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ren hoek

Former staffer accuses Joe Biden of sexual assault

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

This story has more credibility and corroboration than Ford's.  The other stories against Kavanaugh were complete fabrications which were completely discredited.   There was one college rumor which had several people repeat, but the supposed victim does not recall such an event.  It is COMPLETELY disingenuous to compare this story to the fruitcakes which came out against Kavanaugh as none of the facts stood up to even a cursory investigation.   This lady worked with Biden, made reports against him going through the appropriate channel, told relatives and friends at the time, etc and had dates and locations.   Ford could not establish a date or location and every person she identified including a close friend denied the party she described ever happened.  

Lawyers wouldnt take her case...her witnesses wouldn’t speak to several news outlets for them to vet the story more.

No...this os not any more credible than Blasey Ford.  That is your own bias coming through to ignore other issues this story has.

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2 hours ago, General Malaise said:

Should we also treat Biden's accuser the same way Trump's or Kavanaugh's accusers were treated?   

I've not looked too far into it/her but yes .... she could be paid buy GOP to sabotage Biden, could be a gold digger, could be a DNC thing ... Russia, China ? who the heck knows ..... but yes, its kinda discrimination to treat her any differently isn't it ?

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25 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

How did we treat it/them?  He’s never suffered any damage or harm or political fallout.  NONE

it was all investigated - use the same investigation process on this accuser as we/they did on Trump accusers 

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Lawyers wouldnt take her case...her witnesses wouldn’t speak to several news outlets for them to vet the story more.

No...this os not any more credible than Blasey Ford.  That is your own bias coming through to ignore other issues this story has.

Lawyers would not take her case because she was not interested in a legal case.  She just wants a PR firm to promote herself.and that is not what these law firms do.

Factually her case has far more evidence which supports her claim.  Personally she is a train wreck and Ford is more credible as a person.  But Ford first tells her story 20 years after the fact and just happened to coincide with Kavanaugh's appointment to the second most important court in the land.  She even had the wrong year and had to correct it to match Kavanagh's timeline.  Her story is some whack memory pulled out of the cobwebs that was influenced by her rabid desire to protect abortion.  Both of these women lack credibility but for vastly different reasons.  Without a single shred of corroboration, and I mean absolutely zero, there is nothing which establishes there is any shred of truth to this story Ford now remembers.  Human memories are pretty terrible and in fact regularly change unless you document it or establish it.  

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2 hours ago, jon_mx said:

This story has more credibility and corroboration than Ford's.  The other stories against Kavanaugh were complete fabrications which were completely discredited.   There was one college rumor which had several people repeat, but the supposed victim does not recall such an event.  It is COMPLETELY disingenuous to compare this story to the fruitcakes which came out against Kavanaugh as none of the facts stood up to even a cursory investigation.   This lady worked with Biden, made reports against him going through the appropriate channel, told relatives and friends at the time, etc and had dates and locations.   Ford could not establish a date or location and every person she identified including a close friend denied the party she described ever happened.  

Not to rehash this Democrat debacle, but Blassey Ford’s friend shooting this down put this thing to rest. I can’t believe we still have actual truthers to this day running around.

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2 hours ago, jon_mx said:

Ford could not establish a date or location and every person she identified including a close friend denied the party she described ever happened.  

Eh, except Kavanaugh's own calendar that he submitted as evidence.

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1 minute ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Eh, except Kavanaugh's own calendar that he submitted as evidence.

That established Kavanaugh attended parties.  It did not establish the party that Ford described happen.  Ford can not establish a single concrete fact.  Not one.  

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6 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Eh, except Kavanaugh's own calendar that he submitted as evidence.

That established Kavanaugh attended parties.  It did not establish the party that Ford described happen.  Ford can not establish a single concrete fact.  Not one.  

 

Now if Ford had a time and location and it matched Kavanuagh's calendar, then you would have something significant. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

That established Kavanaugh attended parties.  It did not establish the party that Ford described happen.  Ford can not establish a single concrete fact.  Not one.  

Now if Ford had a time and location and it matched Kavanuagh's calendar, then you would have something significant. 

That's not right. - It was a party like the one she described, with roughly the same people and IIRC at roughly the same time period.

I'll admit I don't want to rehash this - these discussions are longwinded - especially as I'd agree she did not "prove" that the incident happened, that's not the point, or it wasn't for me. It had to do with Kavanaugh's candor and behavior. - However I do think it's worth pointing out that she apparently dated (went out with) one of Kavanaugh's friends. It's likely that her friend (name escapes me now) wasn't aware of the incident because Ford left with the Kavanaugh friend (Ski IIRC) and that Ford never told her. It just seems like efforts to prove it didn't happen just fail as badly as efforts to say it did.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

That's not right. - It was a party like the one she described, with roughly the same people and IIRC at roughly the same time period.

I'll admit I don't want to rehash this - these discussions are longwinded - especially as I'd agree she did not "prove" that the incident happened, that's not the point, or it wasn't for me. It had to do with Kavanaugh's candor and behavior. - However I do think it's worth pointing out that she apparently dated (went out with) one of Kavanaugh's friends. It's likely that her friend (name escapes me now) wasn't aware of the incident because Ford left with the Kavanaugh friend (Ski IIRC) and that Ford never told her. It just seems like efforts to prove it didn't happen just fail as badly as efforts to say it did.

Because it is impossible to prove a story which lacks a date or a place happened.  You would have to account for every minute if your life to defend against such nonsense.  When a story lacks any details it can morph into anything.  That has to be something concrete which puts these two people together and there isn't.  Not just some wishy washy nonsense where maybe it could of happened.  Kavanaugh was rightfully frustrated with the whole process 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Blassey Ford’s friend shooting this down put this thing to rest.

Quote

“It would be impossible for me to be the only girl at a get-together with three guys, have her leave and then not figure out how she’s going to get home,” Keyser said.

“I’ve been thinking about who I was at 16 rather than who Chrissy was at 16,” Keyser said, saying that although she has dealt with addiction as an adult, she wasn’t a heavy drinker then.

Wapo

- I always thought this was a really good point fwiw. I just don't think Keyser would have just blown off being dumped at a party or forgotten about it. She would have been worried about her friend as well.

- However there are similar issues here with Reade. Supposedly Grimm stated that he confirmed the story with Reade's brother and a friend. However when Salon went to contact them they would not reply, they apparently had no desire to confirm Reade's story with that publication.

Otoh Ford did have family and a therapist who confirmed that she had told this story in the past. I'm not claiming that proves anything, I'm just saying that is where 'treat them the same' leads.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Right now just to make things look on the up and up they should do their due diligence and investigate this claim.  At the very least clear Biden is there is no wrong doing.   Biden has had creeper issues so this needs to go away.

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2 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Right now just to make things look on the up and up they should do their due diligence and investigate this claim.  At the very least clear Biden is there is no wrong doing.   Biden has had creeper issues so this needs to go away.

Agreed, we need to know the truth!

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19 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

Right now just to make things look on the up and up they should do their due diligence and investigate this claim.  At the very least clear Biden is there is no wrong doing.   Biden has had creeper issues so this needs to go away.

What’s even sadder is Biden has made his rounds on all the networks since this broke and not one question.

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4 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Otoh Ford did have family and a therapist who confirmed that she had told this story in the past. I'm not claiming that proves anything, I'm just saying that is where 'treat them the same' leads.

There is no therapist confirmation.

Ford herself admitted she may have shown the wapo reporter her own summary of the notes and not the actual notes. 

Mitchell even pursuing that line of questioning leads me to believe she knew it was possible that nobody had seen the actual notes. She had the wapo text messages so I assume she spoke to the reporter too. 

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On 3/31/2020 at 4:37 PM, Sweet J said:

Or to think you are doing anything except sowing discord. 

 

On 4/1/2020 at 5:39 AM, Sweet J said:

you aren’t going to read this bc I don’t think you have an actual interest in the truth. But someone else may 

On a side, could you lay off the accusations of "sowing discord"?  I don't accuse you of trying to spread lies or being disinterested in the truth.  

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How has one “reporter” not asked Biden about this in an interview yet?  

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1 hour ago, Widbil83 said:

How has one “reporter” not asked Biden about this in an interview yet?  

Probably worried about their access in a Biden administration

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1 hour ago, Widbil83 said:

How has one “reporter” not asked Biden about this in an interview yet?  

Read the Salon piece above.

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Kind of depressing skimming through this thread - just another example of why our 2-party system sucks right now.

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People have been begging Alyssa Milano, one of the most high profile #metoo celebrities, to please notice the sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden.  The silence is deafening.  

Then I see this video of Rose McGowan talking about her.  These people are frauds.  

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6 hours ago, AAABatteries said:

Kind of depressing skimming through this thread - just another example of why our 2-party system sucks right now.

I've been saying since the 2016 election... if everyone who wanted a strong third party went out and voted third party, we'd have a strong third party. 

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3 hours ago, ren hoek said:

People have been begging Alyssa Milano, one of the most high profile #metoo celebrities, to please notice the sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden.  The silence is deafening.  

Then I see this video of Rose McGowan talking about her.  These people are frauds.  

She has, as of a couple nights ago, removed the #metoo hashtag from the bio area of her twitter profile. Pretty disgusting actually.

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42 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

She has, as of a couple nights ago, removed the #metoo hashtag from the bio area of her twitter profile. Pretty disgusting actually.

Yes, it is fascinating to watch people who previously afforded credibility to Blasey Ford instantly morph overnight into rape skeptics.  

The responses to this thread, in which Milano STILL refuses to acknowledge the rape accusations against Joe Biden, are incredible. 

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Nathan J Robinson @NathanJRobinson

Anyone who has listened to the full hour interview with Tara Reade (instead of pretending it doesn't exist) knows @JoeBiden is done. The only question is if it will destroy him now or Dems can keep him afloat until it destroys him in the general election.

Just to be clear, every Democrat who supports Joe Biden is going to find themselves defending him against a credible allegation that he raped a staffer. (Tara does not use the word rape, but it can be characterized that way, and believe me, that is what the ads will say.)

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3 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Tara does not use the word rape,

What does she use?

Its her characterization that matters.

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14 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

What does she use?

Its her characterization that matters.

Believe she described it as penetration.  

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4 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Nathan J Robinson @NathanJRobinson

Anyone who has listened to the full hour interview with Tara Reade (instead of pretending it doesn't exist) knows @JoeBiden is done. The only question is if it will destroy him now or Dems can keep him afloat until it destroys him in the general election.

Just to be clear, every Democrat who supports Joe Biden is going to find themselves defending him against a credible allegation that he raped a staffer. (Tara does not use the word rape, but it can be characterized that way, and believe me, that is what the ads will say.)

If Fox or Brietbart hasn't picked up this story by now...

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53 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Believe she described it as penetration.  

Believe?

Ren, you are pushing something (which I'm not judging, that's fine as you see it as important) but you don't even know what exactly you are pushing here? You just believe?

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Posted (edited)

People don't really "believe all women" nor should they. It's a platitude. Women lie, just as men do, for a multitude of reasons. It may very well be that in aggregate, truth-telling vastly outnumbers lying in sexual misconduct scenarios. But still in most cases, the proper reaction is to have no opinion as to a particular claim's veracity.

Edited by TakiToki

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2 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Believe?

Ren, you are pushing something (which I'm not judging, that's fine as you see it as important) but you don't even know what exactly you are pushing here? You just believe?

Not "pushing" anything.  I believe Joe Biden violated this woman and is morally unfit for office.  I don't recall the exact words but she described digital penetration by Joe Biden.  I've listened to the full hour interview and her interview on DN! and read multiple pieces on it.  I read the Salon piece that provided cover to Time's Up because there was no legal recourse being sought by Reade (although Rose McGowan's statement on Time's Up show it to be a PR outfit for CAA predators) and looked seriously into the Russian asset claims as if they aren't a joke.  

I think women, just like anyone else, tend to cloud out or avoid confronting traumatic events in their life.  Whatever her reasons for not coming forward sooner or not telling the full story initially, I respect her reasons for doing so.  We also know for a fact that Joe Biden lies regularly (that or he rewrites history in his head in real time); I find Reade more trustworthy/credible than him.  Just because I don't remember the exact words she used off the top of my head doesn't mean I don't find it credible for a good reason.  But don't ask me- listen and judge for yourself.  

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Posted (edited)

https://twitter.com/kthalps/status/1242691746561167360?lang=en

She continued: “I handed him the thing. He greeted me. He remembered my name. And then we were alone. It was the strangest thing. There was no like exchange really. He just had me up against the wall. I was wearing like a skirt, a business skirt. I wasn’t wearing stockings. It was kind of a hot day that day, and I was wearing heels…I remember I was wearing a blouse, and he just had me up against the wall. And the wall was cold. It happened all at once…his hands were on me and underneath my clothes. Yeah, and he went down my skirt but then up inside it, and he penetrated me with his fingers a little, and he was kissing me at the same time, and he was saying something to me. He said several things. I can’t remember everything he said.”

She added: “I remember a couple of things. I remember him saying, first as he was doing it, ‘Do you want to go somewhere else,’ and then him saying to me when I pulled away. He got finished doing what he was doing, and I pulled back and he said, ‘C’mon man, I heard you liked me,’ and it’s that phrase stayed with me. I kept thinking what I might have said…I can’t remember if he said I thought or heard. He implied that I had done this.

 

^^ For clarity. 

 

 

I think part of the issue is that when she came forward with this, her story was different.  She then changed it recently.

Edited by BigSteelThrill

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Just now, ren hoek said:

Not "pushing" anything.  I believe Joe Biden violated this woman and is morally unfit for office.  I don't recall the exact words but she described digital penetration by Joe Biden.  I've listened to the full hour interview and her interview on DN! and read multiple pieces on it.  I read the Salon piece that provided cover to Time's Up because there was no legal recourse being sought by Reade (although Rose McGowan's statement on Time's Up show it to be a PR outfit for CAA predators) and looked seriously into the Russian asset claims as if they aren't a joke.  

I think women, just like anyone else, tend to cloud out or avoid confronting traumatic events in their life.  Whatever her reasons for not coming forward sooner or not telling the full story initially, I respect her reasons for doing so.  We also know for a fact that Joe Biden lies regularly (that or he rewrites history in his head in real time); I find Reade more trustworthy/credible than him.  Just because I don't remember the exact words she used off the top of my head doesn't mean I don't find it credible for a good reason.  But don't ask me- listen and judge for yourself.  

Well you do keep making sure its front and center at FBGs.  That is all I was saying by "pushing".

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, ren hoek said:

I don't recall the exact words but she described digital penetration by Joe Biden.  I've listened to the full hour interview and her interview on DN! and read multiple pieces on it. 

I've listened to it too, or a good portion of it. I'm curious about your opinion about something - twice at least Reade mentions that she did not raise the actual assault - as opposed to the inappropriate touching/closeness claims, which she did raise - to supervisors. - This was 1993. Bob Packwood was run out of Congress in 1995. On the one hand we can say there was obviously a culture of harassment at Congress then, but on the other we can say that with proper pressure that was a stage that something could be done about it. - You can listen to Reade address this question directly from Halper at ~19:20. She says she may have raised it with a woman whose name is redacted but I take it was a supervisor of some kind, but - similar to her claim about the Nevada Co. Union reporter - she claims that she was shut down. It's really the same phrasing. And actually in fact ~19:40 it's not even clear she raised the assault itself, as opposed to the inappropriate touching, with the supervisor. Halper directly asked Reade about this and Reade says she is not sure she did raise it with the supervisor. - Did you listen to this part? What are your thoughts about her explanation of this, especially again why she escalated the inappropriate touching issue but not this?

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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Aren’t Biden’s buddies in the media doing him a great disservice here by covering this up for him?  You would think the campaign would want to deal with this now during the middle of a pandemic and sweep it under the rug.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Aren’t Biden’s buddies in the media doing him a great disservice here by covering this up for him?

IIRC WSJ learned of a story about Stormy Daniels or Karen McDougal late in the election. No one picked it up. No one asked Trump about it. Why do you think that was?

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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17 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

https://twitter.com/kthalps/status/1242691746561167360?lang=en

She continued: “I handed him the thing. He greeted me. He remembered my name. And then we were alone. It was the strangest thing. There was no like exchange really. He just had me up against the wall. I was wearing like a skirt, a business skirt. I wasn’t wearing stockings. It was kind of a hot day that day, and I was wearing heels…I remember I was wearing a blouse, and he just had me up against the wall. And the wall was cold. It happened all at once…his hands were on me and underneath my clothes. Yeah, and he went down my skirt but then up inside it, and he penetrated me with his fingers a little, and he was kissing me at the same time, and he was saying something to me. He said several things. I can’t remember everything he said.”

She added: “I remember a couple of things. I remember him saying, first as he was doing it, ‘Do you want to go somewhere else,’ and then him saying to me when I pulled away. He got finished doing what he was doing, and I pulled back and he said, ‘C’mon man, I heard you liked me,’ and it’s that phrase stayed with me. I kept thinking what I might have said…I can’t remember if he said I thought or heard. He implied that I had done this.

 

^^ For clarity. 

 

 

I think part of the issue is that when she came forward with this, her story was different.  She then changed it recently.

Plus the Russia stuff.

Plus the “cmon man” sounds a bit on the nose and contrived.

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59 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Aren’t Biden’s buddies in the media doing him a great disservice here by covering this up for him?  You would think the campaign would want to deal with this now during the middle of a pandemic and sweep it under the rug.

Not at all. They just want sanders gone first. Then they will cover it. 

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6 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

IIRC WSJ learned of a story about Stormy Daniels or Karen McDougal late in the election. No one picked it up. No one asked Trump about it. Why do you think that was?

And? This is the Joe Biden thread.

 

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29 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

And? This is the Joe Biden thread.

And it's a point about journalism, not Trump. Further up you were asking about why a reporter would not ask a question or run a story. I'm using an example to point to you how that could happen, though supposedly there would be a claim of high bias that liberal MSM journalist would very much want to.

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9 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

IIRC WSJ learned of a story about Stormy Daniels or Karen McDougal late in the election. No one picked it up. No one asked Trump about it. Why do you think that was?

Please keep the content in here about Biden.  We have plenty of Trump threads to discuss this.  TIA!

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1 hour ago, Gopher State said:

Please keep the content in here about Biden.  

See my note above, it’s a point about journalism. Thanks.

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Interesting there's more focus on rehashing the Kavanaugh case and not on defending Biden.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

And it's a point about journalism, not Trump. Further up you were asking about why a reporter would not ask a question or run a story. I'm using an example to point to you how that could happen, though supposedly there would be a claim of high bias that liberal MSM journalist would very much want to.

We have the story, what are you talking about? Your wild hypothetical isn’t needed. It’s a main stream media black ball.

 

Edited by Widbil83

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4 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

Interesting there's more focus on rehashing the Kavanaugh case and not on defending Biden.

The kavanaugh case is the relevant comparison. 

Once the primary is over this story no longer matters. There would need to be a bunch more to even be comparable to trump in the general.

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20 hours ago, ren hoek said:

I've kept up with this thread a bit.  I read the Salon piece.  I did not read/watch the original Reade interview.  I really don't have an opinion on her credibility.  Ultimately, I live in a "safe state", so my POTUS vote is unimportant.  Important or not, I honestly can't think of anything that would cause me to vote for Trump, no matter the opponent.

All that said, the one thing I don't understand here is the endless fascination with Alyssa Milano's opinion on the topic.

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