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"Ally Ranking" For America in 2020 - Russia and China? (1 Viewer)

What Is The "Ally Ranking" For China In 2020?

  • 1 - Extremely Close Ally

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 3

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • 4

    Votes: 3 4.2%

  • 5

    Votes: 10 13.9%

  • 6

    Votes: 7 9.7%

  • 7

    Votes: 21 29.2%

  • 8

    Votes: 15 20.8%

  • 9

    Votes: 8 11.1%

  • 10 - Completely Opposed To The US

    Votes: 6 8.3%
  • Total voters
    72
Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

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One of the fascinating things to me in how tribal politics have become is how we view "Allies". When it seems that the people on one side want to be more friendly with a country, the usual reaction from the other side seems to be taking the opposite position. 

It had me wondering how people see other countries, specifically Russia and China, on the "Ally Ranking". I'm sure there are political scientists that have a measure for this kind of thing. For my purposes, I'm going to make it a scale of 1 (completely supportive of the US) to 10 (completely opposed to the US).

A country that was our closest ally would be a 1. A country that we're at war with would be a 10.

And I get there's a ton of nuance involved that isn't addressed by a number on a range. And I get that it's a two way street. We may want to be more aligned with a country than they do with with us. But I'm just looking for general takes here. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
That's why I said what I said about political scientists and real terms.

I'm not asking that. I'm asking what I'm asking here. 
Click to expand...
Thanks, I realized that. But I am guessing it's an impossible question. It's like if your neighbor has a rifle nest in the window across the yard from your kitchen. He also lends you his hardware and gardening equipment all the time and he moves his car so you can park in front. Golly, would you say he's an adversary, a good neighbor, or what?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Thanks, I realized that. But I am guessing it's an impossible question. It's like if your neighbor has a rifle nest in the window across the yard from your kitchen. He also lends you his hardware and gardening equipment all the time and he moves his car so you can park in front. Golly, would you say he's an adversary, a good neighbor, or what?
Click to expand...
Good neighbor, but I might invest in bullet proof glass with the money I am saving from borrowing his lawn mower.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Thanks, I realized that. But I am guessing it's an impossible question. It's like if your neighbor has a rifle nest in the window across the yard from your kitchen. He also lends you his hardware and gardening equipment all the time and he moves his car so you can park in front. Golly, would you say he's an adversary, a good neighbor, or what?
Click to expand...
I didn't say it was an easy question. 

I addressed that too in the OP. 

And I get there's a ton of nuance involved that isn't addressed by a number on a range. And I get that it's a two way street. We may want to be more aligned with a country than they do with with us. But I'm just looking for general takes here.
Click to expand...
Are you just trying to argue? I usually try to anticipate things people will complain about and went out of my to specifically address both the things you brought up in the original post.

I think it's helpful to get a take on what people are thinking. I realize it's not an easy question. But I also don't think it's great when someone asks "How much of an ally is China? or How aligned are we with China?" that the answer is just :shrug:  

 
Joe Bryant said:
Are you just trying to argue? I usually try to anticipate things people will complain about and went out of my to specifically address both the things you brought up in the original post.

I think it's helpful to get a take on what people are thinking. I realize it's not an easy question. But I also don't think it's great when someone asks "How much of an ally is China? or How aligned are we with China?" that the answer is just :shrug:  
Click to expand...
Hey of course not. I thought the statement answered itself. My point is Russia has 6000+ warheads aimed at us, under no circumstances are they anything other than an adversary, same is true for China (though fewer warheads). 

We're obviously not at war with them but clearly using that as a standard for 10 ("A country that we're at war with would be a 10.") our being in the state we're at 9 with both.

I honestly don't think the idea we're "aligned" with either of them in any way is a serious question. I'm not being difficult or sarcastic in any way when I say that. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Hey of course not. I thought the statement answered itself. My point is Russia has 6000+ warheads aimed at us, under no circumstances are they anything other than an adversary, same is true for China (though fewer warheads). 

We're obviously not at war with them but clearly using that as a standard for 10 ("A country that we're at war with would be a 10.") our being in the state we're at 9 with both.

I honestly don't think the idea we're "aligned" with either of them in any way is a serious question. I'm not being difficult or sarcastic in any way when I say that. 
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear you think that. I don't have time to ask questions I don't think are serious.

 
And if you think both China and Russia are equally completely opposed to us, then the answer for both countries would be a 10.

 
Russia is a 10 as long an Putin is in charge.  His primary goal is to destroy western democracies, especially the U.S.   That's pretty much the only way to keep his kleptocracy going.

China is harder.   I said 7 but I could maybe be convinced to bring that down a little.  I believe they're playing the long game and know they need to work with us.

 
Voted 9 for Russia and 8 for China. There is a closer economic relationship with China, but I wouldn't describe us as "allies" -- more like co-dependent partners in a dysfunctional business relationship.

Neither should be a "10".

 
Good illustration of the Russia narrative the past few years.  20% of the people in here actually think we are at war with them.

 
I think Russia is actively working against our interests, partly just to spite us for winning the Cold War. 
China is too, but I think they’re more looking out for their own defense because they don’t trust us. 
 

It really boggles the mind what humanity could do if these (and other) powers could learn to trust each other and work together. I thought we were making progress- global communications in an instant, the world helping each other to learn and prosper. Information available for anyone willing to learn it- that’s a huge global change that we still haven’t fully realized the benefit of. But now that information reach is being weaponized. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
One of the fascinating things to me in how tribal politics have become is how we view "Allies". When it seems that the people on one side want to be more friendly with a country, the usual reaction from the other side seems to be taking the opposite position. 

It had me wondering how people see other countries, specifically Russia and China, on the "Ally Ranking". I'm sure there are political scientists that have a measure for this kind of thing. For my purposes, I'm going to make it a scale of 1 (completely supportive of the US) to 10 (completely opposed to the US).

A country that was our closest ally would be a 1. A country that we're at war with would be a 10.

And I get there's a ton of nuance involved that isn't addressed by a number on a range. And I get that it's a two way street. We may want to be more aligned with a country than they do with with us. But I'm just looking for general takes here. 
Click to expand...
I don't even know what you are trying to ask.  I would describe it as Russia, China and the U.S. all kind of operate on their own planes, which sometimes overlap and sometimes come in conflict.  China and Russia would prefer to have more power than other countries such as the U.S. and determine their own course.  All 3 want to do as much in their own interest as possible and be involved with the others on a transactional basis.  Neither is an ally, but neither is really an adversary.  I don't think that the demise or rise of any of them really poses an existential threat to the others, like for a North Korea or an Iran.  All 3 have things that the others want (well maybe not so much that Russia has that the U.S. wants), so they make nice when they have to and otherwise do what they want.   

 
It's odd. I voted 7,7 but want to change it to 9,8 like Dinsy explained. I just don't see how trying to destabilize a country's elections puts it at anything almost other than war with that country, which speaks to Russia. China is an authoritarian communist regime and is naturally our enemy.

I would like to see us get back to our special relationship with Britain, our allies in Continental Europe, and a reinforcement of NATO. I think we benefited from that balance in the world.

 
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