoax. And that's not good for any of us. Whether Trump was being deliberate or not, his comments are making the country less safe, and he should issue a retraction immediately to correct the record.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

This is technically correct. But it needs additional context.

Trump has previously used the word "hoax" to convey two different meanings:

1. when describing things that he believed to be a partisan witch hunt (e.g., impeachment).

2. when describing things that he believes did not happen (e.g., Russian meddling in the election).

Personally, I think that Trump was using definition #1 when talking about the coronavirus. But I doubt that 100% of people will interpret it that way, and there will be many people who believe that the coronavirus is a hoax. And that's not good for any of us. Whether Trump was being deliberate or not, his comments are making the country less safe, and he should issue a retraction immediately to correct the record.

trying to interpret this simpleton’s intent or meaning is pointless.  he doesn’t even know.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

This is technically correct. But it needs additional context.

Trump has previously used the word "hoax" to convey two different meanings:

1. when describing things that he believed to be a partisan witch hunt (e.g., impeachment).

2. when describing things that he believes did not happen (e.g., Russian meddling in the election).

Personally, I think that Trump was using definition #1 when talking about the coronavirus. But I doubt that 100% of people will interpret it that way, and there will be many people who believe that the coronavirus is a hoax. And that's not good for any of us. Whether Trump was being deliberate or not, his comments are making the country less safe, and he should issue a retraction immediately to correct the record.

There is also the fact that Russian meddling was as real as the virus and Trump simply uses "hoax" to deflect criticism.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

This is technically correct. But it needs additional context.

Trump has previously used the word "hoax" to convey two different meanings:

1. when describing things that he believed to be a partisan witch hunt (e.g., impeachment).

2. when describing things that he believes did not happen (e.g., Russian meddling in the election).

Personally, I think that Trump was using definition #1 when talking about the coronavirus. But I doubt that 100% of people will interpret it that way, and there will be many people who believe that the coronavirus is a hoax. And that's not good for any of us. Whether Trump was being deliberate or not, his comments are making the country less safe, and he should issue a retraction immediately to correct the record.

:lmao:  You don't think him announcing $8 billion to fight the virus yesterday was enough to correct the record on this hot take huh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, KPD said:

It's a pretty good requirement honestly if you think about it.  And you are absolutely correct, neither Biden or Trump look mentally equipped to handle the stresses of the job.

Biden will at least have the right people on this and put funding back where it should have been. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the President isn’t supposed to be the lynchpin of all things. Really he needs to communicate a basic message of urgency and safety and then let the professionals handle it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, KPD said:

 

So where did you "type" his point in this thread?  Seems like you copy/pasted his tweet defending himself which was itself a word salad that only missed the word hoax.

 

Leeroy's explanation makes sense if you remove the fact that Trump has constantly downplayed the disease to the point of making it a nothingburger.  This was just more of the same.

 

Here ya go

Because they were know to be returning from a region where the CV19 virus was actively infecting people, this isn't that hard.

 

All he was saying is that people here will likely get CV19 and not know, they will think it's just the flu or a cold because their symptoms aren't severe and they will not seek medical attention and will carry on life as usual.  We all do it.

HTH

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Hi.  I hate Trump. I've hated Trump since the 2016 primary, I hate him now, and I hope he loses in November.

You're grossly misrepresenting what he actually said.  

It has absolutely nothing to do with how I feel about Trump.  And I’m not misrepresenting a thing.  He flat said it.  

Edited by dkp993
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump jealous of the virus.  Stealing his attention.

Guy is calling in Hannitty.  Wild.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Trump jealous of the virus.  Stealing his attention.

Guy is calling in Hannitty.  Wild.

Calling in Hannity?  As in having Hannity work on the virus?  Or you mean he called Hannity's show, because Trump and Co. do that all the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Calling in Hannity?  As in having Hannity work on the virus?  Or you mean he called Hannity's show, because Trump and Co. do that all the time.

I listened to sports radio for probably two decades. I'm not proud of it. When a couple of times in those twenty years a super star athlete would call in to dispute whatever loud mouth hot take machine was saying, it was highly unusual and jawdroppingly crazy.  In comparison, having the POTUS constantly calling in to talk TV shows is off the hook BONKERS. 

Edited by Sheriff Bart
  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

You’re a really funny guy @tonydead, real funny. 

 

32 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

I listened to sports radio for probably two decades. I'm not proud of it. When a couple of times in those twenty years a super star athlete would call in to dispute whatever loud mouth hot take machine was saying, it was highly unusual and jawdroppingly crazy.  In comparison, having the POTUS constantly calling in to talk TV shows is off the hook BONKERS. 

Well its been normal for Trump. I took it as Daywalking thinking this is something new. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, tonydead said:

 

Well its been normal for Trump. I took it as Daywalking thinking this is something new. 

I was referring to your crying emoji reaction to my post.  

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, tonydead said:

 

Well its been normal for Trump. I took it as Daywalking thinking this is something new. 

What i was getting at is it is insane to be calling in to Hannitty to freestyle about a pandemic.  This a not spitballing about Rosie O’Donnel or Ted Cruz’s wife.

Their is no upside for Trump to be doing interviews/events like he has the past few days.  If you were smart you put the experts front and center as a buffer.  Not to mention they know what they are talking about.

But he cant help himself.  Like a moth to the flame.  This is the big story.  This is where the eyeballs are at.  He cannot resist.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

I was referring to your crying emoji reaction to my post.  

How is a crying emoji funny?  It's sad you cant separate how you feel about Trump and what he actually said.  

  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, tonydead said:

How is a crying emoji funny?  It's sad you cant separate how you feel about Trump and what he actually said.  

But all-too-often what he actually said gets people from the political right re-stating/re-imagining what was actually meant all the damn time.

 

*I'm not taking a side on this particular "lets make sense of Trump" item.

Edited by BigSteelThrill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

But all-too-often what he actually said gets people from the political right re-stating/re-imagining what was actually meant all the damn time.

 

*I'm not taking a side on this particular "lets make sense of Trump" item.

Sure but a page or two back I gave 3 examples that were repeated over this morning that are demonstrably wrong. 

I could just say both sides, but, I have to think the posters here are smarter than that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I just got an e-mail from the company I am working for and they are banning all travel. The company is located in Delaware. We have  a few huge projects going on with consultants traveling in from all over the country and I just got an e-mail telling them all to stay home and work remotely until further notice. They also told people that have any signs of sickness to work from home for at least two weeks after their symptoms are gone. Has anyone else seen something like this yet? I don't think it is a bad idea but I was wondering if this was gaining traction. This company is extremely focused on security and safety but I was still a bit shocked that they were going to such extreme measures. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, TheMagus said:

Has anyone else seen something like this yet?

Yeah, my company banned all work related travel (domestic and international) without C-suite approval. They also asked if you plan to travel or if state for personal reasons, that you contact HR beforehand. Two of my directs had out of state travel for this weekend and HR wanted them to work from home for 14 days. We got that decree rolled back for my 2.

Our jobs requires access to on-site shops and labs and tools. 14 days at home for half my team would have an effect on deliverables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually agree with President Trump. I suspect the actual mortality rate is well below 1%. The key is that way more people are infected than we realize. 

Whats hurting business all over the globe is these decisions to stop all large gatherings. Given the already rapid spread of the disease, it makes no sense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TheMagus said:

So I just got an e-mail from the company I am working for and they are banning all travel. The company is located in Delaware. We have  a few huge projects going on with consultants traveling in from all over the country and I just got an e-mail telling them all to stay home and work remotely until further notice. They also told people that have any signs of sickness to work from home for at least two weeks after their symptoms are gone. Has anyone else seen something like this yet? I don't think it is a bad idea but I was wondering if this was gaining traction. This company is extremely focused on security and safety but I was still a bit shocked that they were going to such extreme measures. 

Real news like this is more often posted in the other virus thread in the FFA. Large North American, mostly, company here and we have suspended travel outside of North American and are keeping businesses associates from other countries and those that have recently visited other countries from coming to our offices. Domestic travel just not encouraged right now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I actually agree with President Trump. I suspect the actual mortality rate is well below 1%. The key is that way more people are infected than we realize. 

Whats hurting business all over the globe is these decisions to stop all large gatherings. Given the already rapid spread of the disease, it makes no sense. 

Stopping large gatherings doesnt make sense?  Wat?

It was interesting to see Jay Inslee get along with Pense tonight. The reporters tried to bait Pense and the experts with the mortality rate question. You could tell they cant commit to an unknown number, but, basically said they expect it to be lower than 3.4 in a round about political way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

Yeah, my company banned all work related travel (domestic and international) without C-suite approval. They also asked if you plan to travel or if state for personal reasons, that you contact HR beforehand. Two of my directs had out of state travel for this weekend and HR wanted them to work from home for 14 days. We got that decree rolled back for my 2.

Our jobs requires access to on-site shops and labs and tools. 14 days at home for half my team would have an effect on deliverables.

14 days for just out of state?  You must be in a zero reported case state for that to make any kind of sense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DW didn't make a mistake. It's hard to argue against the fact that the country would be a better place if the Trump family went away, no matter what the circumstances. They are objectively terrible human beings.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

DW didn't make a mistake. It's hard to argue against the fact that the country would be a better place if the Trump family went away, no matter what the circumstances. They are objectively terrible human beings.

No matter what? Like planning assasination no matter what?  Crap this place gets creepy late at night. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Stopping large gatherings doesnt make sense?  Wat?

It was interesting to see Jay Inslee get along with Pense tonight. The reporters tried to bait Pense and the experts with the mortality rate question. You could tell they cant commit to an unknown number, but, basically said they expect it to be lower than 3.4 in a round about political way. 

Yes, what a deviously crafted question, asking about mortality rates of a possible pandemic. And asking the experts and the person in charge of the response? Man, it’s a good thing they can answer that in a round about way and not commit to a number. 
Why cant they just say 3%? Pretty much what every expert is saying. How is this a tricky question?

Maybe I should ask you what you mean by “bait Pense and the experts?” 3.4%. Of reported cases it’s 3.4%. 
 

Sure, there are probably unreported cases out there that could drop that number down, perhaps. But of the observable numbers it’s 3.4%. We shouldn’t just guess that “ it could actually be really low, like less than 1%.” 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Basically the argument “well, we don’t even know how many people are infected, so that mortality rate should be lower” isn’t an acceptable response. It’s even more alarming. 

Edited by Snorkelson
“Thousands to hundreds of thousands” - Donald Trump

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, TheMagus said:

So I just got an e-mail from the company I am working for and they are banning all travel. The company is located in Delaware. We have  a few huge projects going on with consultants traveling in from all over the country and I just got an e-mail telling them all to stay home and work remotely until further notice. They also told people that have any signs of sickness to work from home for at least two weeks after their symptoms are gone. Has anyone else seen something like this yet? I don't think it is a bad idea but I was wondering if this was gaining traction. This company is extremely focused on security and safety but I was still a bit shocked that they were going to such extreme measures. 

We stopped outgoing travel for the next two months and are getting folks that travel in to use teleconference and other remote means.  This all went down yesterday.  

Edited by knowledge dropper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting article on the future of this coronavirus

 

The article looks at what may happen in the future if this coronavirus is not contained (and it seems unlikely to be contained)

 

1.  It joins the other 4 coronaviruses in seasonal circulation and becomes something akin to a bad cold.

 

2.  It becomes more like a serious seasonal Flu strain - before eventually fading to "normal" flu-like symptoms as people build immunity over the years 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve never really been angered by Trump before.  I’m not into politics, and got involved in this forum for longer than I should because I was sick of being bombarded by Trump Russia stuff 24/7.

Ive always viewed Trump as less of a Evil corrupt criminal mastermind, and more of a idiot Celebrity with a terrible record on the mistreatment of women.

That being said, I’m very angry with him right now. I don’t follow him on twitter and I don’t watch tv, so I don’t notice things he says.  
 

But if you’ve drifted to the ffa, I’ve been heavily following the corona virus, for obvious reasons.

This idea has been breaking out that it’s a hoax, and that it’s not that bad.  Hey the death rate is definitely going to be under 1%, etc.   I couldn’t figure out why or how people could think that.

Then I noticed that Trump said the hoax thing, which I posted about yesterday. Also just noticed this morning that HE may the statement about the low death rate the other day.

Now it all makes sense where all these bozos are coming from.  

But he’s really stepping in it this time.  He’s going to have a lot of blood on his hands for his nonchalant attitude unless he gets lucky and somehow this virus gets solved in an unforeseen way (which he would certainly take credit for)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.