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ffmail4me

Now that Brady is a Buccaneer...

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Posted (edited)

What are your thoughts on Godwin, Evans, and Howard? 

I personally think it will be a boom for all 3 players. The downside most talk about is less deep balls to Evans, but I'm not so sure that's going to be the case (permitting he has time to throw) but as he ages, wouldn't it make sense they would tailor the offense to a lot of short and intermediate routes anyway? And if so, seems Godwin and Howard would GREATLY benefit there. 

And let's say you lose 5 deep shots down field a game (have no idea how many Winston actually took per game but just throwing that out there) I'd think by better ball control and less turnovers, Evans would have more red zone possessions due to less INTs. 

What do you guys think? 

Edited by ffmail4me

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2 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

What are your thoughts on Godwin, Evans, and Howard? 

I personally think it will be a boom for all 3 players. The downside most talk about is less deep balls to Evans, but I'm not so sure that's going to be the case (permitting he has time to throw) but as he ages, wouldn't it make sense they would tailor the offense to a lot of short and intermediate routes anyway? And if so, seems Godwin and Howard would GREATLY benefit there. 

And let's say you lose 5 deep shots down field a game (have no idea how many Winston actually took per game but just throwing that out there) I'd think by better ball control and less turnovers, Evans would have more red zone possessions due to less INTs. 

What do you guys think? 

Sounds good on paper. OJ could be a huge steal right now

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1 minute ago, Snorkelson said:

Sounds good on paper. OJ could be a huge steal right now

I know he's burned a lot of owners, but the talent (and hands) have always been there, and man Tom loved throwing to Gronk and Hernandez didn't he? 

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I'm not sure Howard is really effected. His issues weren't Winston related, they were Arians related. He simply doesn't like/trust Howard, and to be fair, other than an half season stretch in 2018, he's right not to. 

Evans TD's go up, possibly by a lot. He's shown capable of being a dominant redzone WR, but accuracy plays a key role there. He was better with Fitzpatrick than Winston. On the flip side, Evans YPC almost certainly drops a bit, and perhaps an overall decrease in YPG.

Godwin probably stays about the same, and a RB likely gains some targets, and possibly TD's over what the position has produced the last couple years, whether that is Jones, or someone new remains to be seen, though I think Jones showed enough last year to at least see 35% of the work no matter what.

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2 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I'm not sure Howard is really effected. His issues weren't Winston related, they were Arians related. He simply doesn't like/trust Howard, and to be fair, other than an half season stretch in 2018, he's right not to. 

Evans TD's go up, possibly by a lot. He's shown capable of being a dominant redzone WR, but accuracy plays a key role there. He was better with Fitzpatrick than Winston. On the flip side, Evans YPC almost certainly drops a bit, and perhaps an overall decrease in YPG.

Godwin probably stays about the same, and a RB likely gains some targets, and possibly TD's over what the position has produced the last couple years, whether that is Jones, or someone new remains to be seen, though I think Jones showed enough last year to at least see 35% of the work no matter what.

Good post. It was an offense and Howard issue not a QB issue. Howard got benched at one point.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

There's a big difference between Gronk and Howard.

Well yes but some similarities too.  Combine numbers, Howard ran a 4.51 vs 4.68 for Gronk. Howard 22 bench reps, Gronk 23. Howard had a 6.85 3 cone time but Gronk didn't participate there...but both are physical specimens for sure....

Edited by ffmail4me

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1 minute ago, ffmail4me said:

Well yes but some similarities too.  Combine numbers, Howard ran a 4.51 vs 4.68 for Gronk. Howard 22 bench reps, Gronk 23. Howard had a 6.85 3 cone time but Gronk didn't participate there...but both are physical specimens for sure....

They're male, belong to the species Homo sapien, are over 5 feet tall...

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20 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

What are your thoughts on Godwin, Evans, and Howard? 

I personally think it will be a boom for all 3 players. The downside most talk about is less deep balls to Evans, but I'm not so sure that's going to be the case (permitting he has time to throw) but as he ages, wouldn't it make sense they would tailor the offense to a lot of short and intermediate routes anyway? And if so, seems Godwin and Howard would GREATLY benefit there. 

And let's say you lose 5 deep shots down field a game (have no idea how many Winston actually took per game but just throwing that out there) I'd think by better ball control and less turnovers, Evans would have more red zone possessions due to less INTs. 

What do you guys think? 

Big downgrade for Evans, bit of a downgrade for Godwin. Howard a bit of an upgrade. 

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11 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

Big downgrade for Evans, bit of a downgrade for Godwin. Howard a bit of an upgrade. 

I just don't get this take quite honestly. So a QB that threw 30 INTs is going to be better for 2 elite WRs than one of the best and most accurate QBs of all time?? 

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Many of Godwins scores came from fly routes. Brady may not have the arm strength he once had, which would limit the upside of a deep threat more. I am not saying Evans doesn't also get a lot of fly routes, but Brady tends to do well throwing short to intermediate routes and letting the WR or TE make a play. 

I think Brady to TB creates a fantasy cannibal situation where Howard, Evans, Godwin, and a RB all eat into each other's fantasy value. This means there is still good value, but bump Howard and a RB up a lot and Evans/Godwin down to make up the difference. 

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4 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I just don't get this take quite honestly. So a QB that threw 30 INTs is going to be better for 2 elite WRs than one of the best and most accurate QBs of all time?? 

Qbs who throw interceptions are awesome for our fantasy wide receivers.

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I don't think he's going to Tampa but if he did  my opinion it is would be huge for Godwin, really bad for Evans, and as for Howard depends how much Arians would adjust the offense for what Brady wants and likes.

Again, I'd be shocked if he went to Tampa so don't think we ever will know these answers.

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Just now, menobrown said:

I don't think he's going to Tampa but if he did  my opinion it is would be huge for Godwin, really bad for Evans, and as for Howard depends how much Arians would adjust the offense for what Brady wants and likes.

Again, I'd be shocked if he went to Tampa so don't think we ever will know these answers.

Well its 50/50 now, either TB or stays in NE according to all reports...

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Just now, ffmail4me said:

Well its 50/50 now, either TB or stays in NE according to all reports...

I'm reading entirely conflicting reports so don't think anyone knows right now.

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you think Brady is touching Winston's passing yds/tds from this past season?

obvious downgrade for all WRs.

team will likely be better, but worse fantasy wise, 100%

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

100% like Cleveland having the best offense ever last season 100%?

quick - number of times TB has ecliped 5109 passing yds?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Probably the same number of times Josh Gordon had more than 900 receiving yards 

bingo. 

9yrs ago. the ONE time brady eclipsed that number. 

5yrs ago the last time he eclipes jameis' td total for this year (of only 33)

no doubt he makes TB better in the real nfl. not in fantasy

Edited by Soulfly3

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My guess is, a QB won't have to throw 5000+ yards to have a high powered offense in TB if he doesn't give the ball to the other team 30 times. :shrug:

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Posted (edited)

The Bucs aren't as far off as people think they are. They were a playoff caliber team down the stretch. They went 5-1(and the 1 was to NO) in the 2nd half of the season before Evans/Godwin both went down, and even then they almost beat Houston(despite Winston losing that game all by himself) and Atlanta(lost in OT, because of Winston)

Swap out Winston for Brady, that is worth a minimum of 3 wins. 

ETA I'll go a step further, swap out Winston for Brady, and I'm not sure who is better Tampa or New England.

Edited by travdogg
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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

Probably the same number of times Josh Gordon had more than 900 receiving yards 

In fairness, there's no longer marijuana suspensions under the new CBA.

Gordon might light up the league now.  Pun intended.

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I will still contend that if  this thread title holds it's not Tom Brady's impact on signing with Tampa but Teddy Bridgewater's that will be up for discussion.

 

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3 hours ago, travdogg said:

ETA I'll go a step further, swap out Winston for Brady, and I'm not sure who is better Tampa or New England.

Neither would be good enough to win their conference. 

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I'm trying to figure out how people think a QB that throws for fewer yards, fewer TDs, and spreads the ball around more will be good for a team's top fantasy receiving options.

 

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32 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I'm trying to figure out how people think a QB that throws for fewer yards, fewer TDs, and spreads the ball around more will be good for a team's top fantasy receiving options.

 

lemme know if you get an answer

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38 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I'm trying to figure out how people think a QB that throws for fewer yards, fewer TDs, and spreads the ball around more will be good for a team's top fantasy receiving options.

 

I guess you forgot what Brady did when he had Randy Moss and Gronk? Would you expect him to put up great numbers with the crap he had the last few years in NE? I mean, I'm not a Patriots fan or even a Brady fan (have ZERO shares of him in my dynasty leagues) but the talent around a QB matters. TB would give Brady a MASSIVE upgrade. I believe he'd throw more yards and TDs in TB than what he has had the last few years in NE. Just like I think any other QB would struggle with what NE had the last few seasons compared to what Winston has had in TB. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

lemme know if you get an answer

Edelman, James White, Phillip Dorsett, Rex Burkead. That was Brady's top 4 weapons in the passing game. 

Godwin, Evans, Perriman, Brate/Howard. I think this is a MAJOR upgrade, that's your answer. 

Edited by ffmail4me

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I believe he'd throw more yards and TDs in TB than what he has had the last few years in NE. 

Well from a fantasy perspective that's not saying much considering he only threw for 4000 yards and 24 TDs last year.  Nor does it really matter if it's still less than 5100/33.

It's not like he's going to target them more often.  Even when he had Cooks/Gronk he didn't target either more than 114 times.  Evans/Godwin each exceeded that last year despite missing 5 games between them.

I could buy the argument that he will help Howard.  I don't get how fewer yards/TDs spread out more could be better for Evans/Godwin.

A jekyll/hyde QB that either played like the best QB in history or played so poorly that he dug his team into a situation to rack up 400 yards in garbage time was pretty much the perfect situation for fantasy.

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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2 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Well from a fantasy perspective that's not saying much considering he only threw for 4000 yards and 24 TDs last year.  Nor does it really matter if it's still less than 5100/33.

It's not like he's going to target them more often. 

Do we really know that for a fact? If he comes to TB, it won't be BB controlling everything like he does/did in NE.  And you really think a 9 TD increase  (24 vs 33) is THAT unlikely when you replace a bunch of scrubs with Godwin, Evans, and Howard? I honestly don't think that is that far fetched....at all. 

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7 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I'm trying to figure out how people think a QB that throws for fewer yards, fewer TDs, and spreads the ball around more will be good for a team's top fantasy receiving options.

 

I think it would be an upgrade for Howard. Not Godwin or Evans.  

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12 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

Qbs who throw interceptions are awesome for our fantasy wide receivers.

It's true

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7 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

I guess you forgot what Brady did when he had Randy Moss and Gronk? Would you expect him to put up great numbers with the crap he had the last few years in NE? I mean, I'm not a Patriots fan or even a Brady fan (have ZERO shares of him in my dynasty leagues) but the talent around a QB matters. TB would give Brady a MASSIVE upgrade. I believe he'd throw more yards and TDs in TB than what he has had the last few years in NE. Just like I think any other QB would struggle with what NE had the last few seasons compared to what Winston has had in TB. 

That's basically where I'm at. Brady doesn't want Edelman and White, potent weapons though they are. He wants Moss. These Bucs receivers could absolutely light it up with him. I think the biggest stumbling block would be Brady getting on the same page with these guys, as well as Arians. That might be wishful thinking. 

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It seems some people are forgetting that Tom Brady will be 43 years old to start the season.

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6 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

Do we really know that for a fact? If he comes to TB, it won't be BB controlling everything like he does/did in NE.  And you really think a 9 TD increase  (24 vs 33) is THAT unlikely when you replace a bunch of scrubs with Godwin, Evans, and Howard? I honestly don't think that is that far fetched....at all. 

What if they draft a top RB as well? I don't know. His heart says Tampa. You can feel it. He wants weapons. He has been begging Bill for years and Bill just coldly responds back, "it's on to Buffalo, Tom, and you're going to throw a bunch of short crap to Edleman and White and methodically wear them down. Like you've done time in and time out." Then Brady says, "oh-kay". But he's all grown up now and wants to have some ####### receivers again. 

Ok um yeah I'd be really surprised if he does it. But then again you're saying more money, *a lot* more weapons, more sunshine, and a chance to do something super special to rap up his career? 50/50 seems legit.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It seems some people are forgetting that Tom Brady will be 43 years old to start the season.

He does yoga it's cool. I'm sure he won't have a problem hitting those guys deep. Not at all.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

It seems some people are forgetting that Tom Brady will be 43 years old to start the season.

43 year old Brady is still a hell of a lot better than Winston. He's even in better shape than Winston. 

Somewhat hot take I guess: If you count the incoming rookie class, I don't think Winston is a top-32 NFL QB. He's a backup QB, who has put up nice fantasy numbers because of an ideal situation, but let s not forget, he was outplayed both NFL and fantasy wise by Ryan Fitzpatrick with those same weapons. Why can't Brady be better? 

Brady to Tampa, has a very Favre to Minnesota vibe to it to me. 

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13 minutes ago, travdogg said:

43 year old Brady is still a hell of a lot better than Winston.

We're talking about the fantasy prospects of the skill position players on the Bucs not which QB is better for the team's chances. I'd agree that Winston's turnovers are a killer from an NFL perspective.

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16 hours ago, I-ROK said:

Many of Godwins scores came from fly routes.  

I don’t have the stats to back this up but as a guy who watched each bucs game twice this is almost certainly not true. Most came off slants from the slot. Evans and Perriman were the ones getting the deep shots primarily. 

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11 hours ago, ffmail4me said:

Edelman, James White, Phillip Dorsett, Rex Burkead. That was Brady's top 4 weapons in the passing game. 

Godwin, Evans, Perriman, Brate/Howard. I think this is a MAJOR upgrade, that's your answer. 

Major upgrade for Brady - but he can do better in fantasy, while the parts in TB do worse.  Brady could throw for 500 more yards, and 5 more TDs, and the production would still be less than what Winston put up.

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Posted (edited)

I'd downgrade them all. Perhaps Howard upgrades on his 2019 #s. 

Brady isn't throwing anywhere close to 5100 yards. Nor IMO wlll reach 33 TDs.

I think it'd be a ball control offense, I think they'd make an investment to upgrade RBs.

----------------------------------

I still think he remains in New England. JMO The alternatives could be disastrous way to end his career.

If I'm Bruce Arians, I stick with Winston. But he's likely not going to have that choice now with franchise option gone to Barrett. Someone's gonna pay Jameis a lot for at least 2020.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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Maybe Giselle will get a job at one of the Tampa strip clubs.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

If I'm Bruce Arians, I stick with Winston. But he's likely not going to have that choice now with franchise option gone to Barrett. Someone's gonna pay Jameis a lot for at least 2020.

Agreed. 

Arians doesn't take the TB job if he didn't believe in Jameis. You give him beyond 1 year in the offense. He's the youngest and most physically gifted available out there by a wide margin. 

I also think someone may pay Jameis more than TB will spend in the end because there's little to no doubt he's going to make a lot of coin this upcoming year.

Edited by Bears_Man2

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1 hour ago, travdogg said:

43 year old Brady is still a hell of a lot better than Winston. He's even in better shape than Winston. 

Somewhat hot take I guess: If you count the incoming rookie class, I don't think Winston is a top-32 NFL QB. He's a backup QB, who has put up nice fantasy numbers because of an ideal situation, but let s not forget, he was outplayed both NFL and fantasy wise by Ryan Fitzpatrick with those same weapons. Why can't Brady be better? 

Brady to Tampa, has a very Favre to Minnesota vibe to it to me. 

43 year old Brady is obviously a better QB than Winston, but he's not a better FANTASY QB than Winston.

A QB that either throws for 400 yards and 3 TDs in the first half or throws for 5 INTs in the first half and digs his team into a 35-0 hole so he can throw for 400 yards and 3 TDs in garbage time in the 2nd half is pretty much the perfect QB for racking up fantasy stats.

Between weeks 3-16 last year Winston only threw for less than 300 yards 1 time.  It was nuts.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Bears_Man2 said:

Agreed. 

Arians doesn't take the TB job if he didn't believe in Jameis. You give him beyond 1 year in the offense. He's the youngest and most physically gifted available out there by a wide margin. 

I also think someone may pay Jameis more than TB will spend in the end because there's little to no doubt he's going to make a lot of coin this upcoming year.

Maybe. 

But to pay a guy (a lot) who throws that many interceptions despite having arguably the best receiving corps in the league, you better have receivers who can beat DBs for jump balls, can get open, etc. 

Outside of Tampa, San Diego and Indy are the only teams with probably the right situation for Winston.

Honestly, I really don't want Winston in Indy. (As a Titans fan)

Edited by -OZ-

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1 hour ago, Bears_Man2 said:

Agreed. 

Arians doesn't take the TB job if he didn't believe in Jameis. You give him beyond 1 year in the offense. He's the youngest and most physically gifted available out there by a wide margin. 

I also think someone may pay Jameis more than TB will spend in the end because there's little to no doubt he's going to make a lot of coin this upcoming year.

He may be physically gifted but he's not a very good quarterback.

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