Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Ghost Rider

Team Sport GOAT's - who is the best?

Which of these choices is the GOAT in his sport by the widest margin?  

100 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Since I'm a Caps fan, I've compared Ovechkin's goal accomplishments vs Gretzky's based on league averages. Taking their goals/game as a percentage of league average goals/game, Ovechkin had the advantage in seasons 1-4, Gretzky took the lead in seasons 5-9 (season 9 basically being a tie), and now Ovechkin back in the lead, and growing since he hasn't slowed down yet, in seasons 10-15. My guess is he doesn't pass Gretzky for most goals all-time (COVID not helping his chances), but he has a shot. And that would be remarkable given the way the game has changed.

Of course, that's just one aspect of the game. I'm not arguing Ovechkin is greater than Gretzky. That would be dumb. But, an argument can be made that Ovechkin's the better goal scorer.

It's easy when 8 sits in the same spot and nobody thinks to put somebody on him. :pokey:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, otb_lifer said:

... Hank Aaron never hit more than 45 HRs in a season - the Gordie Howe of baseball. 

 

47

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BobbyLayne said:

47

:coffee:

point stands that he never hit that magic 50 mark - so there ya go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, The General said:

Ruth played 90 years ago and we are still talking about him in this fashion. 10's of thousands of players have followed him.

It was the only real sport for 40 years of that that people played.

He should be crushing the field here.

But the poll is about closest to #2 of the sport.  Ruth was the best by a wide margin in his era but that has changed.  There are talk of other players being the best in baseball of all time.  It may not be true but there are discussions and people on both sides to have that discussion.  There really isn't another player to discuss when comparing to Gretzky and hockey. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tom Servo said:

It's easy when 8 sits in the same spot and nobody thinks to put somebody on him. :pokey:

 

I do love watching the Caps on a PP against teams that don't overplay Ovechkin. So stupid.

I want hockey back! Right about now, the Caps should be blowing a first round 3-1 lead.

  • Laughing 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Capella said:

You think they were throwing a 101 from the left side with a wipeout slider like some of these guys are? No chance. I’m sure they threw hard but there weren’t guns then to measure it. 

oh they threw some heat, i assure you ... they also pitched from a 15-20 inch mound, depending on the stadium ... they reduced it to 10" after the Gibby/McLain domination of '68. 

ya know how much more of an advantage that gives a pitcher?

enough that they had to lower it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Walter Johnson vs Babe Ruth

 

Quote

In 107 at bats, Babe hit .280 with 8 doubles, 2 triples and 7 home runs. He walked 19 times giving Babe an on base percentage of .389, and Ole Walter punched him out 25 times. Not bad, but let’s take a closer look. Babe hit .342 lifetime but Johnson held him 62 points under his lifetime mark. In his career, his home run to at bat ratio was 1 homer in every 11.76 at bats; against Johnson he hit a homer in every 15.29 at bats. Babe whiffed 1 in every 6.43 at bats but when he faced the Big Train, he went down swinging once every 4.28 at bats. Babe’s numbers against Johnson were pretty damn good however, in essence, the Big Train reduced the Sultan of Swat to a mere mortal.

However, there is a flip side. Throughout Johnson’s career, opponents hit .222 against him. He surrendered a total of, ready for this, 97 home runs. THAT’S IT!! That translates to a home run every 227.2 batters! The on base percentage of opposing batters throughout Johnson’s career was .281. So, if you consider that Babe took him deep once every 15.29 at bats and hit him at a .280 clip and got on base 39% of the time then one could conclude that Babe reduced the great Big Train Walter Johnson to a mere mortal as well.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

oh they threw some heat, i assure you ... they also pitched from a 15-20 inch mound, depending on the stadium ... they reduced it to 10" after the Gibby/McLain domination of '68. 

ya know how much more of an advantage that gives a pitcher?

enough that they had to lower it.  

How can you assure me? You weren’t around for Walter Johnson. I’m sure he was winging it but 92 back then probably seemed like 100 now. 

Edited by Capella

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Capella said:

How can you assure me? You weren’t around for Walter Johnson. I’m sure he was winging it but 92 back then probably seemed like 100 now. 

the one great thing about baseball is that the math/physics of the game really never changed ...

it's still 90' from each base, 60'6" from mound to plate ... and tape measure homers and pitch speed never really deviated, either. 

a fireballer in 1910 most certainly could hit 100+ ... why not?  if your only argument is "NO GUN RECORD, FAIL!" well ...

:unsure:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Capella said:

How can you assure me? You weren’t around for Walter Johnson. I’m sure he was winging it but 92 back then probably seemed like 100 now. 

it wouldn't surprise me if Bob Feller topped 100. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, otb_lifer said:

the one great thing about baseball is that the math/physics of the game really never changed ...

it's still 90' from each base, 60'6" from mound to plate ... and tape measure homers and pitch speed never really deviated, either. 

a fireballer in 1910 most certainly could hit 100+ ... why not?  if your only argument is "NO GUN RECORD, FAIL!" well ...

:unsure:

That’s not my argument. It’s that guys are stronger now. How many were breaking 100 in 1986? I believe 13 out of the 15 fastest pitches registered have been since 2000. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Babe last played in 1934.....19 friggin' 34.....

How can you honestly compare any modern day athlete to him? 

The world, league, competition, etc was all so different then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Capella said:

That’s not my argument. It’s that guys are stronger now. How many were breaking 100 in 1986? I believe 13 out of the 15 fastest pitches registered have been since 2000. 

if all it were about was strength and speed, then the game would look very different than what history has shown. 

what good is 100+ if ya can't get batters out?

what good is strength if ya can't hit a curveball?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are bored, check out cricket's Don Bradman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Jordan is first all time in

Career points - no

Career mvps - no

Career titles - no

Career marketing impact - yes

 

Tied for 10th in rings...

1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

A little bit of prejudice here, but in a team game, I can never put a football player over a basketball player or hockey. Each player just doesn't have the same level of impact, they're much more reliant on others. 

Baseball you can, but the era matters. Babe was the best, for reasons already stated. 

Gretzky simply was the GOAT of any team sport. Probably any major sport, team or individual. 

I'll add a Pele' in here if we are expanding the field.  :excited:

But for this poll I agree Gretzky is the clear answer.  The Great One for a reason and hard to make a case against.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Tolstoy said:

it wouldn't surprise me if Bob Feller topped 100. 

Feller did top 100.  I had a chance to sit down with him for 5 minutes back in 1992, after I played a charity softball game with him.  He was in his mid 70's, but he was still very competitive.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, B Maverick said:

 

I'll add a Pele' in here if we are expanding the field.  :excited:

But for this poll I agree Gretzky is the clear answer.  The Great One for a reason and hard to make a case against.

 

Pele might be the most important athlete ever, world wide. But the margin of greatness of play between him and Diego (from what I've heard, I never watched Pele and am not a futbol fanatic) isn't a much as Gretzky to Howe (and I'm a red wings fan from birth). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

 

Pele might be the most important athlete ever, world wide. But the margin of greatness of play between him and Diego (from what I've heard, I never watched Pele and am not a futbol fanatic) isn't a much as Gretzky to Howe (and I'm a red wings fan from birth). 

And honestly, Messi is right there too. Pele probably still the best, but not more obviously than Gretzky is. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

Unlikely but my base knowledge of hockey lags the other three North American Team Sports. Just back of the napkin / spitballing, Gretzky broke all of Howe’s career records. As great as Mr Hockey was - and Gretzky was always so classy and deferential to his hero - he never had a 50 goal season. Tough guy and excelled on both ends but it’s not close, at all. Rocket, Hull, LaFleur, Mario, bunch of guys I’m forgetting - he dwarfs them.

It’s almost Ruthian.

Mario trailed Ovechkin and Gretzky the first 8 seasons in this metric (cumulative player goals per game/cumulative league goals per team per game) but then beats them the rest of his career by a pretty good margin. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had Gretzky picked out before I even saw the poll itself.

How are there three pages of discussion here?

  • Thanks 1
  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ChiefD said:

Patrick Mahomes is better than Brady. He may never win the number of Super Bowls, but he is the best I've ever seen. Heck, I'd put Peyton Manning above Brady.

🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Capella said:

That’s not my argument. It’s that guys are stronger now. How many were breaking 100 in 1986? I believe 13 out of the 15 fastest pitches registered have been since 2000. 

Bob Feller was tossing it near 100 mph in 1938

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Capella said:

That’s not my argument. It’s that guys are stronger now. How many were breaking 100 in 1986? I believe 13 out of the 15 fastest pitches registered have been since 2000. 

Essentially, that's what you're saying with the bolded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Ruth. He created modern sports, end of story.

but that isn't what the poll is asking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gally said:

but that isn't what the poll is asking.

Quote

Seems like these four are mentioned the most in their respective sports nowadays as the GOAT, but which one is the most obvious GOAT in their sport?

Ok, you're right, then it's Gretzky.

However considering the HR record was like 19 (?) when Ruth came on maybe it's still Ruth. But as stated, Gretzky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Ruth. He created modern sports, end of story.

1934 is modern sports?

:confused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

1934 is modern sports?

:confused:

Yes? Baseball quickly became the first major league sport during and because of Ruth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Yes? Baseball quickly became the first major league sport during and because of Ruth.

First doesn't equate to modern, imo. 

Wasn't it something like 1947 before African Americans could even play baseball?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

First doesn't equate to modern, imo. 

Wasn't it something like 1947 before African Americans could even play baseball?

Major League baseball, yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, LoadLetterPaper said:

Please watch this and tell me how Gretzky was impressive at all.  Goalies didn't even know how to skate when he played. Look at the equipment they are wearing. What a joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6WOzWO9v2A

Is it your contention that Gretzky was not impressive at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Is it your contention that Gretzky was not impressive at all?

That video does show the vast difference in goalies then and now. But, it also shows some great plays by Gretzky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

First doesn't equate to modern, imo. 

Wasn't it something like 1947 before African Americans could even play baseball?

Yes, of course, and it was a much smaller league as well. Same issues with training and that kind of thing. But we'll just get into continued recency sliding like the argument above about goalies with Gretzky, then we can talk Jordan and James, and Brady getting his orb of cleanliness surrounding him in the pocket.

Just look at the records being eclipsed by each before they came in. Brady doesn't even own most records, beyond the Super Bowls and then I'd say let's talk Belichick.

The guy eclipsed the prior home run record by 2.4 times. There's nothing like that ever with anyone.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Why does it talk about team sports and then have basketball there? With that said, went Jordan since I don't watch Hockey.

Edited by huthut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LoadLetterPaper said:

Gretzy rating? I'd give him a 5 easy.

:fishing:

... and rancid bait, at that. 

those who bite are on their own. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, LoadLetterPaper said:

Please watch this and tell me how Gretzky was impressive at all.  Goalies didn't even know how to skate when he played. Look at the equipment they are wearing. What a joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6WOzWO9v2A

Gretzky was so much better of reading the goalies, defense, bounces, etc and anticipating where the puck would be that he made things look very easy at times.  He was that much better than any other player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing Ruth has going for him is you can't accuse him of PEDs. 

Jordan most likely used them (they were very prevalent in sports around 1990 when Jordan started putting on muscle) and I wouldn't be surpised if Brady did too (Peyton Manning got caught with them and he said that his wife ordered them, and if he did them, then I guarntee Brady did too)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, dgreen said:

That video does show the vast difference in goalies then and now. But, it also shows some great plays by Gretzky.

I get the argument that goaltending is better now overall than it used to be, but the 80's gave us Roy (who played for most of 99's career) and the 90's gave us Brodeur and Hasek, and it goes without saying that there hasn't been a goalie since who comes to the greatness of any of those three.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Thorpe said:

One thing Ruth has going for him is you can't accuse him of PEDs. 

Jordan most likely used them (they were very prevalent in sports around 1990 when Jordan started putting on muscle) and I wouldn't be surpised if Brady did too (Peyton Manning got caught with them and he said that his wife ordered them, and if he did them, then I guarntee Brady did too)

Compared to Ruth's days every athlete does something now to enhance performance that were never thought about back then.  Lifting weights, nutrition, stretching, etc.  All of those things are vast improvements over Ruth's days regardless of any PED usage.  I might even say those as a whole did more for enhancing performance over the olden days than what actual PED's on top of it. 

 

But, again that isn't what the poll is asking about.

Edited by Gally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, -OZ- said:

Pele might be the most important athlete ever, world wide. But the margin of greatness of play between him and Diego (from what I've heard, I never watched Pele and am not a futbol fanatic) isn't a much as Gretzky to Howe (and I'm a red wings fan from birth). 

Maradona was a great talent.  I do not put him in the same class as Pele who transformed a team at 16 and won 3 World Cups.  Team game for sure but was the catalyst for it all.  I also would have to ask if Maradona did not have the "Hand Of God",  does he win that game let alone the WC?  Most casual fans dont talk about the greatness of his 2nd goal in that game for sure, but again, if he gets called for handball on the first, does the 2nd happen and is he as well known? Not a hill I'd die on, but some doubts that question how close it really is.

18 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

And honestly, Messi is right there too. Pele probably still the best, but not more obviously than Gretzky is. 

And Messi and Ronaldo are behind Pele for me.  

 

I am not disputing Gretzky as the clear choice here.  Just tossing another name in that to me would rival him and be ahead of Ruth whos above Jordan then Brady.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Capella said:

That’s not my argument. It’s that guys are stronger now. How many were breaking 100 in 1986? I believe 13 out of the 15 fastest pitches registered have been since 2000. 

Just to play along Ill just say that being very strong doesn't always translate so well to throwers of the ball. Ive never seen a totally jacked pitcher or quarterback who could throw it harder/faster than say a noodle (looking) arm of Aaron Rogers. 

 

Sorry for mixing in football guys but baseball isn't my sport. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, -OZ- said:

 

Pele might be the most important athlete ever, world wide. But the margin of greatness of play between him and Diego (from what I've heard, I never watched Pele and am not a futbol fanatic) isn't a much as Gretzky to Howe (and I'm a red wings fan from birth). 

 

Jackie Robinson and there isn't a close second. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, fissure man said:

 

Jackie Robinson and there isn't a close second. 

i'm not a fan, but ... Ali certainly could be 1st over Pele. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, -OZ- said:

 

Pele might be the most important athlete ever, world wide. But the margin of greatness of play between him and Diego (from what I've heard, I never watched Pele and am not a futbol fanatic) isn't a much as Gretzky to Howe (and I'm a red wings fan from birth). 

 

7 minutes ago, fissure man said:

 

Jackie Robinson and there isn't a close second. 

 

6 minutes ago, otb_lifer said:

i'm not a fan, but ... Ali certainly could be  1st 2nd over Pele. 

 

I''ll  let you guys discuss futbol as I know nothing. As for Ali, I think Ali was a giant Richard for how he treated his fellow man and have always contended that if you let Tyson wail on Ali like Frasier did he wouldn't have won any of those fights. He probably wouldn't have survived honestly. 

 

I don't hold Ali in very high regard. Hes not on the top of any list other than being a jerk. 

Edited by fissure man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, fissure man said:

 

 

 

I think Ali was a giant Richard for how he treated his fellow man and have always contended that if you let Tyson wail on Ali like Frasier did he wouldn't have won any of those fights. He probably wouldn't have survived honestly. 

agree, see my post about Ali in the "coolest athlete" thread - as i said, not a fan at all

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, fissure man said:

 

Jackie Robinson and there isn't a close second. 

In the US for sure. 

World wide? I really don't know.

1 hour ago, otb_lifer said:

i'm not a fan, but ... Ali certainly could be 1st over Pele. 

Team boxing?

Ok, you're just referring to the most important athlete comment. I'll disagree with Ali being as important as Pele or Jackie. 

Edited by -OZ-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.