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Government Response To The Coronavirus (3 Viewers)

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The Commish said:
I'm not entirely sure where he's going with that comment.  His statement is true in this very moment but it's absolutely going to change as time moves on, so I'm not sure of the point unless it's his belief that what he stated is going to remain consistent which is incredibly unlikely.
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Me neither. All I'm saying that that number is not constant, not least in an environment where the healthcare system is severely stressed

 
jon_mx said:
Yes, we know 5,000 people have died.  We also know 60,000,000 people are going to die this year from other causes.  We can not #### can our entire economy for every reason 5,000 people have died, no matter how tragic and bleeding heart you think that sounds.  We must live our lives.  Should we ban cars because 40,000 people die on our highways.  COME ON, PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!  No, we must live our lives and take measured reasonable actions based on the danger.  
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As it was asked earlier - how many people must die before you think it is a problem?

 
sho nuff said:
No...we don't ban cars...but have taken major measures over the year to make them safer...even if it wasn't always the most cost effective means of doing things.
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But that is my point.  We are not making things safer, we are shutting things down.  

 
JAA said:
jon_mx said:
Yes, we know 5,000 people have died.  We also know 60,000,000 people are going to die this year from other causes.  We can not #### can our entire economy for every reason 5,000 people have died, no matter how tragic and bleeding heart you think that sounds.  We must live our lives.  Should we ban cars because 40,000 people die on our highways.  COME ON, PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!  No, we must live our lives and take measured reasonable actions based on the danger.  
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As it was asked earlier - how many people must die before you think it is a problem?
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Well I think they believe that measures should NOT be taken until we surpass car deaths at least.  Maybe close to 40K is their number?

 
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jon_mx said:
But that is my point.  We are not making things safer, we are shutting things down.  
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Please detail the actions that should be taken re corona virus analogous to making cars safer over the years - rather than the current measures

 
toshiba said:
Well I think they believe that measures should NOT be taken until we surpass car deaths at least.  Maybe close to 40K is their number?
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You guys continue to mis-characterize the arguments.  One strawman after another.   There is a huge difference in saying take no measures and take more reasonable cost-effective measures.  

 
jon_mx said:
But that is my point.  We are not making things safer, we are shutting things down.  
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Which slows the spread...which flattens the curve...which hopefully minimizes the strain on out hospitals.

That is making things safer jon...you admitted earlier the actions are working or work.  So how is it not making it safer?

 
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He's going to declare a national emergency at 3pm Eastern. Is there any chance he doesn't brag about how fast he's moving (which is wrong) and continue pushing lies about Obama's reaction to swine flu? That certainly seems to be MAGA's current tactic. 

 
What are we arguing?

Kudlow said it was already contained.

Trump said it was less than five and almost down to zero.

And now jon_mx giving you his stamp of "live your life".

Move along, nothing to see here folks.

 
msommer said:
Please detail the actions that should be taken re corona virus analogous to making cars safer over the years - rather than the current measures
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Our efforts should be on washing hands, wearing masks, producing tests, and protecting high-risk people.  College students are not the danger crowd.  Shutting down classes, cancelling games is not going to help.  College kids are going to interact and be active regardless.   Manage activities which expose high risk people.  

 
sho nuff said:
Which slows the spread...which flattens the curve...which hopefully minumizes the strain on out hospitals.

That is making things safer jon...you admitted earlier the actions are working or work.  So how is it not making it safer?
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Shutting down is equivalent to banning cars.....which is different than making them safer.  That is what I meant by saying you are not (just) making them safer.  I left out the 'just' part, but I thought it was implied.  

 
jon_mx said:
Our efforts should be on washing hands, wearing masks, producing tests, and protecting high-risk people.  College students are not the danger crowd.  Shutting down classes, cancelling games is not going to help.  College kids are going to interact and be active regardless.   Manage activities which expose high risk people.  
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Wearing masks?  Yeah...thats not what would help.

https://time.com/5794729/coronavirus-face-masks/?
 

Its rhetoric like this that is dangerous and leads to more spread.  Please...leave it to experts who have said the measures being taken are needed rather than spreading misinformation.

 
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jon_mx said:
But that is my point.  We are not making things safer, we are shutting things down.  
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Unless you are a completely ####ty car like the Pinto in the 70's produced by and controlled by ####ty people.  Then you did.

Imagine if Honda or Ford found out there was an issue where the airbags didn't work on their new 2020 models and instead of actually giving a recall warning and not selling their cars they tell people that it only didn't work half of the time or that it wasn't a big deal or saying that the other companies are lying to make them feel bad.

 
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jon_mx said:
Shutting down is equivalent to banning cars.....which is different than making them safer.  That is what I meant by saying you are not (just) making them safer.  I left out the 'just' part, but I thought it was implied.  
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We aren't shut down jon.  Closing off some events and mass gatherings isn't shutting down.

And yes...it is making us safer.  Please stop acting as if you are some expert...

 
jon_mx said:
Yes, we know 5,000 people have died.  We also know 60,000,000 people are going to die this year from other causes.  We can not #### can our entire economy for every reason 5,000 people have died, no matter how tragic and bleeding heart you think that sounds.  We must live our lives.  Should we ban cars because 40,000 people die on our highways.  COME ON, PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!  No, we must live our lives and take measured reasonable actions based on the danger.  
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Not trying to pile on. I missed if you had said what these would be. 

What does this mean and what being done is considered unreasonable for you?

 
Honest question: what has the federal government done to help stop the spread of the virus? 

  • Testing is woefully inadequate.
  • travel bans are not containment efforts, they are prevention efforts. 
  • economic stimulus does not stop the spread.
Events have been canceled by private entities and state governments.  WFH comes from private businesses.  NBA/NCAA/NHL/etc - all private business decisions.

I mean, it's certainly good that we aren't depending on the federal government to do things, but what role has the federal government played so far?

 
msommer said:
Senegal can process in 4 hours....
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Here’s an article from today about a new Roche test which just received emergency approval. It’s “ten times faster” than the current test says the headline. In the article it says it will take 4 fours. So the current tests take 40 hours?

(which still doesn’t explain throughput, only lag time for results)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-13/roche-gets-clearance-for-coronavirus-test-that-s-10-times-faster

 
moleculo said:
Honest question: what has the federal government done to help stop the spread of the virus? 

  • Testing is woefully inadequate.
  • travel bans are not containment efforts, they are prevention efforts. 
  • economic stimulus does not stop the spread.
Events have been canceled by private entities and state governments.  WFH comes from private businesses.  NBA/NCAA/NHL/etc - all private business decisions.

I mean, it's certainly good that we aren't depending on the federal government to do things, but what role has the federal government played so far?
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Good question.

:blackdot:

 
sho nuff said:
We aren't shut down jon.  Closing off some events and mass gatherings isn't shutting down.

And yes...it is making us safer.  Please stop acting as if you are some expert...
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First don't tell me how to act.  We are having a discussion.  If that offends you and can't participate in discussions with alternative viewpoints, that is on you.  I may not be a health pandemic expert, as is no one in here, but I can look at the world wide numbers and see how it has spread and question how much harm we can do to our economy and discuss if it really is worth it to fight the somewhat known threat. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
Here’s an article from today about a new Roche test which just received emergency approval. It’s “ten times faster” than the current test says the headline. In the article it says it will take 4 fours. So the current tests take 40 hours?

(which still doesn’t explain throughput, only lag time for results)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-13/roche-gets-clearance-for-coronavirus-test-that-s-10-times-faster
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We have tested less people than Vietnam. SMH

 
jon_mx said:
Shutting down is equivalent to banning cars.....which is different than making them safer.  That is what I meant by saying you are not (just) making them safer.  I left out the 'just' part, but I thought it was implied.  
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A better equivalence is a recall.  If you find a defect in a car that makes the public less safe, you issue a recall which makes them safer.  

 
The General said:
Not trying to pile on. I missed if you had said what these would be. 

What does this mean and what being done is considered unreasonable for you?
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I think cancelling basketball games and all outings of more than 250 people is pretty unreasonable.   This could be managed much better without all the panic.  

 
The General said:
We have tested less people than Vietnam. SMH
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Off topic but I have a good friend who has been teaching there for a decade. He loves their single payer health care. Wait times, sure, but the doctors are super thorough, never feels rushed like in for profit systems.

 
moleculo said:
A better equivalence is a recall.  If you find a defect in a car that makes the public less safe, you issue a recall which makes them safer.  
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Cancelling classes, NCAA tournament, NBA games, all other outings greater than 250 people is not a recall.  It is a ban, albeit for some unknown temporary period.  

 
Russian Market

@russian_market

GREECE TO SHUT DOWN SHOPPING MALLS, CAFES, BARS TO STEM SPREAD OF CORONAVIRUS

9:30 AM · Mar 13, 2020·TweetDeck

 
jon_mx said:
I think cancelling basketball games and all outings of more than 250 people is pretty unreasonable.   This could be managed much better without all the panic.  
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So just to be clear, you think it’s a good idea to continue gatherings of 20,000+. Today.

 
The General said:
How so? What would you do for say the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
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You could size-limit the crowds to say 50 percent.  You could educated older people and people at risk on not going to such events.  You can educate people on staying home if they are sick.  You could screen people for fever.   

 
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