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Government Response To The Coronavirus (8 Viewers)

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My 12 year old was in the room last night while I was watching the nightly news.  He hears Trump say, "National Emergency...two very big words" and "I think I will be tested...not for that reason but because I think I will do it anyway," and bursts out laughing.  Children are laughing at our 'leader'.  He's such an embarrassment.    
I have children in middle and high school and according to them there are close to zero Trump supporters amongst the children because they see him for what he is.  

 
I'm not sure what you're going for here.  
Suggesting it was China's fault contradicting his earlier statement that "it's nobody's fault" - trying to shift blame and avoid any responsibility of himself and his administration (like he did yesterday saying "I don't take responsibility at all" for slow rolling out of virus testing).

 
Not to take over the thread with this topic, but even if all your arguments are correct, the “major problem” is with the right. They have needed for quite some time to come up with reasonable free market solutions to counter some of these leftist solutions, but they haven’t. As with so many other issues in the last 50 years, the right is devoid of solutions of their own making; all they seem to want to do is say “slow down” or simply “stop” before being inevitably dragged towards whatever the left wants to accomplish. Our entire history over the last 100 years is one liberal solution after another with conservatives hitting the brakes  once in a while but eventually moving in the same direction. Climate change will be no different. 
The problem with your arguement is that you assume left-right/liberal-conservative is some kind of constant definition and the same people.  What the left and right stand for are constantly changing and people change sides and arguments change.  What was considered liberalism 50 years ago is conservative today.  You give credit for any positive change to liberals and ignore or maybe even blame conservatives for negative changes.   Are you going to credit liberalism with prohibition?  Not every change is positive. 

 
Separation of church and state. Talking about praying did not need to interjected into this press conference. 
Know that I'm an atheist and the most anti religious person in this forum I know when I tell you that this post is disgusting and really shows your true colors. If you were listening he clearly left it open to all people regardless of faith and called for people to come together. So Ben, me and most other Americans are going to do what it takes to do our part in beating this crisis in real life why you sit alone in your little corner taking jabs at people you dont know, who arent your friends in your imaginary fantasy world. 

 
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Know that I'm an atheist and the most anti religious person in this forum I know when I tell you that this post is disgusting and really shows your true colors. If you were listening he clearly left it open to all people regardless of faith and called for people to come together. So Ben, me and most other Americans are going to do what it takes to do our part in beating this crisis in real life why you sit alone in your little corner taking jabs at people you dont know, who arent your friends in your imaginary fantasy world. 
Yes. My true colors are that I believe in the Constitution, of the separation of church and state. I feel that the introduction of the subject of religion at all (particularly talking about a national day of prayer) should have no part in any presidential press conference, let alone one of this importance. 

 
Michael David Smith

@MichaelDavSmith

Just to make sure everyone understands: "I'm still doing [activity in large crowd] because I understand the risk and I'm willing to take it" is bull####. This isn't skydiving. You're not just risking your own health. You're risking everyone else's health if you spread the virus.

 
Believing your president and listening to Fox News or other right wing media will be deadly for many people.

This is what happens when misinformation, propaganda, and lies from these sources meets with a real crisis.  Those who pay the most attention to right wing media will not be prepared, and they're mostly older folks.  Same thing with Trump.

Their belief in what has clearly been falsehoods is going to be fatal for many of them.  This is terrible...

 
Michael David Smith

@MichaelDavSmith

Just to make sure everyone understands: "I'm still doing [activity in large crowd] because I understand the risk and I'm willing to take it" is bull####. This isn't skydiving. You're not just risking your own health. You're risking everyone else's health if you spread the virus.
Agreed but I’m still not clear what a “large crowd” is. First I heard was hundreds of people, then 250 was a number thrown out a lot. Now I’m hearing, anecdotally, my daughter shouldn’t rehearse her dance recital because 25 girls in a room is too many. Which is fine if it’s true. But is it true? I don’t know. 

 
Serious question: if I decide next week to drive to Vegas and hang out by the pool with 50 other people doing the same thing, eat out at restaurants, am I risking people’s health? Not making an argument; I have no idea. 

 
Serious question: if I decide next week to drive to Vegas and hang out by the pool with 50 other people doing the same thing, eat out at restaurants, am I risking people’s health? Not making an argument; I have no idea. 
Yes because even if you don't have it now you could get it then spread it.

 
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Agreed but I’m still not clear what a “large crowd” is. First I heard was hundreds of people, then 250 was a number thrown out a lot. Now I’m hearing, anecdotally, my daughter shouldn’t rehearse her dance recital because 25 girls in a room is too many. Which is fine if it’s true. But is it true? I don’t know. 
25 is probably a judgment call, IMO,.   A movie theater, church service, or similar is too many.  Certainly an amusement park.

 
Fair enough. Didn’t realize that this was too many people. But if that’s the case I won’t do it 
Serious answer.  2 people is too many if one of them is infected.  250 people is fine if none of them are.  Unfortunately, because we can't know for certain, we need to impose reasonable limits (by law or self isolation).  Everyone realizes that "250" or "100" are arbitrary numbers, but no more or less than "249" or "101", and it makes more sense to choose a number than no number at all when setting official policy.  For personal decisions, you have to make your own number.  I'd rather hang out with 5 people that I know are taking this seriously and not also going to large gatherings than 1 person who was at a large concert last night.

 
One problem I foresee is daycare centers. I imagine that for people with young kids they’re in greater demand than ever with schools being shut down. 

 
My wife and I are planning to go to a casual restaurant tonight with our extended family. I'm taking this seriously but not prepared to board up the house and hunker down in isolation just yet.

 
One problem I foresee is daycare centers. I imagine that for people with young kids they’re in greater demand than ever with schools being shut down. 
Speaking of which - the "local" YMCA is actually several Y's around Lexington.

I just got an email stating that they are closing down 3 of them - so they can be used specifically for child care for healthcare professionals.

"Effective close of business today, several of our locations will close and transition to provide emergency school-age child care to support doctors, nurses, technicians, and medical staff with caring for their children during this crisis. They will not have to worry that their child is in a safe place, as they care for members of our community. "

:thumbup:

 
France is closing all restaurants. 

How soon before we take this step? 
Mon Dieu!

I don't see that happening here, the wait people are going to get killed as it is with the dropoff in business and corresponding tips. And this would probably force many small restaurants out of business (not sure they will  all survive anyway depending on how long this lasts). 

It could happen though, drastic measures are often taken in a national crisis (see Japanese internment during WW2). 

 
Mon Dieu!

I don't see that happening here, the wait people are going to get killed as it is with the dropoff in business and corresponding tips. And this would probably force many small restaurants out of business (not sure they will  all survive anyway depending on how long this lasts). 

It could happen though, drastic measures are often taken in a national crisis (see Japanese internment during WW2). 
Japanese internment was limited to the west coast and affected a very small percentage of people. We’ve never taken measures this drastic (as closing all restaurants). 

 
Japanese internment was limited to the west coast and affected a very small percentage of people. We’ve never taken measures this drastic (as closing all restaurants). 
I don’t see how the economy can survive a shutdown this comprehensive, were that to happen.

 
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It’s amazing how quickly this is moving. 
Math doesn't care about whether we understand it or not.

Exponential growth describes how epidemics work.  The trendlines are remarkably consistent...only drastic social measures prevent the exponential growth, and we're far behind the curve, so to speak.

 
One problem I foresee is daycare centers. I imagine that for people with young kids they’re in greater demand than ever with schools being shut down. 
My wife is over a business that has a day school attached.

Our state recently closed all K-12 schools until mid-april, yet no requirements were made of day schools.

I suggested that it only remain open for those first responders...police, fire, healthcare workers, etc.  But who knows what'll happen.  I can't see any sense in keeping them open while K-12 is closed.

 
Math doesn't care about whether we understand it or not.

Exponential growth describes how epidemics work.  The trendlines are remarkably consistent...only drastic social measures prevent the exponential growth, and we're far behind the curve, so to speak.
I get the epidemic math, been all over it, I meant the shutdowns and quarantines.

 
I get the epidemic math, been all over it, I meant the shutdowns and quarantines.
Yeah, wasn't being critical of you.  More about the rest of the folks out there.

Lots of ignoring what's going on until you reach the high slope of the exponential curve, which is where we are.  THat's what's causing changes in public behavior among government officials.  THey're seeing the cases...the testing is way behind, but they're getting reports of what's really going on, from front-line hospitals and healthcare facilities.

The time to act was in the past, but every day that goes by is a worse time to act.

 
Ben Carson is talking about the National Day of Prayer.   :rolleyes:
To whom are we supposed to pray, the imaginary god who created the coronavirus or the imaginary god who does nothing to stop it?

Glorious Leader just tweeted that this Sunday will be a “national day of prayer” against the coronavirus. Which should be just about as effective as everything else he’s done so far. 

An exercise in religious superstition and ignorance, a National Day of Prayer is more than just an insult to common sense and reason, it is a clear violation of the Establishment Clause to the First Amendment of the US Constitution. As such, a National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional: it is nothing less than a government endorsement of religion.

 
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Yeah, wasn't being critical of you.  More about the rest of the folks out there.

Lots of ignoring what's going on until you reach the high slope of the exponential curve, which is where we are.  THat's what's causing changes in public behavior among government officials.  THey're seeing the cases...the testing is way behind, but they're getting reports of what's really going on, from front-line hospitals and healthcare facilities.

The time to act was in the past, but every day that goes by is a worse time to act.
The last two weeks were crucial and the USA totally dropped the ball.  Which was why anyone that has followed this from the start was dumbfounded at the press conference. 
 

Now, they will have to shut the whole economy down to stop it.

 
The last two weeks were crucial and the USA totally dropped the ball.  Which was why anyone that has followed this from the start was dumbfounded at the press conference. 
 

Now, they will have to shut the whole economy down to stop it.
I've been following this from the start as well.  I agree we've dropped the ball.

Honestly though, all the tools we've ever had on this was to flatten the curve.  Delay how long it takes to have people get sick.  Until a vaccine is out the population will be vulnerable.

And supposedly the second wave, lets say come October, will be more virulent and deadly.

So basically, this was going to kick all of our asses, especially the older folks, and kill many many folks.  We can shut down and do extreme measures and kick the can down the road, or we can slow it down and just spread the pain out over time, and with all of that, we still face a really tough 2020/2021 flu season with this in the mix, all before a vaccine is out.

There were no magic bullets...just a bad option and a terrible option.  We seem to have opted for the terrible option and we're belatedly trying to claw back to the inbetween option of just really bad.

 
I think this does spell the end for Trump.

He's not going to be able to backtrack on his response early on and feel like this is going to affect enough people of all political persuasions, that they will remember his ignorance here.

He's been slightly better lately and think some of the moves he is starting to make are fine but the early message is going to prevail.

Not to mention the one thing he could cling to, the economy, is not going to recover for a while.  We know the market is tanking and unemployment will start climbing in the not too distant future too.  

 
I think this does spell the end for Trump.

He's not going to be able to backtrack on his response early on and feel like this is going to affect enough people of all political persuasions, that they will remember his ignorance here.

He's been slightly better lately and think some of the moves he is starting to make are fine but the early message is going to prevail.

Not to mention the one thing he could cling to, the economy, is not going to recover for a while.  We know the market is tanking and unemployment will start climbing in the not too distant future too.  
Is it a coincidence that he got better when the stock market began to really tank? That's all he talks about is how the market is responding.

 
Spoke with a friend living in Italy. She said they’re not allowed to go anywhere except when it’s an absolute necessity - prescription from the drug store or pickup groceries. The entire country is on complete lockdown.

My Saturday morning. No hot meals today, just in n out to pickup a to go bag plus groceries. No tables for guests to relax at, we prayed with them outside. Attendance wS off 50%, but we thought it was important to show up for the most vulnerable.

Saw some people out and about but nothing at all like a typical Saturday. When I got on my subway to go home at 1pm, I had the car to myself - from Union Square.

 
My sister is on a trip to Ireland and just group chatted that she's being quarantined.  Our Christian conservative siblings all chime in with a bunch of memes poking fun at the panic and hysteria.  These are the majority of Christians in this country.  Not an ounce of concern.  Just politically based tribalism.  It's so sad what they've become.  
The crazy thing is that those most at risk are the very people who deny this is a problem.

The entire rest of the population is working hard, screaming, imploring them to take this seriously...and if they get their way, fewer of those who don't take it seriously will die.

It's an odd dynamic.  Trying to convince folks that the ship is sinking that they're on, and they are saying because they don't see water yet in their cabin that all is well.

 
played golf today with a friend who has been a borderline Trump supporter.  not hard core but probably would still vote for him.  he was actually a little more doomsday-ish than me which surprised me.  the last thing he said on the subject was: "I had no idea Pence was that stupid"

 
Our Christian conservative siblings all chime in with a bunch of memes poking fun at the panic and hysteria.  These are the majority of Christians in this country.  Not an ounce of concern.  Just politically based tribalism.  It's so sad what they've become.  
Some

I wouldn’t presume the majority, and in fact I don’t know anyone in NYC who feels that way

(my life is anchored around the church & serving across denominational lines - immodestly I would say I’m attuned to what believers in the city are feeling rn) 

 
Some

I wouldn’t presume the majority, and in fact I don’t know anyone in NYC who feels that way

(my life is anchored around the church & serving across denominational lines - immodestly I would say I’m attuned to what believers in the city are feeling rn) 
I live in the south and am more plugged into what Christians in this area are thinking than most.  Many, especially older white folks, don't take this seriously.  Churches are cancelling services, and pastors are getting considerable pushback from folks who think it's media driven panic and that they shouldn't shut down.  "There hasn't been a case in our city yet...why are we cancelling?"  "This decision is being driven by fear and not by what's best for the church."  "Perhaps we should wait another week because financially I'm not sure our church can sustain the hit from being closed for several weeks." "I know you, as a pastor, have small kids but the fear for them is no reason to stop the rest of us from meeting as we've done for decades."  "I have faith that we will be protected...and faith overcomes all things"...

On and on, folks not taking this situation seriously, in churches where the average age is over 60 and the number of infirm people in that age range is reasonably high.

 
played golf today with a friend who has been a borderline Trump supporter.  not hard core but probably would still vote for him.  he was actually a little more doomsday-ish than me which surprised me.  the last thing he said on the subject was: "I had no idea Pence was that stupid"
Trump is the one that said 15 cases, should be down to 0 soon.  

But i'm sure that isn't his fault either.

 
We can't know so I'll back off my statement, but I will say that given the vast evangelical support for Trump and what I'm seeing said by those in my circles, I feel pretty good about saying majority.  I'm glad to hear it's different in your circles though.  
I’ve posted here often on this issue - it’s baffling to me how anyone who loves Jesus can align themselves with this President.

 
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