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Government Response To The Coronavirus (5 Viewers)

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Kal El said:
So Trump is supposed to speak on the pandemic at 4 Eastern today. My money is on that he says they're doing a fantastic job, then less than 10 seconds in he starts spouting off about how the election is rigged. It's not even worth hearing what he has to say, he's got 68 days left in office.
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Give me a dime on over 10 seconds and nickle on under 200 seconds.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
So we should get rid of pretty much every law? For example you can use the statements above to describe shoplifting, drinking and driving, even murder.  Of course why we won't is because the vast majority of people are law abiding. It will only take a few examples of people that get arrested for not wearing a mask, if there is a mandate, to get the rest of the non-mask wearing population to fall in line and respect the law like they do every other law. 
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If there is a completely illegal and unenforceable mandate it will totally work!!!

This national mask mandate talk is dumb. Even in North dakota the grocery stores, starbucks, walmart, etc all make you wear a mask. 

You know where they dont wear masks? Restaurants, bars, parties. 

So unless you really think biden will somehow invent masks that will suck beer through them and that FBI agents will kick down doors to arrest non maskers in homes, or that you think people are catching this while hiking at national parks, you are just blowing smoke. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
If there is a completely illegal and unenforceable mandate it will totally work!!!

This national mask mandate talk is dumb. Even in North dakota the grocery stores, starbucks, walmart, etc all make you wear a mask. 

You know where they dont wear masks? Restaurants, bars, parties. 

So unless you really think biden will somehow invent masks that will suck beer through them and that FBI agents will kick down doors to arrest non maskers in homes, or that you think people are catching this while hiking at national parks, you are just blowing smoke. 
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Do you know where people don't wear masks where I live?  Everywhere.

You also completely missed my point which may be on purpose.  There isn't a single law on the books that's 100% enforceable.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws.

fin

 
KarmaPolice said:
I was going to post it in the other thread, but it's more political, so I will put it here.  What I am gathering from going back and forth with these threads and why people are against "lockdowns" and mask mandates, are:

1.  we don't have very good focus on mental health care - access to it and people's ability to deal with situations like this.   I see this a bit that people are now talking about this issue as an unintended consequence of people being at home and without jobs.  

2.  we don't have enough safety nets for people financially.   People can't go without a couple weeks of work, and without a plan for this, people will be hurting.  

Now, we seem to have a political party that seems to focus more on these ideas more than the other historically.  I just find it interesting that the people who seem to be citing these issues as reasons not try stricter policies with masks and limiting the types of businesses being open also seem to be the ones that are on the opposite side of the political spectrum.  These are things that I am also hoping we can step back from and learn from in the upcoming years.  
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I am against a national mask mandate because it is stupid and it will divert debate and attention away from actual possible solutions. 

If we arent going to close down the places and events that are causing this, it is time to start actually talking about ways to mitigate it. 

Making people wear masks at the park is stupid and will increase fatigue. Just telling people to go the park or any other outdoor activity makes more sense. 

Telling people to get air purifiers and giving tax credits for purchaing them and merv 13 filters, etc makes way more sense at this point too. Having more windows open. So many things that make way more sense. 

Biden cant even keep his lame cloth mask up to cough for ffs. 

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
Do you know where people don't wear masks where I live?  Everywhere.

You also completely missed my point which may be on purpose.  There isn't a single law on the books that's 100% enforceable.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws.

fin
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How many laws are there that are 0% enforceable? 

How many are brand new and known to be 0% when people advocate for them? Yeah, ok.

 
Remember when everybody was posting on social media all the infection rates from various cities during 1918 and advocating for interventions? 

Notice how we only talk about quarantines and masks and mostly ignore the best recommendations from then, which was to get outside or make inside->outside. 

Notice how we beach scold people and then shut the beaches down?

Notice how we close parks in some places? 

We should open up every outside place we can. We should encourage any outdoor sporting activity we can. 

Worried people would congregate in bathrooms nearby? Fine, build some open air louvred porta-potties. 

Or we can hire 1000 more contact tracers to leave voicemails, mandate masks, and do more testing. Yay! Thats going great. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
I am against a national mask mandate because it is stupid and it will divert debate and attention away from actual possible solutions. 

If we arent going to close down the places and events that are causing this, it is time to start actually talking about ways to mitigate it. 

Making people wear masks at the park is stupid and will increase fatigue. Just telling people to go the park or any other outdoor activity makes more sense. 

Telling people to get air purifiers and giving tax credits for purchaing them and merv 13 filters, etc makes way more sense at this point too. Having more windows open. So many things that make way more sense. 

Biden cant even keep his lame cloth mask up to cough for ffs. 
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Shouldn't be hard to do both.  I have 0 idea why restaurants and bars are open (for dine in customers) while the cases are spiking.   

Mask mandates at least give a sense of overall expectations.   No it's not a cure, but it helps and is not "stupid" as you call it.  At the very least it might mitigate 1/2 the population from feeling enabled to go into businesses and throw a fit if they have to have a mask on.  We have seen this way too much at our restaurant, but we have also been told by ownership not to engage them.  

Just curious - where are you suggesting all these air purifiers for? Offices, etc?  

 
parasaurolophus said:
Remember when everybody was posting on social media all the infection rates from various cities during 1918 and advocating for interventions? 

Notice how we only talk about quarantines and masks and mostly ignore the best recommendations from then, which was to get outside or make inside->outside. 

Notice how we beach scold people and then shut the beaches down?

Notice how we close parks in some places? 

We should open up every outside place we can. We should encourage any outdoor sporting activity we can. 

Worried people would congregate in bathrooms nearby? Fine, build some open air louvred porta-potties. 

Or we can hire 1000 more contact tracers to leave voicemails, mandate masks, and do more testing. Yay! Thats going great. 
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What do you mean that's going great? Where has that been implemented in the U.S.?

 
parasaurolophus said:
Remember when everybody was posting on social media all the infection rates from various cities during 1918 and advocating for interventions? 

Notice how we only talk about quarantines and masks and mostly ignore the best recommendations from then, which was to get outside or make inside->outside. 

Notice how we beach scold people and then shut the beaches down?

Notice how we close parks in some places? 

We should open up every outside place we can. We should encourage any outdoor sporting activity we can. 

Worried people would congregate in bathrooms nearby? Fine, build some open air louvred porta-potties. 

Or we can hire 1000 more contact tracers to leave voicemails, mandate masks, and do more testing. Yay! Thats going great. 
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Being outside and away from each other helps.  Not sure huge crowded beaches and concerts are what you are advocating for.   

My understanding was people couldn't be trusted to stay the F away from each other at parks, beaches, etc..  so they started getting shut down.  

 
shader said:
Did he not announce 20m vaccines in December?  Seems pretty good if you ask me.  This is great news.
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That's assuming the vaccine has been approved and is ready, which would likely be record time for a vaccine. Of course, Trump's been touting a vaccine for months with bupkis to show for it.

 
Kal El said:
That's assuming the vaccine has been approved and is ready, which would likely be record time for a vaccine. Of course, Trump's been touting a vaccine for months with bupkis to show for it.
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He’s been saying a vaccine is coming, and now a vaccine is on the horizon.  Might be good to sit this one out. There’s a pandemic and a vaccine is sorely needed. Not the time for partisan garbage

 
apalmer said:
Yeah, but he wasn't clear if that included all the doses that would be available by election day.
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Who gives a crap about that.  Biden won. Can you guys stop whining about trump long enough to celebrate a vaccine that could get people out of this mess? Unreal.  

 
shader said:
He’s been saying a vaccine is coming, and now a vaccine is on the horizon.  Might be good to sit this one out. There’s a pandemic and a vaccine is sorely needed. Not the time for partisan garbage
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I am thrilled with a vaccine being available if it helps bring this pandemic down. What I am not thrilled with is a president who basically led people on for months, when vaccines just don't happen that quickly. Of course, there's still the matter of everything else he messed up with his lack of a response to Covid.

 
shader said:
Kal El said:
That's assuming the vaccine has been approved and is ready, which would likely be record time for a vaccine. Of course, Trump's been touting a vaccine for months with bupkis to show for it.
Click to expand...
He’s been saying a vaccine is coming, and now a vaccine is on the horizon.  Might be good to sit this one out. There’s a pandemic and a vaccine is sorely needed. Not the time for partisan garbage
Click to expand...
I'd love to be able to put aside my disdain for the man and celebrate this, but its very hard with his unbearable self-congratulatory grandstanding.  He's not even celebrating it himself, only congratulating himself and awkwardly trying to use this to dunk on his perceive enemies. Leaders from all over the world are calling him to say its unbelievable what he's done and no one else could have done this; anyone else would have taken 5 years or more to get this done; repeating several times that Pfizer was mistaken when they said they were not part of the warp speed program; oh by the way I will not let my enemies use the vaccine, they won't be getting it oh no, etc. etc. ad nauseum.  Its pathetic and disgusting and unfortunately completely normal from this psycho.

Perhaps most importantly, he lies so consistently about just about everything, how can anyone possibly believe anything he's saying about this vaccine, how effective it is, or when it will be available?  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Being outside and away from each other helps.  Not sure huge crowded beaches and concerts are what you are advocating for.   

My understanding was people couldn't be trusted to stay the F away from each other at parks, beaches, etc..  so they started getting shut down.  
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I am advocating that crowded beaches or parks are not a reason to shut them down.

 
Kao-Lin said:
Looking at rt.live VT is a dumpster fire right now.. As are NY, CA, IL, ME, OR.  States that crushed personal liberty in the effort to curb the virus.  My lowly country bumpkin state, AL, has continued to have a transmission record better than those states while largely retaining personal freedoms (though we were very early on the mask mandate).  I'm confused on the love for VT here.
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If you look at the 2wk new case per capita data the "dumpster fires" are North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Utah, Mississippi, Idaho, Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana, and Arkansas. Of those dirty dozen that are currently doing the worst job in fighting Covid right now I'm not sure if you notice but ELEVEN of the TWELVE voted trump in the last election.....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/

So now let's look at the states that are doing the best job with new cases over the past 2wk per capita. That list is Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Oregon, Washington, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Ohio, Connecticut, California, Colorado, Michigan, Massachusetts, D.C., Maryland, New York, and Delaware. Of those TWENTY(obviously not all of them are states) as you can see only ONE leaned for trump. 

If all that is too hard to follow here are a couple of maps for you to look at...

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/01/816707182/map-tracking-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus-in-the-u-s

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days

It's funny how those maps fairly closely resemble another map that we have seen in the past two weeks. Probably just a coincidence. Just like you creating an alia.... I mean an "account" on November 4th. A lot of coincidences flying around.

 
Upcoming changes in Virginia:
 

The following measures will take effect at midnight on Sunday:

Reduction in public and private gatherings: All public and private in-person gatherings must be limited to 25 individuals, down from the current cap of 250 people. This includes outdoor and indoor settings.

Expansion of mask mandate: All Virginians aged five and over are required to wear face coverings in indoor public spaces. This expands the current mask mandate, which has been in place in Virginia since May 29 and requires all individuals aged 10 and over to wear face coverings in indoor public settings.

Strengthened enforcement within essential retail businesses: All essential retail businesses, including grocery stores and pharmacies, must adhere to statewide guidelines for physical distancing, wearing face coverings, and enhanced cleaning. While certain essential retail businesses have been required to adhere to these regulations as a best practice, violations will now be enforceable through the Virginia Department of Health as a Class One misdemeanor.

On-site alcohol curfew: The on-site sale, consumption, and possession of alcohol is prohibited after 10:00 p.m. in any restaurant, dining establishment, food court, brewery, microbrewery, distillery, winery, or tasting room. All restaurants, dining establishments, food courts, breweries, microbreweries, distilleries, wineries, and tasting rooms must close by midnight. Virginia law does not distinguish between restaurants and bars, however, under current restrictions, individuals that choose to consume alcohol prior to 10:00 p.m. must be served as in a restaurant and remain seated at tables six feet apart.
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CletiusMaximus said:
I'd love to be able to put aside my disdain for the man and celebrate this, but its very hard with his unbearable self-congratulatory grandstanding.  He's not even celebrating it himself, only congratulating himself and awkwardly trying to use this to dunk on his perceive enemies. Leaders from all over the world are calling him to say its unbelievable what he's done and no one else could have done this; anyone else would have taken 5 years or more to get this done; repeating several times that Pfizer was mistaken when they said they were not part of the warp speed program; oh by the way I will not let my enemies use the vaccine, they won't be getting it oh no, etc. etc. ad nauseum.  Its pathetic and disgusting and unfortunately completely normal from this psycho.

Perhaps most importantly, he lies so consistently about just about everything, how can anyone possibly believe anything he's saying about this vaccine, how effective it is, or when it will be available?  
Click to expand...
He actually said he wouldn't let his enemies get the vaccine? And who exactly are  his enemies?

 
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