But the economy!
The economy is useless if nobody is around to spend money. Better some sharp pain now, instead of dragging it out. It's like taking a bandaid off, just rip it off and deal with that pain instead of a slow pull.
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Has the cure become worse than the disease? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
The economy is useless if nobody is around to spend money. Better some sharp pain now, instead of dragging it out. It's like taking a bandaid off, just rip it off and deal with that pain instead of a slow pull.
dkp993
Footballguy
I just love the irony of those with a political agenda bashing those with political agenda. The blindspots are just mind blowing.
I don't even believe that there's a political agenda in keeping things closed. Think about it: "Let's keep everyone cooped up for an indeterminate amount of time for a pandemic, then while the virus is still killing thousands a day in this country, let's not reopen too early so people can remain safe, but the economy will suffer in the short term." That's literally what's happening with both Democrat and Republican governors, and there's apparently a liberal political agenda behind it all. That defies logic.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Yeah, clearly nothing to see as far as a political agenda......
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/767110-trump-opponents-would-you-rather-have-a-recession-or-trump-re-election/?tab=comments#comment-21110712
Apple Jack
Footballguy
C'mon guys, it's totally a librul conspiracy to get unemployed and broke in order to make the stable genius look...how, exactly?
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Insomniac
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Would you kindly explain the link between a hypothetical poll from June of 2018 on an internet message board asking about a recession and the pandemic that is going on right now, in real life, and the decisions being being made by GOP and Dem Governors to do what they feel is best in battling said pandemic?Yeah, clearly nothing to see as far as a political agenda......
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/767110-trump-opponents-would-you-rather-have-a-recession-or-trump-re-election/?tab=comments#comment-21110712
GoBirds
Footballguy
If it voted in that manner I would desperately try to separate myself from it too, well done. Political agendas are sadly always in play in here, 24/7. Very sad.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
I would try to convince myself the same if I took that position. Glad I didn’t and never would.
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Challenge Everything
Footballguy
Oh, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to your reply, the one where you didn't answer the request for a shown link and chose a non sequitur point to make. Now, as for me, I didn't vote in that poll, didn't even check out the thread(I think I wasn't checking out FBG at that time, but I digress), but I can bet at that time the OP posted it, they had no idea that a pandemic would happen within the next 2 year's, bringing with it a recession fueled at least partly by the inadequate response to it. So if you can in fact establish a link between that thread and the governors now having to step into leadership roles thanks to Trump's abdication of responsibility, that would be very impressive.
GoBirds
Footballguy
What agenda would that be? Is it the one where I don't like being lied to by people in high positions who are not effective leaders? Or is it the one where I am trying to find the truth about a deadly pandemic, so I can keep my family healthy?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
same people who said Hillary was going to win in 2016 ?
same people who said we'd see 1-2 million covid-19 deaths in the USA ?
Let me straight up ask - in 2022 there will be another virus - it will kill 50-60,000 American's and the cost is a 5-6 trillion dollar bailout package and 10-15 trillion in economic impact, 5-7% jump in unemployment etc
Would you be ok with doing all this again for 50-60,000 ?
sho nuff
Footballguy
No not the same as polls in 2016 (which were statistically accurate as far as nationwide polling...but not sure what that has to do with this).
1-2 million? Already been discussed every tome its been brought up even by you...those were models based on not taking the measures we have...
And yes...if it keeps 1-2 million from dying...yes we do it again...and 60,000 will be in a months time with drastic measures taken.
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
Give it up, sho. The game is misinformation, disinformation, delusion, and narcissism. They won't have a genuine conversation because when they get backed into a corner, they fight, claw, name call, and laugh, and then claim the previous. You can talk till you're blue in the face, inform them as best you can, but they will still believe Hannity, Rush, Epoch Times, and FOX News. They'd rather be uneducated and call you dumb, than have a genuine discussion.
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
You can't pretend that things would be the same without this extreme mitigation.
The problem with your argument is that you can't imagine anything worse. I'm sure the vision of business as usual under the scenario you are dreaming about is pretty far from what reality would have been.
The Commish
Footballguy
Nevermind 
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The Commish
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Mr Anyonymous was the closest to doing this making blanket statements about the motives of Governors if they didn't interpret the vague "guidelines" the same way he did, though he only mentioned his state specifically. Taking the position to its logical end would mean the other side of his coin is exactly what you describe here. If the Dems are doing it for political reasons, so are the GOPers. I don't buy either position, but it's out there.
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supermike80
Footballguy
People are losing their jobs in carloads, including my wife, who has been with the same company for 32 years.
Yah I think the cure is too harsh. I thought this before she lost her job. I just don't can't get behind the "if we save one life" mentality when I see so many people who will be unable to feed themselves, or pay their rent.
Save me the "if it was your wife who was sick you wouldn't feel that way" Yes that's 100% true. But it isn't true right now. So as of RIGHT NOW I think the cure is way way overboard.
This sucks hard.
Yah I think the cure is too harsh. I thought this before she lost her job. I just don't can't get behind the "if we save one life" mentality when I see so many people who will be unable to feed themselves, or pay their rent.
Save me the "if it was your wife who was sick you wouldn't feel that way" Yes that's 100% true. But it isn't true right now. So as of RIGHT NOW I think the cure is way way overboard.
This sucks hard.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Are you saying:
As long as no immediate family member of mine dies, the cure is worse.
I just want to make sure I’m understanding that right without putting words in your mouth.
ETA: sorry about your wife’s job, btw.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
Sorry to hear about your wife. My wife lost her job of over 30 years as well. Myy son also lost his job, and was hoping to be planning a wedding soon.
We're all in this together.
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supermike80
Footballguy
Thanks man. i wish no ill will on anyone and certainly don't want to see anyone die. It just stinks. We saved well and can pay our bills for quite sometime. But i really feel for those that cant. This will be unbearable for sometime.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
In the end we all want the same thing, no matter what "team" colors we wear. We just have different views on how to handle it, really.
Good luck to your family and especially your wife. I know mine's on her phone right now trying to get through to unemployment while I start yet another day working (no, really) from home.
Stay safe!
jm192
Footballguy
I've been out discussions here for a month or so.
Partly because COVID-19 is the only thing to talk about.
Partly because the conversation is always the same.
I'm conservative and historically pro-Trump for anyone who hasn't interacted with me.
The cure is not worse than the disease. It's easy to say today "we'll take some risk." I guess the question at the end of the day is how much money is your mother's life worth? If you've got a number, there's no convincing you otherwise.
The numbers are bad--and they're so much better than they could be. "The cure" is preventing the real disaster of extrapolating our already disastrous death tolls.
Shut up. Stay home. Or go to Lowes like everyone else seems to be doing.
Partly because COVID-19 is the only thing to talk about.
Partly because the conversation is always the same.
I'm conservative and historically pro-Trump for anyone who hasn't interacted with me.
The cure is not worse than the disease. It's easy to say today "we'll take some risk." I guess the question at the end of the day is how much money is your mother's life worth? If you've got a number, there's no convincing you otherwise.
The numbers are bad--and they're so much better than they could be. "The cure" is preventing the real disaster of extrapolating our already disastrous death tolls.
Shut up. Stay home. Or go to Lowes like everyone else seems to be doing.
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Sorry to hear about your wife's job.
I agree that we can't continue to keep everything shut down for months upon months. That being said, people also have to understand that when things start opening back up, there's going to be a new normal and a very likely chance that the economy isn't just going to immediately rebound as many people will still be very cautious to go out and spend money like they were before.
I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home (and live in Georgia where restaurants and movie theaters are beginning to open back up today) but my company has already said that when we open the office back up (doesn't sound like for at least another couple of weeks), we will be going in shifts of people so only about 30% of the office will actually be going in on a given day. I expect this to be the norm for the companies that do have the work from home flexibility and I think it also paints the broader picture that a good portion of people will continue staying home similar to what they've been doing over the past month or so.
I'm very interested to see how the companies do that open back up in Georgia and other states that are beginning to limit the restrictions. It will be great that some people will be getting their jobs back, but I'm pretty concerned about the negative effects that could result as well. Some of the places that are opening up just make absolutely no sense and are going to be very difficult to practice social distancing in such as nail salons, barber shops and bowling alleys. In a perfect world, everyone would follow social distance protocols and be wearing masks when going out but unfortunately as we've seen during these protests and even in our day to day lives, that's just not going to be the case. Some people still think it's blown out of proportion, aren't' educated on the topic or think they're at a low risk to get it so don't care to buy protective equipment and follow safe measures. While this is just a small portion of the population, we've seen it doesn't take a ton of people in close proximity for this to start spreading like wildfire and I'm concerned that this small percentage will cause the rest of us problems.
The Commish
Footballguy
These are the "hotspots" around me....Lowes and Home Depot. There are more people in those stores now than during hurricane season. I don't know what changed, but this weekend was absolute madness. The only reason I was even out was because of a leak in our upstairs tub. I have no idea what people are doing in the stores...they're busier than the Walmart. As this fiasco moves forward and the stupid continues, the only shot our family has is to try and go to the stores during the week and then stay home the whole weekend. I'm not going anywhere near those places on a weekend....so dumb.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
models that were reported as accurate - EVERYTHING changes, there are fluctuations continually which is why models are rarely accurate
remember, models are NOT accurate, they're guesses
Stealthycat
Footballguy
its models, its polling, its media releasing what if's and what might be'sWTF?!?!
This has NOTHING to do with polling of any sort.
and they're wrong, a lot
"guesses" can be accurate...
if you have good data.
But, if the data changes, like say, the number of spreads per infection drops, then that changes the model.
timschochet
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
If by "they're" you mean the media, I agree. The rest, no...not at all. When a model says "if you don't do X you'll have 1000 deaths on your hands" it isn't "wrong" when we actually DO X and have less than 1000 deaths. That's not how those things work and it's dishonest to suggest otherwise.
sho nuff
Footballguy
And IIRC, you are in the medical field?
And yes...a lot of people at home depot places...but I will give them credit there...limiting how many people come in to the store and doing a decent job at least at ours of moving people through the store to keep distancing. I wouldn't have went...but had to have a new wax ring to replace in a leaky toilet. Always fun.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Polls were reported as polls...they are a probability of things (and most national ones hit pretty close or withing the margin of error...they were statistically solid).
Also...the models were based on not taking the distancing measures we have taken. And yes...they get adjusted as people start changing their behavior...that is the nature of science.
Remember...the guesses are based on legitimate science...not lies meant to hurt you and Trump. And you still can't seem to acknowledge that the numbers discussed were if we didn't stay at home and didn't keep distancing and so on. Want to see what the models look like about how fast hospitals can be overrun if we return too soon? Worst case...46 days if the transmission rate spikes...
https://www.wkrn.com/community/health/coronavirus/vanderbilt-releases-new-projections-about-covid-19-spread-after-economic-re-open/
https://fox17.com/news/local/tennesseans-researchers-share-concerns-over-reopening-state
Also...if you read the quotes in those...those who do these studies admit from the start they can't know for sure...that its based on historical data of respiratory illnesses. That its based on what they have seen from this virus in places.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
I don't get it. My wife wanted us to go to Home Depot yesterday (we didn't). She wanted to get "supplies" (
). I told her the only things I really need are more charcoal and maybe some smoke wood. LOL.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Its part of why I won't just start going places right away when the stay at home orders are over. Because the first people that will be heading out are the ones that are less likely to have been taking any of this seriously and the ones that will go back to doing things how they did before. The people most likely, IMO, to be the cause of a 2nd wave of this.I don't get it. My wife wanted us to go to Home Depot yesterday (we didn't). She wanted to get "supplies" (
jm192
Footballguy
Yeah. We’ve been blessed in my neck of the woods. We have 3-5 cases at a time and only a handful have been critically ill.
I think our community is doing a good job of social distancing/staying at home.
But everyone is at Lowes. As you said, they’re doing a good job. Only so many in at a time. Waiting spots are marked off 6 feet apart.
My wife and I moved into a new house a few months ago and worms are coming into the basement when it rains. So I’ve learned what weather stripping is and how much of a pain it is to replace. (Though it’s probably easier for most other people.)
Thunderlips
Footballguy
A) I don't believe this will end up being just 50,000 - 60,000.
B) I would hope that those who are dismissing this as "only 50,000 - 60,000 and get back to doing what we normally do" would take the time to actually see this particular non vaccine/non defensible by human immune system virus (so far) as a reach teachable moment to start to prepare and reform human society to be able to better handle one that kills 5 - 6M in the same timeframe. To that, I think this is where "pro- GET BACK TO WORK AND STOP BEING SUCH A WIMP" are complexly visionless. I'm not saying this isn't a serious virus...as I don't know...… but it has given us a practice run for something way more serious....and this should be used as a real teachable and transformative moment...….not as just political fodder to try to keep Trump in the White House for another term.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Haha yea...the wax ring toilet fix was only easy this time because it was the 2nd time I have done it...
sho nuff
Footballguy
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Challenge Everything
Footballguy
This reply isn't about you, specifically, but rather the thought process. Allow me to try to write this out coherently:
Too many people are putting their jobs ahead of their health. You're ranting about people losing jobs at the, possible, cost of losing their life. When a society puts working above and beyond the health and liberty of people... that is a problem. And, if that is what people classify "Capitalism" as, then the morphing of what Capitalism has become is demonstrably dangerous, bad, and time to die itself.
You and others complain about having to stay home to stay healthy, when we all should be complaining about how we are enslaved to jobs that, try, to keep our lives going. The jobs we have should be looking out for our health and well-being... we the people shouldn't be looking out for the health of the economy above and beyond the health of our neighbor.
This whole phrase of the "cure is worse than the disease" need to look into where that phrase came from. Where did it originate and look at the guys background. Is this who you want to follow? Is this guys philosophy the one you agree with? The person, I believe, that began saying it during this crisis is Kevin D. Williamson. Is this who you want to follow?
And, look at who people are listening to when it comes to loosening restrictions. Hannity, makes $36 million a year. Carlson, makes $6 million a year but also part of the Swanson family. Some of you are listening to million/billionaires who care nothing about you. This list goes on.
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Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
If this week looks like last week, we may go over 60k confirmed dead tomorrow. By the end of the day Friday if will be over 67k.
I'm really sorry about your wife. I keep thinking about the people who have lost jobs during this pandemic and how, whenever I've lost my job in the past, I wanted to get out there and start pounding the pavement right away. I'm sure that whatever you guys are going through must be compounded by the fact that it's much harder to do that right now.
And you're right, this whole thing sucks hard. I realized this weekend that it wasn't good for my mental health to spend all this time in the PSF arguing about this zero-sum issue of jobs vs. lives. (I mean, it's not good to spend as much time as I do in this forum for a number of reasons, but this is the life we have chosen). At least where we are right now, no matter what we do will result in lots of really horrific consequences, and I don't want to spend my time minimizing any of it or assigning blame. It's like we're all trapped on a deserted island arguing over which one of us we're all going to eat to keep the rest of the group alive. I'd much rather focus on getting the $#@#% off the island.
I still have a lot about this crisis that I'm trying to process, but to the extent that I continue posting on this board, it will be in the FFA and focus on things that can actually give me hope as opposed to bumming me out.
Good luck to both of you (and everyone else dealing with health/economic crises right now).
moleculo
Footballguy
curbside delivery FTW.
I installed a couple ceiling fans over the weekend. Picked out what we wanted on-line, and opted for curbside delivery. They email you when your product is ready to go. All you do is go to Lowes, park in the designated parking spot, call them up and give them the order number and your parking spot and an associate brings the parts out and loads into your trunk. Zero face-to-face interaction necessary.
Yeah, it maybe takes a couple of hours for them to pull your parts but zero hassle.
supermike80
Footballguy
I reject this. The people who also are saying things like we should shut everything down until June have JOBS and are in a position to say that. So while it appears since you only mentioned Hannity and Carlson that only republicans are the ones that don't care, I would counter that isn't true. It's super easy to tell people to stay home when you have a job that won't be impacted.
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