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Whole Home Generator (1 Viewer)

Ron Swanson

Ron Swanson

Footballguy
Any generator experts here?  I'm looking to put in a whole home generator with an automatic transfer switch. Currently have 200 amp service.  I think I'll be somewhere in the range of 25-30kw.  We have separate upstairs/downstairs AC units (2 ton and 2.5 ton) with no need to run both at the same time so I can do some selective power management. I have natural gas.  I see all kinds of brands.  Generac seems common. I also see Cummins, Kohler, Briggs, Honeywell, and others in this size range.

Any to avoid?  Any positives?

 
I have a Generac 17kw (small house). Works great. 

Check your local codes. You may need a (or multiple) shedder(s), which will roll brownouts through your generator.

 
Ron Swanson said:
Any generator experts here?  I'm looking to put in a whole home generator with an automatic transfer switch. Currently have 200 amp service.  I think I'll be somewhere in the range of 25-30kw.  We have separate upstairs/downstairs AC units (2 ton and 2.5 ton) with no need to run both at the same time so I can do some selective power management. I have natural gas.  I see all kinds of brands.  Generac seems common. I also see Cummins, Kohler, Briggs, Honeywell, and others in this size range.

Any to avoid?  Any positives?
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Honeywell is  made by Generac under a licensing agreement.   

I just looked into doing this, but the pricing didn't work out for me (plus I don't have access to natural gas, so I would have needed to get a propane tank as well).   There isn't a whole lot of difference in the technology of a generator.    

One thing I did find was that in every case, it was cheaper for me to purchase a generator and have it installed on my own.   Generac claims that they install, but they really just sub out to a local contractor.   There must be something in their agreement where the sub is trying to cover a finder's fee or something.   

 
Uruk-Hai said:
I have a Generac 17kw (small house). Works great. 

Check your local codes. You may need a (or multiple) shedder(s), which will roll brownouts through your generator.
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This is what I have.  It runs just about the entire panel. 

And I live on basically an underground river so my THREE sump pumps need to be juiced at all times.  In case you're interested, each pit has two sumps in it.  Just in case one fails. 

 
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Generac is pretty much top of the food chain for standby home power. They suck at every other thing they make but their home generator line is solid :thumbup:

 
It appears that prices really jump over 22kw..like double to go up to even just 30 kw.  Are there any automatic switches that would allow me to prioritize refrigerators, freezers, modem, router, but then only turn on other larger draw appliances selectively like AC and Hot water?

 
i have one of those 22kw generacs. in the 15 months since it was installed, we haven't lost power since.

 
Ron Swanson said:
It appears that prices really jump over 22kw..like double to go up to even just 30 kw.  Are there any automatic switches that would allow me to prioritize refrigerators, freezers, modem, router, but then only turn on other larger draw appliances selectively like AC and Hot water?
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I would say yes, but I'm no expert.

 
Ron Swanson said:
It appears that prices really jump over 22kw..like double to go up to even just 30 kw.  Are there any automatic switches that would allow me to prioritize refrigerators, freezers, modem, router, but then only turn on other larger draw appliances selectively like AC and Hot water?
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Don't think that's how it works but an electrician can tell you. Typically I think the auto switch is just all on/off. If you want to target a certain appliance(s) they would need to have their own switch.

When sizing a generator you need to look at start up wattage but chances are you won't be starting all those appliances at once so if you add it all up and indicates you need something like a 30kw if you flip all the switches at once, you can probably get by with something much less and simply stagger start the appliances. Guessing you already know all this.

 
James Daulton said:
This is what I have.  It runs just about the entire panel. 

And I live on basically an underground river so my THREE sump pumps need to be juiced at all times.  In case you're interested, each pit has two sumps in it.  Just in case one fails. 
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I would love some sort of battery backup for my sump pump that doesnt involve one of those generators, something that could also run the furnace (gas) in the dead of winter if the power was out.  I don't care if anything else runs.  The car batteries they sell at the store might last  half a day from what I hear, and thats just for the sump pump.  

I do have a gas powered generator which works great, except for the obvious fact that it does not automatically turn on. 

My next house wont have a basement, and if it does it will be on the top of a hill

 
ghostguy123 said:
I would love some sort of battery backup for my sump pump that doesnt involve one of those generators, something that could also run the furnace (gas) in the dead of winter if the power was out.  I don't care if anything else runs.  The car batteries they sell at the store might last  half a day from what I hear, and thats just for the sump pump.  

I do have a gas powered generator which works great, except for the obvious fact that it does not automatically turn on. 

My next house wont have a basement, and if it does it will be on the top of a hill
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I hear that.  I feel good about the current setup, and if it floods I'll just ##### at the wife since I begged her to move. 

 
Is there a reason that you need that much juice?  I'd think that running the essentials would be all that's necessary for the short period of time that you are out.

 
Generac has been running a commercial for a free home assessment. I’ve wanted a generator for years but it’s always been low priority on the cost list. A few years ago we lost power for 3 days in 10 degree weather, house was down to 42 at one point until I got a portable generator running to power a few things (pellet stove, fridge). That was a PITA, had to fill it with gas every half hour-hour and had power cords running from outside garage into house. Had nothing else powered, including sump pump and it sucked.

Hoping to be able to afford smaller system and we already use propane to heat (as well as pellet stove). Will depend on cost.

 
Yeah, the sporadic use makes me question if I should do it. There's no way to financially justify it.  We generally have very stable power and we are on the same power grid as City Hall and the police station.  So it does seem when it goes out we are high priority for restoration by default. In the almost 10 years I've been here we haven't lost power for more than 18 hours and never not during a hurricane except for once when the whole area got taken down by a car accident and once for a couple hours when a pelican committed suicide. But, then again, we are very prone to Hurricanes and maybe our past experience has just been luck? I don't want to mess with a portable generator mostly because of the refrigerators and chest freezer. If I'm going to get something I want it to be automatic. But I might be spending 5-10k here just to protect a freezer of meat and have assurance my fat ### won't have to sweat a bit. I think I'm talking myself out of it.  

 
Ron Swanson said:
It appears that prices really jump over 22kw..like double to go up to even just 30 kw.  Are there any automatic switches that would allow me to prioritize refrigerators, freezers, modem, router, but then only turn on other larger draw appliances selectively like AC and Hot water?
Click to expand...
I have a generac. I don't have everything powered with the generator. It's basically just either connected via the transfer box, or not. For example, I'm not concerned with summer outages and don't have the AC units connected to the transfer box. That way I could go with a smaller unit.

 
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Ron Swanson said:
Yeah, the sporadic use makes me question if I should do it. There's no way to financially justify it.  We generally have very stable power and we are on the same power grid as City Hall and the police station.  So it does seem when it goes out we are high priority for restoration by default. In the almost 10 years I've been here we haven't lost power for more than 18 hours and never not during a hurricane except for once when the whole area got taken down by a car accident and once for a couple hours when a pelican committed suicide. But, then again, we are very prone to Hurricanes and maybe our past experience has just been luck? I don't want to mess with a portable generator mostly because of the refrigerators and chest freezer. If I'm going to get something I want it to be automatic. But I might be spending 5-10k here just to protect a freezer of meat and have assurance my fat ### won't have to sweat a bit. I think I'm talking myself out of it.  
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It is a pretty big investment for something you'll sporadically use.     Personally for me, I just went with a portable and a couple of these for the vitals circuits like the furnace blower and the fridge.   Did that 10 years ago after we lost power for a week after some freak october snow storm and haven't used it once.

 
ShaqAttaq said:
i have one of those 22kw generacs. in the 15 months since it was installed, we haven't lost power since.
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Then it is working.  I bought a snowblower hoping that I would never need to use it.  It has failed me only once this winter.

 
My sump pump runs every 15 minutes -- in a drought.  If ever this global warming thing really hits and drys up the great lakes and all of the rivers, my sump pump will still be pumping out water every 30 minutes.  I've done all of the, as Mike Ehrmantraut would say, half measures. 

I've started with the battery back up.  Did you know that you actually have to service and/or replace that dang battery that may only last about an hour in a storm?

Then I moved on to the water powered back up.  Don't waste your money.

I have purchased a Honda generator to run the sump pump in case I lose power.  Now, this thing has been great as I have yet to lose power for more than a hour since I bought it.  

If I put all of the money that I spent on these half measures on a whole house generator, I would be pretty close to break even.  Go full measure boys... full measure.

 
generacs have big plants here in wisconsin so i say go with generac and support my local brohanthren take that to the bank 

 
ShaqAttaq said:
i have one of those 22kw generacs. in the 15 months since it was installed, we haven't lost power since.
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Yep.  I thought about getting one when we built our house 11 years ago.  Since then we have lost power for more than 30 minutes twice.    I know that if we ever have a major grid failure I'll wish I had it but I can't justify the cost.

 
D-Day said:
My sump pump runs every 15 minutes -- in a drought.  If ever this global warming thing really hits and drys up the great lakes and all of the rivers, my sump pump will still be pumping out water every 30 minutes.  I've done all of the, as Mike Ehrmantraut would say, half measures. 

I've started with the battery back up.  Did you know that you actually have to service and/or replace that dang battery that may only last about an hour in a storm?

Then I moved on to the water powered back up.  Don't waste your money.

I have purchased a Honda generator to run the sump pump in case I lose power.  Now, this thing has been great as I have yet to lose power for more than a hour since I bought it.  

If I put all of the money that I spent on these half measures on a whole house generator, I would be pretty close to break even.  Go full measure boys... full measure.
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Sorry for hijacking, but what didnt you like about the water powered backup? Had one installed 4 years ago and its saved me from being flooded out at least 3 times that I know of and didnt even jack up my water bill much- $7-$15.

 
Raging weasel said:
Sorry for hijacking, but what didnt you like about the water powered backup? Had one installed 4 years ago and its saved me from being flooded out at least 3 times that I know of and didnt even jack up my water bill much- $7-$15.
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I probably had too much water for the water back up to handle.  In normal conditions, it would be fine.  In storm conditions, it just could not keep up.

 
I have a Generac. It was easier to get the one to handle the full house as opposed to figuring out which things I was willing to live w/o during a storm. I got it after the 3rd time I lost power for week plus in about a 2 year span. We had back to back to back nasty storms. Irene, and Ice storm and maybe Sandy?! I can't remember which ones now. I do know that it was cheaper than replacing all the spoiled food 3 times. Neighbor got one too. His was an easier sell, he needed power for his O2 pump that he needed as he recovered from a horrible bike crash.  

I had friends with the portable generators thinking they were all that. It was awesome, until they couldn't get out to the gas stations to get more gas cause the roads were impassable. When a tree falls on the one way out... you are kind stuck till the DPW/power company shows up. Natural gas is the way to go. If I lose that, I have bigger issues.

 
Chemical X said:
that’s a lot of money for a 1x a year use.
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Honestly that was my take too...Like @James Daulton, I've got major water-in-the-basement issues, although not as bad as he seems to have it.  I've got a pit that's ALWAYS got water in it, and I've got a pretty high-powered pump with a battery back-up.

We were without power for a week during Hurricane Sandy, and several neighbors got whole-house back-ups after that.  Since then, the longest we've gone without power was ~12 hours.  I got a dual-fuel Champion generator rated for 9,000 KW at Costco and had a transfer switch installed.  It'll run everything except the water heater, oven, washer/dryer.  My water heater is an 80+ gallon job anyway, so it'll easily stay warm for a day.  Saved me a lot over a whole-home so far.  

The only drawback IMO is if I'm away when the power cuts out, it won't cut on automatically, but the battery back-up on the sump will cover me till I get home in most cases.  Also, we're off the public utility grid for water and natural gas - Keeping enough fresh petrol gas for a whole-home generator isn't really feasible in most cases anyway.  I don't think I'd try it without being on natural gas.

 
Fat Nick said:
Honestly that was my take too...Like @James Daulton, I've got major water-in-the-basement issues, although not as bad as he seems to have it.  I've got a pit that's ALWAYS got water in it, and I've got a pretty high-powered pump with a battery back-up.

We were without power for a week during Hurricane Sandy, and several neighbors got whole-house back-ups after that.  Since then, the longest we've gone without power was ~12 hours.  I got a dual-fuel Champion generator rated for 9,000 KW at Costco and had a transfer switch installed.  It'll run everything except the water heater, oven, washer/dryer.  My water heater is an 80+ gallon job anyway, so it'll easily stay warm for a day.  Saved me a lot over a whole-home so far.  

The only drawback IMO is if I'm away when the power cuts out, it won't cut on automatically, but the battery back-up on the sump will cover me till I get home in most cases.  Also, we're off the public utility grid for water and natural gas - Keeping enough fresh petrol gas for a whole-home generator isn't really feasible in most cases anyway.  I don't think I'd try it without being on natural gas.
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I would have gone your direction but my wife wanted 100% coverage in case we were on vacation or something.  If it rains good my pits all fill quickly.  No rain and they go off like once a day or less.  But those rainstorms...

 
A sump pump is certainly a much bigger consideration.   I guess the same could be said for being on vaca, the heat not coming on and a pipe bursting.   

 
James Daulton said:
I would have gone your direction but my wife wanted 100% coverage in case we were on vacation or something.  If it rains good my pits all fill quickly.  No rain and they go off like once a day or less.  But those rainstorms...
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Seems like a french drain might cure things if it only runs a lot during a storm

 
SWC said:
generacs have big plants here in wisconsin so i say go with generac and support my local brohanthren take that to the bank 
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Kohler is also from Wisconsin.  One of the family members lives here and runs the west coast operation.  Nice guy.  I'd buy Kohler.   Plus I just got a quote from Generac that was ridiculously high.

 
Inquiring minds wan to know what’s the ballpark cost on one of these puppies?

Obviously lots of variables but are you talking 5k, 10k or more?

 
berndog said:
Inquiring minds wan to know what’s the ballpark cost on one of these puppies?

Obviously lots of variables but are you talking 5k, 10k or more?
Click to expand...
I think I was $9k turnkey (including the propane tanks, since I don't have natural gas here) for a 17kw. I pulled a permit, too.

I'm in rural western VA, but NOVA/DC prices bleed over into my area. 

I lost about $2k in beef and pork when that durecho hit here in 2012. I installed the generator the next Spring. I doubt its run more than 12 hours since, but #### it. 

 
berndog said:
Inquiring minds wan to know what’s the ballpark cost on one of these puppies?

Obviously lots of variables but are you talking 5k, 10k or more?
Click to expand...
I think like $8,500 all in for me.  Natural gas. 

 
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