TheWinz
Footballguy
Engleberg, lemme put this in terms even you can understand...
You are Cal Ripken
Kelly Leak is Joe DiMaggio
Amanda Whurlitzer is Johnny Vander Meer
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Will Never Be Broken - EVER (With Pole) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter otb_lifer
- Start date
You are Cal Ripken
Kelly Leak is Joe DiMaggio
Amanda Whurlitzer is Johnny Vander Meer
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
Who was it? I should recognize that name...
TheWinz
Footballguy
TheWinz
Footballguy
I bolded the most important word for you. Can you say the same for 3 straight nono's?
otb_lifer
Footballguy
i'm not mocking the record, just how some think it's actually "ZOMG YOU NEED TO PLAY A FULL GAME FOR LIKE A GAJILLION STRAIGHT SEASONS!!1!11+11!1!"
no.
half an inning.
donezo.
easily the most attainable by sheer existence/attrition.
hell, i included it because i consider it tougher than 56 straight, but ... say what ya want - Hoard was right in calling it a "participation" trophy.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
otb_lifer
Footballguy
nah.
we'll see someone make a push in our lifetime. i firmly believe that.
but pitchers are gonna need to start tossing complete games first before they can even consider three straight nono's.
TheWinz
Footballguy
Hell, an eccentric owner could do this for a stunt if he wanted. The players only prerequisite is not to die.
However, if a pitcher has a no hitter going he rarely gets taken out until he gives up a hit. It is more likely to get a complete game IF you have a no hitter in play.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
understood ... was just reiterating an earlier point that starters can't even go a full 9 any longer, so asking for three straight full games is task enough in today's game, let alone no hitters.
I fell into that trap as well. However, the actual pole question is which record is the "toughest to achieve". Consecutive game streak is the easiest to obtain even though I think it is the least likely to be broken. There is a distinction.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?
Nowhere, his manager just gave him a day off.
Nowhere, his manager just gave him a day off.
That would only matter if you are close to the record. Do you think someone with 300 consecutive games will ask the coach to put him in for a DH at bat with the flu or a broken leg so he can keep his streak going, and the coach would agree? No way, you still would have 14 years to go, and would not even be thinking about it.you don't need to play 9 innings to qualify ... hell, if ya had to play a full 9 innings 2,633 straight times then i'd rank it over Cy Young.
all ya gotta do is appear in a game (1/2 inning in the field, or one official at bat) to register as officially "played"
it's not as Herculian as most are allowing
Penguin
Footballguy
I've always thought that most of the pitching records will never be broken as the game has changed. Heck in there where times guys like Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson among others would pitch both games of a double header, and complete games at that. Wins, loses, games started, strikeouts, innings pitched, complete games, shutouts, walks, back to back no hitters (only 6 have thrown more than two in a career with one guy being in the 1880's.)
rockaction
Footballguy
Nobody is playing for perfect attendance anymore, that's the problem with the premises of the argument of those arguing against the three no-nos.
All it takes is a smokingly dominant sinker-ball pitcher and you've got your no nos; it's also within the long-term goal of the game provided one can stay within a pitch count.
Playing for perfect attendance actually undermines the goal of long-term performance; it'll never happen again. Ever. 162 is almost impossible these days.
All it takes is a smokingly dominant sinker-ball pitcher and you've got your no nos; it's also within the long-term goal of the game provided one can stay within a pitch count.
Playing for perfect attendance actually undermines the goal of long-term performance; it'll never happen again. Ever. 162 is almost impossible these days.
Penguin
Footballguy
And what odds would you assign to that happening?
ETA: My guess is somewhere between winning Powerball with one ticket after 10 rollovers and a perfect March Madness bracket
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TheWinz
Footballguy
Awesome. Another person to argue with.
This thread has been a great distraction. The question before us is... which record is the toughest to achieve? Of the 3 we are discussing..
- Is it tough to don/doff a uniform 2633 times? No
- Is it tough to get a hit in 57 straight games? Yes
- Is it tough to throw 3 straight no-hitters? Yes
More fun facts...
- In Johnny Vander Meer's first no-hitter, he faced DiMaggio. Vince, that is. Joe's older brother.
- His second no-hitter was also the first ever night game played at Ebbetts Field. The last batter he faced that night was Leo Durocher.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
point taken, but if some cat decided he wanted to give it a go, he could play top of the first, get credit - then go to the terlit or ice bath or trainer, etc.
it's a matter of will, not necessarily talent - though it will take talent to hang on for 16+ seasons, it's not the driving factor to establishing the record.
impossible because nobody has made it a goal, or impossible because it's an astonomically befuddling anomaly? (like 3 nono's) ... see below -
^ this is pretty much on point - Winz hammered out the statistical equivalents using other baseball metrics earlier ... one was that three nono's would be tougher than back to back perfect games. think about that ... yeah.
and speaking of Winz ...
Leo the Lip under the first ever artificial lighting ... that's damn near "The Natural" level lore - Vandy was a ####in' comet.Awesome. Another person to argue with.
This thread has been a great distraction. The question before us is... which record is the toughest to achieve? Of the 3 we are discussing..
- Is it tough to don/doff a uniform 2633 times? No
- Is it tough to get a hit in 57 straight games? Yes
- Is it tough to throw 3 straight no-hitters? Yes
More fun facts...
- In Johnny Vander Meer's first no-hitter, he faced DiMaggio. Vince, that is. Joe's older brother.
- His second no-hitter was also the first ever night game played at Ebbetts Field. The last batter he faced that night was Leo Durocher.
a comet that blazed thru the Brooklyn night leaving the greatest ever in season pitching feat as it's tail.
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Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
If that’s what you’re arguing then the tread and pole are flawed, it asks different thingsAwesome. Another person to argue with.
This thread has been a great distraction. The question before us is... which record is the toughest to achieve? Of the 3 we are discussing..
- Is it tough to don/doff a uniform 2633 times? No
- Is it tough to get a hit in 57 straight games? Yes
- Is it tough to throw 3 straight no-hitters? Yes
More fun facts...
- In Johnny Vander Meer's first no-hitter, he faced DiMaggio. Vince, that is. Joe's older brother.
- His second no-hitter was also the first ever night game played at Ebbetts Field. The last batter he faced that night was Leo Durocher.
throwing 3 no hitters is harder, more impressive, etc, however, based on the current state of baseball it is more probable it would happen than someone breaking Cals record
TheWinz
Footballguy
Who holds the record for consecutive games played, with 2632? Somebody
Who holds the record for consecutive no-hitters thrown, with 3? Nobody
At least you said 3 nono's is harder and more impressive. That's pretty much been my take this entire time. And since you mentioned the current state of baseball, would it also make sense to say 10 consecutive no-hitters is now more probable than Cal's streak? Why stop at 3?
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
I went with three straight no hitters.
I believe this to be the most difficult. I also don't think Ripken's record will ever be broken for all the reasons already stated. Of the three I believe the hitting streak to be the easiest to achieve and I would not be surprised if that record is never broken either.
All incredible achievements but three no hitters in a row is the most difficult to achieve.
I really miss baseball.
I believe this to be the most difficult. I also don't think Ripken's record will ever be broken for all the reasons already stated. Of the three I believe the hitting streak to be the easiest to achieve and I would not be surprised if that record is never broken either.
All incredible achievements but three no hitters in a row is the most difficult to achieve.
I really miss baseball.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
TheWinz
Footballguy
Exactly. Why stop there? Why not 10 straight perfect games, where the pitcher strikes out all 27 batters? After all, he would have a low pitch count for each game, right? Heck, a great pitcher could accomplish this feat in a few short months.
TheWinz
Footballguy
@otb_lifer
This thread has been so fun. Please start another one, perhaps in basketball or football?
ETA - my dog is sleeping with her tongue sticking way out
This thread has been so fun. Please start another one, perhaps in basketball or football?
ETA - my dog is sleeping with her tongue sticking way out
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otb_lifer
Footballguy
hmmmm.
this all started because my daughter was on Skype with her cousin while i was watching the Big Unit's perfect game ... my brother popped on and said Ripken's streak was the greatest of all-time (outside of Cy Young), and that it would easily win in an objective pole.
ETA: i included Joe D because the announcers said oddsmakers still have that as least probable to be broken.
and right now, with 120 votes in, it stands at:
56 Cal
51 Vandy
13 Joe D
Cal may win this, but it's not gonna be "easily"
with the virtual Kentuck Derby coming up on Saturday, i am getting inspiration for another pole ... stay tuned.
btw, BIG thanks for making this thread more enjoyable - solid work up in here, Winz!
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A agree with @Dan Lambskin, where the number does not matter much, because that played streak is so unlikely now with changes to play style that it would just be a tie. At least with the 3 nonos you get 30 attempts a year, as mentioned before, you can blow the games played streak for your entire career with one game. It is more likely that some 6'8" power pitcher who can throw 105 all game long with precision and a perfect change up and slider is born who can throw nonos regularly or something.
I have been spending way more thought on this than some hour long company wide presentation I need to do today, but some research points I have not got to:
How many non-pitchers in the super modern era (lets say starting in 1995 to give people a chance at ~ a 25 year career) have a career longer than 15 years, and what is the current longest played streak in baseball? I don't know the answer to this, I just have not found it and I need to work a bit before further dedicating my life to arguing on the internet.
This is a flawed argument. Because by definition, a record means nobody has done more. So nobody has played 2633 games, just like nobody hit in 57 games, and nobody threw 3 straight no hitters.
As I have said previously, I think there is no chance the consecutive games record will be broken because of the money in the game and the knowledge about days off helping performance. The culture is just not the same so I don't think there is any way it gets broken. However, the actual act is easier than the other two tasks. The hardest task to actually achieve is the 3 straight no hitters but every time someone gets one in a row, there is a chance for two in a row etc. It's not likely but people try for it each time they go out. Same with the hitting streak. It's unlikely to happen but people are striving for it.
So although I agree that 3 no-no's is much more difficult to achieve (pole question) I don't think the consecutive game streak will ever be broken...….minor distinction, but a distinction nonetheless.
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otb_lifer
Footballguy
kid starts the streak at 22 - he'd be 37 by the time it comes to fruition ... both Gehrig and Ripken slotted very dodgy "appearances" along the way to keep the streaks alive (playing half inning, etc) ... now, i'm not saying the kid is gonna be as talented as Gehrig (who is a top 10, idgaf what anyone thinks), or lucky enough to have a wee bit of nepotism (Ripken) ... but if a useful, utilitarian mensch set out, it's attainable.
and it would have to be a lunchpail kinda cat, because i will agree w/the points made about load management for the big ticket superstars ... nobody even remotely approaching Gehrig's talent will have a sbot ... and Ripken, while brilliant in spots, was nowhere near Lou.
it's there for the taking ... some player is gonna make it his flag to plant - and i think we'll see a run in our lifetimes.
Why stop at 2632 games? Why not go with 3581 games? This is a pointless statement. The idea is breaking a record however the pole itself is not asking which record will never be broken. It is asking which task is the toughest to achieve. The thread title leads to a contradiction in answering the pole question (It lead me to answer Ripken because I read the title and OP and then answered without really reading the pole question itself).
There is a distinction between hardest task to achieve and which record will never be broken. I have outlined that a few times in previous posts. Most of discussion regarding Ripken vs 3 no-no's are arguing different sides of this distinction so you will never convince the other to change.
The problem with that is the coaches will have to be on board from season 1 otherwise there is not chance. The best I could find was that Alcides Escobar held the longest active streak at 333 games in 2017. I know he has since been released, changed teams, and may not play again. So the current leader may be somewhere around 300 games but I have not found that information on the google. The fact that it is not readily available should be another feather in the cap of this never happening again. It's not really something anybody wants anymore. My guess is we don't see anybody break 1000 game streak again.
TheWinz
Footballguy
My whole point really has been which record deserves my admiration more. As you said, the game has changed, so Cal's streak may never be eclipsed. And yes, I have to agree, unless some owner wants to do a very long stunt. Hell, he could take a 20 yr old, suit him up for an appearance each game for 40 straight years, as long as he owns the team and the "player" doesn't die before he turns 60. He could easily double Cal's streak just by existing.
Anyways, we have beaten this horse pretty much to the ground. Time for another "pole".
otb_lifer
Footballguy
But that is not the current longest active streak. I know he missed games when he went to Baltimore (damn Orioles trying to protect Ripken's legacy)
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TheWinz
Footballguy
I have a good idea for a new poll, but I don't know how to create a poll. Last time I tried, I screwed it up badly Can someone start one?
Best baseball team over the last 50 years
Choices are 1970 Orioles, 1976 Reds, or 1998 Yankees.
There can never be an actual answer, but the discussion should be fun. And yes, I have my choice picked out already.
Best baseball team over the last 50 years
Choices are 1970 Orioles, 1976 Reds, or 1998 Yankees.
There can never be an actual answer, but the discussion should be fun. And yes, I have my choice picked out already.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I tend to agree with this. A few years ago, Scherzer had a run where in three consecutive starts he went: (1) complete game one-hitter, (2) complete game no-hitter, (3) took perfect game into the 6th inning. (He eventually pitched a second no-hitter later that year.)
He obviously fell short of Vander Meer's mark, but certainly possible for a pitcher to have a dominant run like that.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
see, i think it shows the opposite, inasmuch that it illustrates that even a pitcher in a tremendous groove still came up short ...
SO many things need to break right for it to happen, and Scherzer's run does not show that it could be done ... it shows, instead, just why it won't.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Talent is absolutely the driver. With analytics in play now you would have to be the statistically better player that never slumped for 16 years.
And thats if you could stay healthy.
The current leader is at 247 games.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
you're forgetting 1/2 inning in the field, or an at bat, is all it takes to register a "game"
plz refer to the rest of my post you quoted.
-OZ-
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I am not forgetting anything.otb_lifer said:
No manager is going to keep trotting a guy out there to protect a streak. So to rack up a bunch of these special appearances he would still have to be the statistically better matchup each time and not be slumping or need rest.
Spike
Footballguy
I would have to say the record for innings pitched in a season.
It is 680, back in 1879, by Will White.
Heck, the top 10 all had more than 620!
To top 680, even assuming a pitcher went 9 innings every game, the pitcher would have to start more than 75 games in that season to do so.
It is 680, back in 1879, by Will White.
Heck, the top 10 all had more than 620!
To top 680, even assuming a pitcher went 9 innings every game, the pitcher would have to start more than 75 games in that season to do so.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
there's "deadball" era, then there's AYFKM! era ... stats like this fall into the latter because of the former and can never be approached by the modern.
top dog
Footballguy
I voted back to back to back no hitters, but it is probably a realistic tie between that and 2,663 games played. Neither one will be done in today's modern game. Pitchers don't complete games very often and the likelyhood of being allowed 3 complete games in a row with pitch count monitoring is pretty slim. Unless Dusty Baker is the manager. And no one is getting 2,663 games without a day off with load monitoring anymore.
