-OZ-
Footballguy
Lol. Ok then. Pulling Barry on short yardage was like pulling Brady on field goal attempts.
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Team Sport GOAT's - who is the best? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ghost Rider
- Start date
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It's kind of funny that despite decades of so many players artificially putting up huge numbers, the consensus GOAT in baseball is still a pudgy guy who was known for chugging beers and eating hot dogs.
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zamboni
Footballguy
They proved that in 1990, when Gretzky had already moved on to LA and the Messier-led team with many of the core left intact, plus a bunch of new young guys, won the Cup.
Foosball God
Foos
dgreen
Footballguy
I always felt like the Barry Sanders short yardage criticism was unfair. Early in his career, he had success. He had 11 1-yard TDs in his first four seasons, which was tied for 7th during that time span. Utilizing a goal-line RB just never sat right with me.
Each pretty much negates the other - right?
If the idea is "who is the greatest - by the greatest margin" - then the difference between Woods/Nicklaus would be close to negligible in your post.
Todem
Footballguy
Michael with The "Great One" right there.
Brady? Come on.
The Babe was great.....for his time. I could not see that in the modern day era. Forget even today. I am talking 70’s, 80’s and 90’s baseball. But he was simply incredible back in “his” time. No question the most dominate of his era.
Michael and Wayne dominate today even more than in their era. Pure dominance.
Brady would be a tuna fish sandwich if he played in the 80’s and 90’s. Pure product of the rules and system. Period. I can name several QB's are simply better football players, better passers...just simply better.
Brady? Come on.
The Babe was great.....for his time. I could not see that in the modern day era. Forget even today. I am talking 70’s, 80’s and 90’s baseball. But he was simply incredible back in “his” time. No question the most dominate of his era.
Michael and Wayne dominate today even more than in their era. Pure dominance.
Brady would be a tuna fish sandwich if he played in the 80’s and 90’s. Pure product of the rules and system. Period. I can name several QB's are simply better football players, better passers...just simply better.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
It’s impossible to compare across era IMO. Ruth dominated his era more than the other three by a wide margin.
Brady as the GOAT QB is quite debatable. Not too many people think Jerry Rice has peers. And I don’t think of Jerry as the NFL GOAT. Brady as the GOAT NFL player because....rings? It’s the best marriage in league history. I think 12 is #4 on this list.
Between the Great One and MJ, it’s 99 by a pretty good margin over 23.
Ruth
Gretzky
Jordan
Brady
Brady as the GOAT QB is quite debatable. Not too many people think Jerry Rice has peers. And I don’t think of Jerry as the NFL GOAT. Brady as the GOAT NFL player because....rings? It’s the best marriage in league history. I think 12 is #4 on this list.
Between the Great One and MJ, it’s 99 by a pretty good margin over 23.
Ruth
Gretzky
Jordan
Brady
-OZ-
Footballguy
Quick - how many TDs did Schlesinger run for while Barry was on the Lions?yep.
totally equal.
great point!
I think I remember Barry being pulled on the GL for Cory once. But if that's the criteria you're using against Barry, have at it.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Imagine what he would do with a diet that didn't consist of 8 hot dogs and a gallon of beer.
Foosball God
Foos
Disagree here. Not sure how Gretzky didn't dominate his era just as much if not more.
Foosball God
Foos
He would have been miserable so he probably would have sucked. Women, beer, and hot dogs were his power.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Was he an all star defenseman or Vezina trophy winner for 5-6 years before he became the best center of all time? Did he have more assists / points than entire teams?
I’m being facetious, but serous Q for you.
How did 1980s NHL scoring compare to the Howe era? Or today’s game? Honest Q, IDK, but it seems like it was significantly higher at his peak. Maybe I’m wrong.
The General
Footballguy
Jordan getting more votes than Ruth is a travistshamockery.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Name a record Jordan holds
In fact name a statistic where he's top 3 all time, single season or career.
In fact name a statistic where he's top 3 all time, single season or career.
The General
Footballguy
Ruth hit 15 HR's in 41 World Series games, hit .330 in those games.
He also pitched 29 scoreless innings
Gretz only one who comes close to this level of domination.
He also pitched 29 scoreless innings
Gretz only one who comes close to this level of domination.
belljr
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
NHL league goal average by year
wonder if there are hockey equivalents to SABRheads in baseball who can interpolate Gretzky’s adjusted dominance relative to the increase in scoring during his early to peak years?
otb_lifer
Footballguy
it's ridiculous ... imagine Sandy Koufax giving up pitching after four years then turning into Hank Aaron.Ruth hit 15 HR's in 41 World Series games, hit .330 in those games.
He also pitched 29 scoreless innings
Gretz only one who comes close to this level of domination.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Imagine Ken Dryden turning into Guy LaFleurit's ridiculous ... imagine Sandy Koufax giving up pitching after four years then turning into Hank Aaron.
Foosball God
Foos
He wasn't a multi-position player as you know, but you talked about dominating his era, not dominating someone else's era.
In Gretzky's heyday, Fantasy leagues had to divide him into two players because he was so dominate. You either drafted Gretzky assists or Gretzky goals. You were not allowed to get both. AND they were usually both drafted as first round picks. Amazing.
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otb_lifer
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
I didn't bring him up, but he's definitely in the convo. Recent era I'm probably going LT or Jerry Rice. But it's really hard to compare across positions in football.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
otb_lifer
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
A little bit of prejudice here, but in a team game, I can never put a football player over a basketball player or hockey. Each player just doesn't have the same level of impact, they're much more reliant on others.
Baseball you can, but the era matters. Babe was the best, for reasons already stated.
Gretzky simply was the GOAT of any team sport. Probably any major sport, team or individual.
Baseball you can, but the era matters. Babe was the best, for reasons already stated.
Gretzky simply was the GOAT of any team sport. Probably any major sport, team or individual.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Most NBA Finals MVP awards with 6. (Note: No one else has more than 3)
Most points per game all-time, he is number 1.
The General
Footballguy
Having your own adjective is way better than a nickname.
Cant believe these poll results. Crazy talk!
dgreen
Footballguy
Since I'm a Caps fan, I've compared Ovechkin's goal accomplishments vs Gretzky's based on league averages. Taking their goals/game as a percentage of league average goals/game, Ovechkin had the advantage in seasons 1-4, Gretzky took the lead in seasons 5-9 (season 9 basically being a tie), and now Ovechkin back in the lead, and growing since he hasn't slowed down yet, in seasons 10-15. My guess is he doesn't pass Gretzky for most goals all-time (COVID not helping his chances), but he has a shot. And that would be remarkable given the way the game has changed.
Of course, that's just one aspect of the game. I'm not arguing Ovechkin is greater than Gretzky. That would be dumb. But, an argument can be made that Ovechkin's the better goal scorer.
wlwiles
Footballguy
If you ask 100 sports fans who the top player is in each of the 4 big sports, you’ll hear Ruth/Aaron/Gehrig/Mantle/Bonds/Other, Jordan/Lebron/Kobe/Wilt/other, Brady/Montana/Rice/Sanders/Unitas/other, and Gretzky. There is no case that can be made at all for any hockey player except him. Gretzky is the GOAT without question
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Interesting.
That said, there’s probably no one who ever came remotely close in the assists department, right?
dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, I'd guess nobody's close in assists even when adjusting for era. And it's possible there are other players that have come close in the goal scoring department when accounting for era, but I only compared Ovechkin and Gretzky.
TheWinz
Footballguy
When Ruth retired, he had more homers than the next 2 combined. And say all you want about his era, but he still ranks 10th all-time in batting average, even with a few seasons at the end where he could barely walk. Last fun fact - he has more triples than any active player, and even more than all-time hit leader Pete Rose, who has 1383 more hits.
All that said, I still voted Gretzky, even though I hate hockey.
All that said, I still voted Gretzky, even though I hate hockey.
The General
Footballguy
Ruth played 90 years ago and we are still talking about him in this fashion. 10's of thousands of players have followed him.
It was the only real sport for 40 years of that that people played.
He should be crushing the field here.
It was the only real sport for 40 years of that that people played.
He should be crushing the field here.
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fissure man
Footballguy
Jordan would demolish his own numbers if he played in today’s cringy era of “basketball”. Without a doubt Lebron James would soil himself on the court.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
the other factor is that baseball was the only pro game worth a #### at that time ... boxing and horseracing were behind it as #2 and #3 ... no NBA, NFL was filled with meat Packers (literally).
so the overwhelming majority of the land's best athletes all gravitated to baseball ... the cream of the crop.
there's a reason why so many great names come outta that era ...
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Unlikely but my base knowledge of hockey lags the other three North American Team Sports. Just back of the napkin / spitballing, Gretzky broke all of Howe’s career records. As great as Mr Hockey was - and Gretzky was always so classy and deferential to his hero - he never had a 50 goal season. Tough guy and excelled on both ends but it’s not close, at all. Rocket, Hull, LaFleur, Mario, bunch of guys I’m forgetting - he dwarfs them.dgreen said:
It’s almost Ruthian.
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otb_lifer
Footballguy
... Hank Aaron never hit more than 45 HRs in a season - the Gordie Howe of baseball.
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