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Ministry of Pain

America 2.0 Reopening the Country

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, bostonfred said:

https://cdn.iflscience.com/images/610d4613-1b63-5db1-8203-aa881b3f8c09/content-1488280999-animation-7.gif

This is a really good gif showing what different levels of herd immunity look like. 

There are three main things that make you immune to a disease - natural immunity, having had the virus before, and vaccination.  

A year from today, many people will already have gotten the virus. If there's a vaccine in place, then an outbreak won't be nearly as contagious. 

Some people may still get it, but doctors are working to improve testing in asymptomatic people to cut the time it takes to identify a case and quickly quarantine them. 

If fewer people have it, they don't spread it as easily before they're tested, and they can be isolated immediately after they test positive,  and the symptoms can be treated more effectively when someone is sick, the issue will be largely under control.  It's a multi pronged attack.  

I agree that we have done a tremendous job of basically staying home, observing most suggestions laid out by health professionals at the national level. 

-FTR, I hope at the end we look back and shake our heads at some of the ways we are going to behave moving forward or for at least a good while...but at the same time it's better to be safe than sorry. It's impossible to pretend that you can't understand why some folks are more than apprehensive about re-opening. At the same time the long term damage much like the delay in the virus showing up is going to have horrible consequences. 

I have some suggestions that will not be popular or have mass appeal but as an example, i think folks B4 they receive unemployment should have to fill out an application at one of the many businesses that are prospering right now like grocery stores where they are paying entry level teacher salaries right now to keep folks. Even a temporary 60-90 day hire until we get past this mess, it might take longer. And folks who were bussing or waiting on tables cannot be above a well paying grocery store job at this moment in time. And I will even zone in on the 18/21-30 crowd because that is typically the bulk of men and women who go abroad and fight wars. We are not asking them to take a bullet, we're asking them to cover some shifts so some of these front line workers can catch their breath. These people are humans too and they are not being given the same leeway to deal with the virus and sit at home and do bilateral self-propulsion drills any time they choose, am I making any sense BF? 

Ask not what your grocery store can do for you but what you can do for your Produce department. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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2 hours ago, PIK95 said:

I'm 45 and assume I'll be dead pretty soon.  I have asthma and hypertension.  Also have had C-diff so as soon as I pick Corona up I'm toast.  I paid last month's mortgage but probably won't bother anymore.  The good news for my wife and kids is that I have a nice insurance policy. 

My plan is and has been getting my other affairs in order.  I'm trying to get all my film/slides/cd media switched to digital format.  Finishing the basement.  Gonna start writing a book for the kids for after I'm gone.  Giving away possessions and telling wife about the things that are important to me.  I don't want them in a dumpster when I die.  That's it for now.  

Oh man.  Stay positive, things can work out sometimes.

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Restaurants and Bars/Nightclubs

-I don't see how we can re-open these as soon as May 1st, perhaps in some States or areas but I bring this up because when i talk about re-opening the country please understand, I'm not saying WIDE OPEN, I will repeat that I understand why folks have a right to be concerned. I don't advocate sports arenas opening right up. 

But along those lines, all these folks who are out of work in lower paying jobs in service industries, there are companies hiring on the spot right now. Perhaps not everyone that applied for benefits last 2-3 weeks can find a job but a whole bunch could transition over at least temporarily. I bet Charmin is hiring. 

-I don't anticipate all these places being able to re-open, many will close permanently. I don't believe everyone will run right back out and start eating inside these places even when they open and even if social distancing is obeyed. I do believe we will have some of those things in place like SocDis for the foreseeable future. 

-I saw music websites already asking or funneling you into a "donation for this DJ" since they now are completely out of work. Word of virtual nightclubs but good luck getting that organized. 

 

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11 hours ago, fruity pebbles said:

Is there really any doubt that’s what’s gonna happen. 

Honestly I’m a dummy. Is this what we are expecting?  A bunch of shut downs following this one because this thing keeps flaring up like hemorrhoids?

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1 hour ago, Ministry of Pain said:

As I stated up top and I really appreciate your POV, it's not a debate about when we re-open. Some of the country and certain sectors or businesses should be open right now. If workers can be trimming gardens and people can still play golf without a golf cart then the beaches should be open to those who can follow social distancing. Other businesses outside of just big retail grocery stores can mitigate and operate, give them the opportunity and give people who want to work an opportunity to go out and do that. 

-Duly noted Hut, do not agree with the analogy at all. I do think schools should remain closed until the Fall, outside of that I am not down with using children as a way to explain how adults need to react and behave. Protect them by keeping the schools closed, maybe some parents will enjoy home schooling or at least appreciate the job teachers do when they drop them off in the morning every day. As far as some folks are concerned, little Susie or little Johnny can cry themselves to sleep and quickly adapt. Again using children to tug on heart strings is reserved for other threads, we're dealing with adults that can make decisions for themselves. 

Children are just a stand in for the shelter in place, it is not a reference to people. No children were harmed during the filming of this movie. There are plenty of analogies that I have deleted from this post because they would seem overly grim/edgy to make it decidedly not heartwarming (I was seeking more relatable, rather than heartwarming). Plenty of concepts can convey the thought of "doing something quickly to save time can end up taking more time in the long run". 

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1 minute ago, Otis said:

Honestly I’m a dummy. Is this what we are expecting?  A bunch of shut downs following this one because this thing keeps flaring up like hemorrhoids?

If they'll do it once they'll do it again. 

I can think of many scenarios after we pull past this one where an outcry for a "shutdown" and nothing short of it will be used as a battlecry for some organization, party, Floridians, but rest assured this threat will hang over America for a long time, just IMHO. 

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2 minutes ago, huthut said:

Children are just a stand in for the shelter in place, it is not a reference to people. No children were harmed during the filming of this movie. There are plenty of analogies that I have deleted from this post because they would seem overly grim/edgy to make it decidedly not heartwarming (I was seeking more relatable, rather than heartwarming). Plenty of concepts can convey the thought of "doing something quickly to save time can end up taking more time in the long run". 

😂

Good post, got me laughing. 

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5 minutes ago, Otis said:

Honestly I’m a dummy. Is this what we are expecting?  A bunch of shut downs following this one because this thing keeps flaring up like hemorrhoids?

If they start opening things in the next few weeks, I believe so. 

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3 hours ago, PIK95 said:

I'm 45 and assume I'll be dead pretty soon.  I have asthma and hypertension.  Also have had C-diff so as soon as I pick Corona up I'm toast.  I paid last month's mortgage but probably won't bother anymore.  The good news for my wife and kids is that I have a nice insurance policy. 

My plan is and has been getting my other affairs in order.  I'm trying to get all my film/slides/cd media switched to digital format.  Finishing the basement.  Gonna start writing a book for the kids for after I'm gone.  Giving away possessions and telling wife about the things that are important to me.  I don't want them in a dumpster when I die.  That's it for now.  

Don’t get it man. Stay 6-8 feet away from people, wear a mask when you go out, wash your hands vigorously every hour. Don’t really go anywhere. Boost your immune system, get in better shape. Avoid people. Do this until there’s a vaccine. You’ll be ok.

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Just now, fruity pebbles said:

If they start opening things in the next few weeks, I believe so. 

And to make it worse, every State or each Governor will be sort of left to make their own decisions based on...do we know exactly? 

-Tennis Courts should not be closed, that's just not the criminal in this matter, it wasn't the Williams Sisters.  

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

And to make it worse, every State or each Governor will be sort of left to make their own decisions based on...do we know exactly? 

-Tennis Courts should not be closed, that's just not the criminal in this matter, it wasn't the Williams Sisters.  

A tennis ball? May as well just rename that a Corona sponge.

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7 hours ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

A tennis ball? May as well just rename that a Corona sponge.

Singles game, both players serve with their own can of balls. I never have to touch the same can of balls as the opposing player. It's not hard. All tennis players can flip balls up with their rackets off the ground or bounce it with the strings and flip it to the person serving, it's not that hard. 

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11 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

There are scenarios where there isn’t widespread immunity. 

Yes totally true.  But there are scenarios where we are able to reopen relatively soon. The consensus among nurses at my local hospital appears to be June/July in this area, where we're currently peaking right now.  That doesn't mean sharing joints with strangers at fully packed concerts but it's a reasonable time frame for many things to be back to normalcy. 

But that could all go to crap in a heartbeat if people come back too early or stop taking this seriously.  

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Posted (edited)

And this is the type of event I fear most from the fallout. The mental abuse people will suffer and then take it out on others. 

"Florida man threatens to shoot up the Publix"

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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3 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

And this is the type of event I fear most from the fallout. The mental abuse people will suffer and then take it out on others. 

"Florida man threatens to shoot up the Publix"

Mental illness is abundant no matter the situation. 

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5 hours ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Hazmat Waiters

This should get Americans dining out in restaurants again, sounds like a pleasurable experience.

Looks like @Capella might be getting those disposable menus he was asking for.    I know, take it to the good things to come from the corona virus thread.

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On 4/14/2020 at 10:30 PM, Otis said:

Honestly I’m a dummy. Is this what we are expecting?  A bunch of shut downs following this one because this thing keeps flaring up like hemorrhoids?

Of course. First time a kid tests positive being back at school it will be pandemonium. 

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Jacksonville is re-opening their beaches and at 5PM last night it was reported they were quite crowded. 

You knew Florida would likely roll the dice first with all the craziness down here. 

6am-11am and 5pm-8pm are the hours so far up in Jax. 

South Florida is still closed and I expect things to stay locked down a little longer around here, actually am very comfortable with Miami, Ft Laud and Palm beach being almost the last to re-open since we have the most cases in South Florida than other sections. 

Thought I was reading Tampa was preparing to remain closed thru at least end of April and into perhaps May. 

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Maybe I’m misunderstanding the nature of vaccines, but I was under the impression that decreased effectiveness had to do with “predicting the wrong flu”

I read somewhere that the experts try to determine which flu vaccine will be the worst strain in a given year, and vaccinate accordingly (I don’t know why they don’t vaccinate for all strains every year, maybe cost-prohibitive or diminishing returns, I dunno). But I didn’t think the lack of effectiveness was due to it not working, just that people got the other ones.

With this, if it turns out that Covid has a much higher mortality rate than the other strains, wouldn’t we always vaccinate for this strain even if it needs to be done annually? And wouldn’t that mean it’ll be effective for just about everyone who gets vaccinated, save for a tiny fraction of people who reject it or whatever (like with most vaccines)?

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Apparently golf courses in Minnesota are open!

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On 4/16/2020 at 5:37 AM, parasaurolophus said:

Of course. First time a kid tests positive being back at school it will be pandemonium. 

That's why I don't schools will reopen. No school district wants to be the district that reopens and kids die.

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1 hour ago, Mile High said:

That's why I don't schools will reopen. No school district wants to be the district that reopens and kids die.

That and the timing. Let’s say monday May 18th is when we get to that phase of reopen. Are we going for a week and then closing for summer? 
 

For my kids, they’d love to have the closure, but I don’t see the point of forcing the issue just to go for less than a month before summer break. Just focus on reopening in the fall.

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Florida Schools will remain closed as by order of the Governor. 

Kids weren't really learning anything anyways, I speak from personal past experience. 

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Really hope they open some stuff in my state soon.  

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On 4/14/2020 at 7:14 AM, Ministry of Pain said:

Main Focus for now is getting the country reopened.

No. The main focus is to limit fatalities.

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2 hours ago, EYLive said:

No. The main focus is to limit fatalities.

So appreciate your contributions and wanting to post up in this thread, let me help you finish what was written up top that you quoted because there was a little more after that you might have not read. 

"Main Focus for now is getting the country reopened. I will put forth a couple broader ideas but I want to be crystal clear, this is not the thread to try and convince people the country should stay closed thru Christmas."

I agree we need to limit fatalities but people die of an array of things daily that don't seem to have everyone up in arms and there is no reason to turn going to the grocery store into a Civil War.

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Senior Citizens: I live in a golf community with a lot of 65+. Most of Jupiter and areas around have a large community of Seniors and I would hate to see them ravaged with this disease. I think they should be encouraged to stay indoors right now and I like special hours for them at stores but I don't think that really protects them much. 

So many unemployed people right now, should be plenty of hands to assist these people in getting what they need however I also know younger folks simply will not do what I am suggesting and have been throughout this thread. 

Some of you have family or friends that have been fighting it on the frontlines of this epidemic, I have a wife and son who both work in places where they have been expected to show up and continue working while many folks have gotten to work at home. I do not fault the people collecting unemployment however there are tons of jobs right now and maybe the United States should have implemented an unemployment DRAFT and ordered those who lost their jobs in the Restaurant and Bars, especially under the age of say 40 should be ordered to go apply for a job in the grocery store industry as an example. It might only be 90 days but by then the restaurants will have re-opened and their old jobs should be back...no you say? Right because a lot of those businesses will not re-open so we might as well help these people find jobs and maybe send them back to school part time so they can learn something valuable and not find themselves in this spot again in a couple years. 

Back to Senior Citizens who are near and dear to me as I play Tennis with most of the good ones at the PBG Tennis Center on Tue Night and Sat Morn, the Saturday group is epic. There are 12 of us that fill up 3 courts and a lot of them are just flat out funny. I would be really upset if we lost any of them thru this horrible and unplanned event. 

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And I already am getting invitations to start gathering in social groups, again I would like to be clear so folks know I'm not just running schtick in here. 

-I am truly frightened we are going to go too fast in re-opening and I am disappointed to see a small group of protestors dominating the airwaves when that doesn't seem like what is happening here in Florida. We did re-open the beaches and I think most folks that live here are pretty united that those beaches need to be open and if you don't want to be there don't go. 

I know folks would be shocked but I bet only about 20-25% of the population at most actually frequents the beach. In fact in the nicer beaches in more rural parts of the coastline, you don't see nearly as many people walking the sand. We have massive communities WEST of 95 and Turnpike, these people moved to Florida in order to live in the Everglades apparently.

There are so many venues and areas I am not supporting for re-opening. I simply stated up top, why are companies and businesses that can MITIGATE and OPERATE simultaneously, why are they not given the opportunity to try and be open?

Florida will be one of the States to watch for sure. My money is on the virus making another interruption in services and wait until we have a couple nursing homes get ravaged beyond things we have had in the past down here. We have had nursing homes ravaged from a slew of different things but the CV-19 seems to be the most aggressive yet and towards certain sectors like the Seniors. 

-I was invited to church this evening for a Men's group where folks will be wearing masks...I don't want to go.

So I guess I'm saying I want to see more businesses open but I myself would prefer to follow the initial decision to stay at home thru April. I thought that was the message when I started the thread but it seems like there is a race to see which States can beat the April 30th deadline, guess the steak knives they win for First State must be really sharp.   

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