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My public apology to timscochet (1 Viewer)

Politician Spock

Politician Spock

Footballguy
@timschochet

I'm sorry. I was wrong. And You were right. 

To those not in the know, back during the 2016 Presidential election, tim took issue with me because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Hillary or Trump. His argument was that one of them is going to be worse for the country than the other. I disagreed. I figured we would be no worse off with one or the other, because they would both be equally bad.

After seeing how poorly the US responded to the COVID-19 crisis, I can see how wrong I was. While I still am no fan of Hillary, if Hillary were president, many,  many, MANY more lives would be saved. 

I'm not going to get into the details of why. All I have to say is that she never would have even considered the issue to be a hoax to harm her re-election chances, let alone behaved like that was the case. 

And yes, I'm posting this in a state of anger of how much worse the situation is for the US than it ever had to be. 

 
Lol thanks but you needn’t apologize to me. We’ve had lots of debates and disagreements over the years and I’ve been wrong plenty. I rarely apologize for being wrong because I try to be honest in my beliefs whatever they are. You were honest in your beliefs, you thought you were doing the right thing, and therefore you should never apologize for that. 

The fact that you changed your mind is to your credit, not because I was right on this one issue all along, but because you were willing to accept new information and arrive at a new conclusion. Unfortunately that’s all too rare. 

I should also point out that I was hardly the only person here to believe that Trump would be far worse than Clinton. I can’t take any credit for that at all. And in fact, I wish I had been wrong. 

 
timschochet said:
Lol thanks but you needn’t apologize to me. We’ve had lots of debates and disagreements over the years and I’ve been wrong plenty. I rarely apologize for being wrong because I try to be honest in my beliefs whatever they are. You were honest in your beliefs, you thought you were doing the right thing, and therefore you should never apologize for that. 

The fact that you changed your mind is to your credit, not because I was right on this one issue all along, but because you were willing to accept new information and arrive at a new conclusion. Unfortunately that’s all too rare. 

I should also point out that I was hardly the only person here to believe that Trump would be far worse than Clinton. I can’t take any credit for that at all. And in fact, I wish I had been wrong. 
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Thanks. But I don't recall you being wrong about something that ended up costing us American lives. This is in a whole category of its own. 

 
Wondering when the dust settles how many more will feel the same way you do, Spock, and vote D just to make a change.

Hat tip for the public apology, too.

 
JamieMurphy said:
Wondering when the dust settles how many more will feel the same way you do, Spock, and vote D just to make a change.

Hat tip for the public apology, too.
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It's honestly the only reason I'm considering voting Biden. 

I still think our capitalist system stripping the country down to the studs for max profit is most of what went wrong but Trump made this worse with his personal BS for sure.

 
Politician Spock said:
To those not in the know, back during the 2016 Presidential election, tim took issue with me because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Hillary or Trump. His argument was that one of them is going to be worse for the country than the other. I disagreed. I figured we would be no worse off with one or the other, because they would both be equally bad.
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There were at least a half dozen people, maybe more, who thought Trump would be worse than Hillary. I'm not sure why you're singling out timscochet for an apology.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
There were at least a half dozen people, maybe more, who thought Trump would be worse than Hillary. I'm not sure why you're singling out timscochet for an apology.
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Probably because timschochet was the most vocal in his Hillary support. He almost cackled with delight when she did something right. He was quite the shrill for her.

 
Encumbrance said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
There were at least a half dozen people, maybe more, who thought Trump would be worse than Hillary. I'm not sure why you're singling out timscochet for an apology.
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Probably because timschochet was the most vocal in his Hillary support. He almost cackled with delight when she did something right. He was quite the shrill for her.
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I could understand the dislike for Trump, given I disliked him too. But I never for the life of me could understand why tim like Hillary as much as he did. It was so weird, or as Spock would say, "it's fascinating". 

 
Politician Spock said:
I could understand the dislike for Trump, given I disliked him too. But I never for the life of me could understand why tim like Hillary as much as he did. It was so weird, or as Spock would say, "it's fascinating". 
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I think, in fairness to tim and credit where credit is due, he knew how much better she'd be. And there were clues. His refusal to endorse NATO at all costs was my big hang up and why, if I wasn't in a deep blue state, I would have gone out and voted for Hillary, too. And I loathe Hillary. With a passion.

 
Politician Spock said:
@timschochet

I'm sorry. I was wrong. And You were right. 

To those not in the know, back during the 2016 Presidential election, tim took issue with me because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Hillary or Trump. His argument was that one of them is going to be worse for the country than the other. I disagreed. I figured we would be no worse off with one or the other, because they would both be equally bad.

After seeing how poorly the US responded to the COVID-19 crisis, I can see how wrong I was. While I still am no fan of Hillary, if Hillary were president, many,  many, MANY more lives would be saved. 

I'm not going to get into the details of why. All I have to say is that she never would have even considered the issue to be a hoax to harm her re-election chances, let alone behaved like that was the case. 

And yes, I'm posting this in a state of anger of how much worse the situation is for the US than it ever had to be. 
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Impressed with anyone who is willing to admit they were wrong these days. I was like you and couldn't vote for either but like you it was not significant since neither of us were from close battleground states that Trump won. Although I will admit my state of Mn was closer than I thought it would be. I won't be voting for anyone but whomever the Democratic candidate is this time.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
There were at least a half dozen people, maybe more, who thought Trump would be worse than Hillary. I'm not sure why you're singling out timscochet for an apology.
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C'mon, you're smarter than this. Thinly veiled, at best, thread to be able to say people are dying form the Covid because of Trump. But I'm sure it will be allowed, I mean you cant disprove it.  I mean any other candidate would have been better prepared for a pandemic, right?  

 
dkp993 said:
Well since you asked, yeah probably.  
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Did you know the Tiger King was a candidate last time round?  Its not a provable assertion and would be shut down as a trolling thread in a heartbeat if it were on the other side. 

He doesn't want to apologize to Tim about something 4 years ago. He wants to shout from the rooftop that he thinks Trump is killing people. 

 
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tonydead said:
Did you know the Tiger King was a candidate last time round?  Its not a provable assertion and would be shut down as a trolling thread in a heartbeat if it were on the other side. 

He doesn't want to apologize to Tim about something 4 years ago. He wants to shout from the rooftop that he thinks Trump is killing people. 
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I didn’t know about the Tiger King, no.  But that’s exactly why I hedged my bet with the “probably”.  

As for the rest of your post, maybe maybe not I don’t know PS’s posting style or history well enough to form an opinion on that.  

 
tonydead said:
C'mon, you're smarter than this. Thinly veiled, at best, thread to be able to say people are dying form the Covid because of Trump. But I'm sure it will be allowed, I mean you cant disprove it.  I mean any other candidate would have been better prepared for a pandemic, right?  
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"Any"?  Na....if I had to bet though, I'm betting against Trump.  Odds are on my side that way.  And I like your spin zone...well done.  We have a billion other threads on here shredding Trump, but spin can't have it be something at face value.  It can't be an apology to Tim by another poster.  It has to be the self fulfilling prophecy of "but trump..."

 
The Commish said:
"Any"?  Na....if I had to bet though, I'm betting against Trump.  Odds are on my side that way.  And I like your spin zone...well done.  We have a billion other threads on here shredding Trump, but spin can't have it be something at face value.  It can't be an apology to Tim by another poster.  It has to be the self fulfilling prophecy of "but trump..."
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Well that's exactly what it was.

 
BladeRunner said:
The Commish said:
"Any"?  Na....if I had to bet though, I'm betting against Trump.  Odds are on my side that way.  And I like your spin zone...well done.  We have a billion other threads on here shredding Trump, but spin can't have it be something at face value.  It can't be an apology to Tim by another poster.  It has to be the self fulfilling prophecy of "but trump..."
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Well that's exactly what it was.
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:thanks:

but you'll be asked for your Trump card shortly :kicksrock:  

 
Not exactly what I thought this thread was going to be. We would probably be lucky if Hillary banned travel to China by now if she was wearing the big pantsuit. 

 
tonydead said:
C'mon, you're smarter than this. Thinly veiled, at best, thread to be able to say people are dying form the Covid because of Trump. But I'm sure it will be allowed, I mean you cant disprove it.  I mean any other candidate would have been better prepared for a pandemic, right?  
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It wasn't thinly veiled.  I think it was pretty obvious.  Hillary and everyone else wouldn’t have dismantled the pandemic response team, which undoubtedly have been more helpful and saved more lives than Jared Kushner.

 
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tonydead said:
Hellscape.  :lmao: . Not nearly the traffic during rush hour.  
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With thousands dead, hundreds of thousands more to come, businesses shuttered, lives destroyed...you’re position is this is traffic at rush hour.  I’m gobsmacked at the lack of awareness, let alone the level of callousness, that comment holds.

 
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cobalt_27 said:
I don’t know what planet your living on.
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One where there is a pandemic that sucks, but at worst has a mortality rate less than 1%.  One where I go to work everyday, pick up groceries on the way home when the wife asks and we stay in for food and drink instead of going out.  One where we practise social distancing to keep the hospitals from becoming stressed. Not ideal, but, it's not the end of the world OMG hellfire you're pretending it is.  

 
tonydead said:
One where there is a pandemic that sucks, but at worst has a mortality rate less than 1%.  One where I go to work everyday, pick up groceries on the way home when the wife asks and we stay in for food and drink instead of going out.  One where we practise social distancing to keep the hospitals from becoming stressed. Not ideal, but, it's not the end of the world OMG hellfire you're pretending it is.  
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That’s a unique privilege you have expressed,  My hope is more people take the time than you did here to consider the suffering others, of our own country.

 
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KPD said:
If you read the accounts of the doctors and nurses dealing with hundreds of cases a day and the crematoriums in NYC running 24 hrs a day, I think that description might fit.
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Sure, and I mentioned the mortality rate and the hospitals being stressed. He said the whole country was a hellscape. I sat in a Sonic Drive In today slurping down their version of a Blizzerd while watching dozens and dozens of people pull through the Starbucks next door. I dont think they even have ice cream or coffee in hell.

 
cobalt_27 said:
This is pretty awful, disgusting.  I’ll walk away.
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I think you're being a little over dramatic here.  

Too many appeal to emotion arguments are being made and not enough people are thinking logically.  Yeah, this isn't a good situation but it's not like the great depression where people had to wait in line for food, they didn't have any jobs and they had polio.  Plus a decade earlier they went through the Spanish flu.  You have to sit in your house try to catch up on all the shows you've missed.

The argument that America is some kind of hellscape is ridiculous.  There is no country on Earth that anyone would rather be in.  Your hyperbole is off the charts.

people can't get a grip on their emotions and it all stems from them suffering an unprecedented defeat back in 2016. Trump is not Hitler. Trump is not going to end the world.  this is simply because they were so invested in Hillary winning that when she lost it pushed everyone over the edge.

Here's a great idea: how about getting behind your country and your president?  The petty BS that's been going on for the last three and a half years has done nothing but hurt this country.  

I hope you're prepared for another Trump win.  Not because I think he will win, but because I don't want a civil war to break out because you invested so heavily in Biden winning that another Trump win would literally cause left to go even more insane than they already have. 

You know, prepare for the worst but hope for the best type of thing.  If you prepare for the worst, then you won't be so surprised when it actually happens but you'll be prepared.

 
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BladeRunner said:
I think you're being a little over dramatic here.  

Too many appeal to emotion arguments are being made and not enough people are thinking logically.  Yeah, this isn't a good situation but it's not like the great depression where people had to wait in line for food, they didn't have any jobs and they had polio.  Plus a decade earlier they went through the Spanish flu.  You have to sit in your house try to catch up on all the shows you've missed.

The argument that America is some kind of hellscape is ridiculous.  There is no country on Earth that anyone would rather be in.  Your hyperbole is off the charts.

people can't get a grip on their emotions and it all stems from them suffering an unprecedented defeat back in 2016. Trump is not Hitler. Trump is not going to end the world.  this is simply because they were so invested in Hillary winning that when she lost it pushed everyone over the edge.

Here's a great idea: how about getting behind your country and your president?  The petty BS that's been going on for the last three and a half years has done nothing but hurt this country.  

I hope you're prepared for another Trump win.  Not because I think he will win, but because I don't want a civil war to break out because you invested so heavily in Biden winning that another Trump win would literally cause left to go even more insane than they already have. 

You know, prepare for the worst but hope for the best type of thing.  If you prepare for the worst, then you won't be so surprised when it actually happens but you'll be prepared.
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The habitual pivot to Hillary is remarkable.

It’s a Hellscape.

 
BladeRunner said:
How is it possible to believe Hillary would be better when she's never been president? Sounds like a lot of speculation and assumption once again.
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The biggest reason I didn't like Hillary is that I never knew what her own opinion on anything was. The opinions she expressed all seemed to be given to her and prepared for her. A president obviously relies on his/her cabinet and other advisers to run the country, but at some point most of the time a president has to form their own opinion. I seriously never saw much from her to know what kind of opinions she would form. Basically, I felt if she won, presidential decisions would be made by "group think" instead of by her. I wouldn't go so far to say she was a Manchurian candidate, but I would say there is some overlap. 

However, when it comes to a worldwide pandemic from a virus we know very little about, let alone how to fight it, "group think" is exactly how presidential decisions need to be made now.  The opinion of the president, whoever it is, is pretty meaningless in this area, unless the president has some experience and expertise in pathology and/or other medical fields. The worst thing the president can do in this situation is let their opinion get in the way, and unfortunately Trump is too full of himself to not let his own opinion dictate what we've done as s country to combat it. 

As an example of what I'm talking about, Ohio Govenor Mike DeWine has consistently let "group think" determine what the correct course of action is, and then back those decisions with his own authority. Nothing he has done has been a result of his own opinion of the crisis. Nothing!

 
BladeRunner said:
I think you're being a little over dramatic here.  

Too many appeal to emotion arguments are being made and not enough people are thinking logically.  Yeah, this isn't a good situation but it's not like the great depression where people had to wait in line for food, they didn't have any jobs and they had polio.  Plus a decade earlier they went through the Spanish flu.  You have to sit in your house try to catch up on all the shows you've missed.

The argument that America is some kind of hellscape is ridiculous.  There is no country on Earth that anyone would rather be in.  Your hyperbole is off the charts.

people can't get a grip on their emotions and it all stems from them suffering an unprecedented defeat back in 2016. Trump is not Hitler. Trump is not going to end the world.  this is simply because they were so invested in Hillary winning that when she lost it pushed everyone over the edge.

Here's a great idea: how about getting behind your country and your president?  The petty BS that's been going on for the last three and a half years has done nothing but hurt this country.  

I hope you're prepared for another Trump win.  Not because I think he will win, but because I don't want a civil war to break out because you invested so heavily in Biden winning that another Trump win would literally cause left to go even more insane than they already have. 

You know, prepare for the worst but hope for the best type of thing.  If you prepare for the worst, then you won't be so surprised when it actually happens but you'll be prepared.
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Look, you have to admit these are unprecedented times in our lifetime and scary as ####.  That’s going to lead to people projecting the worst. Now I know this is shocking to hear to people on the right, but his has nothing to do with 2016 and Hillary.  It’s convenient to right it off as lingering anger, it’s the easy talking point, but there are a ton of really scared people out there right now that didn’t like Hillary.  I’m one of them.  

If this goes on for as long as it’s possible it can the absolutely devastating effects this will have on the economy (not to mention the obvious loss of life) will not be a laughing matter, it could very well be what your mocking.  

So yes right now many of us are watching a bunch of Netflix and laying low, but there’s a very real chance, greater then ever at any point in any of our lives, that very very difficult times lie ahead for 10’s of millions. So lingering Hillary loss anger has nothing to do with the fear.  
 

Also I thought the standard talking point from the extreme Pro-T crowd was civil war will break out if he losses because, you know he will have been cheated by the deep state.  But now it’s the left that will start the civil war because they’re angry about Hillary.  Well #### we’re F’d either way I guess.  

 
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dkp993 said:
Look, you have to admit these are unprecedented times in our lifetime and scary as ####.  That’s going to lead to people projecting the worst. Now I know this is shocking to hear to people on the right, but his has nothing to do with 2016 and Hillary.  It’s convenient to right it off as lingering anger, it’s the easy talking point, but there are a ton of really scared people out there right now that didn’t like Hillary.  I’m one of them.  

If this goes on for as long as it’s possible it can the absolutely devastating effects this will have on the economy (not to mention the obvious loss of life) will not be a laughing matter, it could very well be what your mocking.  

So yes right now many of us are watching a bunch of Netflix and laying low, but there’s a very real chance, greater then ever at any point in of our lives, that very very difficult times lie ahead for 10’s of millions. So lingering Hillary loss anger has nothing to do with the fear.  
 

Also I thought the standard talking point from the extreme Pro-T crowd was civil war will break out if he losses because, you know he will have been cheated by the deep state.  But now it’s the left that will start the civil war because they’re angry about Hillary.  Well #### we’re F’d either way I guess.  
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sorry, but the lingering Hillary loss has everything to do with the way the left has overblown just about everything related to Trump.  

This is no different.  Like I said, the investment was so large with Hillary that when she lost it was almost as if the left broke with reality.  So now everything Trump does and says is scrutinized to the umpteenth level and overblown.  The media is nothing but a bunch of negative stories and fear porn.

The plan is always been to get Trump If this is how they have to do it then that's the way they're going to do it.

 
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BladeRunner said:
sorry, but the lingering Hillary loss has everything to do with the way the left has overblown just about everything related to Trump.  

This is no different.  Like I said, the investment was so large with Hillary that when she lost it was almost as if the left broke with reality.  So now everything Trump does and says is scrutinized to the umpteenth level and overblown.  The media is nothing but a bunch of negative stories and fear porn.

The plan is always been to get Trump If this is how they have to do it then that's the way they're going to do it.
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Their was no investment in Hillary.  One of the reasons she lost.

You might as well be talking about Michael Dukakis.

 
BladeRunner said:
sorry, but the lingering Hillary loss has everything to do with the way the left has overblown just about everything related to Trump.  

This is no different.  Like I said, the investment was so large with Hillary that when she lost it was almost as if the left broke with reality.  So now everything Trump does and says is scrutinized to the umpteenth level and overblown.  The media is nothing but a bunch of negative stories and fear porn.

The plan is always been to get Trump If this is how they have to do it then that's the way they're going to do it.
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Well, I’m not “the left.”  I’m just an ordinary guy, voted republican back in the day they were ordinary in their awfulness,  I’m a dad, privileged to be a business owner, husband, and ####ty poker player  I expect more from my president than being a racist, and a crook, and an incompetent tool.  

In a time of crisis, it’s particularly imperative to have a president who can walk and chew gum at the same time, not be crippled to distractions, and golf and rallies and at all costs hold this country and it’s ideals in the highest esteem, elevated to the highest priority.  Trump is more interested in his Facebook rating.  Meanwhile, tens of thousands will be dead or dying next week, hundreds of thousands in a month, million out of work, the country in chaos  because he couldn’t so much as be bothered to listen to his scientific advisors screaming at him to pay the eff attention to this.  We lost months of preparedness and now that we are in this hellscape, he’s deflecting blame, claiming he’s done an ace job, and basically throwing red meat to the MAGA crowd.

 
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BladeRunner said:
sorry, but the lingering Hillary loss has everything to do with the way the left has overblown just about everything related to Trump.  

This is no different.  Like I said, the investment was so large with Hillary that when she lost it was almost as if the left broke with reality.  So now everything Trump does and says is scrutinized to the umpteenth level and overblown.  The media is nothing but a bunch of negative stories and fear porn.

The plan is always been to get Trump If this is how they have to do it then that's the way they're going to do it.
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Man you’re as blinded by your partisan viewpoints as those you rail against if you really believe this.  

Answer me this then, why is it OK for those on the right to passionately hate the Clinton’s but it’s not for the those on the left to with Trump? Why does it have to be about Hillary, can’t it possibly be that Trump is just an extremely polarizing person?

 
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