Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Has the cure become worse than the disease? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
dkp993
Footballguy
My mother is on the cutting edge of exactly this. She runs a 30 Doctor 7 location practice that includes some urgent care facilities. In a pilot program in conjunction with government financial support where they have switched to a “membership” (for the lack of a better term) monthly fee system for the patiences. They (being my mothers business) report against the results of the care for the patient base and are rewarded for upward health trend. This facilities a preventative health care management style. The program is in it’s 3 yr and crushing. It’s success has prompted requests for my mom to speak at some pretty predominant conferences in that last few years.
Last edited by a moderator:
dkp993
Footballguy
In lots of cases outstanding. My father in law wouldn’t be alive if not for the VA.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
This post is all over the place with bad math and conjecture.
It's not 68k vs 90k, Stealthy.
It's 90,631 vs. 90,931.
You are committing post fraud.
sho nuff
Footballguy
A reminder that when Michelle Obama made this the focus of her First Ladyship, the right completely freaked out
Max Power
Footballguy
I must have missed this.
I'd support a sin tax though, but I think the left calls that racist.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
They do? That’s news to me. I’m one liberal who generally supports them.
Also, Obama’s initiative had nothing to do with taxes, sin or otherwise. It consisted purely of exhortations to exercise and eat healthier. The right still freaked out
Max Power
Footballguy
I don't remember a freak out over "lets move". I wasnt big into politics back then though. Who was upset and why?
Eh, the usual suspects on Fox and such. Here's a roundup I found after a two-second Google search. I think the complaints mainly centered around nanny state-ism, but really boiled down to "If she's fer' it, we're agin' it!"
Anyway, I didn't mean to imply that you were being hypocritical or anything. I'm glad we agree on the value of encouraging a healthy lifestyle as a way to control future healthcare costs. I think there were some very modest steps in the ACA around this goal (calorie counts and such) but I'm not sure they've had much of an impact.
I remember thinking the same thing, and then back during the debate over the ACA reading something about how this issue was actually more complex than it sounds, and the whole preventative focus has historically not been a way to reduce overall healthcare spending. But I can't remember the details of the argument.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Dead peoples health care is cheap. Sure there is a three to six month end of life cost but you save decades of cost of expensive medications and treatments. While I'm being a bit crude in presentation this is largely the argument. Seems to me though that there are other costs besides just health care being left out of the equation.
Yes, this was it! Thank you for the reminder.
And yes, I think preventative care may still be a good thing to do for a host of other reasons, but it's just not the silver bullet in terms of cost control that it intuitively seems like it would be.
Was reading this article on the post-COVID future of air travel by James Fallows in The Atlantic and was wondering something:
For those who think the shutdown has been imposed on us by government, how do you explain the struggles of the airline industry? For the entirety of the pandemic, flights have continued to operate, and as far as I know, any restrictions that have been put in place regarding social distancing, flight capacity, etc. have come from the airlines themselves, not government. And yet, as with so many other industries, volume has fallen off a cliff:
For those who think the shutdown has been imposed on us by government, how do you explain the struggles of the airline industry? For the entirety of the pandemic, flights have continued to operate, and as far as I know, any restrictions that have been put in place regarding social distancing, flight capacity, etc. have come from the airlines themselves, not government. And yet, as with so many other industries, volume has fallen off a cliff:
If most people aren't flying, it's not because they're being prevented from doing so. The most likely explanation is that they're afraid of the virus. And if that's the case with airlines, wouldn't it also follow that it might be true of other industries as well? And that if restrictions are lifted on those industries, their volume won't increase appreciably from what it's been with lockdowns in place?
I think I disagree - but acknowledge my limitations here - and that studies exist that suggest the contrary.
But, over time, preventative measures become a commodity. Take the flu shot, for example. Many companies/insurance companies will provide a free flu shot. They don't do that out of the goodness of their own hearts - they do that because it is financially worthwhile. It is cheaper to provide 1M flu shots, than it is to treat the extra 10,000 people who would have otherwise gotten the flu.
And, this obviously ignores the bump in economic productivity from having a healthy society - making the costs an even smaller percentage of GDP.
You think you're the only one acknowledging your limitations? Listen, pal, my limitations are way more acknowledged than yours!
Seriously, your example makes a lot of sense, and I'm definitely in favor of free flu shots. But do moves like that actually bend the curve? I can't say, and since neither of us knows enough about the subject to really delve into it (plus it's somewhat off-topic), I'll just leave it there. But I do hope it's true, or if it's not currently, we find a way to make it true eventually.
You cant figure out how governments shutdown and stay at home orders are affecting travel?
Someone wrote a book about it!
Phillip Longman? His other book Empty Cradle:How Falling Birthrates are Threatening Posperity and What to do Abot it.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Or so:
Veterans across the nation are satisfied with the care they receive at the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), according to the Our Care 2019 Report Evaluating Veterans Health Care survey released by the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States (VFW).
The survey, which asked Veterans about their experience with VA health care since the MISSION Act was implemented, found that more than 80% were satisfied with their VA health care. Nearly 75% of Veteran respondents reported improvements at their local VA, and more than 90% would recommend VA care to fellow Veterans. The survey also revealed while most Veterans still prefer to receive care from the VA, Veterans using community care have fewer billing issues and a positive opinion of the MISSION Act urgent care benefits.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'd give VA care about a B- grade. The doctors are decent, but not top tier. Wait times can get out of hand. Way too much burocracy at the hospitals.
On the plus side they allow you to seek private providers which was a step in the right direction.
I typically choose to use my own insurance at a place of my choice instead of the VA even though the VA is a cheaper option.
On the plus side they allow you to seek private providers which was a step in the right direction.
I typically choose to use my own insurance at a place of my choice instead of the VA even though the VA is a cheaper option.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Correct, same as the argument that smoking costs $N millions of health care dollars per year is wrong. Who costs more in health care, the 50-year old smoker or the 50-year old non-smoker? The smoker, of course. Who costs more in health care, the 80-year old smoker or the 80-year old non-smoker? The non-smoker, because the smoker died 10 years ago.
Last edited by a moderator:
supermike80
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
It stands to reason that as the cure unveils itself that opinions are going to change. For example, mine has definitely changed. I voted "no" initially assuming that the guidelines would be followed properly (even a pipedream then...but that's what was on paper). Today? I'd absolutely switch my vote to "yes"....the cure does seem like it's going to end up worse than the disease. A majority of states can't say they are following the guidelines and are opening up accordingly.
supermike80
Footballguy
See what happens when you trust your eyes and your common sense and not some poll? Wisconsin, the drive in in New York, beaches.
Stop letting others think for you..use your own brains.
Sorry if honda.
But this was a little too on the nose.
Study Finds Most Restaurants Fail Within First Year Of It Becoming Illegal To Go To Them
I don't own a restaurant but have many friends who do. This was shared by one of them. Who by the way has been VERY careful with re-opening. I'm NOT saying we have to be wide open. I'm NOT saying we have to stay in total lockdown. I think the answer is somewhere in between in how we re-open properly and manage the risks. Of course, it's all in how one defines "properly". I don't know those exact answers. But what I do know for certain is there's a limit to how long restaurants (or any business) can operate with drastically reduced, or no, sales. Hang in there.
But this was a little too on the nose.
Study Finds Most Restaurants Fail Within First Year Of It Becoming Illegal To Go To Them
I don't own a restaurant but have many friends who do. This was shared by one of them. Who by the way has been VERY careful with re-opening. I'm NOT saying we have to be wide open. I'm NOT saying we have to stay in total lockdown. I think the answer is somewhere in between in how we re-open properly and manage the risks. Of course, it's all in how one defines "properly". I don't know those exact answers. But what I do know for certain is there's a limit to how long restaurants (or any business) can operate with drastically reduced, or no, sales. Hang in there.
timschochet
Footballguy
So long as the infection rate doesn’t surge then by all means reopen. But what if it does?
The medical experts gave us the answer: we can reopen safely if we have sufficient testing and contact tracing in place. We’ve chosen, for the most part, to ignore that answer and start reopening anyhow. I hope for the best, but I’m very concerned about ignoring the doctors.
Last edited by a moderator:
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The tipping point will be if hospitals start to become overrun again. Would issue new stay-at-home orders? What happens if that becomes necessary but states like WI have had the orders deemed unlawful? Other states are also facing lawsuits (CA, MI). Michigan police are refusing to enforce orders. What other recourse will they have if we get to overwhelming numbers again?
Have you flown since March? If not, what specifically has prevented you from doing so? I'm not aware of any stay-at-home orders that prohibit people from booking plane tickets.
belljr
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that's accurate from what I understand
and people want this for everyone in the nation ? about 9-10 million veterans in that system ... increase it to 300+ million and imagine the complete disaster for health care
Govt cannot do things better than private industry can - they just can't with rare rare exceptions
Amused to Death
Footballguy
44 million people use Medicare. It has very high satisfaction. Not sure what the difference is in the 2 agencies, but people love their Medicare.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I understand why people want things open but I don't get the refusal to wear masks. I don't mind listening to a good government conspiracy theory, but if wearing masks was some big grand scheme what is the end game for the government? Are they in the pocket of "Big Mask"?
No, I have to go to work everyday. But it's beyond naive to pretend Governor's STAY AT HOME orders don't affect travel.
Stay at home orders won't prevent me booking trips to Disneyland even though Disneyland is closed? What planet do you live on?
moleculo
Footballguy
government does lots of things better than private industry, particularly where there should be no profit motive. There are plenty of tihngs we trust for the government to do that works out quite well: military, space exploration, education (both primpary and secondary), law enforcement, fire safety, national and state parks, to name a few.
Could health care be moved from the "for profit" model to the "for the benefit of all citizens" model? Why would that be such a huge stretch?
If you want a constitutional basis, it's in the preamble: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
supermike80
Footballguy
Agreed. I think masks are cool. Not sure why people are being difficult about this one
TLEF316
Footballguy
If you give idiots an inch, they're going to take a mile. As a result, you have to plan with the dumbest (or "most freedom loving") people in mind. The second you re-open, there are going to be some jackasses that hold 200 person "freedom" BBQ's, pack bars and churches, ignore social distancing protocols, Etc.
It sucks, but if this past 2 months has affirmed anything for me, its that a big percentage of the population are complete and total morons. Every time I go to the grocery store, at least 25% of the people are ignoring the giant orange arrows on the floor (and the signs that are posted literally EVERYWHERE) and walking the wrong way down the one-way aisles.
These are the people we have to account for when we're planning how to re-open. And they're the reason I have almost no doubt that we will be fully locked down again at some point this fall (barring a working cure and/or vaccine)
It sucks, but if this past 2 months has affirmed anything for me, its that a big percentage of the population are complete and total morons. Every time I go to the grocery store, at least 25% of the people are ignoring the giant orange arrows on the floor (and the signs that are posted literally EVERYWHERE) and walking the wrong way down the one-way aisles.
These are the people we have to account for when we're planning how to re-open. And they're the reason I have almost no doubt that we will be fully locked down again at some point this fall (barring a working cure and/or vaccine)
Link to where we were ever fully locked down? 60%+ of the stores never closed. That's the absurdity of the whole thing. You pointed it out yourself, a certain percentage of the people don't follow guidelines in the grocery store, yet you think keeping dry cleaners closed is the tipping point?
TLEF316
Footballguy
By "fully locked" down I essentially mean back to where we were a couple of weeks ago. (no golf, no parks, no beaches) But yeah, you're 100% right. The definition of "essential" which allowed businesses like dry cleaners to stay open didn't help the situation.
We are smart enough to open restaurants, bars and dry cleaners with social distancing built in. We should police larger gatherings in parks or beaches. "Locked down" or "stay at home" is dumb.
TLEF316
Footballguy
People in grocery stores don't know what arrows mean. And look at the video from Wisconsin this past weekend.
"We" are clearly NOT smart enough. You and I might be, but we as a society are not. Its going to be like when the lifeguard blows the whistle to end "adult swim" at the community pool. All the mouth breathers are going to do running cannonballs and immediately start up a rousing game of sharks and minnows the second they're allowed back into Applebees for Happy Hour.
I WISH this wasn't the case, but it is. I sure has hell dont want to be locked down (especially as someone with very limited risk, being young and healthy) but I just fear that the middle ground will just make people think they can do whatever they want.
Last edited by a moderator:
I keep hearing about how The People are just itching to resume a normal life, and that once the heavy hand of government is lifted they will rush out to the restaurants, bars, tattoo parlors and bowling alleys. But apparently we are all being tyrannized by Big Suggestion.No, I have to go to work everyday. But it's beyond naive to pretend Governor's STAY AT HOME orders don't affect travel.
Stay at home orders won't prevent me booking trips to Disneyland even though Disneyland is closed? What planet do you live on?
There are plenty of other places to go beside DIsneyland. You could go visit relatives. You could go fly fishing in Montana. You could go to one of the places where the beaches are open and hang out. There are no laws or regulations preventing this. You won't be arrested. No airline will refuse to sell you a ticket. Yet somehow you and 92% of the other people who were traveling regularly before this all started are not doing those things. Occam's Razor suggests it is because people are still terrified of the virus. But I have to admit, I hadn't considered the possibility that it's because your governor gave you a stern look and you were cowed into submission.
supermike80
Footballguy
You cant really be hanging on this can you? People in Michigan aren't allowed to LEAVE THEIR HOMES unless for groceries and essential functions. There is no flying.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't know what's allowed or not, but this doesn't seem correct given all the protests I am seeing and all the people I am seeing coming here from Michigan. There's a disconnect up there somewhere. Not everyone is getting the same memo you are.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/s/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}