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TripItUp

Has the cure become worse than the disease?

Has the cure become worse than the disease?  

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21 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

What happened to the predictions of us having 2 Million deaths?

Or us having a ventilator shortage?

Or a death rate that was expected to be 3%?

 

Doom and gloom prognostications are not getting old, they are ruining lives unnecessarily.  

Shame on the liberal media for pedaling lies and creating false narratives for a political agenda.

Its almost as of those were based on not taking extreme steps?


Ruining lives unnecessarily?  Have a source to back ip that the measures taken were not necessary?

It wasn't lies or false narratives pushed by liberals or media.  They were projections the medical community were making.

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The phrase "better late than never" does not hold much water in this case.

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2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Its almost as of those were based on not taking extreme steps?


Ruining lives unnecessarily?  Have a source to back ip that the measures taken were not necessary?

It wasn't lies or false narratives pushed by liberals or media.  They were projections the medical community were making.

Apparently medical science has an agenda, and here I thought it was to help people live longer.

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Just now, Kal El said:

Apparently medical science has an agenda, and here I thought it was to help people live longer.

 It appears like they have something against dead people.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Fully aware.

Quote

 

Dr. Birx: (16:57)
Thank you Mr. President. If I can have the first slide please. So always, and that’s what the slide is labeled, is goals of community mitigation. Really highlighting that this begins in the middle and the end with community. This community and the community of the American people that are going to have to do the things for the next 30 days to make a difference. I think you know from that large blue mountain that you can see behind me and I just want to thank the five or six international and domestic modelers from Harvard, from Columbia, from Northeastern, from Imperial, who helped us tremendously. It was their models that created the ability to see what these mitigations could do, how steeply they could depress the curve from that giant blue mountain down to that more stippled area.


In their estimates, they had between 1.5 million 2.2 million people in the United States succumbing to this virus without mitigation. Yet through their detailed studies and showing us what social distancing would do, what would happen if people stayed home, what would happen if people were careful every day to wash their hands and worry about touching their faces. That what an extraordinary thing this could be if every American followed these. And it takes us to that stippled mountain that’s much lower, a hill actually, down to 100,000-200,000 deaths, which is still way too much. 

 

This is the White House citing scientists, right, not some liberal fever dream?

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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9 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

 It appears like they have something against dead people.

After all, how will a dead guy pull himself up by his bootstraps?

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32 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Pick any number, it was too high.

"15 down to zero" was the first number I'd heard about it :shrug: 

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40 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Shame on the liberal media for pedaling lies and creating false narratives for a political agenda.

It’s interesting how you continue to dismiss 2000+ people a day dying, the #1 killer of America everyday right now and 50k in 4 weeks.  Who again is the one with a political agenda and false narrative here?  I think the answer is extraordinarily clear for anyone without a political agenda.  

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3 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

It’s interesting how you continue to dismiss 2000+ people a day dying, the #1 killer of America everyday right now and 50k in 4 weeks.  Who again is the one with a political agenda and false narrative here?  I think the answer is extraordinarily clear for anyone without a political agenda.  

But the economy!

The economy is useless if nobody is around to spend money. Better some sharp pain now, instead of dragging it out. It's like taking a bandaid off, just rip it off and deal with that pain instead of a slow pull. 

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

But the economy!

The economy is useless if nobody is around to spend money. Better some sharp pain now, instead of dragging it out. It's like taking a bandaid off, just rip it off and deal with that pain instead of a slow pull. 

I just love the irony of those with a political agenda bashing those with political agenda.  The blindspots are just mind blowing.   

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1 minute ago, dkp993 said:

I just love the irony of those with a political agenda bashing those with political agenda.  The blindspots are just mind blowing.   

I don't even believe that there's a political agenda in keeping things closed. Think about it: "Let's keep everyone cooped up for an indeterminate amount of time for a pandemic, then while the virus is still killing thousands a day in this country, let's not reopen too early so people can remain safe, but the economy will suffer in the short term." That's literally what's happening with both Democrat and Republican governors, and there's apparently a liberal political agenda behind it all. That defies logic.

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11 minutes ago, Kal El said:

I don't even believe that there's a political agenda in keeping things closed. Think about it: "Let's keep everyone cooped up for an indeterminate amount of time for a pandemic, then while the virus is still killing thousands a day in this country, let's not reopen too early so people can remain safe, but the economy will suffer in the short term." That's literally what's happening with both Democrat and Republican governors, and there's apparently a liberal political agenda behind it all. That defies logic.

Yeah, clearly nothing to see as far as a political agenda......🤯

 

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/767110-trump-opponents-would-you-rather-have-a-recession-or-trump-re-election/?tab=comments#comment-21110712

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Posted (edited)

C'mon guys, it's totally a librul conspiracy to get unemployed and broke in order to make the stable genius look...how, exactly?

Edited by Apple Jack

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2 hours ago, Leroy Hoard said:

Wow, Henry Ford vs. Bladerumber. This should be an even fight.

How did the state athletic commission sanction this fight?

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40 minutes ago, GoBirds said:
53 minutes ago, Kal El said:

I don't even believe that there's a political agenda in keeping things closed. Think about it: "Let's keep everyone cooped up for an indeterminate amount of time for a pandemic, then while the virus is still killing thousands a day in this country, let's not reopen too early so people can remain safe, but the economy will suffer in the short term." That's literally what's happening with both Democrat and Republican governors, and there's apparently a liberal political agenda behind it all. That defies logic.

Yeah, clearly nothing to see as far as a political agenda......🤯

 

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/767110-trump-opponents-would-you-rather-have-a-recession-or-trump-re-election/?tab=comments#comment-21110712

Would you kindly explain the link between a hypothetical poll from June of 2018 on an internet message board asking about a recession and the pandemic that is going on right now, in real life, and the decisions being being made by GOP and Dem Governors to do what they feel is best in battling said pandemic?

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29 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Would you kindly explain the link between a hypothetical poll from June of 2018 on an internet message board asking about a recession and the pandemic that is going on right now, in real life, and the decisions being being made by GOP and Dem Governors to do what they feel is best in battling said pandemic?

If it voted in that manner I would desperately try to separate myself from it too, well done. Political agendas are sadly always in play in here, 24/7. Very sad. 

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2 hours ago, TripItUp said:

What happened to the predictions of us having 2 Million deaths?

Or us having a ventilator shortage?

Or a death rate that was expected to be 3%?

 

Doom and gloom prognostications are not getting old, they are ruining lives unnecessarily.  

Shame on the liberal media for pedaling lies and creating false narratives for a political agenda.

The media is powerful enough to corral Trump into guidelines?  Interesting.....

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1 minute ago, GoBirds said:

If it voted in that manner I would desperately try to separate myself from it too, well done. Political agendas are sadly always in play in here, 24/7. Very sad. 

That didn't even come close to establishing a link.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Kal El said:

That didn't even come close to establishing a link.

I would try to convince myself the same if I took that position. Glad I didn’t and never would. 

Edited by GoBirds
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2 hours ago, TripItUp said:

What happened to the predictions of us having 2 Million deaths?

Or us having a ventilator shortage?

Or a death rate that was expected to be 3%?

 

Doom and gloom prognostications are not getting old, they are ruining lives unnecessarily.  

Shame on the liberal media for pedaling lies and creating false narratives for a political agenda.

Is the virus over? Anyway, we're right where the scientists said we'd be and we've done a terrible job so far.

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5 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

I would try to convince myself the same if I took that position. Glad I didn’t and never would. 

Oh, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to your reply, the one where you didn't answer the request for a shown link and chose a non sequitur point to make. Now, as for me, I didn't vote in that poll, didn't even check out the thread(I think I wasn't checking out FBG at that time, but I digress), but I can bet at that time the OP posted it, they had no idea that a pandemic would happen within the next 2 year's, bringing with it a recession fueled at least partly by the inadequate response to it. So if you can in fact establish a link between that thread and the governors now having to step into leadership roles thanks to Trump's abdication of responsibility, that would be very impressive.

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

Oh, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to your reply, the one where you didn't answer the request for a shown link and chose a non sequitur point to make. Now, as for me, I didn't vote in that poll, didn't even check out the thread(I think I wasn't checking out FBG at that time, but I digress), but I can bet at that time the OP posted it, they had no idea that a pandemic would happen within the next 2 year's, bringing with it a recession fueled at least partly by the inadequate response to it. So if you can in fact establish a link between that thread and the governors now having to step into leadership roles thanks to Trump's abdication of responsibility, that would be very impressive.

You having to try this hard proves my point just fine. Your agenda is clear. 

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Just now, GoBirds said:

You having to try this hard proves my point just fine. Your agenda is clear. 

What agenda would that be? Is it the one where I don't like being lied to by people in high positions who are not effective leaders? Or is it the one where I am trying to find the truth about a deadly pandemic, so I can keep my family healthy?

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5 hours ago, zftcg said:

, but there is actually a widely used statistical method for measuring incremental fatalities based on what would be the expected baseline for that time period.

same people who said Hillary was going to win in 2016 ?

same people who said we'd see 1-2 million covid-19 deaths in the USA ?

 

Let me straight up ask - in 2022 there will be another virus - it will kill 50-60,000 American's and the cost is a 5-6 trillion dollar bailout package and 10-15 trillion in economic impact, 5-7% jump in unemployment etc

Would you be ok with doing all this again for 50-60,000 ?

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

same people who said Hillary was going to win in 2016 ?

same people who said we'd see 1-2 million covid-19 deaths in the USA ?

 

Let me straight up ask - in 2022 there will be another virus - it will kill 50-60,000 American's and the cost is a 5-6 trillion dollar bailout package and 10-15 trillion in economic impact, 5-7% jump in unemployment etc

Would you be ok with doing all this again for 50-60,000 ?

No not the same as polls in 2016 (which were statistically accurate as far as nationwide polling...but not sure what that has to do with this).
 

1-2 million?  Already been discussed every tome its been brought up even by you...those were models based on not taking the measures we have...
And yes...if it keeps 1-2 million from dying...yes we do it again...and 60,000 will be in a months time with drastic measures taken.  

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48 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

No not the same as polls in 2016 (which were statistically accurate as far as nationwide polling...but not sure what that has to do with this).
 

1-2 million?  Already been discussed every tome its been brought up even by you...those were models based on not taking the measures we have...
And yes...if it keeps 1-2 million from dying...yes we do it again...and 60,000 will be in a months time with drastic measures taken.  

Give it up, sho. The game is misinformation, disinformation, delusion, and narcissism. They won't have a genuine conversation because when they get backed into a corner, they fight, claw, name call, and laugh, and then claim the previous. You can talk till you're blue in the face, inform them as best you can, but they will still believe Hannity, Rush, Epoch Times, and FOX News. They'd rather be uneducated and call you dumb, than have a genuine discussion.

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4 hours ago, TripItUp said:

What happened to the predictions of us having 2 Million deaths?

Or us having a ventilator shortage?

Or a death rate that was expected to be 3%?

 

Doom and gloom prognostications are not getting old, they are ruining lives unnecessarily.  

Shame on the liberal media for pedaling lies and creating false narratives for a political agenda.

You can't pretend that things would be the same without this extreme mitigation.

The problem with your argument is that you can't imagine anything worse.   I'm sure the vision of business as usual under the scenario you are dreaming about is pretty far from what reality would have been.

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Has anyone accused conservatives of wanting society opened up solely because that is the only way Trump will get re-elected?

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9 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

same people who said Hillary was going to win in 2016 ?

same people who said we'd see 1-2 million covid-19 deaths in the USA ?

 

Let me straight up ask - in 2022 there will be another virus - it will kill 50-60,000 American's and the cost is a 5-6 trillion dollar bailout package and 10-15 trillion in economic impact, 5-7% jump in unemployment etc

Would you be ok with doing all this again for 50-60,000 ?

WTF?!?!  :lmao:

This has NOTHING to do with polling of any sort.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, moleculo said:

Has anyone accused conservatives of wanting society opened up solely because that is the only way Trump will get re-elected?

Mr Anyonymous was the closest to doing this making blanket statements about the motives of Governors if they didn't interpret the vague "guidelines" the same way he did, though he only mentioned his state specifically.  Taking the position to its logical end would mean the other side of his coin is exactly what you describe here. If the Dems are doing it for political reasons, so are the GOPers.  I don't buy either position, but it's out there.

Edited by The Commish

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People are losing their jobs in carloads, including my wife, who has been with the same company for 32 years.

Yah I think the cure is too harsh.  I thought this before she lost her job.  I just don't can't get behind the "if we save one life" mentality when I see so many people who will be unable to feed themselves, or pay their rent.  

Save me the "if it was your wife who was sick you wouldn't feel that way"  Yes that's 100% true.  But it isn't true right now. So as of RIGHT NOW I think the cure is way way overboard.

This sucks hard.  

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

People are losing their jobs in carloads, including my wife, who has been with the same company for 32 years.

Yah I think the cure is too harsh.  I thought this before she lost her job.  I just don't can't get behind the "if we save one life" mentality when I see so many people who will be unable to feed themselves, or pay their rent.  

Save me the "if it was your wife who was sick you wouldn't feel that way"  Yes that's 100% true.  But it isn't true right now. So as of RIGHT NOW I think the cure is way way overboard.

This sucks hard.  

Are you saying:

As long as no immediate family member of mine dies, the cure is worse.

I just want to make sure I’m understanding that right without putting words in your mouth.

ETA: sorry about your wife’s job, btw. 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

People are losing their jobs in carloads, including my wife, who has been with the same company for 32 years.

Sorry to hear about your wife. My wife lost her job of over 30 years as well. Myy son also lost his job, and was hoping to be planning a wedding soon.

We're all in this together.

Edited by Amused to Death
My son didn't have his job for 30 years.

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Just now, Amused to Death said:

Sorry to hear about your wife. My wife lost her job of over 30 years as well. So has my son, who was hoping to be planning a wedding soon.

We're all in this together.

Thanks man.  i wish no ill will on anyone and certainly don't want to see anyone die.  It just stinks.  We saved well and can pay our bills for quite sometime.  But i really feel for those that cant.  This will be unbearable for sometime.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Thanks man.  i wish no ill will on anyone and certainly don't want to see anyone die.  It just stinks.  We saved well and can pay our bills for quite sometime.  But i really feel for those that cant.  This will be unbearable for sometime.

In the end we all want the same thing, no matter what "team" colors we wear. We just have different views on how to handle it, really.

Good luck to your family and especially your wife. I know mine's on her phone right now trying to get through to unemployment while I start yet another day working (no, really) from home.

Stay safe!

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I've been out discussions here for a month or so.  

Partly because COVID-19 is the only thing to talk about. 

Partly because the conversation is always the same.  

I'm conservative and historically pro-Trump for anyone who hasn't interacted with me. 

The cure is not worse than the disease.  It's easy to say today "we'll take some risk."  I guess the question at the end of the day is how much money is your mother's life worth?  If you've got a number, there's no convincing you otherwise.  

The numbers are bad--and they're so much better than they could be.  "The cure" is preventing the real disaster of extrapolating our already disastrous death tolls.  

Shut up.  Stay home.  Or go to Lowes like everyone else seems to be doing.  

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

People are losing their jobs in carloads, including my wife, who has been with the same company for 32 years.

Yah I think the cure is too harsh.  I thought this before she lost her job.  I just don't can't get behind the "if we save one life" mentality when I see so many people who will be unable to feed themselves, or pay their rent.  

Save me the "if it was your wife who was sick you wouldn't feel that way"  Yes that's 100% true.  But it isn't true right now. So as of RIGHT NOW I think the cure is way way overboard.

This sucks hard.  

Sorry to hear about your wife's job. 

I agree that we can't continue to keep everything shut down for months upon months. That being said, people also have to understand that when things start opening back up, there's going to be a new normal and a very likely chance that the economy isn't just going to immediately rebound as many people will still be very cautious to go out and spend money like they were before. 

I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home (and live in Georgia where restaurants and movie theaters are beginning to open back up today) but my company has already said that when we open the office back up (doesn't sound like for at least another couple of weeks), we will be going in shifts of people so only about 30% of the office will actually be going in on a given day. I expect this to be the norm for the companies that do have the work from home flexibility and I think it also paints the broader picture that a good portion of people will continue staying home similar to what they've been doing over the past month or so.

I'm very interested to see how the companies do that open back up in Georgia and other states that are beginning to limit the restrictions. It will be great that some people will be getting their jobs back, but I'm pretty concerned about the negative effects that could result as well. Some of the places that are opening up just make absolutely no sense and are going to be very difficult to practice social distancing in such as nail salons, barber shops and bowling alleys. In a perfect world, everyone would follow social distance protocols and be wearing masks when going out but unfortunately as we've seen during these protests and even in our day to day lives, that's just not going to be the case. Some people still think it's blown out of proportion, aren't' educated on the topic or think they're at a low risk to get it so don't care to buy protective equipment and follow safe measures. While this is just a small portion of the population, we've seen it doesn't take a ton of people in close proximity for this to start spreading like wildfire and I'm concerned that this small percentage will cause the rest of us problems. 

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19 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I've been out discussions here for a month or so.  

Partly because COVID-19 is the only thing to talk about. 

Partly because the conversation is always the same.  

I'm conservative and historically pro-Trump for anyone who hasn't interacted with me. 

The cure is not worse than the disease.  It's easy to say today "we'll take some risk."  I guess the question at the end of the day is how much money is your mother's life worth?  If you've got a number, there's no convincing you otherwise.  

The numbers are bad--and they're so much better than they could be.  "The cure" is preventing the real disaster of extrapolating our already disastrous death tolls.  

Shut up.  Stay home.  Or go to Lowes like everyone else seems to be doing.  

These are the "hotspots" around me....Lowes and Home Depot.  There are more people in those stores now than during hurricane season.  I don't know what changed, but this weekend was absolute madness.  The only reason I was even out was because of a leak in our upstairs tub.  I have no idea what people are doing in the stores...they're busier than the Walmart.  As this fiasco moves forward and the stupid continues, the only shot our family has is to try and go to the stores during the week and then stay home the whole weekend.  I'm not going anywhere near those places on a weekend....so dumb.

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11 hours ago, sho nuff said:

No not the same as polls in 2016 (which were statistically accurate as far as nationwide polling...but not sure what that has to do with this).
 

1-2 million?  Already been discussed every tome its been brought up even by you...those were models based on not taking the measures we have...
And yes...if it keeps 1-2 million from dying...yes we do it again...and 60,000 will be in a months time with drastic measures taken.  

models that were reported as accurate - EVERYTHING changes, there are fluctuations continually which is why models are rarely accurate

remember, models are NOT accurate, they're guesses 

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

WTF?!?!  :lmao:

This has NOTHING to do with polling of any sort.

its models, its polling, its media releasing what if's and what might be's 

and they're wrong, a lot

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

remember, models are NOT accurate, they're guesses 

"guesses" can be accurate...

 

if you have good data.

 

But, if the data changes, like say, the number of spreads per infection drops, then that changes the model.

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Media - "It is raining outside.  If you do not use an umbrella, you will get soaked."

 

Stealthycat (uses umbrella): " :shrug: I did not get soaked, therefore the media lied to me!"

 

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

its models, its polling, its media releasing what if's and what might be's 

and they're wrong, a lot

If by "they're" you mean the media, I agree.  The rest, no...not at all.  When a model says "if you don't do X you'll have 1000 deaths on your hands" it isn't "wrong" when we actually DO X and have less than 1000 deaths.  That's not how those things work and it's dishonest to suggest otherwise.

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42 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I've been out discussions here for a month or so.  

Partly because COVID-19 is the only thing to talk about. 

Partly because the conversation is always the same.  

I'm conservative and historically pro-Trump for anyone who hasn't interacted with me. 

The cure is not worse than the disease.  It's easy to say today "we'll take some risk."  I guess the question at the end of the day is how much money is your mother's life worth?  If you've got a number, there's no convincing you otherwise.  

The numbers are bad--and they're so much better than they could be.  "The cure" is preventing the real disaster of extrapolating our already disastrous death tolls.  

Shut up.  Stay home.  Or go to Lowes like everyone else seems to be doing.  

And IIRC, you are in the medical field?

And yes...a lot of people at home depot places...but I will give them credit there...limiting how many people come in to the store and doing a decent job at least at ours of moving people through the store to keep distancing.  I wouldn't have went...but had to have a new wax ring to replace in a leaky toilet.  Always fun.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

models that were reported as accurate - EVERYTHING changes, there are fluctuations continually which is why models are rarely accurate

remember, models are NOT accurate, they're guesses 

 

 

Polls were reported as polls...they are a probability of things (and most national ones hit pretty close or withing the margin of error...they were statistically solid).

Also...the models were based on not taking the distancing measures we have taken.  And yes...they get adjusted as people start changing their behavior...that is the nature of science.

Remember...the guesses are based on legitimate science...not lies meant to hurt you and Trump.  And you still can't seem to acknowledge that the numbers discussed were if we didn't stay at home and didn't keep distancing and so on.  Want to see what the models look like about how fast hospitals can be overrun if we return too soon?  Worst case...46 days if the transmission rate spikes...

https://www.wkrn.com/community/health/coronavirus/vanderbilt-releases-new-projections-about-covid-19-spread-after-economic-re-open/

https://fox17.com/news/local/tennesseans-researchers-share-concerns-over-reopening-state

Also...if you read the quotes in those...those who do these studies admit from the start they can't know for sure...that its based on historical data of respiratory illnesses.  That its based on what they have seen from this virus in places.

 

Edited by sho nuff

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