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Government Response To The Coronavirus (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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The Gator
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
There’s also one important factor that’s getting missed in this discussion and that’s time to exposure. Study after study now it’s showing that it’s not short interactions with the infection seem to be happening it’s in a long-term multi-hour exposure to somebody with COVID.
Green Balloons
Footballguy
Scientists warn of potential wave of COVID-linked brain damage
Yes the key word is "potential" but NOBODY knows what the long term effect of this yet. Now you want me to potentially expose my children to this? No.
Yes the key word is "potential" but NOBODY knows what the long term effect of this yet. Now you want me to potentially expose my children to this? No.
Kids need to be in school. If kids aren't in school it's the working class and low income families that will suffer. Definitely not the billionaires.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Boo on that. The corona infection path / rate / exposure doesn't seem to be understood by anyone.
I read an article last week that said..O well it may not spread easily from person to person but there are SUPERSPREADERS who can infect dozens. It's all unknown.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I was just thinking about this too. Is this going to be another case of the poorer schools getting hit harder because of things like this?
Jackstraw
Footballguy
I'm in the suck it up category. Families are getting fed right now in the middle of summer in my district. Are kids being traumatized? Yeah probably. Not as much as dad or mom or gammy or grandpa being severely sick or dead.
We need to get out of this notion of normal. This is not normal. It can't be normal. No matter how much our brains have trouble getting around that fact.
We have managed to perfectly thread the needle of maximum economic damage and maximum deaths and just continue to make bad decision after bad decision because we can't come to terms with reality.
School will not be able to remain open. Sports leagues will not last. It's a ##### I know but no amount of magical thinking can overcome it.
supermike80
Footballguy
But we are saving lives.
I don't know. I was gonna respond to that but I decided against it. I mean there are certainly some that feel we should all cower in a corner until everything is OK. And I am not one of those people.
supermike80
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
We can cut our losses. We can catch up. We can't bring back dead people.
The thing is we are going to do it for supposedly the right reasons BUT IT WON'T WORK ANYWAY.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
This whole pandemic has hit "the poor" harder than others - it's a cruel irony but I think true. Your school example just being one of many.
dkp993
Footballguy
While everything isn’t known, no doubt, a lot more is known then just a few months ago and more is learned everyday. But your point also only supports the theory of keeping school closed. If we don’t know yet why are we taking the risk?
*And to be clear I don’t have my feet firmly planted in either camp right now. My wife and I have been in heated discussions over the past three weeks about whether we want to send our child to school. I tend to fall on the side of yes In those discussions but I do understand her point and have a healthy understanding that we don’t understand right now and I’m not sure about the risk reward proposition favoring her going.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
We could do the things many other countries have successfully done. I mean the dang model is right there for the taking.
Doug B
Footballguy
The parts in red aren't true at all. The broad strokes are known at this point.
The article you read was right: infected carriers have been found to vary considerably in amount of virus shed. Just because deep-level understanding about the hows and whys of this variation are still being studied and not yet locked down, though ... that doesn't mean the broad finding is not helpful to inform decision-making.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
This only addresses the "easy" stuff. Like I said, I'm mostly in favor of keeping schools closed but that's because it's easy for me. What about the single mom who has to work to feed her 3 kids and can't afford someone to watch them if they are doing school from home? I don't think it's a farfetched scenario and I think it's fair to say that those 3 kids are in jeopardy of being homeless, motherless or starving to death if schools aren't open. Now, a good argument could be made that we can do things to remedy that but I'm just pointing out this is a very complex discussion.
supermike80
Footballguy
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Doug B
Footballguy
I do think education can continue through non-traditional means, and that best education practices will be forged over the next few school years.
However: let's say COVID was much worse and we really did have to cancel schools for a few years. While the outcome would be far from ideal ... would it be all that terrible to have a cohort of youth who did, indeed, complete their K-12 educations but had to wait until they were 19-21 years old to do it?
The Commish
Footballguy
Wait...our President isn't supposed to have proposed solutions to the things he wants accomplished? Really? 
At that point, the position is reduced to basically that weirdo that sits in the corner during brainstorming sessions just throwing out crazy #### that comes to his/her mind...that's where some are setting the bar? No wonder he's President.
At that point, the position is reduced to basically that weirdo that sits in the corner during brainstorming sessions just throwing out crazy #### that comes to his/her mind...that's where some are setting the bar? No wonder he's President.
Doug B
Footballguy
Without federal guidelines, funding sources, etc. ... yeah, many such schools will have an uphill climb.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
I understand its more complex than I can possibly understand. But the one unmoveable stone cold fact in my mind is you can't bunch humans up like that in a pandemic and expect any other result than mass infections, overwhelmed hospitals, dead teachers, and closing schools in the end anyway. You're right back were you started but worse of from a pandemic standpoint.
Hope I'm wrong.
Doug B
Footballguy
I'd go so far as to say that, paradoxically, people continuing to want "normal" will push "normal" further and further away. For better or worse, reality is going to have to set it and, collectively, people are going to have to stop wanting a "return to normal." Do the hard work, relish the unpleasant, resist drawing needless lines in the sand ... and "normal" will come back all on its own.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
What I have learned from the PSF in the last week:Wait...our President isn't supposed to have proposed solutions to the things he wants accomplished? Really?
At that point, the position is reduced to basically that weirdo that sits in the corner during brainstorming sessions just throwing out crazy #### that comes to his/her mind...that's where some are setting the bar? No wonder he's President.
1. We should take what the President says with a grain of salt.
2. The President doesn't have have to lead or propose solutions. We should be able to do that ourselves.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
By the way my irony meter is off the flipping hook how many years conservatives have badmouthed public schools but now they are the best thing since sliced bread with all these myriad of benefits.
timschochet
Footballguy
Not sure what you want me to explain. Pressure and even blackmail can have their points for a President to use, usually when there is no other option. I haven’t investigated the example you brought up to know whether or not it was the best option.
My complaint against Donald Trump is that this is always his ONLY option. He never compromises, never negotiates. He threatens and if that doesn’t work he quits. Or he surrenders and pretends he didn’t. But there is never any attempt to work with anyone he disagrees with. Ever.
Doug B
Footballguy
Yeah, so? This is a novel coronavirus, after all. Guidance about it is supposed to change -- fast and furious early on (like, for the several months or so), and then more gradually as the knowledge base coalesces over time.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I just hate this has become yet another political battle. Forget what Trump says - his opinion on most everything is worthless because he's only invested in himself and his re-election. There's smart people on both sides of the school opening debate. I would rail on leadership at all levels not having plans and while I think it's fair it's also not something easy to come up with. I actually spent time thinking about what I would do and I think my solution would be something like allow remote learning for everyone who is able and then only have 1 (or more in some areas) school open per city/county, etc. and have young teachers teach in person, old teachers teach online and have very strict rules about onsite classes (masks, no recess/PE, etc.). Temperature checks and testing - be ready to shut things down quick it there's any outbreaks. We just seem like we are woefully unprepared and have no real plans.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Agreed and hope most districts have been have such discussions and planning (as they have had time to ponder and gather information as it comes).
I know our district at last announcement (and another coming tomorrow) is planning on having both options available...being able to go in person with precautions as well as online availability for those who don't wish to come in person. They used some sort of funding (whether stimulus or whatever) to ensure computer access and internet access for all students (they already had an ok capacity for laptops for people to check out if needed).
But school systems should be doing this already...should have already been planning (though, its government so of course some will say how unprepared they were even after all this time...just as election officials will claim the same with an inability for possible mail in voting).
timschochet
Footballguy
We need to open up the schools. But we also need some guidelines on how to do it. Direction from the CDC, with federal mandates and funding. Unless Trump comes through with this it’s hard to take him seriously and hard to see how this won’t end up a disaster.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Honestly, I agree 100% with AAA that this isn't a slam dunk decision. I cringe thinking about my son doing another year of school online where he is only occupied by schoolwork for 90mins a day. I hate to have my 5 year old miss the start of normal Kindergarten.
However, I think those frustrations are weighed against my eroding trust for people to stick to any sort of guidelines and make it as safe as possible. I've already encountered a couple parents sending kids to basketball practice despite their kid being in contact with somebody who tested positive. Are we going to trust parents not to sent their kids in to school sick if they have to get to work? Are the kids going to keep masks on? (hell, are they going to be required to wear masks?). Is the school going to be able to keep up with needs like disinfecting, ventilation, social distancing to keep the kids as safe as possible? No good answers here, but I am just nervous that what we have seen play out in the last month is what we are going to see happen in the schools in the fall and they are going to start shutting down anyway.
However, I think those frustrations are weighed against my eroding trust for people to stick to any sort of guidelines and make it as safe as possible. I've already encountered a couple parents sending kids to basketball practice despite their kid being in contact with somebody who tested positive. Are we going to trust parents not to sent their kids in to school sick if they have to get to work? Are the kids going to keep masks on? (hell, are they going to be required to wear masks?). Is the school going to be able to keep up with needs like disinfecting, ventilation, social distancing to keep the kids as safe as possible? No good answers here, but I am just nervous that what we have seen play out in the last month is what we are going to see happen in the schools in the fall and they are going to start shutting down anyway.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I like all those, but we have also seen the battle in states over these guidelines and not be able to come to terms with safety measures for business.
Another thing that I think will happen is we plan to open for "normal" in person school but have to shut down - are they going to have a plan for the online classes? Do the teachers now have to come up with 2 or 3 class plans to cover everything? Dunno.
supermike80
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Oh yes, if only Trump was willing to negotiate with the ever so conciliatory left...
I don't think compromise is anywhere to be found. But because Trump is Trump and is the President it's just more obvious.
I don't think Obama, for instance, was any less uncompromising. I just think he was smoother in his recalcitrance. But the story there, of course, was that the Republicans were unwilling to negotiate with him.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
The Commish
Footballguy
CDC already has guidelines for opening schools. It's the same set of guidelines Trump says are "too strict" or whatever garbage is oozing out of his pie hole today. Fortunately for us, my kids' school is offering an online school and in person option (not a hybrid...you do one or the other) but you have to commit to it for the entire semester. They will have the same exact assignments as those in the classroom and a "monitor" type of teacher dedicated to 50 kids to make sure they stay on track while the classroom teacher is teaching. The day will be just like a regular school day with allotted times for each subject.
The in school experience is going to be "regular day, but have plexiglass shields around each desk". Won't require masks (aren't required by CDC) and there's no way to keep them "6 feet apart" either. I suspect my kids will be online for the first semester of this year based on the lack of state direction provided here in Florida.
The in school experience is going to be "regular day, but have plexiglass shields around each desk". Won't require masks (aren't required by CDC) and there's no way to keep them "6 feet apart" either. I suspect my kids will be online for the first semester of this year based on the lack of state direction provided here in Florida.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Oh, I think we can be a lot dumber than you thought that we think that we thought that we were once.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
If we have a choice like this, I would probably opt for online too, much to the annoyance of my kids.
The Gator
Footballguy
One last thought on schools:
Schools are not going to get it "right" - they are caught in the middle of competing interests, and there will always be some people who will argue that schools should do X, and some people who will argue that schools should do Y. And, we have to accept that information changes semi-regularly, in terms of best-practices. The whole world is learnign and adapting on the fly.
Ultimately, I think most school districts want to do what is best for all of their stakeholders - knowing they can't achieve that. So, there will be compromises that we all have to live with.
My personal preference is that schools act conservatively here - because I think the worst outcome is having to shut down completely during the year. That kind of start-stop-start will be much more difficult for the kids to have any semblance of structured learning. At the same time, I know I am approaching this from a position of privilege where our kids are prepared to work whether it is in-person or in-home.
Schools are not going to get it "right" - they are caught in the middle of competing interests, and there will always be some people who will argue that schools should do X, and some people who will argue that schools should do Y. And, we have to accept that information changes semi-regularly, in terms of best-practices. The whole world is learnign and adapting on the fly.
Ultimately, I think most school districts want to do what is best for all of their stakeholders - knowing they can't achieve that. So, there will be compromises that we all have to live with.
My personal preference is that schools act conservatively here - because I think the worst outcome is having to shut down completely during the year. That kind of start-stop-start will be much more difficult for the kids to have any semblance of structured learning. At the same time, I know I am approaching this from a position of privilege where our kids are prepared to work whether it is in-person or in-home.
School openings across globe suggest ways to keep coronavirus at bay, despite outbreak
With measures in place, the risk can be reduced, probably to an acceptable level for most. I'd like to know the demographic and clinical characteristics of the Swedish teachers who died.
With measures in place, the risk can be reduced, probably to an acceptable level for most. I'd like to know the demographic and clinical characteristics of the Swedish teachers who died.
Green Balloons
Footballguy
The talking point for months now is the US is the only country in the world where its citizens enjoy freedom. So the POTUS can't do anything. And people believe this.Wait...our President isn't supposed to have proposed solutions to the things he wants accomplished? Really?
At that point, the position is reduced to basically that weirdo that sits in the corner during brainstorming sessions just throwing out crazy #### that comes to his/her mind...that's where some are setting the bar? No wonder he's President.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
How much of the equation is other countries were flattening the curve more than us pre-opening of schools?
The Commish
Footballguy
Yeah...we're preparing them now. The good thing is, we can probably allow more of their friend interactions as we know the families who are on the same page as us now. We just have to be better at communicating with each other and having times they get together in the evenings and on weekends.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Obama tried to work with Republicans his entire first term until it was patently obvious they would give him nothing. He put entitlements on the table in exchange for taxes to balance the budget. Nothing. He made concession after concession to the right on the ACA. They simply moved the goalposts. Second term yep he went his own way but at that point the conservative “strategy” had been laid bare.
belljr
Footballguy
Well Florida won't report hospitalizations in their daily updates but according to Florida health 56 hospitals reached ICU capacity
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
How about this?
PENCE: “We don’t want the guidance from the CDC to be the reason schools don’t open up.”
Jackstraw
Footballguy
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