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Government Response To The Coronavirus (14 Viewers)

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zoonation said:
1.  Tells the world that America won’t participate in  developing a global solution to a current threat. 

2.  Neuters America’s ability to lead/participate in global pandemic prevention. 

3.  The man who ordered the withdrawal only did so because he looks bad and must blame someone (evidence of narcissistic decision making).
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1) It tells the world we are not part of an organization we feel is suspect in it's alliances and ability to actually matter.  That's it.

2) Doesn't neuter us one bit.  We still have plenty of well funded medical organizations in this country and can fund those rather than an organization that has shown to be somewhat ineffective.  And as I posted earlier, we are not all of a sudden left off the cure list nor would we hide our breakthroughs with the world.   Participation in the WHO changes none of that.

3) This one is irrelevant and not on topic.

So 2 of 3 and the 2 you gave aren't very strong.

See?   Lots of butt hurt over this, but very real understanding as to why.

 
Ilov80s said:
It’s like we don’t even have a President. He is demanding schools open but he is offering no suggestions or help and is saying not to worry about it because it’s so far away. 
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GOOD!! Cause you know what, it isn't his job to "help"  Man. Stop looking to some elected official to tell you what to do..PLEASE.  This position REALLY makes me curious.

Make your own decisions, forge your own path.  

 
What...umm...what is his job?  As the sole nationally elected position, what is his role when it comes to public health and a national battle against a worldwide pandemic?  
 

I can’t turn to the media, they’re largely and collectively biased supposedly, the president nor elected officials should be looked to for guidance...where do I turn to gather information with which to make my own decisions and forge my own path in this?

 
supermike80 said:
GOOD!! Cause you know what, it isn't his job to "help"  Man. Stop looking to some elected official to tell you what to do..PLEASE.  This position REALLY makes me curious.

Make your own decisions, forge your own path.  
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So Trump has also abdicated the responsibility of "Leader of the free world" huh?

 
That one guy said:
What...umm...what is his job?  As the sole nationally elected position, what is his role when it comes to public health and a national battle against a worldwide pandemic?  
 

I can’t turn to the media, they’re largely and collectively biased supposedly, the president nor elected officials should be looked to for guidance...where do I turn to gather information with which to make my own decisions and forge my own path in this?
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You seriously cannot do this on your own?

This is a great example of what's wrong with this country.  

 
supermike80 said:
GOOD!! Cause you know what, it isn't his job to "help"  Man. Stop looking to some elected official to tell you what to do..PLEASE.  This position REALLY makes me curious.

Make your own decisions, forge your own path.  
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I’m looking for a leader to tell others what to do (along with me) so we all can be safe and hopefully resume normalcy.  

 
I think @supermike80 is on to something.

We should simply abolish the position of President as unnecessary.

And, I sure as hell don't need a 100 old white dudes telling me how to live - so lets get rid of the Senate.

Does anyone really think a group of 9 Ivy League educated senior citizens have any clue about the day-to-day life in the real world?  Get rid of the Supreme Court.

I can't be bothered listening to some congresswoman from New York who knows nothing about my situation - there is no point in her having a vote over my life.  Get rid of congress.

 
The Gator said:
I think @supermike80 is on to something.

We should simply abolish the position of President as unnecessary.

And, I sure as hell don't need a 100 old white dudes telling me how to live - so lets get rid of the Senate.

Does anyone really think a group of 9 Ivy League educated senior citizens have any clue about the day-to-day life in the real world?  Get rid of the Supreme Court.

I can't be bothered listening to some congresswoman from New York who knows nothing about my situation - there is no point in her having a vote over my life.  Get rid of congress.
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Yeah great reply but no.  You really pulled something there big fella.  

 
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supermike80 said:
I don't know what "hampers international cooperation" really means but that seems vague to me. 

The WHO isn't going away so nothing is reduced

The last one is funny to me.  Somehow, the WHO finds a cure for something significant.  Then says "Sorry USA< you can;t have this cure"  yeah right.

All three of these answers are weak to me
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Ok, so riddle me this: what 3 things does the US gain by leaving the WHO?

 
Kal El said:
Ok, so riddle me this: what 3 things does the US gain by leaving the WHO?
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1) More money to fund medical research with entities that are potentially more aligned with the US and it's needs.

2) Potentially less corruption due to the questions about the WHO being led by China and being dishonest.

3) Pressure on the WHO, if it is to be respected, to clean up their act so the US can rejoin and believe in them as a legit entity.

 
supermike80 said:
1) More money to fund medical research with entities that are potentially more aligned with the US and it's needs.

2) Potentially less corruption due to the questions about the WHO being led by China and being dishonest.

3) Pressure on the WHO, if it is to be respected, to clean up their act so the US can rejoin and believe in them as a legit entity.
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Those are all terrible answers. The US is part of a global community, whether Trump likes it or not. Whoever is allegedly "in charge" of the WHO still has to answer to health care professionals around the world. Besides, I'd rather deal with them than our own system, which is designed to rob people blind and put them in debt from which they'll never recover.

 
supermike80 said:
1) More money to fund medical research with entities that are potentially more aligned with the US and it's needs.
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Name those entities and their role in worldwide disease surveillance and epidemic monitoring.

supermike80 said:
2) Potentially less corruption due to the questions about the WHO being led by China and being dishonest.
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How has the WHO been led my China?  I'm not talking about being misled by China, but rather that China exerted undue influence over the WHO.  

supermike80 said:
3) Pressure on the WHO, if it is to be respected, to clean up their act so the US can rejoin and believe in them as a legit entity.
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What specific measures should the WHO do to "clean up their act"?  What would make you believe in them "as a legit entity"?

 
Kal El said:
Those are all terrible answers. The US is part of a global community, whether Trump likes it or not. Whoever is allegedly "in charge" of the WHO still has to answer to health care professionals around the world. Besides, I'd rather deal with them than our own system, which is designed to rob people blind and put them in debt from which they'll never recover.
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Oh OK.  

 
supermike80 said:
1) More money to fund medical research with entities that are potentially more aligned with the US and it's needs.

2) Potentially less corruption due to the questions about the WHO being led by China and being dishonest.

3) Pressure on the WHO, if it is to be respected, to clean up their act so the US can rejoin and believe in them as a legit entity.
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Trump has a contentious history with health organizations, including our own FDA and CDC. Funding was reduced for the CDC's Global Health Protection program in 2019, which reduced CDC staff in China. This was not about corruption, it wasn't about a health strategy, it was about Trump's misguided approach to MAGA, against the recommendations of all of our health experts. Notably, Trump always tries to cut funding to NIH, but fortunately Congress holds the purse strings. I'm not saying we would've necessarily been better off under a Hillary administration, because the pandemic is complicated,  but the political optics look bad for Trump, as seen by polls. From 1 person infected, to 5 people to 135,000 dead, the public has lost their faith in Trump's ability to lead. Trump's maskphobia will not be treated well by history.

 
Florida at 80% hospital capacity. Miami Dade at 90%. These are record numbers and the percentages have doubled in 2 weeks. Same for Texas. Same for Arizona. 

But hey people need to figure this out by themselves. We don’t need a federal response, 

 
timschochet said:
Florida at 80% hospital capacity. Miami Dade at 90%. These are record numbers and the percentages have doubled in 2 weeks. Same for Texas. Same for Arizona. 

But hey people need to figure this out by themselves. We don’t need a federal response, 
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Correct.  100% correct.  Now you are finally getting it.

 
supermike80 said:
Correct.  100% correct.  Now you are finally getting it.
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Oh I get it. I regard it as nonsensical, incredibly harmful, the main reason we’re in the situation we are in right now, and a direct cause of thousands of unnecessary deaths and human suffering in this country. But I’ve always understood the argument.  

 
timschochet said:
Oh I get it. I regard it as nonsensical, incredibly harmful, the main reason we’re in the situation we are in right now, and a direct cause of thousands of unnecessary deaths and human suffering in this country. But I’ve always understood the argument.  
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Oh I know you do, and you might be partially right.  It's a shame that this is true..because many people cannot think for themselves.  

 
It is listed that the US posted infection rate is at 3.05 million and deaths attributed to COVID is at 133K for a death rate of 4.3%.

Many people are saying that the TRUE infection rate would be ten times what is listed, or 30.5 million.

Now, I'm not a mathematician (but I play one on TV)... If this is true, wouldn't that make the death rate closer to .43%?

 
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SoBeDad said:
In Broward,  "a school survey of parents in Broward so far shows 26% of them prefer online learning, 37% the hybrid model and 34% the in-school model."

In Miami-Dade,  "around 60% of parents prefer the in-school model, while around 30% of parents prefer the online model."

These are the 6th and 4th largest school districts in the USA. The governor has "mandated" that schools be open 5 days a week, with plans approved by Tallahassee. County officials say they'll only open if its safe. Local middle and high schools are toying with 2 days on, 2 virtual to deal with spacing requirements. FIU is discussing 4 class options, including asynchronous classes. The preschool my roommate works at is restricting class size to 8 (was about double last year) with 1 instead of 2 aides, and smaller administration, but her contract has a 10-day termination clause if not enough students attend, which could occur if there is a COVID outbreak. Many jobs depend on having preschools open, but the hospital where I work closed their preschool for the 2nd time due to some positive cases. FIU will offer 4 class options including asynchronous. 

 There is a lot of uncertainty from the preschool to the university level. 

What's happening in Michigan?

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/07/07/educational-leaders-in-miami-dade-broward-respond-to-state-mandate-ordering-all-schools-open-this-fall/
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Depends where you are at. Each district is working on their own things. Some are already offering online only options. Everyone is kind of in wait and see mode. It’s such a fluid situation. The Governor has issued various plans based on the threat level we are facing. I’m not really paying too much attention until mid August since it’s so fluid. Right now I’m just doing my part by wearing a mask, limiting my public exposure and contact with people. 

 
Opie said:
It is listed that the US posted infection rate is at 3.05 million and deaths attributed to COVID is at 133K for a death rate of 4.3%.

Many people are saying that the TRUE infection rate would be ten times what is listed, or 30.5 million.

If this is true, wouldn't that make the death rate closer to .43%?
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No, because even if what you say is true, some of the people that are currently infected will die.  Your death rate denominator shouldn’t be “number of people that have been infected” it should be “number of people infected that have either recovered or died already.”

 
Opie said:
It is listed that the US posted infection rate is at 3.05 million and deaths attributed to COVID is at 133K for a death rate of 4.3%.

Many people are saying that the TRUE infection rate would be ten times what is listed, or 30.5 million.

Now, I'm not a mathematician (but I play one on TV)... If this is true, wouldn't that make the death rate closer to .43%?
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Who are these "many people?" Also, I highly doubt that the rate is that high, because that's assuming that only 10% of the population that thinks they're sick is actually getting tested.

 
Kal El said:
Who are these "many people?" Also, I highly doubt that the rate is that high, because that's assuming that only 10% of the population that thinks they're sick is actually getting tested.
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NYT did over the weekend---they actually postulated that the infection rate is 20X higher

 
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supermike80 said:
Because he can.   What?  

I' saying I don't NEED it.  many on this board do, heck AAA actually pleaded for it.  
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I agree that the President’s job is not helping to open local public schools but once you start pressuring them to open, you should be able to offer some kind of help. Your “because he can” answer is basically a non-answer.

 
Ilov80s said:
I agree that the President’s job is not helping to open local public schools but once you start pressuring them to open, you should be able to offer some kind of help. Your “because he can” answer is basically a non-answer.
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No it isn't.  That's silly.  So the President is supposed to solve everything he suggests? That's absurd.

 
Kal El said:
Those are all terrible answers. The US is part of a global community, whether Trump likes it or not. Whoever is allegedly "in charge" of the WHO still has to answer to health care professionals around the world. Besides, I'd rather deal with them than our own system, which is designed to rob people blind and put them in debt from which they'll never recover.
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Yeah...hard to claim leaving the WHO leads to even potential less corruption given our own system's flaws and well, this administration's flaws when it comes to corruption and being more about the $$$ than anything.

 
supermike80 said:
No it isn't.  That's silly.  So the President is supposed to solve everything he suggests? That's absurd.
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Nobody is asking him to solve it. I am asking him to be able to talk about it with competency. He was not able to provide a single useful suggestion or guideline. He should stay out of the decisions schools make if he has no help to offer because it’s not his job to handle public schools. 

 
Kal El said:
The president should do the right thing for the majority of the American people. Trump has consistently done the opposite of that.
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As you said, I have no time for opinions.  What you are saying is not fact.  It is how you feel.  So stop that

 
Kal El said:
The president should do the right thing for the majority of the American people. Trump has consistently done the opposite of that.
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I think the time for hoping that this president finds an excuse to resign has long past.   I think the time for being able to get out of the way of the experts has also come and gone.  So there is the hope that this president will do the right thing is so small it might just as well be zero.

 
supermike80 said:
As you said, I have no time for opinions.  What you are saying is not fact.  It is how you feel.  So stop that
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Trump withdrawing from the WHO is not good for the American people. That is a fact. His efforts to preserve Confederare statues and call peaceful protesters "thugs," is not good for the American people. That is also a fact.

 
supermike80 said:
Kal El said:
The president should do the right thing for the majority of the American people. Trump has consistently done the opposite of that.
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As you said, I have no time for opinions.  What you are saying is not fact.  It is how you feel.  So stop that
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You have no time for the absurd opinion that the president should be serving the people of America by doing what is best for the majority rather than what he feels is best for his own selfish interest?  That is how you feel?

 
Does anyone else get the feeling that if the overall sickness and death rates were the same as they are for the poorest among us, blacks, Latinos, and Native Americans, all of these arguments about personal responsibility and no federal involvement necessary would disappear? 

 
Kal El said:
Trump withdrawing from the WHO is not good for the American people. That is a fact. His efforts to preserve Confederare statues and call peaceful protesters "thugs," is not good for the American people. That is also a fact.
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I've already shown your  first statement to be false.  The rest is just your speculation.   Sorry

 
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