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Government Response To The Coronavirus (11 Viewers)

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The Z Machine said:
Let's see if their rates differ from ours through the end of the year 
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I will also be interested to see the comparison, but also realize it will not matter at all for us.   Other countries have already shown us ways that we could have not had the 100s of thousands of deaths we did, but we didn't seem to care then.   I don't think enough has changed to make us do anything like they are - it will just be more in house fighting, "but.. the economy", muh haircuts!, we are different, and the other 100s of excuses we have used in the last 6months to get us where we are today.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
I will also be interested to see the comparison, but also realize it will not matter at all for us.   Other countries have already shown us ways that we could have not had the 100s of thousands of deaths we did, but we didn't seem to care then.   I don't think enough has changed to make us do anything like they are - it will just be more in house fighting, "but.. the economy", muh haircuts!, we are different, and the other 100s of excuses we have used in the last 6months to get us where we are today.  
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Yeah, but I wanna see if lockdowns can really get things under control.  We might see some come January. 

 
The Z Machine said:
Yeah, but I wanna see if lockdowns can really get things under control.  We might see some come January. 
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Fair point.  I wasn't being too positive there, and should try better to look ahead and hope for a different voice that might take proper measures if it's needed.  

 
The Z Machine said:
Yeah, but I wanna see if lockdowns can really get things under control.  We might see some come January. 
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Worst part is, we don't need to lock things down if people would just respect each other, stay the hell away from each other while out and wear a mask.  Throw on top of that the proper amount of testing/tracing and things could be under control (enough to feel comfortable being out and about) within months of catching up.  It's mind boggling how simple yet so difficult this is.

 
The Z Machine said:
Public health interventions are often like that.  Think flu shots, MMR vaccines, etc. 

 People are lazy and distrustful of outsiders telling them what to do.  Public trust in experts and science has been under attack for a long time, but it's gotten really bad during this crisis. administration. 
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What I edited is what I think is a big part of why I think Trump as POTUS is dangerous.  

 
The Z Machine said:
Public health interventions are often like that.  Think flu shots, MMR vaccines, etc. 

 People are lazy and distrustful of outsiders telling them what to do.  Public trust in experts and science has been under attack for a long time, but it's gotten really bad during this crisis. 
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Of course there is always a subset of the general public that fit this category.  At the same time, there is no question in my mind that with proper information, messaging and advertising, that subset could be significantly smaller than it is today.

 
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2Squirrels1Nut said:
Just got an email that my kid's school bus driver has Covid. :(
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It has been a week and he has seemed fine.  He has been really scared so obviously so relieved he didn't have any symptoms. 

School just called, the kid that sits next to him on the bus tested Saturday and came back positive today. So now the whole family is quarantining again.  This is the worst. :(

 
Gr00vus said:
Trump signed the bills that allocated additional funding to hospitals for covid 19 treatment. I doubt doctors are grifting the way he would as a result, but if they are, it's his fault for not making sure these bills were without loopholes.
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DO you have much experience with the American Health care system? It is like this EVERYWHERE across the board. Every single week of my life, I hear multiple stories of how patients gets categorized a certain way because "its billable vs. not" or "its more billable (more money) vs. not" or, even worse, how people can't get treated or get dismissed earlier than they should because the system is set up to pay for this but not that or it cuts people off when they clearly shouldn't be. 

The American health system is built on a foundation of corruption and greed and that's the nicest thing that can be said.  

Not to go down that rabbit hole but this is nothing to be pinned on one person or one administration. It has been going this way for a very long time. 

 
Shutout said:
DO you have much experience with the American Health care system? It is like this EVERYWHERE across the board. Every single week of my life, I hear multiple stories of how patients gets categorized a certain way because "its billable vs. not" or "its more billable (more money) vs. not" or, even worse, how people can't get treated or get dismissed earlier than they should because the system is set up to pay for this but not that or it cuts people off when they clearly shouldn't be. 

The American health system is built on a foundation of corruption and greed and that's the nicest thing that can be said.  

Not to go down that rabbit hole but this is nothing to be pinned on one person or one administration. It has been going this way for a very long time. 
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This discussion is specific to campaign claims Trump is making about Covid 19 payments. He authorized the money, it was his responsibility to prevent this kind of abuse from happening via a bill he signed. Beyond that, I haven't seen any supporting evidence to back up his campaign talking point on this anyway.

If you want to have a discussion about general corruption and greed in the healthcare system, there's at least one thread for that in this forum.

 
Gr00vus said:
This discussion is specific to campaign claims Trump is making about Covid 19 payments. He authorized the money, it was his responsibility to prevent this kind of abuse from happening via a bill he signed. Beyond that, I haven't seen any supporting evidence to back up his campaign talking point on this anyway.

If you want to have a discussion about general corruption and greed in the healthcare system, there's at least one thread for that in this forum.
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No discussion to be had. Sounds like you are aware this isn't a "blame one guy" thing, although that is what you are effectively doing. When the president or any number of people who authorize funds for something, they generally do so with a set of guidelines in how to appropriately use the funds but we all know the world has those who will manipulate it to their advantage. 

It is myopic to say because one person authorized it, he literally assumes the entirety of the responsibility of all things that flow from it into totality. That would be saying because you pay for and authorize the purchase of a college tuition for your child and say "use these funds to learn to teach" and  to the institution you say "teach my child", that when that adult child then uses that knowledge to harm someone it is your fault.  

I mean, I guess to a degree most of us can go along with the "head coach is responsible" philosophy and we can fire the HC when the team does poorly but I don't think many of us are naive enough to think it is always truly the answer. 

 
Shutout said:
No discussion to be had. Sounds like you are aware this isn't a "blame one guy" thing, although that is what you are effectively doing. When the president or any number of people who authorize funds for something, they generally do so with a set of guidelines in how to appropriately use the funds but we all know the world has those who will manipulate it to their advantage. 

It is myopic to say because one person authorized it, he literally assumes the entirety of the responsibility of all things that flow from it into totality. That would be saying because you pay for and authorize the purchase of a college tuition for your child and say "use these funds to learn to teach" and  to the institution you say "teach my child", that when that adult child then uses that knowledge to harm someone it is your fault.  

I mean, I guess to a degree most of us can go along with the "head coach is responsible" philosophy and we can fire the HC when the team does poorly but I don't think many of us are naive enough to think it is always truly the answer. 
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He's responsible for making sure the bills he signs don't allow for the kind of abuse he's accusing people of engaging in. That's his job. Complaining about this after the fact is basically holding himself unaccountable and/or admitting he failed in his role in this.

In reality, he's probably lying about the abuse.

Your analogy is bad, by the way. Most analogies are.

 
Shutout said:
DO you have much experience with the American Health care system? It is like this EVERYWHERE across the board. Every single week of my life, I hear multiple stories of how patients gets categorized a certain way because "its billable vs. not" or "its more billable (more money) vs. not" or, even worse, how people can't get treated or get dismissed earlier than they should because the system is set up to pay for this but not that or it cuts people off when they clearly shouldn't be. 

The American health system is built on a foundation of corruption and greed and that's the nicest thing that can be said.  

Not to go down that rabbit hole but this is nothing to be pinned on one person or one administration. It has been going this way for a very long time. 
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Quite a good argument there for getting rid of the greed aspect of capitalism in healthcare and moving to "socialism-based" healthcare for everyone system. Welcome to the Biden/Harris team.

 
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apalmer said:
Quite a good argument there for getting rid of the greed aspect of capitalism in healthcare and moving to "socialism-based" healthcare for everyone system. Welcome to the Biden/Harris team.
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or...we could actually put forth effort to set rules and enforce them instead of rolling over like a dog and surrendering to what is the fatal flaw of socialism in that Socialism believes it can regulate a system that believes it can make better decisions for people than people can make for themselves. 

We tend not to like that. We tend to value our freedom, especially since socialism has been shown to fail in every attempt that has been made to implement it.Even if you tailor that to "democratic socialism" you need look no further than Venezuela to understand how mandated practices simply don't stand the test of time. 

 All in all, American “socialists” have mislabeled their product. The rank-and-file don’t actually desire true socialism, they are merely modern progressives who have much in common with libertarians—except the part about wanting a larger state.  In fact, we think most of the problems identified by socialists, especially poverty and inequality, are a result of too much government—not too little.

 
Yes, we tend to love our freedom except when it comes to social security, Medicare, k-12 education, police, firefighters, etc. 

 
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Shutout said:
 All in all, American “socialists” have mislabeled their product. The rank-and-file don’t actually desire true socialism, they are merely modern progressives who have much in common with libertarians—except the part about wanting a larger state.  In fact, we think most of the problems identified by socialists, especially poverty and inequality, are a result of too much government—not too little.
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It's not the "socialists" who have mislabeled the product. Other than Bernie Sanders, no progressive or liberal calls themself a socialist.  That's a term thrown around by the right to create fear and opposition, returning to the days of the Red Scare.

 
BobbyLayne said:
I believe the stump speech was “you’ll never hear about it November 4.” Which was kind of true.
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To quote “By the way on November fourth you won’t hear about it anymore,”   With daily totals now topping 100,000, I do think we'll all be talking about it through most of next year when a vaccine we can actually trust comes out.  But I'm not President so what do I know...

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
2Squirrels1Nut said:
It has been a week and he has seemed fine.  He has been really scared so obviously so relieved he didn't have any symptoms. 

School just called, the kid that sits next to him on the bus tested Saturday and came back positive today. So now the whole family is quarantining again.  This is the worst. :(
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Son tested negative. Whew.
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Received an e-mail last night that several hundred teachers have tested positive in his district. :(

 
Prinefan said:
To quote “By the way on November fourth you won’t hear about it anymore,”   With daily totals now topping 100,000, I do think we'll all be talking about it through most of next year when a vaccine we can actually trust comes out.  But I'm not President so what do I know...
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yeah, I just meant for November 4th alone it wasn't at the top the news cycle due to the ongoing counts, lawsuits, et al.

PotUS got bored with the Coronavirus TF and how bad the briefings were going, was tired of being cooped up in the WH for 6-7 weeks, shut it down and went back to havIng (superspreader) rallies. Maybe he actually believe his wishcasting musing "one day it will just magically disappear." It's hard to imagine him handling the pandemic worse. Yet here we are. 

You can go back to 2014 and look at the preparations we had in place. He defunded and dismantled what was already in place. Beyond the daily absurdities, I'm sick of having a President who has no interest whatsoever in competence or basic governance.

 
BobbyLayne said:
yeah, I just meant for November 4th alone it wasn't at the top the news cycle due to the ongoing counts, lawsuits, et al.

PotUS got bored with the Coronavirus TF and how bad the briefings were going, was tired of being cooped up in the WH for 6-7 weeks, shut it down and went back to havIng (superspreader) rallies. Maybe he actually believe his wishcasting musing "one day it will just magically disappear." It's hard to imagine him handling the pandemic worse. Yet here we are. 

You can go back to 2014 and look at the preparations we had in place. He defunded and dismantled what was already in place. Beyond the daily absurdities, I'm sick of having a President who has no interest whatsoever in competence or basic governance.
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Lol.  Didn't mean to sound corrective.  I knew where you  were coming from.  Sorry if any offense.  

 
apalmer said:
It's not the "socialists" who have mislabeled the product. Other than Bernie Sanders, no progressive or liberal calls themself a socialist.  That's a term thrown around by the right to create fear and opposition, returning to the days of the Red Scare.
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Nah, he's right. All those "small government" folks that vote (R) all the time are rewarded with a shrinking government that actually spends less whenever their guy(s) get into office. Wait.....

 
Obviously the election was going to dominate the headlines.  It will continue to do so until the results are certified and court challenges are settled but the virus doesn't give a damn about the election.   We are in a very bad place right now ...

 
Bamboo Bill said:
OOF

https://apnews.com/article/counties-worst-virus-surges-voted-trump-d671a483534024b5486715da6edb6ebf?
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Again, totallypredictable.com

Public health interventions (like mask wearing, social distancing, etc.) aren't put in place to to control the people or for political reasons.  They are put in place to prevent spread of an epidemic.  These people that don't adhere to these guidelines and recommendations from experts are being selfish and the rest of the country is in jeopardy (not to mention their local community!) because these people won't listen to experts telling them what to do.  So very sad.

 
The Z Machine said:
Again, totallypredictable.com

Public health interventions (like mask wearing, social distancing, etc.) aren't put in place to to control the people or for political reasons.  They are put in place to prevent spread of an epidemic.  These people that don't adhere to these guidelines and recommendations from experts are being selfish and the rest of the country is in jeopardy (not to mention their local community!) because these people won't listen to experts telling them what to do.  So very sad.
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Well I’m hoping that if we can quiet down the loudest, most disruptive voice we can get more buy in. But it needs to happen soon. Have to slow down the COVID wildfire and get people to act responsibly during the holidays or we’ll his astronomical numbers that will take months to dig out of. I’m not optimistic of our chances because I think a lot of people will be fatigued from 2020 and just give up. 

 
CR69 said:
I am very much looking forward to actually having a (federal) government response to the coronavirus. 
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Problem is, we’re gonna spin our wheels for another couple months, allowing cases to ramp up while we focus inordinate resources on the contested election.

 
Terminalxylem said:
Problem is, we’re gonna spin our wheels for another couple months, allowing cases to ramp up while we focus inordinate resources on the contested election.
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I wonder what the daily infection number will be in mid January.  We're at 120k per day right now.  I wonder if the US could hit 200k / day after Christmas. 

The governors and mayors are gonna have some heavy lifting to do on this in the next few months. 

 
The Z Machine said:
I wonder what the daily infection number will be in mid January.  We're at 120k per day right now.  I wonder if the US could hit 200k / day after Christmas. 

The governors and mayors are gonna have some heavy lifting to do on this in the next few months. 
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Very possible. 2020 has been horrible for everyone and there’s little chance we’re going convince a big chunk of the country to avoid gatherings during the holidays. The lead up to the holidays is probably a lost cause at this point. Unless something drastic happens, the numbers will be horrible when Biden takes over.

 
The Z Machine said:
I wonder what the daily infection number will be in mid January.  We're at 120k per day right now.  I wonder if the US could hit 200k / day after Christmas. 

The governors and mayors are gonna have some heavy lifting to do on this in the next few months. 
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I don't think it'll take that long, sadly. I'd expect the charts to go straight vertical about a week after Thanksgiving. 

 
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